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Is this feeling normal?
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I would have a huge issue with anyone dipping a dummy in anything, but am appalled that there is alcohol involved. That, coupled with her mobility issue would definitely make me v reluctant to leave her with them. If they constantly undermine your feelings or minimize them when you try to explain, then it does make it very difficult to build up your confidence in them. I find that I sometimes address my MIL as Granny when I am asking/telling her how things are to be with either of my children, and have on occasion spoken about myself in the third person as Mummy. It is a reminder of what roles we all hold, and who gets to call the shots. This is not as confrontational as it may read. But as a tactic it does seem to work, so it removes much stress out of whatever situation has arisen.
I do understand your feelings about those who demand a hold, and I'm shocked anyone would have to argue their decision to not hand over a child when 'demanded' But then, I'm equally shocked that someone would argue with the mother/parent about their decision regarding holding their child. That's hardly going to work in their favour?!
Stick to your guns, and do what you're comfortable with. If a few noses are out of joint, they'll have to get over it. I also agree that no one will be able to comfort a child better than their primary carer.0 -
The thing with new patents is that they generally believe that they have invented babies and no one has done it before.
I've seen plenty if people who have asked for the baby back but were actually relieved that they got a break
And this is precisely the attitude that is annoying. New parents not knowing what they're doing and so the 'professional' has to swoop in.
Have you ever seen a distressed child habded back to their mother? Once they get the scent and the warmth from their mother they are instantly calmed. Anyone trying to interfere with that is being unbelievably intrusive. Its not up to you to decide when to return some one else's baby.0 -
Hannibal Smith wrote: »And this is precisely the attitude that is annoying. New parents not knowing what they're doing and so the 'professional' has to swoop in.
Have you ever seen a distressed child habded back to their mother? Once they get the scent and the warmth from their mother they are instantly calmed. Anyone trying to interfere with that is being unbelievably intrusive. Its not up to you to decide when to return some one else's baby.
as stated before not all cries are looking for mummy.0 -
No as he hasn't been mentioned. There is no comment on how the baby's father feels about his parents holding his daughter. It's all one sided. A friend of mine had pnd and felt the same as op on her first child about the in laws having the baby. It did a lot of damage to her marriage and relationship with the in laws which has taken years to fix. Bottom line is that one person ie the mother does not have total rights over the child and second to that the child should not be used to punish the in laws for issues between adults.
They certainly have more rights than a grandparent............save for the exceptional and rare circumstances where a baby is being neglected and the grandparents are required to step in then the mother and father have the final say in how their baby is treated and brought up.0 -
as stated before not all cries are looking for mummy.
No, not all cries are the child looking for their primary care giver however some are. And you failed to acknowledge this in your previous post.
It might sound harsh but the grandparents, yes while they might have experience looking after kids, it was 20 odd years ago and now it's our turn.
I don't see why I should be paying so much attention to the needs of other people when they refuse to acknowledge my needs as a mother. All I am asking for is a little respect. And unfortunately arguing our decisions is becoming all to common.
In the long run I would love to resolve these issues to form a basis of trust as it would be better for all involved. I am willing to compromise but it's a 2way street and in theory we are all adults who should be able to meet in the middle. But in reality I know my feelings will be either argued or ignored.0 -
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AvonEnniskerry wrote: »Ok I don't know where to start, I will be the first to admit that I don't have the best relationship with my in laws. I think to a certain extent I feel like they've never listened to me or done much to make me feel comfortable around them but my main issue is that I suppose I expected it to be different when I bought their grandchild up to see them. To a certain extent I feel that they've had plenty of time to put in the groundwork but they never bothered and now they have all these expectations that I'm supposed to fulfill.
I have to say, I feel the complete opposite about building a relationship with in-laws. I am the blow-in, the daughter-in-law. They already have their own family dynamic, and it is me who should be trying to fit in with them. My mother and father in law are not well either, they don't travel, so I make the effort to go to see them a couple of times a week, to make sure their grandchildren have a relationship with them and know them. I strongly believe that the wider the range of relationships and influences a child has growing up, the more rounded a person they become. I do my best to foster that whereever I can.
I don't expect grandparents to have to earn that relationship, it's the other way around. I have to build it up from scratch. It's my role to do that groundwork, not theirs.0 -
I have to say, I feel the complete opposite about building a relationship with in-laws. I am the blow-in, the daughter-in-law. They already have their own family dynamic, and it is me who should be trying to fit in with them. My mother and father in law are not well either, they don't travel, so I make the effort to go to see them a couple of times a week, to make sure their grandchildren have a relationship with them and know them. I strongly believe that the wider the range of relationships and influences a child has growing up, the more rounded a person they become. I do my best to foster that whereever I can.
I don't expect grandparents to have to earn that relationship, it's the other way around. I have to build it up from scratch. It's my role to do that groundwork, not theirs.
I can kinda see where you're coming from, but my attitude would have been similar to that before my child arrived.
But once you have your own child, you have your own family dynamic and the roles are reversed.
It doesn't mean you can't listen to their advice etc, or facilitate a bond being created, but those things are up to the parents to allow not the grandparents to force.0 -
I have to say, I feel the complete opposite about building a relationship with in-laws. I am the blow-in, the daughter-in-law. They already have their own family dynamic, and it is me who should be trying to fit in with them. My mother and father in law are not well either, they don't travel, so I make the effort to go to see them a couple of times a week, to make sure their grandchildren have a relationship with them and know them. I strongly believe that the wider the range of relationships and influences a child has growing up, the more rounded a person they become. I do my best to foster that whereever I can.
I don't expect grandparents to have to earn that relationship, it's the other way around. I have to build it up from scratch. It's my role to do that groundwork, not theirs.
I have adapted to their ways for the last 8 years (bitten my tongue on many occasions) as yes I was the outsider. however I am not any longer, I am married to their son and we have a child together now. I should not still be made feel like an outsider.0 -
We'll have to agree to differ, for some new parents babies are a completely new thing and while original reluctant to get advice are thankful of tips and advice shown to new parents.
Take winding for example, plenty of new parents get worked up when the baby cries and think the baby wants them. a relative or friend with experience can show them various ways to calm and soothe the baby such as a back run, knees up to the chin etc.
Babies generally cry for three reasons.
1. They are hungry
2. They have wind
3. They need a new nappy
When babies cry for a parent and if they do it's usually for one of the above reasons.
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with the sentiment in your post. It is equally obvious that there are some older parents who think they know much more about someone else's baby which is not true. They may be more experienced but not with my child.
My own mother has raised 5 children and in the first few months when my daughter got distressed she would immediately hand her back, through no prompting from me as she felt I was the best person to comfort her. This didn't affect my daughters relationship with her granny and grandad, she is 8 months now and beams when she sees them, happily going off to spend the day with them etc
I have physically ached when seeing my daughter get really upset. Wild horses could not keep me from her, that's natural instinct. Anyone who stands in the way of that is just cruel. There's a difference between giving advice and completely taking control.0 -
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I'm sorry but I completely disagree with the sentiment in your post. It is equally obvious that there are some older parents who think they know much more about someone else's baby which is not true. They may be more experienced but not with my child.
My own mother has raised 5 children and in the first few months when my daughter got distressed she would immediately hand her back, through no prompting from me as she felt I was the best person to comfort her. This didn't affect my daughters relationship with her granny and grandad, she is 8 months now and beams when she sees them, happily going off to spend the day with them etc
I have physically ached when seeing my daughter get really upset. Wild horses could not keep me from her, that's natural instinct. Anyone who stands in the way of that is just cruel. There's a difference between giving advice and completely taking control.
Yep! My mum is so great and often enabled me to take a break if baby was crying. She often took over the winding as my LO could have taken a veeeery long time to wind and she changed many nappies. But if I ever asked for my baby back she would hand him back without question! If someone would not give him to me when i asked I'd putting on my boxing gloves. I'm very lucky that never happened ( they are very lucky it never happened!). It's rude. And it's a disgrace. If a mother or father is asking for their child back. Give the child back! For whatever reason!0 -
Yep! My mum is so great and often enabled me to take a break if baby was crying. She often took over the winding as my LO could have taken a veeeery long time to wind and she changed many nappies. But if I ever asked for my baby back she would hand him back without question! If someone would not give him to me when i asked I'd putting on my boxing gloves. I'm very lucky that never happened ( they are very lucky it never happened!). It's rude. And it's a disgrace. If a mother or father is asking for their child back. Give the child back! For whatever reason!
Exactly, there is no better woman than me for asking advice. I don't think my mums phone has stopped beeping with messages since I got pregnant!0 -
Hannibal Smith wrote: »How on earth would you know what someone else's baby is looking for?
Its easy enough tot see whats wrong with a baby. you can smell a nappy, you can feel if a baby has wind. you can see them making feeding action with their mouths if there hungry..0 -
And sometimes a baby just wants a cuddle from their parent/primary carer. It's that attachment, that bond that is formed, that MIL X, FIL Y or anyone else that is in the child's life will not completely satisfy as much as that of the primary carer. Why do you think it is that if a young child hurts themselves, they automatically seek comfort from their parent? Any ole random person nearby wouldn't do, just because they are standing closer to said child and feel they know best. A baby recognises a scent and a voice. As a pp said, its for this reason they start to calm once held. To ignore a parent's wishes, to interfere by not returning a child when asked is overbearing, supercilious and may well lead to a person waiting a long time before they are ever offered that child to hold again.0
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Its easy enough tot see whats wrong with a baby. you can smell a nappy, you can feel if a baby has wind. you can see them making feeding action with their mouths if there hungry..
That is all assumption. And its no more than guess work that a parent can suss out them self. ..so why on earth would you purposefully hold on to a baby when the parent wanted it back?
And believe it or not there are times when a baby just wants its mum. My own babies as newborns would cry, after being fed, changed and winded and as soon as they were handed back to me they instantly stopped. Their instinct took over, never mind mine.0 -
I have to say, I feel the complete opposite about building a relationship with in-laws. I am the blow-in, the daughter-in-law. They already have their own family dynamic, and it is me who should be trying to fit in with them. My mother and father in law are not well either, they don't travel, so I make the effort to go to see them a couple of times a week, to make sure their grandchildren have a relationship with them and know them. I strongly believe that the wider the range of relationships and influences a child has growing up, the more rounded a person they become. I do my best to foster that whereever I can.
I don't expect grandparents to have to earn that relationship, it's the other way around. I have to build it up from scratch. It's my role to do that groundwork, not theirs.
You married your husband and have your family with him. Parents in law are a layer removed. Relationships, of all sorts, are built on accomodation and compromise all round by all people involved not (IMO) by any one person trying their best and compromising themselves to fit in with other people or another family dynamic.
I agree that it is good for children to have relationships with people in the extended family, I had and have to this day good relationship with some of my extended family.
However, I think when you get married/ are in a serious relationship with someone, the inlaws should be welcoming and respectful of you not expect you to earn the right to be there. Your husband/wife/partner has entered into a relationship with you and does not nor should not have this dependent on acceptance by their family.
Be nice, polite, friendly, etc but to turn yourself inside out to be accepted it too much IMHO.0 -
AvonEnniskerry wrote: »I have adapted to their ways for the last 8 years (bitten my tongue on many occasions) as yes I was the outsider. however I am not any longer, I am married to their son and we have a child together now. I should not still be made feel like an outsider.
I agree. You have your own family unit with a man who happens to be their son.
I remember at my wedding when my father in law was making his speech and was welcoming me into their family I sat there thinking "actually your son is being welcomed into my family". I never have, even for a second, thought of myself as becoming part of their family. They are very nice to me and all that jazz but I have a family of my own in my own parents and siblings and don't need or want another one - well unless thats one I make with my husband of our own children. That I'd love and am working on!!0 -
Penny Dreadful wrote: »You married your husband and have your family with him. Parents in law are a layer removed. Relationships, of all sorts, are built on accomodation and compromise all round by all people involved not (IMO) by any one person trying their best and compromising themselves to fit in with other people or another family dynamic.
I agree that it is good for children to have relationships with people in the extended family, I had and have to this day good relationship with some of my extended family.
However, I think when you get married/ are in a serious relationship with someone, the inlaws should be welcoming and respectful of you not expect you to earn the right to be there. Your husband/wife/partner has entered into a relationship with you and does not nor should not have this dependent on acceptance by their family.
Be nice, polite, friendly, etc but to turn yourself inside out to be accepted it too much IMHO.
Exactly.... I do some legwork, and they are accommodating abd welcoming when I do so. They don't expect me to earn it.... but that's vice versa. The OP expects their in-laws to EARN the right to see the child. She has said they didn't put in enough "groundwork". That's not right either. I don't know the ins and outs, there's obviously some history there.
I think the relationship simply sounds broken. Reluctance to give access to the child is a symptom of it.0 -
Exactly.... I do some legwork, and they are accommodating abd welcoming when I do so. They don't expect me to earn it.... but that's vice versa. The OP expects their in-laws to EARN the right to see the child. She has said they didn't put in enough "groundwork". That's not right either. I don't know the ins and outs, there's obviously some history there.
I think the relationship simply sounds broken. Reluctance to give access to the child is a symptom of it.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it was never there in the first place and so there is no relationship. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone wants or needs an extended family.
None of us know the dynamic really and can only be sure of the fact that the OP doesn't like the manner in which the inlaws seem to foist themselves on her baby regardless of her feelings.
If the behaviour of other people around and with your children / baby makes your feel uncomfortable then you are within your rights a) not to like it and feel ok with it and b) to say no to access or limit it.
If I'm lucky enough to have children I would trust my own parents and 2 of my sisters implicitly with my baby. I would be a lot less willing or ready to allow my inlaws mind my baby.
My sister in law and her husband both smoke and do so around their own children which is not something I'd permit near mine. They also are very lax (IMO only) with their parenting style and I don't think its good for the children they have to be like that. Their little girl (2 years old) stays up very late, is quite demanding and they give in to her easily and use the TV as a babysitter. I wouldn't like them to be like that with my children.
My mother in law has obviously raised her own children and so is fine in that way but again a lot of the things she permits and does I wouldn't like for mine.0 -
Now I could be wrong, but I interpreted that comment about groundwork as meaning that they weren't close and she hadn't been made to feel welcomed into the family. She isn't withholding her child from them, and she has outlined some of the reasons she is reluctant for them to babysit, which I think are perfectly valid.
If I was to take a guess, based on what she has written, I think she feels overwhelmed when she goes to visit them, and therefore she is uncomfortable. They take the baby from her without asking, and I'm guessing the baby is being carried by her at the time if it causes this feeling of disrespect. She is left there, uncomfortable, uneasy, hands hanging and when she does voice her opinion, it is dismissed/disparaged, and when her child cries they don't hand her back. Its very hard then to find middle ground.0 -
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Newstarter1 thank you for interpreting correctly. I'm just at a loss as to what I should do now. Ill admit the visits are getting less frequent due to my uneasy feelings, and this continuos lack of respect towards me and my wishes. In theory everything would be ok after we discuss it and everyone is made aware of where the other is coming from but this isn't even an option. It'll be interpreted as how dare I tell them what they can and can't do with their grandchild.
For my husbands sake I would love to have this resolved. I know that they're hearts are in the right places. But I genuinely do feel uneasy around them and yes I would like them to put in a bit of effort to making me feel more comfortable around them so that I can begin to trust their intentions more.
Pwurple, you are pulling me up on my expecting the grand parents to earn the right to spend time with my daughter. From day one they have expected me to keep earning the right to be with their son.
I do not wish the visits to remain this way as I do think its important for all involved to develop good relationships. They will not unfortunately be babysitting her any time in the near future due to reasons already outlined but that doesn't mean they shouldn't see her at all.0 -
AvonEnniskerry wrote: »Newstarter1 thank you for interpreting correctly. I'm just at a loss as to what I should do now. Ill admit the visits are getting less frequent due to my uneasy feelings, and this continuos lack of respect towards me and my wishes. In theory everything would be ok after we discuss it and everyone is made aware of where the other is coming from but this isn't even an option. It'll be interpreted as how dare I tell them what they can and can't do with their grandchild.
For my husbands sake I would love to have this resolved. I know that they're hearts are in the right places. But I genuinely do feel uneasy around them and yes I would like them to put in a bit of effort to making me feel more comfortable around them so that I can begin to trust their intentions more.
Pwurple, you are pulling me up on my expecting the grand parents to earn the right to spend time with my daughter. From day one they have expected me to keep earning the right to be with their son.
I do not wish the visits to remain this way as I do think its important for all involved to develop good relationships. They will not unfortunately be babysitting her any time in the near future due to reasons already outlined but that doesn't mean they shouldn't see her at all.
For what its worth may I suggest when you speak to them (and I think for your own sake you should - you owe it to yourself and your husband to verbalise your feelings rather than have to bottle it up) you have worked out what you'd like to say in advance and spend a little time thinking about it. Also avoid using "you do/ you should" when speaking to them and say "I feel or I think".
It makes the person your are speaking to feel less challanged and more that you are sharing your feelings rather than having a go at them (even if that is not your intention). I suppose its about telling someone you're not trying to change them you're simply asking them to alter an aspect of their behaviour.
Someone suggested that to me and I've found its worked a treat and results in a lot less confrontation and heated communication. My husband and I both have firey tempers and when we first got together I had no idea how inflammatory he found some of the things I said. I changed the way I said things and its worked well.
Granted we still have our moments but they are less heated than before.0 -
I think you should be led by your husband in this case. They are his parents. If he is happy for them to hold his baby then you should be happy with that too.
If my husband stopped my mam holding our baby (when I had no problem with it) I would go mental, esp if he let his own family hold her. If he doesnt like them holding her, then get him to tell them that.0 -
I voiced all the same concerns with my own parents from day one and they were respectful of my wishes which now makes me content they will in fact respect my wishes even if I am not there. The 3month rule applied to them to and they were respectful of it whereas his were not.
It's not that I am setting one set of boundaries for one and another for the other. Also if my husband raises any issues regarding my parents, I am happy to raise the issue as we both need to be content to raise our little girl.
He would be in full agreement that his parents can be argumentative and do seem to have a tendency to take advantage of a situation. But he is used to there attitude where as I am not.0 -
OP I would say just bite the bullet and have a chat with them about it. It obviously is really upsetting you and your husband so there's no harm in getting everything out in the open so that everyone knows where they stand.
( do they know that it is affecting you so much?)
No adult can sulk or be upset with someone who is just voicing their wishes and concerns. If they take offense to you and your husband then so be it, that's there call.
It's a parents right to choose how they want there child to be raised and since grandparents often have a role in there lives it's important that they know the ground rules.0 -
so suprised at so many people saying the op has post natal depression. i would describe her feelings as perfectly natural. cant believe people suggesting she has issues. not handing the baby back when the mother wants her back is a disgrace. i myself dont like the can i hold her people either. i think all the thins mentioned above about undue stress with passing to n fro is true. but god people dont half make u feel guilty. babies are people not toys.
One can interpret the okay-ness of just handing a small baby to just anyone, grandparents included as PND too. I think people forget that everyone is different and to say they are not the same as themselves means that in their mind, there is something wrong with any experience other than their own.
Communication is key. Between the OP and her partner, and then as a team to his parents, just airing grievances and working towards everyone being on the same page. The parents are boss, the grandparents have to respect them. if not then conflict will continue. It's clear she wants them involved, she just wants it to go smoothly. As long as the father supports her, I cannot see any issue with it.0 -
I'm not really sure why you are quoting me, as you seem to be agreeing with me. Relationship is broken / doesn't exist. Same thing, no? I don't think I said it was wrong or right, just that it seemed to be the case.Penny Dreadful wrote: »Maybe it was never there in the first place and so there is no relationship. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone wants or needs an extended family.0 -
I'm not really sure why you are quoting me, as you seem to be agreeing with me. Relationship is broken / doesn't exist. Same thing, no? I don't think I said it was wrong or right, just that it seemed to be the case.
Quoted just as a follow on..............no accucations or impliactions meant0 -
Out of interest, what exactly was this three month rule and how did you apply it?0
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Out of interest, what exactly was this three month rule and how did you apply it?
I mention this at the very start of the thread. It was 3months of just myself and my husband holding and caring for our daughter. We asked others to respect our wishes as everything was new to us and we wanted the best start to help the bonding process. Probably not necessary but we wanted her to get to know mammy and daddy first before being introduced to the world.0
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