AVB has been sacked, Sherwood appointed

Deise Vu

joe123 wrote: »

Should have been given time. Sure they had some bad results, but they are only 6 points off 2nd place.

Had a massive overhaul in playing staff this summer too. I actually like AVB as a manager. You dont see United Sacking Moyes and they are further behind.

Some bad results like 6-0 away to City, 5-0 yesterday, 3-0 at home to West Ham. Less goals than Suarez who missed half the season, less goals from open play at White Hart Lane than Liverpool. This was after a good start results-wise (certainly not by any other criterion), then he has a go at blaming the fans, the media and yesterday the Director of Football.

Its a results (and the occasional bit of entertainment) driven business. It will cost about 1 year of Adeboyer's salary to get rid of AVB and it is either him or most of the squad. Simple arithmetic in a ruthless world. (And no I don't blame him for not getting anything out of Adeboyer).

whatawaster

I'd say they'll try for one of the younger managers doing well in the PL currently - Pochettino, Laudrup or Martinez. Not sure if they'll be able to get any of them.

It's a bad decision by Spurs imo.

LuckyLloyd

The couple of Spurs fans I know prioritise attractive football over all other considerations. Offered a choice between 6th and exciting football or a ground out campaign of top four they would happily take the former. Don't really understand the attitude myself but it is what it is.

JPA

There was more going on than some bad results it seems, just some real bad vibes around him.
I reckon he'd fallen out with some of the higher ups at the club and was on the brink for a while.

SuprSi

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The couple of Spurs fans I know prioritise attractive football over all other considerations. Offered a choice between 6th and exciting football or a ground out campaign of top four they would happily take the former. Don't really understand the attitude myself but it is what it is.

You'll see about a 50/50 split in most Spurs forums on this too. I'd rather gritty 1 - 0 wins and a top 4 finish than Harry's style of play resulting in 6th but I can see why there are fans who would prefer the opposite.

klose

When jon flannagan is scoring half volleys against you you know you're in trouble.

AdamD

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The couple of Spurs fans I know prioritise attractive football over all other considerations. Offered a choice between 6th and exciting football or a ground out campaign of top four they would happily take the former. Don't really understand the attitude myself but it is what it is.

Well they're entitled to their opinion as fans of the club and Spurs have played incredibly boring football all season. They've scored 15 goals in 16 league games and AVB even had the audacity to criticise the fans. Its pretty obvious why the fans disliked him and wanted him out, results or no results.

kevohmsford

Tough for a new manager to come in seeing as Spurs have spent so much money in the summer.
Daniel Levy did not look happy at all in the stands yesterday.

Dolph Starbeam

JPA wrote: »

There was more going on than some bad results it seems, just some real bad vibes around him.
I reckon he'd fallen out with some of the higher ups at the club and was on the brink for a while.

His interview yesterday definitely suggested that.

Grayditch

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

.

I saw that yesterday. Thought he was trollin' at first, but no as I got in, it's a great post.

Royal Legend

BMJD wrote: »

Rafa? Martinez??? Seriously why the flip would either of them step down to Spurs?

Glad that Suarez is destroying managers as well as teams now. Soon the world will be his.

Next on his list, Directors...

There are no limits to the abilities of Luis Suarez.

The sensible bet for Spurs now would either be Steve Clarke or Laudrupp

mike65

klose wrote: »

When jon flannagan is scoring half volleys against you you know you're in trouble.

Said elsewhere yesterday that you could see Daniel Levy texting "kill him" (AVB) at one point during the game :pac:

Lovely Bloke

AVB the best Spurs manager since 1899 based on % wins in all competitions

nullzero

Daniel levy should just buy himself a nice train set and stop hamstringing his club with reactionary populist decisions whenever his unrealistic expectations of his club aren't being met.

Milkers

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The couple of Spurs fans I know prioritise attractive football over all other considerations. Offered a choice between 6th and exciting football or a ground out campaign of top four they would happily take the former. Don't really understand the attitude myself but it is what it is.

I'm a Liverpool fan and can totally respect that POV. After all what stake do we as fans really have in the results of a club other than emotional investment/attachment? Aesthetics can arguably deliver just as much emotional value if not more for a fan.

nullzero

Daniel levy should just buy himself a nice train set and stop hamstringing his club with reactionary populist decisions whenever his unrealistic expectations of his club aren't being met.

grumpymunster

Spurs could always get Christian Gross back, he knows the way there on public transport and all.

SlickRic

he has the highest win % of any Spurs manager in 114 years.

he also had his defence play a ludicrously high line against two of the best strikers in the league, so he's stupid or stubborn.

i can see both sides of the argument

Lucas Hood

mike65 wrote: »

Almost certainly the first port of call - and yet is he that good? Swansea have been very in and out this season. His summer buys have been equally hot and cold. Of course he could thrive as the "new broom", picking a squad and shifting on some of the needless summer purchases quickly.

Europa League is a curse for the smaller teams. They don't have the squad for it.

pickarooney

Could do worse than Lucien Favre.

LuckyLloyd

AdamD wrote: »

Well they're entitled to their opinion as fans of the club and Spurs have played incredibly boring football all season. They've scored 15 goals in 16 league games and AVB even had the audacity to criticise the fans. Its pretty obvious why the fans disliked him and wanted him out, results or no results.

Milkers wrote: »

I'm a Liverpool fan and can totally respect that POV. After all what stake do we as fans really have in the results of a club other than emotional investment/attachment? Aesthetics can arguably deliver just as much emotional value if not more for a fan.

You play to win the game.

Vinz Mesrine

Milkers wrote: »

I'm a Liverpool fan and can totally respect that POV. After all what stake do we as fans really have in the results of a club other than emotional investment/attachment? Aesthetics can arguably deliver just as much emotional value if not more for a fan.

So you'd rather possibly be relegated after 38 draws, all of which finish 4-4 instead of winning the title with 38 scrappy, horrible 1-0 wins?

Morzadec

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

.

A lot of sense there and I agree with most of it.

But there is a lot you can weigh against it:

A total inability to score goals.

Suicidal defensive tactics against top opposition.

Their points tally artificially boosted by a number of favourable refereeing decisions (they could and probably should be as much as 6 points worse off based on bad penalty decisions going their way). If they were 9th and 12 points off 2nd would we be questioning the sacking as much?

Their wins have been unconvincing - yes a win is a win and a one-goal win is still worth 3 points, but there is an argument there that these types of matches shouldn't be left to such small margins, and that on another day they might not go your way.

He's possibly alienated the fans - there seemed to be no atmosphere in WHL yesterday even before the trouncing began. Perhaps the brand of football is important to them.

I'm not saying he definitely should have been sacked, but I'm playing devil's advocate and there is a stack of arguments that you can weigh up to support the decision.

I think he should have been given at least until the end of the year to see if he could go about turning it around.

A lot depends on the buys in the summer - were they AVB's buys or Levy's? If it's the latter then I can understand.

If it's the former it makes little sense - allow him to spunk 100m and then don't allow them time to gel?

Overall it's a tough one - probably a little premature, a little harsh, and certainly it looks like Levy has overly high expectations for where Spurs should be when you look at the amount of quality teams in the league.

However, I can sort of understand Spurs fans who felt they had seen enough of the team's performances this season under AVB

Guy:Incognito

godtabh wrote: »

They are 8 pints of first. .

1 round of 12 pubs would have had them 4 clear at the top.

Milkers

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You play to win the game.

Exactly. But we don't play. We watch.

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

So you'd rather possibly be relegated after 38 draws, all of which finish 4-4 instead of winning the title with 38 scrappy, horrible 1-0 wins?

Hello Strawman.

kingshankly

Arsene wengerhas now seen 14 spurs managers sacked

Morzadec

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

AVB the best Spurs manager since 1899 based on % wins in all competitions

SlickRic wrote: »

he has the highest win % of any Spurs manager in 114 years.

he also had his defence play a ludicrously high line against two of the best strikers in the league, so he's stupid or stubborn.

i can see both sides of the argument

Lets just put a little bit of context to this - EUROPA LEAGUE!

A dream competition for a manager to be in when they want to shine up their win% record on their CV! I think even Hodgson's wasn't too bad at Liverpool for this reason.

Another context to this is that AVB took over a team which had just finished 4th - few previous Spurs managers would've taken over such a strong team and would have had to build them up from low or mid-table positions.

It's a bit of a 'wow' stat, and aninteresting one for sure, but give it some context and it's loses a bit of its impact imo

LiamoSail

As much as I disagree with the sacking, and AVB's treatment in the press, I do find one aspect amusing.

Perhaps its the bitterness in me, but in much the same way I'd have loved to see RVP, Manuel Neuer or Mario Gotze fail, AVB earned this karma.

Like the above three, he made his name and reputation at a club that was good to him, gave him his opportunity and he in turn pledged his loyalty

Unlike the above three, he didn't go to a rival, but I felt how he left Porto was in poor taste. He had been manager there only a year, was a Porto fan, and had pledged to stay after his first season. Then Roman and his rubles came along and AVB was away as quick as anything

There's no loyalty left in football, but its nice to see those who actively promote this lack of loyalty, when it's in their interests, suffer when others do similar on to them

Anyone

Spending £170m and giving the performances they have this season, I'm not surprised.

brevity

I wonder how much money has he made from both Chelsea and Spurs in pay-offs?

Morzadec

brevity wrote: »

I wonder how much money has he made from both Chelsea and Spurs in pay-offs?

Probably enough to retire at 36. Not bad.

Just feel a whole lot less sorry for him!

LiamoSail

Anyone wrote: »

Spending £170m and giving the performances they have this season, I'm not surprised.

That's a lazy argument. You can't cite spending without accounting for sales if you want a balanced view, and that's without accounting for the time it takes sides to gel, and who's choice the signings actually were

Francie Barrett

I am surprised at just how much slack AVB gets from people here. At Chelsea, he took a team of stars, alienated most of them and nearly had them crashing out of the top 4. His tactics were all wrong and from the outside it didn't look like the Chelsea team ever bonded or played as a team.

Fast forward to this year, and it looks like the exact same thing has happened again. He's using the exact same suicidal tactics from his spell at Chelsea, slow centre backs playing a highline is just insanity against a fast counter attacking team like City or Liverpool. The defensive mess he's created was all his own doing. He had a proven, solid performance in Assou Ekotto at left back and managed to fall out with him. When Danny Rose got injured, he had no back up and was forced to put his first choice centre back into the left back role, which in turn alienated Vertongen. Although Soldado hasn't come out publicly, it's blatantly clear that he's frustrated at not being used to the fullest of his abilities.

LuckyLloyd

For AVB, it's been a wild five years. He's still a very young man and all of this experience will stand to him if he reacts well to it. That said, it's hard to know where he goes from here. Could you picture him knuckling down at a West Brom type gig in a major league and surviving for a three year period and leaving them better than he found them? If the answer is no, then what type of job is he suitable for?

Knex*

One thing for sure now, heat will be on Levy after next managerial appointment.

Right now, AVB is taking the flak.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

He doesn't seem like the best man manager in the world to be honest, still a bit harsh.

niallo27

A lot of sympathy for Soldado on here, i though he was rubbish yesterday, he had a few chance and blew them all over the bar. It's not all down to the service.

grumpymunster

brevity wrote: »

I wonder how much money has he made from both Chelsea and Spurs in pay-offs?

The deal with Chelsea apparently was he would be paid as normal for the duration of his contract or until he took another job (same as RDM) his gardening leave was reasonably short but unless he negioated a severence pack when offered the Spurs job he didn't actually make anything on top of his salary when sacked by Chelsea. There was talk at the time that Spurs saved Chelsea a considerable sum of money in signing AVB.

murpho999

Is there something with AVB that he doesn't relate to his players?

After falling out with them at Chelsea and now this?

Surely Levy is not stupid enough to react to a bad result like this?

If so he should just appoint himself manager as he appears to do the signings.

DeanAustin

While a lot of fans knee jerk too much, I find the ones who think keeping an incompetent manager in the job for the sake of longevity to be equally annoying. Particularly when they cite Fergie or Wenger as examples.

AVB was out of his depth. He had no consistency in his team selections and as a result, people like Lamela, Eriksen and so on aren't performing. His system was being taken apart by decent sides. Spurs lost 6-0 to City and 5-0 to Liverpool and looked pretty awful in both. They could have lost either game by 8 or 9. Even when they've won this season, Spurs have been really poor and anyone who watched them could see that when a decent side attacked them with a bit of pace they'd score for fun.

Levy, who has made mistakes but improved the club beyond recognition in the last decade, made the right call.

SuprSi

niallo27 wrote: »

A lot of sympathy for Soldado on here, i though he was rubbish yesterday, he had a few chance and blew them all over the bar. It's not all down to the service.

This is very true. Twice yesterday he had shots from around 12 yards and skied them over the bar - he has to be hitting the target. It's not all AVB's fault as if Soldado was sticking the chances he gets away the club wouldn't be in such a mess. The problem is that he just isn't getting many chances and his confidence is suffering.

Juniorhurler

There will be no shortage of takers for that job with the squad of players that they have and decent resources at their disposal.

Lucas Hood

This was the first time he ever lasted longer than 1 season at the any of the clubs he's managed.

CSF

Juniorhurler wrote: »

There will be no shortage of takers for that job with the squad of players that they have and decent resources at their disposal.

It isn't that good relative to the level of pressure.

DeanAustin

CSF wrote: »

It isn't that good relative to the level of pressure.

City have no shortage of takers despite sacking a man who won them the league and finished second.

Chelsea sacked a man who won them two leagues, sacked another who'd won a double and finished second the following season and sacked a Champions League winning manager.

People queue up for these jobs because football managers have egos that make them think they'll succeed where others fail. That and they'll get a nice payout even if they f**k it up.

There will be no shortage of takers for the job.

PhlegmyMoses

Seems like a reaction to yesterday's result, which is crazy. Liverpool were excellent first half but you only have to read the matchday thread here to see that Spurs were starting to come into it before they had a player sent off. 3 goals came after that sending off.

That being said, I reckon Liverpool would have won anyway because of the ridiculous high defensive line he was persisting with. They looked **** against an out of sorts United side a couple of weeks ago and would have lost but for a free kick and a wonderful individual strike from Sandro.

Neil3030

I haven't seen Spurs at all really this season. How many goals were actually conceded directly from counter attacks exploiting this "suicidally high line"?

smileyj1987

I honestly pity the new spurs manager . The club seems to have ideas above it's station . They seem to think they are a massive club when they are probably the 5th or 6th biggest in the premier league . Over the last 10 years they have won one trophy . I do think it's a good thing to have big ideas but you really need to focus on winning a trophy or 2 over the next year or two . Not put a revolving door for managers in place .

super_furry

They'd be better off getting rid of Baldini.

markesmith

Levy's ruthless, but he tends to get rid for a solid reason:
- Jol had peaked and became complacent
- Ramos was playing relegation form
- Redknapp for a variety of reasons
- AVB for getting spanked at home without any guts at all

I feel sorry for AVB, and Spurs aren't in a bad position, but Liverpool found us out badly and AVB didn't seem to have a plan B.

People on here saying the West Ham result was a freak but I'll tell you this, none of the other Big 5 sides would take a 3-0 defeat at home to West Ham without there being repercussions.

The high line yesterday killed us. Dawson's not fast enough to deal with it. Inverted wingers weren't able to provide Soldado with service, and I think we had three DMs, with one up front, at home.