January transfer window

Ormus

COYVB wrote: »

Makes sense... sell top class attacking midfielder to man utd because he doesn't fit into the team or style apparently, then go and buy another one

Makes total sense to me.

Mata doesn't fit with the intensity Jose wants. Salah is a speed demon and presumably better at pressing.

Massive profit also.

double GG

Agueroooo wrote: »

would Ferguson have sold the previous season POTY to a suffering rival?

HE WOULD IN HIS FÚCK.

Many would say we wish he did.
Valencia 2012 POTY :pac:

Mikeyt086

Agueroooo wrote: »

Chelsea selling Mata to Utd is akin to Ferguson selling Cantona to Liverpool in Jan'93.

would Ferguson have sold the previous season POTY to a suffering rival?

HE WOULD IN HIS FÚCK.

Fergie wouldn't sell Gabby Heinze to Liverpool!

titan18

Salah makes even less sense when they have Piazon out on loan. He's been fantastic this season in the Eredivisie

Godge

Agueroooo wrote: »

I wouldn't say classless but stock piling talent is in no way good for the game as a whole.

Its adding another layer of stagnation and many good talented players will never reach their ceiling, or even World class potential.

think about it:If the sugar daddy owners where around 10/15yrs ago and talents like Ronaldo, Messi etc in starting off got 'stock piled' by one of these clubs then there is a risk they would have not cut their teeth properly, and may never have made it.

go back to the 1970s and 1980s when Liverpool would buy the best British talent from every club and stick them in the reserves for two-three seasons to learn the Liverpool way before making the first team.

It was stockpiling albeit not at the level that is happening now but to say that this is a recent trend is wrong. It is the acceleration of the trend and the relative newness of the clubs (Chelsea, Man City) who are doing the stockpiling compared to those who traditionally stockpiled (Liverpool, Man Utd).

Even my own club Arsenal did it from time to time when at the top. How many centre halves did George Graham have at the club at the same time?

.jacksparrow.

JPA wrote: »

Poor Liverpool, pretty much signed and Chelsea wade in.

Exactly how Chelsea got Mata from under arsenals noses too.

pudzey101

Any news on Draxler to Arsenal ?

Agueroooo

Godge wrote: »

go back to the 1970s and 1980s when Liverpool would buy the best British talent from every club and stick them in the reserves for two-three seasons to learn the Liverpool way before making the first team.

It was stockpiling albeit not at the level that is happening now but to say that this is a recent trend is wrong. It is the acceleration of the trend and the relative newness of the clubs (Chelsea, Man City) who are doing the stockpiling compared to those who traditionally stockpiled (Liverpool, Man Utd).

Even my own club Arsenal did it from time to time when at the top. How many centre halves did George Graham have at the club at the same time?

I am not saying its a recent trend, far from it.
As you said yourself we done it in the 70 and 80's but those players where at the club, following the club philosophy and ethos - if not at the club then loaned down the road to toughen up, or learn another aspect of the game.

But my point is about the billionaire clubs buying up any bright spark, shipping them out to clubs throughout Europe withe different philosophy and probably nothing like that of the parent club.
The upheaval and homesickness associated can be catastrophic to a young player, and because of the amount players talent stacked it must also be very disheartening to a bright young talent looking at the amount of competition for such limited spots.

Again I am not saying any of the above is a new occurrence its just the level its now at is ridiculous detrimental to the game. Especially the monies imvolved.

(eg) Chelsea have 21+ players out on loan at 20+ different clubs.
The combined costs of those players is north of £100 million.
Some of these players are millionaires before they even make a first team appearance.
That in itself can be detrimental to a players development - hence my original point about the potential for some real W.C talent not reaching their ceiling.

Now dont tell me that has always gone on. It's relatively recent and we don't know its real impact yet.

ctrl-alt-delete

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Exactly how Chelsea got Mata from under arsenals noses too.

also Willian,

Love the chant the Chelsea fans sing about that one.

Stargate

pudzey101 wrote: »

Any news on Draxler to Arsenal ?

The way the transfer window is going , better look out Arsenal .
Liverpool might just come looking

Oat23

Disappointed to see he went to Chelsea. They have too much competition. Liverpool would have been better for him but money talks.

Moneymaker

So Mourinho has lost his mind?

Cannot believe they are letting Mata go.

Hope he proves "the special one" wrong. He was treated disgracefully imo.

CSF

Mourinho has Chelsea getting the results without Mata. I rate Mata as much as the next man but if he has a system that works it's fine as long as it continues to work. If Chelsea drop off now then fingers can begin to be pointed more legitimately.

Johner

CSF wrote: »

Mourinho has Chelsea getting the results without Mata. I rate Mata as much as the next man but if he has a system that works it's fine as long as it continues to work. If Chelsea drop off now then fingers can begin to be pointed more legitimately.

It's selling him to United that most fans have a problem with.

eagle eye

Moneymaker wrote: »

So Mourinho has lost his mind?

Cannot believe they are letting Mata go.

Hope he proves "the special one" wrong. He was treated disgracefully imo.

I'm with you there, one of the best players in the Premier League over the last two seasons.

CSF

Johner wrote: »

It's selling him to United that most fans have a problem with.

I think this only has a solid basis if United pull off a genius ploy, David Moyes pulls off a mask to actually be Alex Ferguson revealing 'It was me Austin. It was me all along.' and United go on to win the league.

Honestly, I think Jose knows that a David Moyes managed team is not a legitimate title threat.

Moneymaker

CSF wrote: »

I think this only has a solid basis if United pull off a genius ploy, David Moyes pulls off a mask to actually be Alex Ferguson revealing 'It was me Austin. It was me all along.' and United go on to win the league.

Honestly, I think Jose knows that a David Moyes managed team is not a legitimate title threat.

Ah, son of a bitch!

CSF

Moneymaker wrote: »

Ah, son of a bitch!

Naturally the title would then be won with Phil Neville distracting the ref while Gary comes in and hits a chairshot, or Fabio sneaking under the ring (this doesn't need to make sense!!!!) with Rafael coming back out instead.

Seriously though, it could take some serious time and a managerial change before United are a threat to Chelsea (assuming Chelsea stay where they want to avoid United challenging them)

Godge

Stargate wrote: »

The way the transfer window is going , better look out Arsenal .
Liverpool might just come looking

And just like every other recent transfer, Liverpool will do all the hard negotiating and agree a fee and make it easy for a decent club like Arsenal to come in and take him from under their noses.

Godge

Agueroooo wrote: »

I am not saying its a recent trend, far from it.
As you said yourself we done it in the 70 and 80's but those players where at the club, following the club philosophy and ethos - if not at the club then loaned down the road to toughen up, or learn another aspect of the game.

But my point is about the billionaire clubs buying up any bright spark, shipping them out to clubs throughout Europe withe different philosophy and probably nothing like that of the parent club.
The upheaval and homesickness associated can be catastrophic to a young player, and because of the amount players talent stacked it must also be very disheartening to a bright young talent looking at the amount of competition for such limited spots.

Again I am not saying any of the above is a new occurrence its just the level its now at is ridiculous detrimental to the game. Especially the monies imvolved.

(eg) Chelsea have 21+ players out on loan at 20+ different clubs.
The combined costs of those players is north of £100 million.
Some of these players are millionaires before they even make a first team appearance.
That in itself can be detrimental to a players development - hence my original point about the potential for some real W.C talent not reaching their ceiling.

Now dont tell me that has always gone on. It's relatively recent and we don't know its real impact yet.

The only difference is the international aspect of it. Remember all those Irish and Scottish kids who were sent home over the years with nothing to show for their years in football from the age of 13.

All the top clubs have been at it when they were the top club. The ones complaining now are from the clubs that are no longer top.

Vinz Mesrine

Stargate wrote: »

The way the transfer window is going , better look out Arsenal .
Liverpool might just come looking

And then Spurs will sign him

keano_afc

CSF wrote: »

I think this only has a solid basis if United pull off a genius ploy, David Moyes pulls off a mask to actually be Alex Ferguson revealing 'It was me Austin. It was me all along.' and United go on to win the league.

Honestly, I think Jose knows that a David Moyes managed team is not a legitimate title threat.

This season, yeah. But United are hardly going to be less of a threat next season with Mata in the team.

CSF

keano_afc wrote: »

This season, yeah. But United are hardly going to be less of a threat next season with Mata in the team.

I genuinely feel that with Moyes in charge they won't be a strong full threat full stop. That is my opinion and I can only gather that it is Joses too

Godge

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

And then Spurs will sign him

Yes, just like they managed to steal Holtby, Capoue and one-goal-from-open-play Soldado from under Arsenal's noses. If Draxler is as good as those three, Spurs can have him.

GTR63

JPA wrote: »

Poor Liverpool, pretty much signed and Chelsea wade in.

Pure Deja Vu feel to it, when push comes to shove we tend to get shoved off at the hint we might have to haggle.
As far as the Mata deal goes Chelsea replaced him with Matic & Salah not sure of the impact those two will have for them. Will either be a starter, Matic maybe?

MaroonAndGreen

GTR63 wrote: »

Pure Deja Vu feel to it, when push comes to shove we tend to get shoved off at the hint we might have to haggle.
As far as the Mata deal goes Chelsea replaced him with Matic & Salah not sure of the impact those two will have for them. Will either be a starter, Matic maybe?

Would imagine that Matic will be a starter, probably alongside Ramires in centre midfield.

Liam O

CSF wrote: »

I genuinely feel that with Moyes in charge they won't be a strong full threat full stop. That is my opinion and I can only gather that it is Joses too

A David Moyes team with 2 consistent 20 plus scorers, a player now who is capable of providing the ammunition for that, more to come in the Summer and all the weak areas already identified? I'm sure you're just fishing for a reaction but with the way it's starting to shape up are you really saying United won't be title contenders next season?

kippy

CSF wrote: »

I genuinely feel that with Moyes in charge they won't be a strong full threat full stop. That is my opinion and I can only gather that it is Joses too

If Jose actually thinks that, he's a bigger idiot than he is for letting Mata go to United in the first place.
IF this deal goes through Moyes will have signed two of the most consistent midfielders in the PL in the past 2/3 odd years in the space of 6 months having identified the issue in midfield that Fergie chose to ignore......he knew there was an issue at LB at the beginning of the season with Evra, thought then that buttner wasnt the remedy and tried to resolve it, thats probably next on the list.

JPA

Liam O wrote: »

A David Moyes team with 2 consistent 20 plus scorers, a player now who is capable of providing the ammunition for that, more to come in the Summer and all the weak areas already identified? I'm sure you're just fishing for a reaction but with the way it's starting to shape up are you really saying United won't be title contenders next season?

I'm sure what he's saying is that Moyes is not a manager capable of winning a league, never mind what players he has.

kippy

JPA wrote: »

I'm sure what he's saying is that Moyes is not a manager capable of winning a league, never mind what players he has.

Again, if thats what Jose thinks, he's a fool.
A manager isn't capable of winning a league until he actually wins it.

Jose has made a huge gamble here, in my opinion, and while United have had a poor season this year a serious amount of that can be put down to three factors:
1. Key injuries to key players/key players out of form.
2. The failure of Fergie to address major issues within the squad over the past few seasons (Moyes cant actually say that though, but every fan here and elsewhere have been rightfully shouting for some improvements in areas recently)
3. The upheaval that losing a manager that has been around decades, a backroom staff that has been there varying amounts of time and indeed a new CEO, can bring.

Point 1 isn't ALWAYS going to be an issue. Point 2 is being addressed and I am delighted with the players gotten so far and point 3 is a time thing.

Key for Moyes at this point, as I have said, is to get the right players in in this window and the next as well as getting the right players out.
This season they need to get into that CL spot - which isn't out of reach, and build on it over the summer for next season.

Mourinho will be eying up the next cash rich club he can get into over the summer and most likely wont be worried about United either way.

JPA

kippy wrote: »

Again, if thats what Jose thinks, he's a fool.
A manager isn't capable of winning a league until he actually wins it.

Jose has made a huge gamble here, in my opinion, and while United have had a poor season this year a serious amount of that can be put down to three factors:
1. Key injuries to key players/key players out of form.
2. The failure of Fergie to address major issues within the squad over the past few seasons (Moyes cant actually say that though, but every fan here and elsewhere have been rightfully shouting for some improvements in areas recently)
3. The upheaval that losing a manager that has been around decades, a backroom staff that has been there varying amounts of time and indeed a new CEO, can bring.

Point 1 isn't ALWAYS going to be an issue. Point 2 is being addressed and I am delighted with the players gotten so far and point 3 is a time thing.

Key for Moyes at this point, as I have said, is to get the right players in in this window and the next as well as getting the right players out.
This season they need to get into that CL spot - which isn't out of reach, and build on it over the summer for next season.

Mourinho will be eying up the next cash rich club he can get into over the summer and most likely wont be worried about United either way.

I was referring to CSF rather than Mourinho.

But on your point 1, the injuries, in some quarters, have been attributed to Moyes' overtraining the players.

kippy

JPA wrote: »

I was referring to CSF rather than Mourinho.

But on your point 1, the injuries, in some quarters, have been attributed to Moyes' overtraining the players.

I know that, and the same logic stands (whether is is CSF or Jose that thinks it)

On point 1. Of course they have, there are lots out there happy to be negative about Moyes......

If you look at the logic of that you'd find it doesn't stand up.
Key points.
11 years at Everton - if he overtrained players you reckon he would have lasted that long there?
Players that have been injured (RvP in particular) have had two relatively injury free seasons before this, they had many many blighted seasons before that)
EVERY club has injured players - the issue with United this season, as well at times in other seasons, is the importance of those players.

quad_red

Liam O wrote: »

A David Moyes team with 2 consistent 20 plus scorers....

A Consistent twenty plus goals per season player? Rooney is many things but he ain't that.

League goals for last 5 years: 12/27/11/26/12.

Rooney was playing particularly well this year and it seems pretty obvious the motivation for this is the WC.

One would expect him to kick off big style for a move again this summer. Guaranteed if Utd don't get 4th.

inforfun

Eduardo Vargas on loan from Napoli to Valencia.

He ll do well there i hope.

ben.schlomo

inforfun wrote: »

Eduardo Vargas on loan from Napoli to Valencia.

He ll do well there i hope.

Thought this was the defend Manu thread til this snippet.

Vargas badly needed this move, Napoli just hasnt worked out for him.

population

So much potential. Benitez made some noises when he arrived about bringing him back into the fold but didn't follow through. Apart from one good game in which he hit a hat-trick he has been nothing short of clueless in Serie A though. The loan move back to South America was ill thought out imo. He should have been loaned out to a smaller Serie A team to get used to the way the game is played here. I really would like to see him come good in a Napoli shirt and moving to La liga is a much more positive step for his development.

Francie Barrett

Zaha having a medical at Cardiff. Jo Inge Berget also signing for them.

Solskjaer seems to be taking the Roy Keane approach to transfers, i.e. signing players from Manchester United, and signing players of his own nationality. I can see it going wrong for him.

CSF

Liam O wrote: »

A David Moyes team with 2 consistent 20 plus scorers, a player now who is capable of providing the ammunition for that, more to come in the Summer and all the weak areas already identified? I'm sure you're just fishing for a reaction but with the way it's starting to shape up are you really saying United won't be title contenders next season?

kippy wrote: »

If Jose actually thinks that, he's a bigger idiot than he is for letting Mata go to United in the first place.
IF this deal goes through Moyes will have signed two of the most consistent midfielders in the PL in the past 2/3 odd years in the space of 6 months having identified the issue in midfield that Fergie chose to ignore......he knew there was an issue at LB at the beginning of the season with Evra, thought then that buttner wasnt the remedy and tried to resolve it, thats probably next on the list.

My opinion is that outside of a situation like the Celtic one in the SPL you don't win the league without a real winner as a manager. In my opinion Moyes is not that. I'd be interested to hear who the last Premier League/the old First Division winner was to be managed by a guy with no previous major honours to his name.

At the moment, United lack the players and the manager to be a contender IMO. They are addressing the first of those issues at the moment by the looks of it, but I don't think you win the league unless you have both. Not fishing for a reaction, that is my honest opinion.

CSF

kippy wrote: »

I know that, and the same logic stands (whether is is CSF or Jose that thinks it)

On point 1. Of course they have, there are lots out there happy to be negative about Moyes......

If you look at the logic of that you'd find it doesn't stand up.
Key points.
11 years at Everton - if he overtrained players you reckon he would have lasted that long there?
Players that have been injured (RvP in particular) have had two relatively injury free seasons before this, they had many many blighted seasons before that)
EVERY club has injured players - the issue with United this season, as well at times in other seasons, is the importance of those players.

At Everton he was able to get away with massive bulks of the season where the team didn't perform. That is a luxury you're allowed when your target is 6th to 8th in the league. Expectations in terms of keeping players fit and at their best are much higher when one run of bad form can take you out of genuine contention.

beakerjoe

CSF wrote: »

At the moment, United lack the players and the manager to be a contender IMO. They are addressing the first of those issues at the moment by the looks of it, but I don't think you win the league unless you have both. Not fishing for a reaction, that is my honest opinion.

I read this in a Roddy Doyle voice :pac:

Burt Macklin

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Zaha having a medical at Cardiff. Jo Inge Berget also signing for them.

Solskjaer seems to be taking the Roy Keane approach to transfers, i.e. signing players from Manchester United, and signing players of his own nationality. I can see it going wrong for him.

Hmm, but in my opinion Zaha is a better calibre of player than the type Keane was bringing in. He was brilliant for Palace last year in the Championship, and Moyes hasn't really given him a chance to show what he can do.

Not sure about how Ole will fare as a manager, but I hope he gets a fair chance. Love the man!

CSF

In the end, it'll come down to how good these Norweigan lads are, rather than where they came from.

Trigger

Hulk has just posted a Picture on Instagram with him in a private plane in London Luton Airport.. Spurs, Chelsea or Arsenal?

beakerjoe

astradave wrote: »

Hulk has just posted a Picture on Instagram with him in a private plane in London Luton Airport.. Spurs, Chelsea or Arsenal?

Maybe a connecting flight to Manchester??? :pac:

A boy can dream!

CSF

Probably Arsenal?

billymitchell

astradave wrote: »

Hulk has just posted a Picture on Instagram with him in a private plane in London Luton Airport.. Spurs, Chelsea or Arsenal?

MagicIRL

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Zaha having a medical at Cardiff. Jo Inge Berget also signing for them.

Solskjaer seems to be taking the Roy Keane approach to transfers, i.e. signing players from Manchester United, and signing players of his own nationality. I can see it going wrong for him.

Hope Zaha does well. His exclusion at United is saddening, epseically when Ashley Young is getting time ahead of him.

CSF

MagicIRL wrote: »

Hope Zaha does well. His exclusion at United is saddening, epseically when Ashley Young is getting time ahead of him.

The story about Moyes' daughter probably has some truth in it.

Crash Bang Wall

astradave wrote: »

Hulk has just posted a Picture on Instagram with him in a private plane in London Luton Airport.. Spurs, Chelsea or Arsenal?

Incredible

lordgoat

MagicIRL wrote: »

Hope Zaha does well. His exclusion at United is saddening, epseically when Ashley Young is getting time ahead of him.

CSF wrote: »

The story about Moyes' daughter probably has some truth in it.

Anyone that actually watched him play for the reserves this season isn't surprised that he's not getting first team game time.

Delighted we got someone to take him on loan. Big step up needed from him.