Leave soot on baffle plates

Wearb

Ok. It's a quiet day and this is something I thought about before. Is there a case to be made for leaving a small layer of soot on baffle plates. It would protect them. I know it shouldn't be there, but after cleaning all water carrying surfaces and setting boiler up properly, where is the harm. I suppose it would minutely restrict the passageway. Any thoughts?

Do clean baffle plates effect the longevity of a boiler.

crock!

Wearb wrote: »

Ok. It's a quiet day and this is something I thought about before. Is there a case to be made for leaving a small layer of soot on baffle plates. It would protect them. I know it shouldn't be there, but after cleaning all water carrying surfaces and setting boiler up properly, where is the harm. I suppose it would minutely restrict the passageway. Any thoughts?

On a c rated boiler it wouldnt make much differance but on an a rated boiler it could be nasty on condensate trap.

Wearb

crock! wrote: »

On a c rated boiler it wouldnt make much differance but on an a rated boiler it could be nasty on condensate trap.

Condensation shouldn't occur in that part of boiler.

crock!

Wearb wrote: »

Condensation shouldn't occur in that part of boiler.

of course not.but any soot or debre ends up near or in condensate trap.

crock!

My baffles arent all that shiny and new looking

Wearb

crock! wrote: »

My baffles arent all that shiny and new looking

If she reads boards.ie, she will now know what to get you for Christmas

Billy Bunting

You'll find that soot deposits on baffle plates aren't long in cleaning themselves. Now any soot left on heat exchanger will have noticeable effect on flue gas temperature and therefore eff.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

If she reads boards.ie, she will now know what to get you for Christmas

he probably needs a good service :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

esox28

What do you call the deposits of kero left behind usually covering the baffles,not soot but a substance like sand cement mixed at 6:1. Is there a technical name for it and what's it from some boiler worse than others.

Billy Bunting

esox28 wrote: »

What do you call the deposits of kero left behind usually covering the baffles,not soot but a substance like sand cement mixed at 6:1. Is there a technical name for it and what's it from some boiler worse than others.

There are several deposits but Sulphur is the most common.

crock!

Billy Bunting wrote: »

There are several deposits but Sulphur is the most common.

Normaly from an over aired boiler.

jimf

esox28 wrote: »

What do you call the deposits of kero left behind usually covering the baffles,not soot but a substance like sand cement mixed at 6:1. Is there a technical name for it and what's it from some boiler worse than others.

I find it more in overaired boilers so im guessing its a deposit from badly atomised fuel

crock!

jimf wrote: »

he probably needs a good service :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

its cuming up to that time of year

jimf

crock! wrote: »

Normaly from an over aired boiler.

apologies crock we virtually posted together

but its great to see great minds think alike :P:P

Stella Virgo

Wearb wrote: »

Ok. It's a quiet day and this is something I thought about before. Is there a case to be made for leaving a small layer of soot on baffle plates. It would protect them. I know it shouldn't be there, but after cleaning all water carrying surfaces and setting boiler up properly, where is the harm. I suppose it would minutely restrict the passageway. Any thoughts?

protect them from what ????

crock!

Stella Virgo wrote: »

protect them from what ????

Soot is can insulate them i suppose from twisting.soot insulates boiler from getting heat.anyone finding top baffle on fb enviromax twisting

esox28

Generally you'll find with fb c26 with twisted top baffle due to boiler over sized too much residual heat build up.

Had loads of c26 with the baffles rusted too from backup of rain water leading to condesation as most weren't fired since last may or so.

Wearb

Stella Virgo wrote: »

protect them from what ????

Too much heat and buckling, (yes I know that shouldn't happen but it does) but even without that problem, does a thin layer of soot on them cause any problems?

Dtp1979

crock! wrote: »

Soot is can insulate them i suppose from twisting.soot insulates boiler from getting heat.anyone finding top baffle on fb enviromax twisting

Yep

DGOBS

Leaving soot on baffles is not a good idea, the baffles do conduct heat, and helps the water jacket in absorbing it.
As Billy rightly said, you would notice a substantial difference (rise) in flue gas temperature, and subsequent loss of boiler efficiency.

Making all inner surfaces of the boiler as clean and debris free as possible is always the best scenario.

Regarding the sulphur deposits, dualx I find is very effective in removing the stubborn bits or hard to reach corners (even a good soaking of the baffle hangers on the FB populars helps when you find dropped baffles)

Have had a few of those Enviromax top baffle woes aswell, they even do a repair kit for the warped top hanger!

Billy Bunting

DGOBS wrote: »

Regarding the sulphur deposits, dualx I find is very effective in removing the stubborn bits or hard to reach corners (even a good soaking of the baffle hangers on the FB populars helps when you find dropped baffles)

A recent investment for stubborn deposits.........

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/7114827/c_1/1|category_root|Garden+and+DIY|14418702/c_2/3|19805469|Power+tools|14418763/c_3/4|cat_14418763|Multi+purpose+power+tools|14418774.htm

DGOBS

A bit to abrasive for my liking, plus find it difficult to get into some spots.
Have you tried dualX? Very good results

Was gonna add a funny comment here, but the rembered I have no humour

Wearb

Not sure if the difference would be "substantial" or even noticeable between clean and lightly sooted baffles. I doubt that their part in transferring heat to the water jacket by conduction is significant, other than the obvious part they play.

Does the Enviromax repair kit weigh about 2 pounds and have a short wooden handle?

Dtp1979

DGOBS wrote: »

A bit to abrasive for my liking, plus find it difficult to get into some spots.
Have you tried dualX? Very good results

Was gonna add a funny comment here, but the rembered I have no humour

How long does dualx usually last you on average tony

Billy Bunting

Wearb wrote: »

Not sure if the difference would be "substantial" or even noticeable between clean and lightly sooted baffles.

I suggest you give it a try, you will be very suprised.

DGOBS wrote: »

A bit to abrasive for my liking, plus find it difficult to get into some spots.
Have you tried dualX? Very good results

Was gonna add a funny comment here, but the rembered I have no humour

I only use the scrapper on the plates, a small hand scraper and wire brush elsewhere.

Now give us the funny.

esox28

R you fully protected when using dualx...?

Where can you get dualx...?

pubs lads jacks and representatives of safe operative practices.

jimf

DGOBS wrote: »

A bit to abrasive for my liking, plus find it difficult to get into some spots.
Have you tried dualX? Very good results

Was gonna add a funny comment here, but the rembered I have no humour

have a funny feeling where this is going your only missing an a from making this a very different cleaning product shall we say

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

have a funny feeling where this is going your only missing an a from making this a very different cleaning product shall we say

I think its gone way past sooted baffles anyway. I do suppose its not a topic that can maintain undivided attention for too long. Sooty can't compete with Smutty

Billy Bunting

Wearb wrote: »

I do suppose its not a topic that can maintain undivided attention for too long. Sooty can't compete with Smutty

Twasn't i who took it off topic, and i really don't think he'll get smutty

Wearb

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Twasn't i who took it off topic, and i really don't think he'll get smutty

No it wasn't you Billy. I am quite shocked by who it was really. What do you think DTP...a small infringement perhaps??? :D:D:D

Billy Bunting

He's in bother once Gary gets back.

Wearb

Billy Bunting wrote: »

He's in bother once Gary gets back.

OOoops. I meant to say what do you think GARY

La..la....la...la....la..... La...........

I can't hear ye.

DGOBS

+1 Billy, would make quite a difference, but hey all that time building and testing boilers what would I know about it.

Re the funny, I could ruin my anally retentive reputation!

Billy Bunting

DGOBS wrote: »

+1 Billy, would make quite a difference, but hey all that time building and testing boilers what would I know about it.

Re the funny, I could ruin my anally retentive reputation!

gary71 wrote: »

La..la....la...la....la..... La...........

I can't hear ye.

These buggers never go home

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

No it wasn't you Billy. I am quite shocked by who it was really. What do you think DTP...a small infringement perhaps??? :D:D:D

Jayyyyysus I had no idea what ye were on about till I read it back lol.
It actually was a genuine question as I bought some recently!

Wearb

DGOBS wrote: »

+1 Billy, would make quite a difference, but hey all that time building and testing boilers what would I know about it.

Re the funny, I could ruin my anally retentive reputation!

Ok DGOBS. I didn't mean anything personal. Just trying to milk the thread for all it was worth.

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Jayyyyysus I had no idea what ye were on about till I read it back lol.
It actually was a genuine question as I bought some recently!

Well did you shift.............................it.

DGOBS

20-30 boilers per pack usually unless doing large cast iron boilers or something we'll over aired and really scaled up.

It's good stuff, but wire brush will do a good job too!
Think it really comes into it's own on deep cast iron sections, as hard to get a good clean back there.

As for the 'other' product, I use the catholic method!

Billy Bunting

DGOBS wrote: »

20-30 boilers per pack usually unless doing large cast iron boilers or something we'll over aired and really scaled up.

Never used it but don't you have to cook DualX for a while, then how do you go about cleaning out whats left when hot ?

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Never used it but don't you have to cook DualX for a while, then how do you go about cleaning out whats left when hot ?

have a look here http://www.dualx.co.uk/media.html

DGOBS

You hover the boiler first and remove the baffles, heat the boiler jacket to a minimum of 50deg the spray with the product, the sulphur dissolves and what's left burns off when you put it back together and refire.

It's quite impressive stuff. Formulated by someone working in Firebird in the UK.
Leaves the stainless heat exchanger looking like you dipped it in pickle paste!

Nothing at all personal taken Wearb. Just would make a good difference, trust us!

Billy Bunting

I can see its uses in secondary H/E and real dirt buckets but it seems a bit over kill for most S/E boilers, is that vapour safe to be around, it looks nasty.

DGOBS

It's a good question, one I never got an answer for.

I done a consultancy project for a large company two years ago, and dualX was part of it, the H&S of the company asked the same question.
The product is very safe, but the fumes....eh....????????
But I do mask up! And once it's in, seal the chamber and fire the boiler so most is out the flue ASAP.

As with all things, it's only another tool, not a solve all.

scudo2

I bend the first plate corners by 2-3mm
It lifts it off first shelf. Allows for even heat spread at sides while the back is still the same. No more warping.
Never had a problem since.


Don't shoot the messenger PZ.

DGOBS

On the enviromax? Or just boilers in general?

The enviromax baffles are bent on both sides, the warp occurs in the centre rear of the baffle.

Welcome back.

scudo2

DGOBS wrote: »

On the enviromax? Or just boilers in general?

The enviromax baffles are bent on both sides, the warp occurs in the centre rear of the baffle.

Welcome back.

On ENVIROMAX.

Bend the 4 corners. More air space. Back of baffle teeth are af 90 degrees to boiler wall while at sides plates are only 45degrees causing more resistance. Bending corners cause lifting off first shelf at sides = less restiance of 45 degree angle.

Its only my opinion and experience, no need for a lynching !!!

I know a bit about oil boilers, haven't a clue about gas, humour or diplomacy.! Or so I'm told.
See ya.
cheers

Wearb

DGOBS wrote: »

Nothing at all personal taken Wearb. Just would make a good difference, trust us!

I am a natural Doubting Thomas.
If everything was made perfect first time we would never have to modify and would never have had HE boilers.
It is not a matter of trust, but a matter of trying to improve. My questions are a quest for knowledge, not a rebuke of (but an addition to) existing knowledge.

Not a challenge to your expertise, (I put great store in your posts) but a reason why I don't take everything at face value.

DGOBS

Interesting, did you notice any rise in FG temp. (Little I would say )
And on revisits, what were the baffles like?
A pic would be great of your modification

Wearb, ditto, we are all here to learn, it's pooled knowledge

esox28

Found a suppliers for dualx ...http://www.heatingengineersupplies.ie

Its not listed on site but I know they have it.

Just taught id share since my last post came across as a skit at the products name, and rightly so. Come on it has a logo like xfactor and sounds like a condom company...brilliant marketing we're all talking so. Haven't used the dualx producct as of yet, but talking to the guys in the know its the dogs back legs.