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second hand car problem

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  • 16-12-2013 3:48pm
    #1
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭


    Not sure if this is the right thread so feel free to move it if its not.....
    I bought a second hand car just over three months ago from a dealership not a private seller. Its an 02 renault clio, I drove it home and got out leaving the keys in the ignition, when I returned to the car it had locked itself... I was'nt given a spare key so I rang the dealership and they had a key cut and dropped out to me, all this took about 3 hours, the new key only opens the car it won't start the engine. Anyway needless to say I have'nt left the keys in the ignition since....
    A new problem is that sometime the engine won't start, the immobiliser light flashes really fast, I've looked online and its a problem with the chip in the key.. The dealership have told me that I need to have a locksmith sort this out....
    My question is not about the car problem I know what that is... I need to know if the garage is liable for the cost of repairing this fault as it was obviously there from the day I bought the car.
    I have'nt priced the locksmith yet but I'm sure it won;t be cheap... any advice would really be appreciated.....:)


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    #2
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    why was it obviously there from the day you bought the car ? I don't see any reason why the dealer would be libel regardless.

    Most second hard cars are sold with gearbox and engine warranty for maybe 3 months if any warranty at all.

    Buyer beware. This is for you to sort not the garage.


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    #3
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    D3PO wrote: »
    why was it obviously there from the day you bought the car ? I don't see any reason why the dealer would be libel regardless.

    Most second hard cars are sold with gearbox and engine warranty for maybe 3 months if any warranty at all.

    Buyer beware. This is for you to sort not the garage.

    Well consumer rights do apply because the product has been sold in course of a business. Whether three months is up to the standard (which is one of reasonable) in an 11 year old car is debatable, but you are probably correct. It wouldn't be in a car that was, say, five years old.

    As for the key, I don't think the garage is liable here, given the fact that they ran a key out to you given you're own error they don't appear to be an unreasonable business. It's an 11 year old car, frankly these sort of minor niggles are something you have to pay to resolve or live with.


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    #4
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    Bepolite wrote: »
    Well consumer rights do apply because the product has been sold in course of a business. Whether three months is up to the standard (which is one of reasonable) in an 11 year old car is debatable, but you are probably correct. It wouldn't be in a car that was, say, five years old.

    As for the key, I don't think the garage is liable here, given the fact that they ran a key out to you given you're own error they don't appear to be an unreasonable business. It's an 11 year old car, frankly these sort of minor niggles are something you have to pay to resolve or live with.

    Thanks for that Bepolite, just to clarify, it was'nt my error, I did'nt lock the car with my keys in it. The keys were in the ignition and the car doors locked themselves when I closed them, the dealership even said that should'nt happen... so the key was a problem from the day I brought the car home...I appreciate that they ran a key out to me but as I had just left the forecourt after buying the car I would have expected a bit of customer service,,,,,,

    I appreciate that a car this age will have small problems, but this small problem will probably cost me 200 or 300 euro which I can't afford right now so I'm trying to find out if I have any legal rights to ask the dealership to fix it......


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    #5
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    If a proper diagnosis has been made to fault the chip in the key, I cant understand why you need a locksmith. Just order a new key from Renault. You will need the chassis number and some ID. I can't imagine it would cost anymore than €150. You can then use the other key for emergencies.


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    #6
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    emeldc wrote: »
    If a proper diagnosis has been made to fault the chip in the key, I cant understand why you need a locksmith. Just order a new key from Renault. You will need the chassis number and some ID. I can't imagine it would cost anymore than €150. You can then use the other key for emergencies.

    Hi Emeldc My post is not about the key its asking if I have any legal right to ask the dealership to pay for the new key....the dealership told me I should go to a locksmith....


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    #7
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    I'd say no you don't others might disagree. The only way you're really know is to go down the small claims route at the cost of €25.

    In relation to the keys, there should not be a situation where the keys are left in the ignition and the doors closed. Frankly there should not be a situation where the keys are in the ignition and you're not sat behind the the steering wheel but we can leave my views on car safety aside.

    Small claims will resolve the dispute, in who's favour is anyone's guess.


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    #8
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    Hi Bepolite
    My car was outside my back door and I was walkiing to my post box which was 2 feet from the car when the incident happened so there was no safety issue but I do appreciate your concern:)
    Getting back to the topic, according to the Sale of Goods and Supply Service Act of 1980, the car should be fit for purpose when sold, is a car which locks itself on the day of purchase and does'nt start fit for purpose ????


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    #9
    emeldc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    bnear wrote: »
    Hi Emeldc My post is not about the key its asking if I have any legal right to ask the dealership to pay for the new key....the dealership told me I should go to a locksmith....

    I don't think the dealership is liable for the key and I don't know why they want to to go to a locksmith, you're not locked out of the car.


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    #10
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    bnear wrote: »
    Hi Bepolite
    My car was outside my back door and I was walkiing to my post box which was 2 feet from the car when the incident happened so there was no safety issue but I do appreciate your concern:)
    Getting back to the topic, according to the Sale of Goods and Supply Service Act of 1980, the car should be fit for purpose when sold, is a car which locks itself on the day of purchase and does'nt start fit for purpose ????

    The car has to be in the condition reasonably expected of the goods considering their age and other factors, in the case of cars, mileage etc.


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    #11
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    I don't know why either... I only had time for a very quick call to the dealership today and thats what I was told... I hope to be able to ring them tomorrow when I can have a proper chat, I just wanted to get opinions here, thanks...:)


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    #12
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    emeldc wrote: »
    I don't think the dealership is liable for the key and I don't know why they want to to go to a locksmith, you're not locked out of the car.

    They've referred him/her to a locksmith for a new key as the old one isn't sending th strong signal to the immobilizer any more. As others have suggested the OP is probably better speaking to the manufacturer directly, but either way will likely have to pay for a replacement. I think what the OP is trying to suggest is, that because he/she managed to lock the keys in the car, that the fault has been there since day one. Difficult to prove at best and even if it is proved will likely make no difference.


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    #13
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    The car locking itself is a "feature" on some cars. Mine does it 2 mins after the engine has been switched off.
    Don't know if it is a feature for the clio though.

    But as said above, I do not think the garage is at fault here and doubt the SMC would rule in your favor.


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    #14
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    The car locking itself is a "feature" on some cars. Mine does it 2 mins after the engine has been switched off.
    Don't know if it is a feature for the clio though.

    But as said above, I do not think the garage is at fault here and doubt the SMC would rule in your favor.

    Hi Trigger Happy
    Does your car lock itself even if the keys are in the ignition ??? Thats the case here...


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    #15
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    bnear wrote: »
    Hi Trigger Happy
    Does your car lock itself even if the keys are in the ignition ??? Thats the case here...

    You'll probably find most car makers don't expect people to leave the keys in the ignition...


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    #16
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    Bepolite wrote: »
    You'll probably find most car makers don't expect people to leave the keys in the ignition...
    Off topic again Bepolite but thanks for the interest....


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    #17
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    bnear wrote: »
    Off topic again Bepolite but thanks for the interest....

    Not really it was a direct answer to a question you posed.


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    #18
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    Bepolite wrote: »
    Not really it was a direct answer to a question you posed.

    Not really,I think the only question I asked was if I had any legal recourse to ask the dealership to pay for the new key.......
    Thanks everyone for the helpful answers, I'll get onto the dealership again tomorrow...:)


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    #19
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Unless you can prove the dealer knew about the key issue, then no, you probably won't get anything. You might call and suggest the cost is shared and the dealer might oblige you, as it's not your fault, but the dealer probably knew nothing about the problem.


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    #20
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    bnear wrote: »
    Not really,I think the only question I asked was if I had any legal recourse to ask the dealership to pay for the new key.......
    Thanks everyone for the helpful answers, I'll get onto the dealership again tomorrow...:)

    It was the one with three question marks......................................................................@!!??,,..


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    #21
    sandin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭sandin


    Its an eleven year old car - sorry, but a car that is 11 years old will have problems especially with items that are used constantly.

    Suppose you want the garage to replace tyres for you too cos they have worn down, wipers and exhaust too and of course free petrol cos you've used what was in the tank.

    Yes I'm being flippant cos you only want to hear someone say you are right when everyone so far has quite categorically said you are wrong. You've convinced yourself you are right, but I hate to say you need to come to your senses and accept that on an eleven year old car, things will need replacing on a regular basis.


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    #22
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    bnear wrote: »
    Hi Trigger Happy
    Does your car lock itself even if the keys are in the ignition ??? Thats the case here...

    I have never tried that!

    This may be a silly question. Have you tried replacing the battery on the key?


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    #23
    bnear
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭bnear


    Trigger Happy wrote: »
    I have never tried that!

    This may be a silly question. Have you tried replacing the battery on the key?

    The dealership replaced the battery the day I bought the car after it had locked itself with keys in ignition...... still had starting problem though.....

    I'm not trying to pull a fast one here, unlike what some people seem to think, obviously they're judging me by their own standards.... I genuinely did'nt know the legal rights a second hand car buyer has....boards used to be a good friendly place for advice but I get the feeling its been taken over by too many people with too much time on their hands and a chip or two on their shoulders... so I'll be taken a break .... Happy Christmas :)


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