AVB has been sacked, Sherwood appointed

DeanAustin

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Levy should go too.

No he shouldn't.

It's almost 8 years since Hoddle managed. I doubt he's the man they'll go for

enfant terrible

CSF wrote: »

Can't agree with that. How many of those players would make the City team? Vertonghen. Maybe Lloris?

He wasn't expected to overtake City he was expected to guarantee a top 4 finish after spending 100 million +.

Harry did it twice with a lot less money.

Chazz Michael Michaels

DeanAustin wrote: »

No he shouldn't.

Ultimately, the root of all this stops with him. But yeah, blame the guy who was handed multi million pound dunces.

DeanAustin

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Ultimately, the root of all this stops with him. But yeah, blame the guy who was handed multi million pound dunces.

The root of progress over the last 10 years from mid table to competing for CL places.

The root of financial stability.

Multi-million pound dunces?!? Like who?

enfant terrible

Chazz Michael Michaels wrote: »

Ultimately, the root of all this stops with him. But yeah, blame the guy who was handed multi million pound dunces.

Wasn't VB the one who wanted a DOF?

Poor VB being handed a hundred million pounds worth of footballers.

Toughest job in football he had.

qwerty93

Djukic has just been sacked at Valencia, They havnt been happy with him for the past 3 months and chose to sack him today, wouldnt be surprised to see AVB Take over

G.K.

Would you at Chelsa take Soldado?

brianregan09

I'd have Verthongen and Lamela at Arsenal...Sandro too if we didn't already have a jam packed squad

CSF

enfant terrible wrote: »

He wasn't expected to overtake City he was expected to guarantee a top 4 finish after spending 100 million +.

Harry did it twice with a lot less money.

But he didn't spend that money, some idiot DOF did. Harry got the players Harry wanted.

enfant terrible

CSF wrote: »

But he didn't spend that money, some idiot DOF did. Harry got the players Harry wanted.

He wanted a DOF, can't moan about it now after asking for it.

Maybe he should have had some guts and signed the players he wanted like Pochettino did at Southampton.

bad2dabone

brianregan09 wrote: »

I'd have Verthongen and Lamela at Arsenal...Sandro too if we didn't already have a jam packed squad

I would too, but vertonghen bottled the chance to come to arsenal. Lamela is a player I've liked. He cost some amount of money, 30 min. Ouch.

CSF

enfant terrible wrote: »

He wanted a DOF, can't moan about it now after asking for it.

Maybe he should have had some guts and signed the players he wanted like Pochettino did at Southampton.

He can if the DOF is ****. Unless he picked the DOF himself which is different altogether, but I don't believe that to be the case, and signing a technical director usually doesn't lead to having players forced upon you. The manager and technical director should be working together.

enfant terrible

CSF wrote: »

He can if the DOF is ****. Unless he picked the DOF himself which is different altogether, but I don't believe that to be the case, and signing a technical director usually doesn't lead to having players forced upon you. The manager and technical director should be working together.

Should of picked his own players then instead of asking for a DOF and passing the buck.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/17/andre-villas-boas-tottenham-technical-director

CSF

enfant terrible wrote: »

Should of picked his own players then instead of asking for a DOF and passing the buck.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/17/andre-villas-boas-tottenham-technical-director

This is a fairly common practice throughout Europe. Lots of good managers use a Director of Football. Villas Boas was just landed with a dud.

enfant terrible

CSF wrote: »

This is a fairly common practice throughout Europe. Lots of good managers use a Director of Football. Villas Boas was just landed with a dud.

So you would sack Baldini, bring in a new DOF to buy new players and give VB another go?

You must be a big fan.

kryogen

Baldini is hardly a dud either btw based on the players he bought, players like Lamela, Erikssen, Soldado etc are hardly poor players

They were clearly going to need time to gel together, that many new arrivals from all over the Europe. Someone else already alluded to a lot of the players also not being suitable to how AVB wanted to play, this has some merit too but it does not make them bad players

PhlegmyMoses

If we are to accept that the dof is a viable job in football, we should be scrutinising them just as much as the manager.

Decide who was to blame and work on it accordingly.

enfant terrible

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If we are to accept that the dof is a viable job in football, we should be scrutinising them just as much as the manager.

Decide who was to blame and work on it accordingly.

What do you think are the players he brought in good players?

Did VB get the most out of them in his system?

kryogen

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If we are to accept that the dof is a viable job in football, we should be scrutinising them just as much as the manager.

Decide who was to blame and work on it accordingly.

They were both surely to blame if the communication between them is poor

Morzadec

Was just talking to a Spurs supporting friend there on Facebook and I thought his comments on the matter would be of some interest to those here, particularly Spurs fans or those trying to understand how some Spurs fans are feeling about it

I'm just bored of it to be honest... we do the same thing every two to three years and have done ever since I've been alive.

Nobody progresses every year. People have good times and worse times. We appointed the guy for a reason, just like we appointed all of them for a reason. As soon as anyone has a bad season we freak out. I loathe it. It has been proven to fail over two decades. What is more likely - that we have appointed 25 years' worth of bad managers, or that our lack of patience is our undoing?

The arrogance and totally unsubstantiated air of immediate entitlement that bathes Spurs makes us our own worst enemy. We want things now and we want them for less than market price. We live in Wonderland. We deserve all the failure we have had and will continue to have until we look at the simple economics and history at play here.

Just back someone Levy, for once. Grow a pair and stand by ONE of the guys you appointed. For good reasons. Not when it's easy to do so - when it's hard. Be a naffing man and honour one managerial contract. This way does. not. work.

smileyj1987

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If we are to accept that the dof is a viable job in football, we should be scrutinising them just as much as the manager.

Decide who was to blame and work on it accordingly.

To me it's a 50/50 blame thing . Liverpool sacked both Dalglish and Comolli and thats the way it should be all the time .

Morzadec

Wouldn't necessarily 100% agree with the above (like I said earlier, there was a strong argument for his sacking), but agree with his general point, and that it was probably a bit too soon to pull the trigger.

Thought it was a well-expressed rant which relates to a lot that has already been said on the situation here

PhlegmyMoses

enfant terrible wrote: »

What do you think are the players he brought in good players?

Did VB get the most out of them in his system?

First we need to decide what his system was. Then we need to decide if the players bought for him were what he wanted. Then we need to know whether there was a coherent plan that both were adhering to between the system and the players being bought.

I'm no expert on Spurs or AVB so I'll not pretend that I know what went on and who was right. But when you have a DOF with sole responsibility for player purchases, the buck no longer only stops at the manager.

enfant terrible

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

First we need to decide what his system was. Then we need to decide if the players bought for him were what he wanted. Then we need to know whether there was a coherent plan that both were adhering to between the system and the players being bought.

I'm no expert on Spurs or AVB so I'll not pretend that I know what went on and who was right. But when you have a DOF with sole responsibility for player purchases, the buck no longer only stops at the manager.

Agreed but when the manager asks for a DOF to buy players for him I would put the majority of the blame on him.

CSF

enfant terrible wrote: »

Agreed but when the manager asks for a DOF to buy players for him I would put the majority of the blame on him.

You know Spurs have had DOF for quite some time now, right? And Villas Boas wasn't asking for anything new?

enfant terrible

CSF wrote: »

You know Spurs have had DOF for quite some time now, right? And Villas Boas wasn't asking for anything new?

Yes how does that change anything.

He can hardly blame Baldini now after asking for a DOF can he?

passremarkable

Martin Jol

PhlegmyMoses

enfant terrible wrote: »

Agreed but when the manager asks for a DOF to buy players for him I would put the majority of the blame on him.

Even if the players bought don't suit? If I'm an owner, I'd lay the blame at the hands of the DOF in that instance.

But then, I don't know the organizational structure there and how much autonomy the DOF has.

enfant terrible

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Even if the players bought don't suit? If I'm an owner, I'd lay the blame at the hands of the DOF in that instance.

But then, I don't know the organizational structure there and how much autonomy the DOF has.

Guess it comes down to whether you think he brought in good players or not.

I think they are quality players.

I don't agree these players just don't suit some how.

I guess we'll see when a new manager comes in if they continue to look bad players or not.

PhlegmyMoses

Put it this way, I don't think Soldado suited AVB's system.

enfant terrible

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Put it this way, I don't think Soldado suited AVB's system.

So maybe he should have changed his system to get the best out of his striker instead of just carrying on like he did when it clearly wasn't working.

That's his job.

smileyj1987

enfant terrible wrote: »

So maybe he should have changed his system to get the best out of his striker instead of just carrying on like he did when it clearly wasn't working.

That's his job.

But then you could also argue why buy a striker that doesn't suit your system .

enfant terrible

smileyj1987 wrote: »

But then you could also argue why buy a striker that doesn't suit your system .

I'm sure they all thought Soldado would be a big hit.

But when the system is not working its the managers job to change it and no one else.

PhlegmyMoses

enfant terrible wrote: »

I'm sure they all thought Soldado would be a big hit.

But when the system is not working its the managers job to change it and no one else.

But this is my problem. You're choosing a side here. You're putting manager over DOF. I'm not sure that's fair if your DOF is given a remit based on a preferred system by the manager, has a level of autonomy on player recruitment, then hands you a player and says "Lolz, make a new system to fit him in".

That's a broken organizational structure if that's the case and your DOF has ****ed up. After that, it is up the manager to make it work, but he can be rightly asking, why am I getting the sack and this clown is still there?

enfant terrible

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

But this is my problem. You're choosing a side here. You're putting manager over DOF. I'm not sure that's fair if your DOF is given a remit based on a preferred system by the manager, has a level of autonomy on player recruitment, then hands you a player and says "Lolz, make a new system to fit him in".

That's a broken organizational structure if that's the case and your DOF has ****ed up. After that, it is up the manager to make it work, but he can be rightly asking, why am I getting the sack and this clown is still there?

Your assuming VB was against Soldado's signing.

Either way as I said earlier he asked for a DOF.

I would have sympathy if it was forced upon him.

SantryRed

enfant terrible wrote: »

Your assuming VB was against Soldado's signing.

Either way as I said earlier he asked for a DOF.

I would have sympathy if it was forced upon him.

Do you have proof or anything to back up how he asked for a DOF?

Ulysses Gaze

Playboy wrote: »

He has to be compared to Rodgers who has had a similar amount of time as him at a new club with squads of a similar level. After 18 months Rodgers brand of football is plain to see and while he isn't winning every game he is doing very well on limited resources. His football style and philosophy has been implemented and is working in stark contrast to AVB's whose team performances have been getting progressively worse and a talented squad showing no signs of what they should be capable of.

And whilst you can look at the table and say that Spurs aren't doing so bad, the reality is that Spurs look a poor side. It isnt like Spurs are playing well and losing, Spurs are getting hammered by good opposition and scraping wins against very poor opposition. Fulham deserved to beat us the other week. No Spurs fan i know are deluded enough to think that we should be challenging for the title or a shoe in for top 4 given the amount of changes in the summer. However they do expect that the managers brand of football has been implemented and working and that the squad and style of play is progressing. I said at the beginning of the season that I didnt expect top 4 as it would be a season of transition but it is one thing putting up with poor results and another thing putting up with poor results and abject team performances where players look absolutely clueless as to what is expected of them.

It is unfortunate that the Martinez ship has sailed as he was number one on my wishlist to replace Harry. Not sure who we could get now... dont fancy Laudrup or Cappello and Pochettino isnt proven enough. I will literally cry if they appoint Hoddle again or Tim Sherwood as interim. Hiddink is the only option that excites me but no way Roman would let that happen.

Managers I'd consider are:

Hiddink
Lippi
Luciano Spalletti (currently managing Zenith Petersburg)

Spaletti would be a wild card but when he managed Roma he played exceptionally attractive football and with limited resources did very well.

enfant terrible

SantryRed wrote: »

Do you have proof or anything to back up how he asked for a DOF?

Post 215 in this thread.

Ulysses Gaze

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I'd like to see Spurs install a club legend as manager with Steve Clarke as his number 2. Maybe even bring back Gerry Francis, if he still has a mullet.

You're in luck...

Moneymaker

Correct decision imo.

He was making the same mistakes he made time and time again and showed no willingness to change or rectify them.

Any idiot can see playing such a high defensive line when Dawson is one of your defenders is suicide.

He kept chopping and changing his line up too, so there was no way to ever have a settled side.

Having a go at your own fans is always a bad idea too. Can't have helped.

They've been awful all season and a change had to be made imo.

Corholio

He made a mistake in continuing with his high defensive line strategy he was criticised for at Chelsea, that and his very poor use of a superb goalscorer like Soldado was his 2 downfalls IMO.

I actually liked AVB, and I think there is a good manager in there if he learns from his mistakes. Turned down sitting at home and earn huge money to take up the job, whereas people like Di Matteo are happily sitting at home raking it in.

Hard to argue him staying though with the scoreline yesterday and complete lack of home goals.

CSF

enfant terrible wrote: »

So maybe he should have changed his system to get the best out of his striker instead of just carrying on like he did when it clearly wasn't working.

That's his job.

Signings should be catered to suit the system, rather than system catered to suit the signings. Alot more difficult to change philosophies than change transfer targets.

CSF

Corholio wrote: »

He made a mistake in continuing with his high defensive line strategy he was criticised for at Chelsea, that and his very poor use of a superb goalscorer like Soldado was his 2 downfalls IMO.

I actually liked AVB, and I think there is a good manager in there if he learns from his mistakes. Turned down sitting at home and earn huge money to take up the job, whereas people like Di Matteo are happily sitting at home raking it in.

Hard to argue him staying though with the scoreline yesterday and complete lack of home goals.

I think you might be overrating Soldado there, has looked muck at all times since he joined Spurs and I don't see how you'd blame AVB specifically for that, (as much as he has to take responsibility for the results) the chap has just been really poor.

klose

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Put it this way, I don't think Soldado suited AVB's system.

He should have built the team around soldado instead he didnt build it around anyone, everyone knows soldado is a box striker/pocher yet he played inverted wingers and 10s who love a pop shot. A disastrous set up/system really.

Corholio

CSF wrote: »

I think you might be overrating Soldado there, has looked muck at all times since he joined Spurs and I don't see how you'd blame AVB specifically for that, (as much as he has to take responsibility for the results) the chap has just been really poor.

I disagree. He hasn't been utilised anywhere near properly in the team. Sticking him up front on his own game after game was a very poor decision. Soldado is a superb finisher and link up player when given a chance up there, he scored a hat trick during the week.

Corholio

klose wrote: »

He should have built the team around soldado instead he didnt build it around anyone, everyone knows soldado is a box striker/pocher yet he played inverted wingers and 10s who love a pop shot. A disastrous set up/system really.

That's a great way of describing it.

AdamD

Corholio wrote: »

I disagree. He hasn't been utilised anywhere near properly in the team. Sticking him up front on his own game after game was a very poor decision. Soldado is a superb finisher and link up player when given a chance up there, he scored a hat trick during the week.

Why do I keep reading this?! He played up front on his own for Valencia, he was never going to be playing in a 2 striker system.

CSF

Corholio wrote: »

I disagree. He hasn't been utilised anywhere near properly in the team. Sticking him up front on his own game after game was a very poor decision. Soldado is a superb finisher and link up player when given a chance up there, he scored a hat trick during the week.

He has had plenty of chances, so his finishing hasn't been upto scratch, and with 3 attacking midfielders behind him, he hasn't been short of players for link-up play. He has had lots of chances up there, the hattrick game was about the only good performance I've seen him put in. He has been truly awful. He has been great in the past but has put in some pathetic performances for Spurs

Corholio

AdamD wrote: »

Why do I keep reading this?! He played up front on his own for Valencia, he was never going to be playing in a 2 striker system.

Nowhere near as loan striker as he has been at Spurs. He had players like Banega, Feghouli and Jonas to link up with, quite different to how the Spurs team lines up in that respect. A lot of the time Jonas was practically playing up front with him.