Unchanging old fashioned ideas about cat neutering/spaying

Pumpkinseeds

Since we've been fostering Molly we've advertised her locally to try to find her a new home. We had 3 people phone us about her and 2 of them pretended to want her as an indoor cat. When they phoned they seemed suprised that they couldn't just come to the house and take her with them. Fostering is new to us but we'll be making sure that a home check and follow up is done and she won't be signed over until the follow up is done.

When I ask people if they're looking for an indoor or outdoor cat they say indoors. When you explain that a home check will be carried out they then admit that they're looking for an outdoor cat. Why is it that in this day and age so many rural dwellers think it's ok to put an unspayed female kitten outdoors?

One person actually admitted to me that they wouldn't take a female because they'd have to neuter her. What the actual Hell is wrong with people? I don't even know why they bothered phoning about her if they didn't want a female. I suppose they were just chancing there arm that she'd just be handed over. There's so many rescue ferals looking for outdoor homes and it seems to me that if people don't wise up and change their attitude it'll never change.

We wouldn't let her go anywhere at this point until late January.

boomerang

It's very hard to rehome kittens responsibly (ie neutered, therefore requiring a donation - and with a homecheck.) Kittens are too easy to come by and cost nothing. It's like trying to sell coal to Newcastle. But persevere, because the good homes are out there - just takes a bit of time to find them. If you want me to put her on our page just let me know.

I tend to downplay the homecheck a lot, and tell people that we just like to pop our to them beforehand to make sure they are not on a busy road. Once you get there, people are happy to chat.

We have access to reasonably low-cost neutering in Limerick and our vets will safely spay once the kitten is healthy and over a kilo. If you want to spay her before rehoming just let me know. If you don't have the help of a rescue we could go halves on the cost. I could help with microchipping if you like.

Pumpkinseeds

boomerang wrote: »

It's very hard to rehome kittens responsibly (ie neutered, therefore requiring a donation - and with a homecheck.) Kittens are too easy to come by and cost nothing. It's like trying to sell coal to Newcastle. But persevere, because the good homes are out there - just takes a bit of time to find them. If you want me to put her on our page just let me know.

I tend to downplay the homecheck a lot, and tell people that we just like to pop our to them beforehand to make sure they are not on a busy road. Once you get there, people are happy to chat.

We have access to reasonably low-cost neutering in Limerick and our vets will safely spay once the kitten is healthy and over a kilo. If you want to spay her before rehoming just let me know. If you don't have the help of a rescue we could go halves on the cost. I could help with microchipping if you like.

Thanks for that. We've had her first vaccinations done and she's getting the second lot next week. We have a rescue that would take her but I'd rather keep her with us than have her shut in with other cats. We can give her more attention. We feel responsible for her since my husband brought her home, so we wouldn't ask the rescue to pay for vaccination and spaying although they have offered.

I usually down play the home check, the problem is people phone and say 'is the kitten still available? I'll take her' Then there was the one that rang to ask about her as they couldn't decide if they wanted a kitten or a small dog. I wouldn't let her go to anyone who wasn't 100% sure that they wanted a kitten. She'll have a place with us for as long as she needs it anyway. I was hoping to foster kittens that find life at a rescue very stressful, once we've found a home for Molly. Our own cats are not too bad with females, Poppy bosses the boys around. They wouldn't accept another adult cat.

It's just that I spend a lot of time with her playing and getting to know her and the thought of someone just dumping her outdoors horrifies me. She's only a little thing, too small to survive on her own.

mymo

This is the reason I try not to take in every kitten I'm offered.
So many people think they can take a tiny kitten and just leave it off outside and it will be fine.
I lived by a family that only got male cats, never neutered, because "they can't have kittens and they only live about 3 or 4 years" another family just kept handing out kittens to local kids and anyone who asked, that's the ones that lived, most litters died, sick or inbred.
It made me so mad, I used to get very upset, now I help where I can, try to educate anyone willing to listen about the benefits of spaying/neutering, and show off my lot of shiny coated, happy, lap cats.

taytobreath

unfortunately people will never change, cats no matter how much we love them will be always be the 2nd pets as far as dogs are concerned, to be honest if you are fostering cats you need to get them neutered, inoculated and wormed to re-home them. i've done a few kittens , but it was with the expense and experience of an animal charity. Saving their little lives as you know is the most important aspect of it.

the animal charity i volunteered for put advertisements on our local paper and the kittens got good homes, but the people that got them had the kittens neutered and wormed and flea free kittens and the charity asked for a donation but didn't necessarily receive one.
If your gonna foster a cat or kitten i'm afraid the onus is on you to get them neutered dewormed and deflea'd before you adopt because the owner will not want to incur the expense.

amdublin

We have our cat 4 years now and he means the world to us.

Got him from fostering and brought him to be neutered etc (he is an indoor/outdoor cat)

But seriously some of the questions the lady who was minding them asked were seriously way ott.
Did we have a garden?
Did we live in an apartment? (after saying yes have garden)
Did we own our own place?!!!!!!!!!!!
Did we have children?!!!!!
Were we planning children?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus christ. I was so mad.

DBB

amdublin wrote: »

But seriously some of the questions the lady who was minding them asked were seriously way ott.
Did we have a garden?
Did we live in an apartment? (after saying yes have garden)
Did we own our own place?!!!!!!!!!!!
Did we have children?!!!!!
Were we planning children?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus christ. I was so mad.

Can you not see why you'd be asked this stuff, no?
If you have a garden, then the rescue need to check it's safe and secure, and may select a cat for you based on the cat's preference for outdoor vs indoor space.
If you live in an apartment, that limits the cats that are suitable for you to cats that prefer to live indoors. If an outdoor cat was rehomed to an apartment, chances are this now unhappy cat would have to be returned.
If you don't own your own place, then the rescue needs the landlord/management company's assent that pets are allowed. Otherwise you or the cat could be evicted.
If you have children, or if you plan to have children, then the rescue can hardly place a fearful, or child-fearful cat with you. Otherwise the cat will end up coming back.
So you see, they're not being nosey, these are all standard things that rescues need to know. They're trying to select the right cat for the right person, and trying to minimise the chances that the cat will have to be returned, all of them situations under which so many pets are surrendered in the first place.

amdublin

So if I have an unexpected pregnancy are you going to come take my cat away from e?
If I sell my house what happens?
If I move from aptmt to house are you going to do a cat swop??

Life changes.
can you see how intrusive and useless (as per my examples) those questions are.

much better to describe the cat and see if will suit.
e.g. smokey is a very nervous cat and does not like traffic. "Oh well we live beside a busy road so that wont work"
Jimjy is a playful kitten who loves children "great we have three"

DBB

Yes, I do realise all of that. Nothing is failsafe, but it would be utterly remiss of a rescue not to minimise the chances of the home failing in the future. If these questions weren't asked, I can absolutely assure you that the return rate of cats and dogs is enormous... We know this for a fact, and we also know that by minimising the risks by asking the right questions, the return rate reduces substantially. You also have to remember that people aren't always truthful, and the rescue needs to protect their animals from that. All of this is why rescues adopted the questionnaire and home check approach over the past couple of decades, because it is a model that has proven itself to work well.
With all due respect, it should never, ever be left to the adopter to pick out a pet that they take a fancy to, without a lot of guidance, and the final decision being made by the rescue. To allow people to choose a pet based on a phone call, or based on looking at a pile of photos, or even real life animals in a sanctuary setting, has also been proven to be a risky model, with huge failure rates.
I don't consider the questions you were asked to be out-of-context intrusive, and having rehomed, I don't know, maybe 500 dogs, I've never had one adopter say they felt intruded upon. On the contrary, people see the need, and indeed appreciate the trouble that the rescue is taking not to land an unsuitable pet on them.
If people want to take offense at me reducing my risks, that's fine, let them move along to another rescue group who takes a slapdash approach. The best of luck to them... They just might need it. At least the increased likelihood of failure isn't sitting at my door then.

amdublin

Look I'm in agreement with you that I want things to work out and I want the pet to be happy and the new owners to be happy.
But as you said yourself people can lie.

At the end of the day my personal experience was that I was completely offended that someone asked about my future family plans (amongst other extremely personal questions).

efb

Luckily I wasn't but I adopted from a family friend who loves animals. I have him neutered and wormed and he free to come and go as he pleases.

If I got the 4th degree as above I would have politely declined

Pumpkinseeds

I can appreciate that some questions would seem very intrusive, tbh I wouldn't ask someone about their future family plans. Home checks are vitally important though as they will immediately weed out anyone who is looking for a pet to use for puppy mills or dog baiting.

A few years ago my parents had neighbours who had 2 female cats, one of whom they didn't bother to spay and she had several litters. My parents couldn't stand to see it happening to the cat so they got her spayed and found homes for the kittens. They asked me if I'd handle phone call inquiries about the kittens and I did. A woman from an area of Limerick that I'd feel more comfortable taking animals out of than putting them into, rang to inquire about getting one.

Long story short, she wanted to collect the kitten, leave it in a car at Shannon airport while she worked an 8 hour shift, then when she got home she was going to leave the kitten in an enclosed porch over night, so she could give it to her daughter the next day as a birthday present. She didn't get a kitten from us, but I bet she got one somewhere.

The Sweeper

amdublin wrote: »

Were we planning children?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus christ. I was so mad.

I'd ask you that. I know it's deeply personal and obnoxious, but I'd ask you if I was fostering a kitten and you wanted to take it. Sorry.

This is why I'd ask you:

First up, I need to know if you've ever heard of toxoplasmosis, and if you properly understand the risk to you and your child from cats and cat litter during your pregnancy. If you get pregnant are you going to surrender the cat, or are you going to relocate it to being an outside-only cat?

Then I need to know that you've given some thought to how you'd integrate a baby and a cat. I could help you with the integration. I could give you the best practice approach to ensuring you had a harmonious household. But I need to know you've thought about it.

I also need to see how you feel about cats and babies. Are a believer of old wives tales that cats will try to sleep on the baby and may smother them? Are you likely to get six months into having your new baby, and then change the situation for your cat? Will you suddenly make your cat outdoor-only because your baby is snuffling? Will you decide you can't bear the dirt and germs of the cat because you dropped your baby's soother on the floor one day and when you picked it up there was cat hair stuck to the teat of it?

Are you prepared for the potential negative response from the cat at the introduction of a new baby? What's going to happen if, in the middle of the upheaval and sleep deprivation of being a new parent, your cat suddenly starts peeing on the sofa and the curtains and behind the TV and so on?

If nothing else, I'd ask because I want you to know if anything like this happens, your first step needs to be to call me, not try dealing with it yourself.

So yes, I know it's an obnoxious question, but I'd ask it anyway. (And anything that sounds specific above, it's because it is specific and I've seen cats surrendered for all of the above reasons and more.)

amdublin

The Sweeper wrote: »

I'd ask you that. I know it's deeply personal and obnoxious, but I'd ask you if I was fostering a kitten and you wanted to take it. Sorry.

This is why I'd ask you:

First up, I need to know if you've ever heard of toxoplasmosis, and if you properly understand the risk to you and your child from cats and cat litter during your pregnancy. If you get pregnant are you going to surrender the cat, or are you going to relocate it to being an outside-only cat?

Then I need to know that you've given some thought to how you'd integrate a baby and a cat. I could help you with the integration. I could give you the best practice approach to ensuring you had a harmonious household. But I need to know you've thought about it.

I also need to see how you feel about cats and babies. Are a believer of old wives tales that cats will try to sleep on the baby and may smother them? Are you likely to get six months into having your new baby, and then change the situation for your cat? Will you suddenly make your cat outdoor-only because your baby is snuffling? Will you decide you can't bear the dirt and germs of the cat because you dropped your baby's soother on the floor one day and when you picked it up there was cat hair stuck to the teat of it?

Are you prepared for the potential negative response from the cat at the introduction of a new baby? What's going to happen if, in the middle of the upheaval and sleep deprivation of being a new parent, your cat suddenly starts peeing on the sofa and the curtains and behind the TV and so on?

If nothing else, I'd ask because I want you to know if anything like this happens, your first step needs to be to call me, not try dealing with it yourself.

So yes, I know it's an obnoxious question, but I'd ask it anyway. (And anything that sounds specific above, it's because it is specific and I've seen cats surrendered for all of the above reasons and more.)

I am sorry this is complete bullsh1t.

I am an adult not a six year old.

If you are happy to give me the kitten it is not your business to advise me on toxaplasmosis and how to raise my baby and raise my cat.

anniehoo

amdublin wrote: »

I am sorry this is complete bullsh1t.

If I could "thank" TheSweepers post multiple times I would.

wrote:

I am an adult not a six year old
If you are happy to give me the kitten it is not your business to advise me on toxaplasmosis and how to raise my baby and raise my cat.

It is their business though. I personally would fail on practically every level of owning a dog if I went to a rescue now.

*Out of the house > 5hrs per day (yes)
*Can I commit to daycare/walker daily (no)
*Do I have a garden or can commit to daily walks (no)
*Am I planning for children (hoping for yes, planning for no)
*Can I pay for boarding when I go on holidays (no)
*Can I handle a dog that's not good with other animals (no)

The check list goes on.

This is ONLY the tip of the iceberg amdublin and this is my own profile. You have no idea how much I want another dog (previous dog was family owned). It is perfectly reasonable to be asked these questions without getting defensive. I would fail miserably and I'm ok with that. This is why I foster.

I'm not at all ready for a fulltime dog.

Any good rescue wants the best for their animals.They spend so much time,effort and money(with miniscule funding) hoping they rehome their animals to the right homes, so they never see them again.Never seeing them again hopefully means a successful adoption.

As for Toxoplasmosis. You have no idea the amount of cat owners, both experienced and not who literally freak out about this. I can guarantee you most people don't understand that owning a cat does not automatically equal contracting Toxo and therefore abortion/birth defects.Source as an example.

wrote:

Generally if a woman has been infected with Toxoplasma before becoming pregnant, the infant will be protected because the mother is immune.

It's not even routinely tested for in Ireland. I guarantee you there's plenty of animal lovers will freak out about this once "they're pregnant".

It may feel like an interrogation on your personal life but they really are only doing it to maximise the chances that this particular animal is going to the best home possible and they don't see the same animal 6months later (even worse off behaviorally and medically) either back with them or in some random Pound.

DBB

amdublin wrote: »

I am sorry this is complete bullsh1t.

I am an adult not a six year old.

If you are happy to give me the kitten it is not your business to advise me on toxaplasmosis and how to raise my baby and raise my cat.

There are plenty of rescues who don't go to much trouble to minimise their risks. The same places don't give the adopters much in the way of after-care, often after placing an unsuitable pet with them because of a lack of caring, or lack of information exchange at the pre-adoption stage.
So, if the questions upset you, there are many rescues you can deal with who won't bother asking you such questions. Don't expect much from them either should the poop hit the fan though.
There are more than enough people who welcome the questions, and the security that this level of care brings to them. Rescues who minimise their risks are not going to fall apart because some people take such dreadful offense at some lifestyle and "what if" questions.

The Sweeper

amdublin wrote: »

If you are happy to give me the kitten it is not your business to advise me on toxaplasmosis and how to raise my baby and raise my cat.

The whole point is I'm not happy to give you a kitten if I think you're either going to toss it out in 12 months or give it back to me in 12 months. And it's absolutely my business to advise you because I know what I'm doing, and if it's outside my comfort zone I'll refer you on to someone else who knows what they're doing in that area.

If I foster it's hard work and if I rehome it's to a forever home. If it fails the pet comes back to me.

If I put so much time and effort into this, why would I be arsed dealing with you if you can't even be bothered answering highly relevant questions?

You know, if I asked you your parenting plans and you said you hadn't thought about it but I felt you were open to assistance and direction to good resources, that wouldn't be a problem. I'm not anti child. I just don't want the cat back because something crops up you weren't willing to deal with.

boomerang

The reality of rehoming in the cat world is, everyone wants a kitten, the younger the better. Once a kitten gets to even 12-14wks it has lost appeal and is quickly getting harder and harder to rehome. It's like working against an hour glass timer. You have no idea at all how difficult it is for cat rescues to rehome even kittens that are returned to them, not to mind if they are now adult. At that point, the cat could be waiting 12 or 18 months or more to find another home.

So if a few basic questions to best match you with kittens or a cat are too intrusive for you, I'm moving right on. I'm looking for someone who is giving the adoption some thought so I'm not trying to rehome their now adult cat a year down the road.

Our kittens have different strengths depending on the foster home - some are reared with kids, some with dogs, some show a strong preference for access to outdoors, some will do well indoors-only, some will trigger allergies, some are too quick with claws/teeth in play to suit a home with kids. And all our kittens are neutered, microchipped, vaccinated etc. etc. etc. before rehoming. Do you imagine then we'd hand one over willy nilly?

You honestly have no idea.

boomerang

amdublin wrote: »

We have our cat 4 years now and he means the world to us.

But seriously some of the questions the lady who was minding them asked were seriously way ott.
Did we have a garden?
Did we live in an apartment? (after saying yes have garden)
Did we own our own place?!!!!!!!!!!!
Did we have children?!!!!!
Were we planning children?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus christ. I was so mad.

So tell me, if you had to rehome your cat now for some unforeseen reason, you wouldn't be looking for this basic info on where he's going, no?

rannerap

The baby question is fair game I think. The amount of cats that get given away or worse because of a baby arriving on the scene is shocking. I don't have any kids yet and I know I will in the future. I thought of this when adopting my cats and I don't ever plan to give them away when I get pregnant. But the amount of people who don't think ahead makes the question a very reasonable one. They just think how nice it would be to have a pet right now and not about about the future of that pet and how long of a commitment it really is

Pumpkinseeds

I just had a lady phone me a few minutes ago to ask about Molly. I told her that we won't be letting her go until January now as it's too close to Christmas. Her response was 'are you sure, cause I can come and get her today? I'm very particular about the kind of home she goes to and I won't be letting her go anywhere that I'm not 100% certain about.

The thing is, you can never guarantee that any home is going to be a permanent home. Peoples circumstances change. I don't mean to be rude, but frankly I think it is too much to be asking how people would feel about a soother falling on the floor or if someone intends to have a child. Most pregnancies aren't planned. Tbh, it would put me off if I was lectured about toxoplamosis and potential future pregnancies.

People who want to adopt a cat will tell you whatever they think that you want to hear. I will do a follow up visit 2 or 3 weeks after she's adopted and she won't be signed over to the adopter until that visit is done and I'm satisfied that she's happy and safe. We've paid for her 1st vaccination and we'll pay for the 2nd vaccinations when she has them on Wednesday. Because my husband brought her home we are also happy to pay for her to be spayed.

All you can do is your best and make it clear to the adopter that if it doesn't work out for whatever reason that they can bring her back to us.

amdublin

Sarannewrap wrote: »

The baby question is fair game I think. The amount of cats that get given away or worse because of a baby arriving on the scene is shocking. I don't have any kids yet and I know I will in the future. I thought of this when adopting my cats and I don't ever plan to give them away when I get pregnant. But the amount of people who don't think ahead makes the question a very reasonable one. They just think how nice it would be to have a pet right now and not about about the future of that pet and how long of a commitment it really is

I really truly think it is an inappropriate question to ask. And god forbid the next person you ask ends up in floods of tears telling you how their ivf has not been successful after five times of trying. You are not social workers, it is taking it too far asking personal questions like that.

Btw we were open to a cat or a kitten. We just wanted a cat who liked us and was suited to us and that we liked him/her and we were suited to him. We did not need an inquisition about our personal life.

amdublin

boomerang wrote: »

So tell me, if you had to rehome your cat now for some unforeseen reason, you wouldn't be looking for this basic info on where he's going, no?

I certainly would not. I would explain the life he leads at the moment and see how that ties in with theirs.
E.g. He does not like other cats. Is not a lap cat, so if your looking for a lap cat it's not going to work.
Very independent and likes going on (slow) walkabouts :-)

Frankly that someone owns their home is no concern of mine - and really in this day and age does it count for anything!

DBB

amdublin wrote: »

Frankly that someone owns their home is no concern of mine - and really in this day and age does it count for anything!

I'm not understanding why you can't see the problem here... what if the person you give your cat to lives in rented accommodation where pets are not allowed? The landlord tells them the cat has to go.
What then?

amdublin

DBB wrote: »

I'm not understanding why you can't see the problem here... what if the person you give your cat to lives in rented accommodation where pets are not allowed? The landlord tells them the cat has to go.
What then?

People lie unfortunately.

So by asking the questions you are just getting lies from some people, and insulting others.
Imo.

DBB

amdublin wrote: »

People lie unfortunately.

So by asking the questions you are just getting lies from some people, and insulting others.
Imo.

But they're not necessarily lying.. you're being obtuse.
If you don't ask them do they live in rented accommodation, and then check with them that their landlord is okay with animals in the property, then how can they lie about it?
You'd be surprised how many people don't even think of asking their landlord. I take in about 10% of the dogs I take in each year under these exact circumstances... people make assumptions, then have to ditch their dog because it turns out they're not allowed have animals in their rented property.
Not asking the questions is just burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best. It's a rubbish, irresponsible way to rehome an animal.
But as you're determined to be offended, and determined to make out that you wouldn't make sure your own animal was going to a safe home, I might as well be talking to a wall... which is what this thread is pretty much about. You have managed to prove the point of the thread!

Edited to add:
If people lie to me, they are pretty quickly found out, thanks to the robust system of checks I have in place. It doesn't happen much.
People can choose to be offended by my line of questioning before they ever contact me: my application form makes it pretty clear where I'm coming from. If they want to be offended and go to another rescue who doesn't care about them or their animals, that's their lookout. I'm inundated with people who are not in the least offended, and welcome the questions. But I do take quite a few dogs in every year who were got from slapdash rescues originally.. but wouldn't take the dog back when the dog turned out to be unsuitable. Picking up after other "rescues" is great fun.

boomerang

And how would you know how your cat's life would tie in with theirs, without asking a few basic questions? You're not making sense. But you know, having rehomed literally hundreds of cats in the last five or six years, I'm not bothered by the handful of people who were offended by my enquiries. And you think everyone responds either by being offended, or by lying? You've got a very low opinion of people.