Water Charges / Tax / Demonstrations / Irish Water / Meter Installations etc etc

omnithanos

I did.

TheChizler

Paid it through online banking, was only €20something as I was only in that rental house for January, haven't got an acknowledgement to the registration for the current apartment yet.

If the cutoff date for the rebate is June 30th, what happens to people whose registrations haven't completed by this date or don't move into a property until after then?

Pawwed Rig

catgalway wrote: »

No...and there's not a notion of me paying anything to an incompetent company...EVER!!!

It can be hard to avoid as there as there are so many companies who lack competence in many ways. Would you pay bank charges for example? Few would rate any Irish bank as competent considering their performance over the last 10 years. How about your phone provider?

aido79

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It can be hard to avoid as there as there are so many companies who lack competence in many ways. Would you pay bank charges for example? Few would rate any Irish bank as competent considering their performance over the last 10 years. How about your phone provider?

People are too easily influenced by the media reporting on Irish water. If the media or the anti water charges politicians turned their focus towards the banks or phone companies and highlighted their incompetencies then people would start to turn against them too. However the last thing the country needs is for people to turn against the banks when the economy is showing signs of recovery.

Seanachai

"when the economy is showing signs of recovery" that phrase is being thrown about so much lately it's almost become a mantra. What does it mean in real terms?, when is the 'trickle down' effect going to kick in, five years, seven years?. The gov are announcing new jobs that may or may not ever materialise in the numbers they say they will and we still have the USC , LPT and now the water charges. Maybe if they were honest they should say that the 'economy is showing signs of recovery for the upper middle and business classes and pretty soon ( we hope ) they will start to share the wealth'.

athtrasna

We have a politics forum if you want to discuss politics.

Mod

bob2oo7

Got my first Irish Water bill today, to my name. Looks like my estate agent gave them my details and they registered me. Are they allowed to do that?

I travel a lot with work and haven't been home much. I find it strange that I have been registered without my consent

whippet

bob2oo7 wrote: »

Got my first Irish Water bill today, to my name. Looks like my estate agent gave them my details and they registered me. Are they allowed to do that?

I travel a lot with work and haven't been home much. I find it strange that I have been registered without my consent

They can do that and consent has nothing to do with it .. Legislation covers the requirement to pay it.

If you want to protest against it do so by other means but don't get your landlord involved ... Your opposition to a piece of legislation has nothing to do with him / her.

bob2oo7

whippet wrote: »

They can do that and consent has nothing to do with it .. Legislation covers the requirement to pay it.

If you want to protest against it do so by other means but don't get your landlord involved ... Your opposition to a piece of legislation has nothing to do with him / her.

Just checking around the legislation of being registered for something without m permission... I would never expect the landlord to pay for something that I am responsible for

Next question.. I'm currently renting while renovating a house I have purchased... so I am paying rent and mortgage, electricity/heating, insurance etc. in two houses until I am in a position to move out. Can I register for Irish Water in 2 homes? Can I get the grand for 2 homes?

Michael D Not Higgins

bob2oo7 wrote: »

Just checking around the legislation of being registered for something without m permission... I would never expect the landlord to pay for something that I am responsible for

Next question.. I'm currently renting while renovating a house I have purchased... so I am paying rent and mortgage, electricity/heating, insurance etc. in two houses until I am in a position to move out. Can I register for Irish Water in 2 homes? Can I get the grand for 2 homes?

Yes you can register for 2 places, although the grant is only for your principal residence.

greenbicycle

Apologies if this has been covered/asked in this thread (too long to read everything!)

Just wondering about the positioning of the water meters outside peoples houses, are they looking for a certain point in the pipes where they install them or can it be anywhere along a pipe? Typically where is the meter installed in peoples experience so far?

The water meter installers have arrived in our estate recently, which is grand. What I dont like is the spot they have chosen to install them in. Like many Irish houses we have a front garden, outside this is the footpath and then there is a grassy strip between the path and the road. I would have expected the installers to put the meter in on the footpath where all other manhole covers are but our installers are putting the meters into each grassy patch which looks awful and will make mowing that grass more awkward.

So this has left me wondering are the installers just being lazy as they dont have to cut through concrete or is it that there is a certain spot in the pipe that just happens to be under that grass outside the houses on my road?

I have read on the IW website that the surrounding area will/should be returned to previous state after work is done, will they be putting down grass seed? Currently they have covered the area surrounding the manhole cover with messy mound of sharp stones.

Just looking for peoples experiences and opinions!

TheDoc

The meters go onto the existing piping infrastructure. So in your case, your pipes go through that patch of grass.

I know the type of design you are talking about, the same was done my my aunties area. She dealt with what she described as a helpful young lad, who advised her that it likely will never go back to it's original state, as there might be a requirement in the future to service that meter. So in theory yeah the grass could be regrown and it goes back to original state, but if the meter ever needed work the spot will need to dug again.

Havn't actually posted in this thread. My landlord rang me and asked how I was approaching Irish Water(he wasn't judgmental or opinionated, and we get on well) and I just told him I'd no problem paying for water and would be signing up. Assume he wanted to maybe figure out if I was going to be strongly against it.

Sign up was a breeze and my first bill came in, with the DD coming out no hassle. Meter went in, but was little to no fuss, and interactions I had with the workers were friendly.

In terms of the cost, it's pretty much barely noticeable, easily my lowest expense in terms of the house, and I'm not even bothering budgeting it. So much more important things to worry about in my life then a few quid a week for water.

The_Conductor

Guys-

In case you're not aware- we have a new 'Talk To' client on Boards.ie - guess who....... Irish Water!

Link to Talk to Irish Water here: http://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1643

Be nice!

greenbicycle

TheDoc wrote: »

The meters go onto the existing piping infrastructure. So in your case, your pipes go through that patch of grass.

I know the type of design you are talking about, the same was done my my aunties area. She dealt with what she described as a helpful young lad, who advised her that it likely will never go back to it's original state, as there might be a requirement in the future to service that meter. So in theory yeah the grass could be regrown and it goes back to original state, but if the meter ever needed work the spot will need to dug again.

Thanks for the reply Doc, i definitly dont expect that they will cover over the meter again so that it is buried I know there will be and expect there to be a manhole cover in the grass but that is what I dont like, why would it go in the middle of grass instead of on the footpath? if it does have to go into the grass for whatever reason I would expect there to be grass around it, not the pile of stones they have left me with :-( Having stones mixed into my grass causes potential for broken lawnmower blades and possible flying stones that could injure someone when mowing the lawn!

I dont get to see the contractors/installers as they obviously have the same working hours/days as me so they are gone when I get home from work.

Will be ringing irish water but just wanted to know if anyone knew about the positioning of the meter, I know it goes onto the existing pipe, but is there a certain spot along that pipe that it must be on (ie can it not be on the pipe where it is under cement rather than the bit of pipe under the grass)

TheDoc

greenbicycle wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Doc, i definitly dont expect that they will cover over the meter again so that it is buried I know there will be and expect there to be a manhole cover in the grass but that is what I dont like, why would it go in the middle of grass instead of on the footpath? if it does have to go into the grass for whatever reason I would expect there to be grass around it, not the pile of stones they have left me with :-( Having stones mixed into my grass causes potential for broken lawnmower blades and possible flying stones that could injure someone when mowing the lawn!

I dont get to see the contractors/installers as they obviously have the same working hours/days as me so they are gone when I get home from work.

Will be ringing irish water but just wanted to know if anyone knew about the positioning of the meter, I know it goes onto the existing pipe, but is there a certain spot along that pipe that it must be on (ie can it not be on the pipe where it is under cement rather than the bit of pipe under the grass)

Don't know the specific place it needs to go on. to be honest I'd rather they dug up my grass then the path. I've seen some of the relaying they have done on driveways entrances and its horrid.

defo worth giving them a bell though and asking what the story is. Although I'd imagine as it's outside your property, local council probably the ones who need to raise the complaint, so you might need to go through them also to see if something can be done.

joeysoap

an update on my previous post: Son in law contacted Irish water and requested baby be put on the bill. Informed by Irish water that as the baby wasn't on the bill they would have to pay the bill and it would be adjusted next time. Son in law said he would pay when the reissued the bill. Told that as the meter wasn't read that the baby allowance could not be given. And to pay the capped figure. He informed them that he as he had no meter they could not read what wasn't there. Then he was informed as he had no meter the baby couldnt be allowed anyway. Spoke to 3 different members of staff at Irish water nobody willing to state that the baby should have been included in the first bill regardless of whether they have a meter or not, quite the reverse in fact, all had the mantra 'you must pay that bill now' . The last person in IW that son in law spoke to actually informed him that babys didnt get an allowance if there was no meter, he informed this person that one of his friends had 4 children allowed and no meter. Silence. Told to pay the bill.

IW will win no quality awards for the level of staff competance. Check the allowance is due (PRSI Number) and issue a new bill. Simples.

TheChizler

Since the children's allowance is 21,000 L how could they apply that to an unmetered bill?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water_charges.html#l62fd2

The capped rates only take adults into account, they are the prices with or without children. So they are based on average to low usage for adults, you're getting any number of children for free.

Graham

joeysoap wrote: »

an update on my previous post: Son in law contacted Irish water and requested baby be put on the bill. Informed by Irish water that as the baby wasn't on the bill they would have to pay the bill and it would be adjusted next time. Son in law said he would pay when the reissued the bill. Told that as the meter wasn't read that the baby allowance could not be given. And to pay the capped figure. He informed them that he as he had no meter they could not read what wasn't there. Then he was informed as he had no meter the baby couldnt be allowed anyway. Spoke to 3 different members of staff at Irish water nobody willing to state that the baby should have been included in the first bill regardless of whether they have a meter or not, quite the reverse in fact, all had the mantra 'you must pay that bill now' . The last person in IW that son in law spoke to actually informed him that babys didnt get an allowance if there was no meter, he informed this person that one of his friends had 4 children allowed and no meter. Silence. Told to pay the bill.

IW will win no quality awards for the level of staff competance. Check the allowance is due (PRSI Number) and issue a new bill. Simples.

Isn't the capped rate for unmetered homes with more than 1 adult €260 per year, how will a child make a difference to that figure?

When your son switches to a meter, there will be an additional allowance of 21,000 litres per child. Adding 21,000 free litres to what is currently an unmetered supply wouldn't make sense.

joeysoap

thanks the Chizler and Graham for your replies,

I have a meter and my usage exceeded the 'cap' so I reverted to the cap. My bill for the year will be €260. My next door neighbour has a meter and one child. His bill for the first 3 months after the allowance was €48 not €62. So if IW don't install meters they are entitled to charge €260 to families with children (regardless of number) and regardless of usage? looks like that to me anyway.

If you were in a supermarket and the cashier said your basket was €65 without scanning any items would you pay it?

FWIW Irish Water now say my son in law does have a meter, just they never read it the first time. And they will read it next time. I would be inclined to wait for the 2nd bill with the first arrears and see if they
a)exceed the limit and b) allow the child allowance.

wait and see I suppose. No mad hurry anyway as there is no penallty until you miss at least 3 payments.

Graham

joeysoap wrote: »

So if IW don't install meters they are entitled to charge €260 to families with children (regardless of number) and regardless of usage? looks like that to me anyway.

Almost, household with 2 or more adults is €260. 1 adult is 160.

joeysoap wrote: »

If you were in a supermarket and the cashier said your basket was €65 without scanning any items would you pay it?

If Tesco bring in a 'no more than €260 for any amount of shopping for the entire year' promotion I'll jump on it. Especially if that €260 is reduced by another €100 in the form of a shopping conservation grant.

TheChizler

joeysoap wrote: »

thanks the Chizler and Graham for your replies,

I have a meter and my usage exceeded the 'cap' so I reverted to the cap. My bill for the year will be €260. My next door neighbour has a meter and one child. His bill for the first 3 months after the allowance was €48 not €62. So if IW don't install meters they are entitled to charge €260 to families with children (regardless of number) and regardless of usage? looks like that to me anyway.

If you were in a supermarket and the cashier said your basket was €65 without scanning any items would you pay it?

FWIW Irish Water now say my son in law does have a meter, just they never read it the first time. And they will read it next time. I would be inclined to wait for the 2nd bill with the first arrears and see if they
a)exceed the limit and b) allow the child allowance.

wait and see I suppose. No mad hurry anyway as there is no penallty until you miss at least 3 payments.

If you don't have a meter and there are at least 2 adults in the household then yes it will be €260 for the year.

If your neighbour's house has just an adult and a child then his maximum quarterly charge is €40, less than the metered charge he's calculated which takes account of allowances. Based on that it looks like they're using more water than the capped figure after allowances, so the cap is in their favour.

People pay fixed/unmetered figures for services all the time, a phone/internet/tv bill will come to some minimum amount regardless of whether you've used the equivalent amount of service or not, in most cases they'll charge you more if you go over, unlike Irish Water.

The_Conductor

joeysoap wrote: »

FWIW Irish Water now say my son in law does have a meter, just they never read it the first time. And they will read it next time. I would be inclined to wait for the 2nd bill with the first arrears and see if they
a)exceed the limit and b) allow the child allowance.

wait and see I suppose. No mad hurry anyway as there is no penallty until you miss at least 3 payments.

The penalty is you don't get the DSP 'grant'........

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

The penalty is you don't get the DSP 'grant'........

Are they planning on checking whether people are in arrears before paying the grant? I thought all you had to do was to register (not that I am suggesting not to pay, but curious about this).

joeysoap

Another area that will require some clarification , if you are not a customer of Irish Water, but registered, you get the €100, even though you don't have to pay anything. You get the €100 even if you only use 1 of the services. I am not clear if you are entitled to the €100 if you are in arrears.

I earlier referred to my good neighbour as 'he' when I should have referred to 'them' as neighbours. They have one child and appear to have beaten the cap easily in the first quarter. (Perhaps because they took a few weeks holidays early in the year)

Anyway looks like daughter and son-in law do indeed owe €65. Just a pity nobody at IW appeared able to explain this to them ( instead of implying they completed the application incorrectly, and insisting they could not talk to my daughter on the matter, only SIL, when all was required was a simple explanation)

I assume the allowance of 10,500 litres will be applied to the 2nd bill, (half of the yearly allowance), or is that too much to expect? It is an annual allowance.

Graham

joeysoap wrote: »

Another area that will require some clarification , if you are not a customer of Irish Water, but registered, you get the €100, even though you don't have to pay anything. You get the €100 even if you only use 1 of the services. I am not clear if you are entitled to the €100 if you are in arrears.

I earlier referred to my good neighbour as 'he' when I should have referred to 'them' as neighbours. They have one child and appear to have beaten the cap easily in the first quarter. (Perhaps because they took a few weeks holidays early in the year)

Anyway looks like daughter and son-in law do indeed owe €65. Just a pity nobody at IW appeared able to explain this to them ( instead of implying they completed the application incorrectly, and insisting they could not talk to my daughter on the matter, only SIL, when all was required was a simple explanation)

I assume the allowance of 10,500 litres will be applied to the 2nd bill, (half of the yearly allowance), or is that too much to expect? It is an annual allowance.

Given the amount of time you spend talking to friends, family, neighbours and relatives about Irish Water it would probably be worth your while spending some time to familiarise yourself with the information that's readily available:

https://www.water.ie/
http://www.watergrant.ie/

pyxxel

joeysoap wrote: »

insisting they could not talk to my daughter on the matter, only SIL, when all was required was a simple explanation)

That's actually not IW's faut, but part of the data protection legislation. My wife sometimes makes calls to banks and service providers on my behalf as I'm not a native speaker and get confused easily or don't understand (especially the Scottish accents at Ulster Bank customer service!) - and they always require me to get on the phone and authorise them to talk to my wife. Just standard procedure I'm afraid.

joeysoap

Got my second bill this morning, with an enclosed information leaflet, which is easy to understand. My daughter also got her second bill this morning , and the child allowance is included, for 91 days, so not backdated to start of year.

My bill 82, reduced to cap of €65. Daughters bill with allowance € 54. So she beat the cap.

Thanks for the links Graham, looks like you only have to register to get the €100. Cannot see any reference to being disallowed for not paying.

Kazuma

Hi all,

I have a situation I'd like to get some input on, if anybody has any thoughts or comments, please share :P

I'm currently living in a large house, which is divided into common areas and 16 separate living areas - the living areas are licensed out (not leased, so none of the protections of the PRTB apply) on an individual basis - it's not a case of 16 of us renting the house and splitting it between us.

Anyway, when the Irish Water registration letters started arriving, the landlords insisted we all register our rooms individually as apartments - I didn't give it much thought at the time, we were told we wouldn't be receiving our deposits if we failed to produce evidence of having paid the water charge.

The two issues I have with this, considering it now, are that

1. About 75% of the rooms only have access to shared water (communal bathrooms, communal kitchen) - the remaining rooms have either an ensuite, a kitchenette, or both.
2. There is only one water meter for the entire building, outside - I'm not sure how this works with the registration - I received a bill of €25, but another resident in a similar room received a bill of €40.

Just wanted to see if anybody had any thoughts on this (or if I should make a topic about it?). Seems a little shady to have us all registered for Irish Water for the same meter & kitchen.

TheChizler

Off topic but I'd love to know how that's a licence and not lease! Does a landlord live there or have access to the private areas?

Sounds like the landlords have messed this up by having such a complicated arrangement. Do all of the bills have the same WPRN? Might be worth sending IW off an email with a list of all the addresses/people affected if they're happy for you to do so.

Edit: It sounds like there's actually only one property, and one mains access, if you look here does the house show up as one property or multiple?

Kazuma

Kazuma wrote: »

Hi all,

I have a situation I'd like to get some input on, if anybody has any thoughts or comments, please share :P

I'm currently living in a large house, which is divided into common areas and 16 separate living areas - the living areas are licensed out (not leased, so none of the protections of the PRTB apply) on an individual basis - it's not a case of 16 of us renting the house and splitting it between us.

Anyway, when the Irish Water registration letters started arriving, the landlords insisted we all register our rooms individually as apartments - I didn't give it much thought at the time, we were told we wouldn't be receiving our deposits if we failed to produce evidence of having paid the water charge.

The two issues I have with this, considering it now, are that

1. About 75% of the rooms only have access to shared water (communal bathrooms, communal kitchen) - the remaining rooms have either an ensuite, a kitchenette, or both.
2. There is only one water meter for the entire building, outside - I'm not sure how this works with the registration - I received a bill of €25, but another resident in a similar room received a bill of €40.

Just wanted to see if anybody had any thoughts on this (or if I should make a topic about it?). Seems a little shady to have us all registered for Irish Water for the same meter & kitchen.

There is a help page on Boards that might be able to help you http://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1643