Time to ban rickshaws

Thomas D

The city is overrun with these things at night. Completely unlicensed and dangerous. They are taking over footpaths which are for pedestrians.
I regularly witness aggro with the drivers and drunk people.

Firewalkwithme

Maybe we should ban drunk people?

Thomas D

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

Maybe we should ban drunk people?

They already are.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0004.html#sec4

Ole Rodrigo

Whats wrong with them ? Theres only a problem when:

a) Cars drive too fast
b) People are too intoxicated.

Neither are the fault of the rickshaw operator. How is something completely unlicensed? Is there a partially licensed alternative?

HomelessMidge

ror_74 wrote: »

Whats wrong with them ? Theres only a problem when:

a) Cars drive too fast
b) People are too intoxicated.

Neither are the fault of the rickshaw operator. How is something completely unlicensed? Is there a partially licensed alternative?

Horse and carriage are licensed. Why not have these guys licensed?

Thomas D

ror_74 wrote: »

Whats wrong with them ? Theres only a problem when:

a) Cars drive too fast
b) People are too intoxicated.

Neither are the fault of the rickshaw operator. How is something completely unlicensed? Is there a partially licensed alternative?

There is no licensing. Hence they are completely unlicensed.

alastair

Thomas D wrote: »

There is no licensing. Hence they are completely unlicensed.

Time to outlaw bicycles too, so.

wyndham

ror_74 wrote: »

Whats wrong with them ?

- Many of them are unlit and pose a danger to pedestrians and other road users.
The bikes undergo no safety testing.

- They are uninsured for the carriage of people.

- They use pedestrianised streets with impunity at speed.

- There are no background checks on the drivers/pedallers as exist with other public service drivers.

- They don't pay tax/contribute .

- They are just a general nuisance to other road users.

ror_74

ror_74 wrote: »

Whats wrong with them ? Theres only a problem when:

a) Cars drive too fast
b) People are too intoxicated.

Neither are the fault of the rickshaw operator. How is something completely unlicensed? Is there a partially licensed alternative?

Wrong way up one way streets, don't stop at red lights, on footpaths, blocking streets when waiting for people, overloading, no lights on them, no mirrors either.

neckedit

wyndham wrote: »

- Many of them are unlit and pose a danger to pedestrians and other road users.
The bikes undergo no safety testing.

- They are uninsured for the carriage of people.

- They use pedestrianised streets with impunity at speed.

- There are no background checks on the drivers/pedallers as exist with other public service drivers.

- They don't pay tax/contribute .

- They are just a general nuisance to other road users.

You Could say the same of cyclists....... Bar the passenger thing.....

hfallada

neckedit wrote: »

You Could say the same of cyclists....... Bar the passenger thing.....

If you want to split hairs the same can be said about pedestrians. You can't drive a taxi without a background check( they don't really care if you have committed fairly serious crimes through) why should you be allowed to drive a rickshaw?

Ole Rodrigo

The only problem with vehicles in the city centre is motor traffic. Imagine a reduction of 50 %, and whats left driving no faster than 35 kmph - then all the quibbles you have with pedestrians, cyclists and rickshaws vanish. And it becomes a nicer place to be.

Victor

Ban, no. Regulate and enforce standards, yes.

John_Rambo

Thomas D wrote: »

The city is overrun with these things at night

It's not.

Don't ever go to an Asian city. You'd have a complete panic attack.

Thomas D

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's not.

Don't ever go to an Asian city. You'd have a complete panic attack.

Have you been out recently. Numbers have tripled over christmas. I've no desire to experience third world living in Ireland.

John_Rambo

Thomas D wrote: »

Have you been out recently

Yes.

Thomas D wrote: »

I've no desire to experience third world living in Ireland.

Are you under the impression that all Asian cities are third world? If you think rickshaws mean third world living you're deluded.

Thomas D

John_Rambo wrote: »

Yes.



Are you under the impression that all Asian cities are third world? If you think rickshaws mean third world living you're deluded.

Those with an abundance of cycle rickshaws are piss poor. I doubt you'll see many I'm Tokyo.

alastair

Thomas D wrote: »

Have you been out recently. Numbers have tripled over christmas. I've no desire to experience third world living in Ireland.

But I thought you were an advocate of letting the free market decide these kinds of things? If there's a demand for cycle rickshaws in Dublin, presumably there's a greater demand at Xmas party season. I don't think the operators are likely to be swayed by your worries about 'third world living' on the back of a few dozen rickshaws in the city though, possibly because it's bonkers? Tokyo seems to have recently revived the traditional rickshaw as a tourist trap too, so maybe they're on the cusp of 'third world living' themselves.

Cycle rickshaws should obviously be obliged to follow the same laws as any other cyclist (lights at night, keep off footpaths, obey rules of road), but beyond that, I can't see any real objection to them.

Thomas D

alastair wrote: »

But I thought you were an advocate of letting the free market decide these kinds of things? If there's a demand for cycle rickshaws in Dublin, presumably there's a greater demand at Xmas party season. I don't think the operators are likely to be swayed by your worries about 'third world living' on the back of a few dozen rickshaws in the city though, possibly because it's bonkers? Tokyo seems to have recently revived the traditional rickshaw as a tourist trap too, so maybe they're on the cusp of 'third world living' themselves.

Cycle rickshaws should obviously be obliged to follow the same laws as any other cyclist (lights at night, keep off footpaths, obey rules of road), but beyond that, I can't see any real objection to them.

I'm not an advocate for laissez faire capitalism without any regulation. I wouldn't put a limit on the numbers willing to operate once they are licensed, policed and are paying the appropriate income taxes.

alastair

Thomas D wrote: »

I'm not an advocate for laissez faire capitalism without any regulation. I wouldn't put a limit on the numbers willing to operate once they are licensed, policed and are paying the appropriate income taxes.

Who's to say they're not paying the appropriate income taxes? You could make exactly the same claim for regular taxi drivers.

Mr Simpson

Victor wrote: »

Ban, no. Regulate and enforce standards, yes.

It's time for zero tolerance on them imo. The absolute ridiculousness of some of them is incredible.

neris

Time for the rickshaw owners to set up association. Irish Rickshaw Association

Muahahaha

Report on radio about rickshaws this morning. DCC are bringing in by-laws to regulate them but there was no real detail. Report said they are unlicensed and uninsured. They spoke to a number of customers, a couple who said they nearly fell out of one. Another said their driver tried to charge €30 for a journey.

I came across a few of them on the lower end of Grafton St cycling on the footpath outside Lush. Pretty dangerous to be mixing these things with pedestrians imo and its not nice having to dodge them as they expect you to do. Someone who is very drunk is gonna get hit some night and theyll have no comeback.

seamus

In my experience these things don't move quickly enough to pose a danger to anyone. If they did hit someone, then that someone will fall on their arse, at worst break an arm. No big deal, really. No more dangerous than people out for a lunchtime run along the streets.

There's a good argument for some level of regulation though. They provide a tourism function, so it's in the city's interests to ensure that the operators are at least tracked and accountable in the event that someone does get injured or ripped off.

Muahahaha

seamus wrote: »

In my experience these things don't move quickly enough to pose a danger to anyone. If they did hit someone, then that someone will fall on their arse, at worst break an arm. No big deal, really. No more dangerous than people out for a lunchtime run along the streets.

.

Yeah but what if they break an arm or a leg? Then the person is out of work for a number of weeks. The rickshaws are uninsured so itll be the person who is hit who ends up with the financial penalty, not the rickshaw driver who caused it. Also a taxi driver mentioned to me a while back about a girl falling out of one and smashing her teeth on the ground and the driver didnt want to know. Not sure if its true but again without insurance the customer has little or no comeback.

Also I disagree on their speed, when fully loaded with three passengers in the back and a run down hill on Grafton St if you got hit by one youd defintely know it. Between the driver and 3 passengers and the rickshaw itself youre probably talking about getting hit by 350 kilos of force, it would not be nice.

Im not against them at all but theres no way they should be permitted to use footpaths. With lots of drunks staggering about pavements its just asking for trouble. The drivers dont make it easy either, its like they expect you to see them and get out of their way so they can maintain their speed.

OldGoat

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail2014052700109#N27

Minister of Transport - 2014
"Rickshaws are technically classified as bicycles for the purposes of road traffic legislation and must therefore comply with legislation insofar as it applies to bicycles. The insurance provisions of the Road Traffic Acts apply to mechanically propelled vehicles only. Therefore there is no legal requirement under the legislation for rickshaws to be insured."

Don't most of the rickshaws have battery powered assists and does that still mean they are now "mechanically propelled"? I can't find a clear definition of "mechanically propelled" in the RTA yet.

BeerNut

OldGoat wrote: »

Don't most of the rickshaws have battery powered assists and does that still mean they are now "mechanically propelled"? I can't find a clear definition of "mechanically propelled" in the RTA yet.

As I understand it, if the power only kicks in when the user is pedalling, and stops when they stop, then it is not mechanically propelled.

seamus

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah but what if they break an arm or a leg? Then the person is out of work for a number of weeks. The rickshaws are uninsured so itll be the person who is hit who ends up with the financial penalty, not the rickshaw driver who caused it. Also a taxi driver mentioned to me a while back about a girl falling out of one and smashing her teeth on the ground and the driver didnt want to know.

There's something of a overlap between, "things which are avoidable and change your life" and "sh1t that happens". And it's hard within that overlap to draw a line that decides when someone should and shouldn't carry 3rd party insurance.

However these guys are basically running a business, so I would tend to take the view that they should have appropriate 3rd party liability insurance as any other business should.

If they're appropriately regulated, then at least an injured party can identify and sue the rickshaw operator regardless of whether they're insured.

Im not against them at all but theres no way they should be permitted to use footpaths. With lots of drunks staggering about pavements its just asking for trouble. The drivers dont make it easy either, its like they expect you to see them and get out of their way so they can maintain their speed.

They're not permitted on footpaths, that's purely down to Gardai not giving a crap and ignoring them. DCC creating bye-laws won't suddenly make the Gardai enforce the law.
I completely agree that they should forced onto the road and required to be well lit up. That's the law as it stands, but the Gardai aren't interested in enforcing it.

OldGoat wrote: »

Don't most of the rickshaws have battery powered assists and does that still mean they are now "mechanically propelled"? I can't find a clear definition of "mechanically propelled" in the RTA yet.

Pedal assisted bikes don't qualify as normal vehicles provided that the assist only works while the bike is being pedalled and it cuts out at 25km/h.

Muahahaha

seamus wrote: »

There's something of a overlap between, "things which are avoidable and change your life" and "sh1t that happens". And it's hard within that overlap to draw a line that decides when someone should and shouldn't carry 3rd party insurance.

However these guys are basically running a business, so I would tend to take the view that they should have appropriate 3rd party liability insurance as any other business should.

No doubt they should have insurance but the report on radio this morning was saying they dont because they operate in a legal grey area. Most of the drivers are Brazilian students out to earn a few quid at the weekends so if an accident does happen then the victim is going to have a hard time getting any compensation for medical costs out of a penniless student.

My guess too is that insurance companies would run a mile from insuring them. No seatbelts and an open carriage that is easily fallen out could well cost an insurance company a lot more than its worth.

I do agree with you re: the Gardai not enforcing it, as I said Ive no problem with them on the roads (I bet the taximen do though!) but they really shouldnt be on footpaths. Right now with the Luas works they can be seen on pavements all over the place and as I mentioned before the way many of them drive they expect you to see them and hop out of their way. It doesnt make for a nice environment at night in the city centre, youre supposed to be relatively safe on a footpath but with dozens of these things hurtling past it doesnt feel that way.

Anyway heres hoping the by-laws clear up the insurance/regulation grey area and the Gardai get enforcing because at this stage its well needed imo

Lovely Bloke

if they are the same as bikes they shouldn't be on footpaths

I hate the things

Cienciano

Their function at the moment from what I can see is to rip off tourists and drunk people. If they can't regulate them, ban them. They don't exactly provide a valuable service to the city.