Lamping near Croom Co. Limerick

tomtucker81

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Only the landowner can prosecute,and the penalty for trespass is very little,not worh the hassle and the legal cost to landowner

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0013.html

the particular sec 13 referred to is of the public order act, which is prosecuted by gardai. Thos section does require by its wording of the offence, an injured party, ie the landowner to make a complaint to the gardai about the trepass in order for them to initiate proceedings. The landowner would also be required in court to provide evidence but as a witness in the prosecution, not as prosecutor.
there wouldnt be any cost to the landowner if there was such a prosecution, save his time off work for court

EP90

So Knipex, I guess its down to the land owner to instigate this with the Gardai if he’s inclined. I would think you’d get some brownie points for pointing him in the right direction with the info. found here, which may help you get your permission back. The locals would appreciate it as well.
Would be nice to hear of the outcome.

pedroeibar1

EP90 wrote: »

So Knipex, I guess its down to the land owner to instigate this with the Gardai if he’s inclined.

Not quite, IMO. The landowner must also own the sporting rights to initiate a prosecution for poaching, otherwise the only option is a civil prosecution for trespass unless he can convince the Gardai to initiate a criminal prosecution (under the Wildlife and/or Firearms Acts). Also, all poaching offences must be proved, so the ‘cowboy/s’ must be caught with game or be seen to fire at game or run their dog, or have a ferret in a warren. But without strong evidence it is the witness's word against theirs, which would most likely be ‘But Judge, we wuz just takin’ a shortcut across dem fields’. You do not want to know what could happen if you lose a civil action .......

homerhop

tomtucker81 wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0013.html

the particular sec 13 referred to is of the public order act, which is prosecuted by gardai. Thos section does require by its wording of the offence, an injured party, ie the landowner to make a complaint to the gardai about the trepass in order for them to initiate proceedings. The landowner would also be required in court to provide evidence but as a witness in the prosecution, not as prosecutor.
there wouldnt be any cost to the landowner if there was such a prosecution, save his time off work for

Again under the wildlife act that I posted
(7) In any proceedings for an offence under this section it shall not be necessary for the prosecutor to prove that a defendant was on the land without lawful authority and, in case a defendant claims that he was on the land with lawful authority, the onus of proving such authority shall be on the defendant.

knipex

I spoke to the land owner a few times since and he does not want the grief of involving the garda.

He never allowed anyone to shoot on the land before but for the last 3 years it has been infested with rabbits (lots of legit fox hunting on neighbouring land kept fox population down so rabbit s took over) which were actually affecting his grass crop and they were digging holes all over the place. I knew he didn't allow and shooting on his land so never even approached him. I know him in passing for a while and he heard I had gotten a licence and had insurance, one day I bumped into him on the road and he told me I was free to shoot away as long as it was only rabbits. We agreed I would only shoot when there were no animals out, wouldn't bother the neighbours, kept it quite (ie not talk about it) didn't make it obvious (no parking the car in gateways etc), didn't leave offal around etc.. Some basic respect..

He is just fed up and annoyed, he doesn't blame me but just wants the problem to be gone. He has put a blanket ban on shooting his land and been very public about it..

We remain on good terms, it's his land so his gift to allow or not allow shooting. His decision and I respect that.. Dissapointed but I have other permissions. ..

Since I posted they have not been back but people are watching out, looking out for cars etc but there are so many ways onto the land both directly and through other land it may prove difficult.

foxpie

im a genuine lamper in croom. where in croom is this farmer based so i can avoid his land. as i would not like to cause conflict.

One shot on kill

MYbe just avoid land you don't have permission on and you should be ok.


Welcome to boards by the way.

knipex

foxpie wrote: »

im a genuine lamper in croom. where in croom is this farmer based so i can avoid his land. as i would not like to cause conflict.

As previously said.. You should avoid all land unless you have specific permission from the landowner..

You should not shoot on land with livestock...

You should also avoid shooting anywhere near houses.. Particularly after dark..

If you are shooting on any land without permission..... then you are not a "legit" lamper.. What you are doing is illegal.

foxpie

it is only common sence not to discharge a firearm near a house or livestock. i have permission to shoot a lot of land in the croom and surrounding area, over the years. i have not lamped croom in 5 weeks that is why id like to find out here which farm this happened on and if not it means i have to call every farmer i no to find out, which is going to take a lot of time. what i am doing is not illegal, i shoot where i have permission to and thats it. and anyone going out after dark with a shotgun is only asking for trouble.

charlie10

totally agree with you going out with shotgun after dark is stupid and asking for trouble ,yes your probably allowed and fellas have shot lots of foxs this way but its just madness

garv123

charlie10 wrote: »

totally agree with you going out with shotgun after dark is stupid and asking for trouble ,yes your probably allowed and fellas have shot lots of foxs this way but its just madness

People have years ago when the country side was not as built up as it is now.
Now theres so many houses around theres not as many places suitable for the noise of a shotgun in the dead of the night.

EP90

foxpie wrote: »

i have permission to shoot a lot of land in the croom and surrounding area, over the years. i have not lamped croom in 5 weeks that is why id like to find out here which farm this happened on and if not it means i have to call every farmer i no to find out, which is going to take a lot of time.

If you shoot where you have permission, where it’s safe to do so and don’t create annoyance then work away. No need for you to know which farm or farmer or to ‘bother’ every farmer you know. If your permissions want you to know about any problem they’ll soon tell you..

Dian Cecht

foxpie wrote: »

it is only common sence not to discharge a firearm near a house or livestock. i have permission to shoot a lot of land in the croom and surrounding area, over the years. i have not lamped croom in 5 weeks that is why id like to find out here which farm this happened on and if not it means i have to call every farmer i no to find out, which is going to take a lot of time. what i am doing is not illegal, i shoot where i have permission to and thats it. and anyone going out after dark with a shotgun is only asking for trouble.

charlie10 wrote: »

totally agree with you going out with shotgun after dark is stupid and asking for trouble ,yes your probably allowed and fellas have shot lots of foxs this way but its just madness

garv123 wrote: »

People have years ago when the country side was not as built up as it is now.
Now theres so many houses around theres not as many places suitable for the noise of a shotgun in the dead of the night.

Yes, much safer using high powered rifles at longer ranges :rolleyes:

foxpie

what im trying to say is, if i go out tonight lamping around that area, am i the 1 that will be blamed for this fracous that happened last week...... this is the point im trying to make...... i dont shoot at night with a shotgun and i dont go blowing up sods in peoples gardens. on the night in question where they shooting foxs or rabbits.

Vegeta

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Yes, much safer using high powered rifles at longer ranges :rolleyes:

Neither of the lads mentioned safety (a safe backstop doesn't care if it is night or day), they are talking about noise pollution but you knew this and I guess you've a personal dislike of firing rifles at night.

Dian Cecht

Vegeta wrote: »

Neither of the lads mentioned safety (a safe backstop doesn't care if it is night or day), they are talking about noise pollution but you knew this and I guess you've a personal dislike of firing rifles at night.

High powered rifles, even with moderators, make noise too

You must think I'm anti everything :P

You are making quite a lot of assumptions in such a small post

tomtucker81

High powered rifles, even with moderators, make noise too


Indeed they do make noise. Whats high powered though? I'd use a 22mag when lamping. With a mod on. Its certainly gives off a crack, but far less noise than my shotgun does.

One shot on kill

foxpie wrote: »

what im trying to say is, if i go out tonight lamping around that area, am i the 1 that will be blamed for this fracous that happened last week...... this is the point im trying to make...... i dont shoot at night with a shotgun and i dont go blowing up sods in peoples gardens. on the night in question where they shooting foxs or rabbits.

I'd take a guess and say they don't know what they were spoting as they didn't catch them.

You have to remember once your within the law and on your land you have noting to worry about and if your so genuine then the land owners won't cause you problems anyway. In actual fact they might turn to you for help before they would start accusing you of anything.

Also you have to remember your very first post on boards was asking a member where is best shooting land was. Not a good idea no matter how innocent and genuine the question was.

foxpie

i understand now that i asked where his shooting ground is, but it was not ment in the way some people think. i shoot foxs not rabbits

One shot on kill

And I'm not saying it was either lad.

Just though it should of been pointed out. Because every ones anticipation of a post is different.

85levin

I heard about this. There where shots fired out side my house. It was rabbits they where after I saw them out side my place. Its bad news for shooters in the area.

garv123

Dian Cecht wrote: »

High powered rifles, even with moderators, make noise too

You must think I'm anti everything :P

You are making quite a lot of assumptions in such a small post

They do but nothing like a shotgun.

One shot on kill

85levin wrote: »

I heard about this. There where shots fired out side my house. It was rabbits they where after I saw them out side my place. Its bad news for shooters in the area.

Did you report it straight away.

Haven said that every time a light is seen in the field the guards don't need to be rang.

foxpie

85levin wrote: »

I heard about this. There where shots fired out side my house. It was rabbits they where after I saw them out side my place. Its bad news for shooters in the area.

as a matter of interest was that in the croom area or surrounding area.

whitetiphunter

I am a shooter in the croom area, I shoot foxes and do not use a shotgun. If you were so concerned as to put up this post surely you can narrow down the area in which this activity took place to a townland or stretch of road or something. No one would like to distress the farmer anymore or be the cause of you being woke in the middle of the night by a phone call from an angry farmer!!
You are painting an overall bad picture of people out lamping as being up to no good. In fact it is amazing the thugs that are actually seen on a night out shooting patrolling the roads and snooping around places they shouldn't be. Nothing about the good the shining of the lamp on them does to scare them off and protect people's property.
You need to be more specific especially when your post could have an influence on people's perception of me and the sport I love doing. Get the facts straight include a description and then post instead of damaging the honourable reputation of myself and others as being shooters who are respectful to home owners, land owners, horses, children, backyards etc.

One shot on kill

Most of the guys here are decent respectful shooters.

So take it handy there.

He should give out information like that on a public forum. As not only the guys posting here are the ones reading the posts. Plenty of flutes reading and robbing others guys permissions.

If your so conscious of home owners and land owners it doent matter where it is or what road it is. As you wouldn't be bothering anyone anyway. And you also wouldn't go onto land you have permission on so how does it actually affect you to be.

As a matter a fact the whole point of this tread was a genuine hunter sharing his passion for the idiots who caused him to loose his best permission. If your within your permissions abiding by the law then it shouldn't make a difference to you.

foxpie

i think what whitetiphunter is trying to say is that it bothers every lamper and shooter in the croom area, because we the local hunters are the ones being asked the questions. 3 guys from the croom area have red the post but havent heard anything local which is very odd and they now think that the post put up was fabricated for notice and to cause a row. i have called to a lot of farmers today who have not heard anything sinister about lamping in the croom area. and the calls iv made today have been worth my while as my permissions are now renewed. im am not finished yet as tomorrow is another day to investagate

whitetiphunter

One shot one kill, as knipex sated the incident occurred near the croom area. All I was looking for was an indication as to where I should be aware of as I myself could become subject to scrutiny on a night out hunting.
Stating the general location of the where the incident happened would not make any difference to any party involved. If anything it may shine light on the situation and highlight who the person at fault is. Also it may indicate to that person that he/she's hunting antics are not acceptable in the shooting community.
Secondly if knipex has already lost permission to shoot the land as the farmer is against it no-one else is going to shoot that land so that clearly is not going to be an issue there One shot kill.
I am entirely within my permissions and do abide the law when I take part in hunting activities. On the other hand the main thing that is getting to me is the fact that knipex highlighted that it was people out lamping in the croom area. This is a very broad statement to make as to me it highlights to the general public that it could be any of the respectable shooters in the area. The post has cast a dark cloud on the sport in the area and possibly destroyed my credibility in the eyes of the farmers that i have permission from to shoot on their lands, from the described antics of the people in question. More accurate descriptions should have provided in the post so not to possibly demise the characters who are not in the wrong!!

td5

Far too many gangs out plundering the countryside after dark. They seem to think that because its dark they can go wherever they want. They need clamped down on just the same as those out poaching Deer. Brings nothing only trouble to those of us that do it all above board.

knipex

whitetiphunter wrote: »

I am a shooter in the croom area, I shoot foxes and do not use a shotgun. If you were so concerned as to put up this post surely you can narrow down the area in which this activity took place to a townland or stretch of road or something. No one would like to distress the farmer anymore or be the cause of you being woke in the middle of the night by a phone call from an angry farmer!!
You are painting an overall bad picture of people out lamping as being up to no good. In fact it is amazing the thugs that are actually seen on a night out shooting patrolling the roads and snooping around places they shouldn't be. Nothing about the good the shining of the lamp on them does to scare them off and protect people's property.
You need to be more specific especially when your post could have an influence on people's perception of me and the sport I love doing. Get the facts straight include a description and then post instead of damaging the honourable reputation of myself and others as being shooters who are respectful to home owners, land owners, horses, children, backyards etc.

I am a shooter. I have no problem with shooting as a sport or lampers. (although I don't lamp myself).

My post was about twats shooting around houses and animals, on lands where they had no permission.

Anyone who shoots respectfully and within the law has nothing to worry about so I am really struggling as to why some are getting so defensive.... If you are above board and only shooting on land where you have permission away from homes and animals you have nothing to worry about.

On the other had those that shoot on land without permission or shoot close to people's homes (close enough to leave pellets on a patio) THEY are the ones damaging "the honourable" reputation of the sport.

I have no intension on naming the farmer or giving the location of his land (same thing). He has had enough grief and I really don't want the twats just avoiding a specific location because they know it's being watched. I would much rather they be too nervous to break the law anywhere..

Any decent shooter will condemn people who shoot on land without permission or shoot near homes and would make a point of reporting those that do.

We now know where they were parking and the next time they are out we will be taking pictures and they will be reported and I will do everything I can to ensure they will not have their licences renewed..