how make puppy listen to child?

Mandzhalas

hi
we have golden retriever puppy in our family for last 4-5 weeks.He is generally being good boy,except he does not repect my daughter.
there is 3 of us in family:myself,wife and 4 year old daughter.I believe dog sees me as alfa member of the family.he absolutely obeys my every single command.
My wife is pretty much in same position ,dog sometimes needs second command to correct bad doing.
every time he does something wrong we command "OFF"

Puppy does not recognises my daugter as pack leader,he treats her as one of the litter mates.He never listens to her,play bites her all the time.he is quite rough with her to be honest.he would never ever do that to me
my daughter voice is not loud/firm enough him to obey it.command off is 100% ignored.
also he ignores commands sit,down,stay wich are normally treat rewarded

we trying to supervise them all the time,and every time he bites her, wige correct him with "OFF"

is there any methods for puppy to see my daughter as pack leader.its big isue to me,wich i would like to correct before he is 6 months.

Gran Hermano

I'd a dog that always saw my mate as the Alfa guy
Until he changed his car and is now the BMW guy.
Soon as he hears the car on the drive he knows it's likely a visitor with treats.


Pack leader/alpha and such is outdated thinking.

http://www.dogstardaily.com/storefront/after-you-get-your-puppy

ShaShaBear

Your puppy does not see you as alpha, or any of that nonsense.

He sees your four year old as a smaller, more reachable target for play time and thus commences play like all other puppies do.

Try having your daughter make a loud, high-pitched yelping noise the next time he does it, and then promptly have her disengage from him and leave the room. Give it a minute or two where he is totally being ignored, and then have her come back in and make NO fuss of him. Eventually he will learn the same way he would learn from REAL littermates. Yelping in pain means I've gone too far and the playing stops.

tk123

If you haven't enrolled in puppy classes I'd recommend them as you're daughter will be able to join in with training and learn how fun it can be. There was loads of kids at our classes and they told them that if the pup was jumping up etc they should stand still like a tree and call for their mum or dad. Being honest your pup is doing what pups do - don't expect it to do what you ask every time and don't expect it to be impeccably behaved from day one because it's a baby! My pup doesn't play bite or jump up on is thankfully because her big brother has thought her not to - they're both golden retrievers btw.

Just reading your post again - you correct him with 'off' but what's the consequence when he's bold? I ask because it reminded me of a doggy social hour a few weeks ago when a 1 year old lab jumped up and nipped my hand (which hurt a bit) his owner just said 'OFF!!' dog ignored her and continued until I folded my arms and turned away. Often they just want a reaction so tell him 'off' once and if he does it again give him a time out out of the room on his own for a few seconds, then back in like nothing happened. If he does it again take him out again - once you repeat it a few times he'll get the message! Example that if my pup is annoying my 4 year old dog he'll always ignore her first so turn away and won't engage with her until she calms down and she usually gets the message.

Jazbee

Hi op,
When we got our pup she nipped the kids a lot (all pups do). Got great advice here from the others.
We said 'ouch' when she nipped, if she nipped again straight away we said 'enough' and put her into time out for 30 seconds in her crate. Obviously you can pick your own words, but say them calmly. We taught our older two kids to do this, and for the youngest we did it for him. It worked within a week.
Good luck!

alroley

"alpha" "pack leader" ugh really?

As said above, that's really really outdated, same goes for "dominance"

http://www.leecharleskelley.com/whoarewe/packleaderorpredator.html

wolfpawnat

When the pup nips, as others have said, get your daughter to yelp and turn away and not pay attention to the puppy. It makes the pup realise that it is hurting and it is not a rewarded behaviour. Attention is the ultimate reward to dogs, if you and your child show no attention, it makes the pup want to achieve your attention. At that age the pup is not being malicious, it is just trying to play like it did with its siblings, it needs to learn that is not how to act around humans.

Can I ask (slightly OT) why people become offensive and harsh when people mention outdated info as opposed to just explaining calmly it is outdated and that there is new more relevant data? It puts people off asking for help here.

ShaShaBear

wolfpawnat wrote: »

When the pup nips, as others have said, get your daughter to yelp and turn away and not pay attention to the puppy. It makes the pup realise that it is hurting and it is not a rewarded behaviour. Attention is the ultimate reward to dogs, if you and your child show no attention, it makes the pup want to achieve your attention. At that age the pup is not being malicious, it is just trying to play like it did with its siblings, it needs to learn that is not how to act around humans.

Can I ask (slightly OT) why people become offensive and harsh when people mention outdated info as opposed to just explaining calmly it is outdated and that there is new more relevant data? It puts people off asking for help here.

Because it means they didnt do sufficient research before getting the pup. A quick Google search would put them right on the theory. It also suggests that they might be using outdated and less savoury training methods.

wolfpawnat

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Because it means they didnt do sufficient research before getting the pup. A quick Google search would put them right on the theory. It also suggests that they might be using outdated and less savoury training methods.

I rather they spent time seeing if they were getting a dog suitable to their needs. I know dealing with training is very important, but explaining calming is better than jumping down their throats.

tk123

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I rather they spent time seeing if they were getting a dog suitable to their needs. I know dealing with training is very important, but explaining calming is better than jumping down their throats.

Report the posts if you have a problem with them?

I'd agree with ShaShaBear tbh. Any book you'll read which imo is part of research will cover the basics. As will puppy classes which again are part of the research/planning into getting a dog even if you already know how to train because the socialization aspect of a class is great for a young pup...and you've guessed it planning socialisation would be part of research.

ShaShaBear

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I rather they spent time seeing if they were getting a dog suitable to their needs. I know dealing with training is very important, but explaining calming is better than jumping down their throats.

The dog won't be suitable to their needs if they can't train it properly.

The OP teaching their daughter how to be alpha over a dog is never going to end well. If they had come here asking if alpha training was the right approach for their puppy, they would have gotten a much calmer correcting response. Instead, they made it clear they assume it to be correct, and anyone who has seen how many bad bites Cesar Milan has gotten from his "successfull" dominance training would know how badly this entire notion could end up.

anniehoo

As already mentioned wolfpawnat, if you have an issue with any post please do report it. It's not always possible for the Mods to read every thread so we may miss some comments that are posted in the wrong tone unless we see a reported post about it.

On that note alroley, your response could definitely have been written in a much less patronising way. Take note.

Thanks

DBB

I know I always do a huge internal sigh when I see people still talking about dominance, alpha leaders etc, but it is never constructive for me to launch an attack on the person, especially if there's any doubt as to whether they know any different.
The bottom line is, Cesar Milan and his unqualified ilk still have a powerful grip on what people think they know about dog behaviour.... He's been beamed into millions of front rooms for years now, and as people tend to assume that if it's on the telly, it must be okay, we need to remember that people assume that Cesar Milan and co must be the dog's pyjamas. Also, any Google search will throw up many websites and blogs that still spout the old stuff... How are owners meant to know it's all disproved?
Science, research and evidence have shown the dominance model, as an explanation for why dogs misbehave or ignore their owners (whatever their age), is plain gibberish... But although this message is most definitely getting out there, it hasn't reached enough ears yet. So as owners who have "seen the light", (remembering that pretty much all well known positive trainers once used the dominance approach too.... The difference between them and Cesar and co is that they sat up and took notice of the research), it is our job to help people who may not have had the opportunity to learn about modern, ethical, evidence-based dog training, and to link them to useful websites, or explain it all to them... Nicely! Jumping down people's throats, or belittling them, will teach them nothing.
Remember, we're into positive reinforcement.... That goes for humans as well as dogs!