Dogs fighting at home - Advice please!!

Nalz

Hi folks,

My girlfriend has a westie-terrier cross (3 years old) and a very submissive king charles cross (2 years old) living in her parents. They've been there for a year now along with another Terrier who was a rescue, not fantastically trained and 14 years old or so. All very similar in size.

The Westie cross has known the old house dog since she was a pup, visiting the home house several times, and they've played together and gotten along fine.

Earlier on in the year they'd have the odd fight, once every two months or so. Now however they can't be in the living room together - one of them will growl (mostly the older the dog would start it) and a row will kick off. This happens apparently on the landing in the house also, but they're fine elsewhere. I'm guessing this is a territorial thing.The third dog (who's very gentle, submissive, plays with the Westie a fair bit and acts like a young baby in your arms ) joins in the fights in a clueless manner, so unless we get to it quickly the next time it to escalate into something awful.

I've had them beside one another with a firm voice and praising them when they sat obeyed etc, but they wouldn't even look at one another and both were panting and shaking like crazy. The older one has since tried to start another row -only we grabbed all involved quite quickly before it escalated.

We don't know the eldest dogs history, she is quite old and she's not as trained as the other two but they've all gotten along in the past.

Any tips at all would be greatly appreciated, as right now I've decided to take the westie cross for a few days.

Thanks
Trilla

fits

Are they all bitches?

ShaShaBear

Is it possible the older bitch's health and/or mind is deteriorating and she is forgetful of who the westie is, or maybe she is in pain and warning her to stay away?

Nalz

Thanks for replying.

fits wrote: »

Are they all bitches?

Sorry yes they are

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Is it possible the older bitch's health and/or mind is deteriorating and she is forgetful of who the westie is, or maybe she is in pain and warning her to stay away?

It's possible. She was a tad over weight and we got her on this expensive obesity food and we saw a change in her personality, but in a possitive manner. More approachable to me for starters, a little lighter looking and a little bit more lively.

We did consider that the fact she was a little bit more sprucier and lively that it may have lead to more confidence and as a result her avenue to be the alpha dog and gain some territory. So in a way the opposite to what you suggest.

Neither of them have ever attacked or snapped at the King Charles cross.

ShaShaBear

Trilla wrote: »

Thanks for replying.



Sorry yes they are



It's possible. She was a tad over weight and we got her on this expensive obesity food and we saw a change in her personality, but in a possitive manner. More approachable to me for starters, a little lighter looking and a little bit more lively.

We did consider that the fact she was a little bit more sprucier and lively that it may have lead to more confidence and as a result her avenue to be the alpha dog and gain some territory. So in a way the opposite to what you suggest.

Neither of them have ever attacked or snapped at the King Charles cross.

Well since the alpha-dog nonsense is absolute rubbish, it really isn't
I'd take her to the vet for a checkup and make sure she isn't in pain.

Nalz

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Well since the alpha-dog nonsense is absolute rubbish

Wow really? Would love to know what triggered it with her.

We should bring her to the vet though I agree

ShaShaBear

Trilla wrote: »

Wow really? Would love to know what triggered it with her.

We should bring her to the vet though I agree

I would seriously say that at 14, nomatter how much her health improved, it might be a health-related issue. As well as that, if she was overweight, sluggish and ill she might not have had the energy to be a grumpy so and so with your westie, and the food changed that. It's not uncommon for dogs to fight every now and again, like any two family members. Just good that you're getting her checked in the vet, something as simple as arthritis at that age could be making her extra grumpy with the westie, who I'd guess is much louder and more playful and hyper than the KC!

Nalz

ShaShaBear wrote: »

It's not uncommon for dogs to fight every now and again, like any two family members

Cool thanks again for the replies. They're fighting non stop in the living room and on top of the stairs only which led us to believe it was territorial. In the kitchen, even when eating, they're fine!

Hopefully the vet will shed some light on it

Cheers again!

fatmammycat

I think it's very unfair for an elderly dog to need to 'protect' herself around two younger dogs and I would shield her as much as possible from the westie. I hold no truck at all with dominance or 'alpha' dog status as I think it's outdated poppycock ( also alpha denotes breeding pair, which this does not address, but bitches are renowned to be aggressive with each other). It could simply be resource guarding ( space), or an older dog who curls a lip to tell another dog to back off,and the other dog not repsonding correctly. Either way, the older dog needs to be protected and the youngers dogs need to learn to leave her alone.

Nalz

fatmammycat wrote: »

I think it's very unfair for an elderly dog to need to 'protect' herself around two younger dogs and I would shield her as much as possible from the westie. I hold no truck at all with dominance or 'alpha' dog status as I think it's outdated poppycock ( also alpha denotes breeding pair, which this does not address, but bitches are renowned to be aggressive with each other). It could simply be resource guarding ( space), or an older dog who curls a lip to tell another dog to back off,and the other dog not repsonding correctly. Either way, the older dog needs to be protected and the youngers dogs need to learn to leave her alone.

Cheers. Seems to be the older dog starting it a lot, and the youngest doesn't get involved until it kicks off (she's a little clueless, submissive and too much of a pet)

Pretzill

I find with my older dog (15) he just wants to be left alone but he doesn't instigate any arguments - he just gives out when pup and 3 yr old are playing too close to him. I used to think I had a 'top dog' a female who taught another pup female everything but I realise now that it's the personality of said pup now the 3 yr old that's trying to be dominant. She is bossy and has had skirmishes with my other dogs but it's just her way - I find extra exercise helps ground her and also.being careful around food - she's very possessive with treats and anything that drops on the floor is hers regardless of what the others think!

A call to a local behaviourist says she'll probably always be 'dominant' around food but I'm hopeful she'll mellow. Funny thing is shes protective of her own food but she respects the others and won't take from their bowl. But a fight will.ensue, though rare, out of nowhere. It' s just like she sees red - it's worrying when it happens so I can understand OP.

Nalz

Pretzill wrote: »

It' s just like she sees red - it's worrying when it happens so I can understand OP.

I'm worried for my gf's Mam as the eldest has shown signs that she wont back down, but the others would. I don't think her Mam can deal with it anymore.

Nalz

hi again folks,

Sorry to reopen this topic but something happened last night that we never saw before.

We took the two younger dogs for the last few days away from the family home (the westie and the rescued, submissive king charles cross). They got on very well as they always do...

We brought them both back last night and the old one left the room when the westie came in, they didn't even interact with one another. An hour into the night my gf's brother picked up the westie a bit quick and she let out the faintest of groans. This usually would trigger a grown or an attack from the old dog, but she wasn't in the room. What happened instead shocked us that the pampered, silly, submissive and delecate king charles cross ran across the room and jumped up to growl/attack the westie!

We were shocked it never happened before. They always played, ate, walked, slept and washed together. The Westie wouldn't go near the King charles then, went to her bed and kept her distance.

We assume it's the king charles cross picking up the bad habits from the older terrier, or she was protecting the gf's brother after the Westie groaned. She rarely steps out line, barking at the very very odd stranger. You can't punish her either she's so timid and submissive.

We brought home the westie and kept the king charles there in the family home for the night (she doesnt interact at all with the old terrier, its like neither of them see one another.

We're bringing them both for a walk later - touch would its all okay. Other than bringing the oldest one to the vets, any ideas as what else we could do? Or am I overreacting to the latest event?