Advice on Diet Feeders

andrew_ob

Hi guys,

Have recently become far more involved in our family farm and am looking at investing some money in new machinery and equipment.

In the next year or so I plan to have put up a split meal bin with auger, buy a diet feeder, along with a second tractor to run feeder. Currently have a tractor with a loader which I am also thinking of selling and replacing with a tele handler, as most of our work is loader work (apart from odd bit of topping), but this trade is not essential and off topic.

We feed in the region of 80 - 100 beef cattle (heifers and bullocks), ranging from 12 months to about 30 months.

Most of the silage would be pit silage (approx 25 acres) with approx 14 acres second cut in bales (chopped). We also feed meal (currently Stewards Beef Nuts) to all cattle while housed. Our silage is of very good quality

I would like to add at least straw to the diet, as well as possible change in meal.

to make all this easier I would like to buy a 2nd hand diet feeder and second tractor. any suggestions on type of feeder (tub or paddle, brand etc, what to look for/avoid) and also what kind of tractor would run it (2nd hand - relatively cheap)

Hope you can offer some insights and some of your experiences!
Thanks!!

bob charles

andrew_ob wrote: »

Hi guys,

Have recently become far more involved in our family farm and am looking at investing some money in new machinery and equipment.

do you need this money to make a return or are you investing for other reasons. If its to make a return equipment and machinery IMV are not the way to go. Now aside from my lecture on what you should and shouldnt do here goes

nice cheap tub, as paddle feeder and bales dont go together. 5k max! tractor to drive the operation 100hp can be gotten for 3k if you keep your eyes open. allow for a nice bit of diesel now aswell. Also facilities may need to be changed to allow for diet feeding. Honestly I would find it hard to see a return on investment going down the diet feeding route. Not much point adding straw unless you already need it, straw has a feed value close on fresh air and takes up allot of space so it should be kept to a minimum

andrew_ob

bob charles wrote: »

do you need this money to make a return or are you investing for other reasons. If its to make a return equipment and machinery IMV are not the way to go. Now aside from my lecture on what you should and shouldnt do here goes

nice cheap tub, as paddle feeder and bales dont go together. 5k max! tractor to drive the operation 100hp can be gotten for 3k if you keep your eyes open. allow for a nice bit of diesel now aswell. Also facilities may need to be changed to allow for diet feeding. Honestly I would find it hard to see a return on investment going down the diet feeding route. Not much point adding straw unless you already need it, straw has a feed value close on fresh air and takes up allot of space so it should be kept to a minimum

thanks for the reply bob,

Its not necessarily to make a profit (although if it did it would be great!) both myself and my father work full time outside of the farm and its just to make it easier if possible. Its also to provide a more even mix of meal etc to each of the cattle, so that the stronger ones aren't getting it all.

My mind was already swaying towards a tub, I have seen them in operation and they worked well. but seen a lot of farming forums with people raving about paddle feeders.

Is there need for a 100hp tractor? I've heard people saying 70 hp will work a tub no bother? Our yard is completely level so there is no hills to pull the load up, our passage is 16' wide so no issues with space, can drive down passage, turn, and drive back. Our shed and surrounding yard is only about 5 years old and ease of manoeuvrability for ourselves and for silage trailers was considered! (I worked at silage years ago and it used to be so frustrating going into a tiny yard with no thought gone into the layout, so I made sure we didn't make same mistake!)

As regards the straw, it's something personally I was wary of, but it was suggested to us by a friend of my fathers who is a farm advisor. To be honest though our silage has been tested and has proved to be of very high quality, so should not need any bulk added

knockmulliner

I would go for 100 hp tractor and a 12 cubicmeter tub feeder with a conveyor on the ffeed out. Tub is best at handling bales and chops straw fast, only have to be careful not to overdo the mixing as the pulverised mix is not attractive to stock. The conveyor gives an even and control able feed out. A small bit of straw will improve feed utilisation especially with very high quality precision chop silage, and totally mixed ration results in more even groups of cattle. I also found it necessary to have some sort of back to the feed out area to prevent birds from spreading the feed out of the reach of the cattle searching for grains of concentrate. A feeder also allows you the option of straights and other feeds.

Sharpshooter82

i wouldnt go down the diet feeder route at all.if silage is good just feed it straight from a shear grab and put straw or hay sitting on top of it as required. we always used diet feeder but didnt this year as it took too long to feed and the amount of diesel used

Timmaay

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i wouldnt go down the diet feeder route at all.if silage is good just feed it straight from a shear grab and put straw or hay sitting on top of it as required. we always used diet feeder but didnt this year as it took too long to feed and the amount of diesel used

I'd tend to agree, if both of yous work fulltime, I can't see how a diet feeder will reduce the workload. I'm dairying fulltime, at the minute feeding takes 10mins with the sheargrab, a diet feeder would only add hassle, esp if it wasn't big enough to use the one fill to feed for the day.

epfff

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i wouldnt go down the diet feeder route at all.if silage is good just feed it straight from a shear grab and put straw or hay sitting on top of it as required. we always used diet feeder but didnt this year as it took too long to feed and the amount of diesel used

I agree
I have feeder here but not using this year as its slow and costly
Also found it hard to control the birds
This year I spill meal out for younger cattle once a Day and gone down the adlib route with finishing cattle
I think meal is as cheep as silage at the minute

Sharpshooter82

we have a 14CM feeder and it took about 15-20 mins to mix it each time

caseman

Started using a diet feeder this week ,reasons was cut out alot of labour feeding straight's and fed up graping silage.
It's a keenan 100 bale handler.
It takes about a hour and half in the morning that's two mixe's hopefully that will be reduced, that's the farm work for the day.
Working of farm here aswell.

Zr105

Abbey paddle for the last ten years here, normally would be feeding cows, weanlings and finishers but last 2 years just weans nd finishers, but thats only because of bales which are being use with cows, could handily do the three mixes in well under the hour though,

Definitly wouldn't be parking it up any time soon, main reason being we feed a high enough amount of barely in the mix (finishers) and it would have to be fed 2 if not 3 times a day if just going with buckets, to prevent any risks of acidosis etc.
with feeder we lob it all in in mornin and forget about it till the next day, cattle are getting it constantly through the day and no issues with lads fighting for head space at feeding, infact about half the cattle in the shed wouldn't even bother to get up at first most mornings, just wait till there's room.

As some one else said if your going diet feeder route set up a trough in front of them to fill, that way it's kept up to them, so there never stretching for it, always have it to eat, no issues with crows, and most importantly no having to fork it in and wreck your back(also another reason we prefer feeder, dont have to lug a heap of drums of meal up the yard every day to feed cattle)

If your going to have bales definitly go tub!

Oh and keep it simple, 2 ingredients plus silage is as much as you will need, something for protein and something for energy(barley and soya bean meal here atm mainly as the soya is easy to handle, have it in a bin so can just work from bin into loader and on to feeder,)

Blue Holland

Diet Feeder been on the list of things to get here for over twenty years now just never seems to make it to the top.

Rho b

TBH unless you have money sitting in the bank and are afraid of the Tax man taking it then I think you would be mad to invest in a diet feeder. We have an old Keenan 110 that we use for feeding finishing cows - brewers grain, wheaten straw (preferably) and meal is the mix. It is driven by an even older Fiat 110/80.
As other posters have said it is probably faster to feed with your front loader and either spread meal on top or when finishing feed ad-lib. Although we never give silage when feeding ad-lib - straw only.
Also when you are in a hurry a diet feeder is like waiting for a kettle to boil. They take forever to mix.

6480

andrew_ob wrote: »

Hi guys,

Have recently become far more involved in our family farm and am looking at investing some money in new machinery and equipment.

In the next year or so I plan to have put up a split meal bin with auger, buy a diet feeder, along with a second tractor to run feeder. Currently have a tractor with a loader which I am also thinking of selling and replacing with a tele handler, as most of our work is loader work (apart from odd bit of topping), but this trade is not essential and off topic.

We feed in the region of 80 - 100 beef cattle (heifers and bullocks), ranging from 12 months to about 30 months.

Most of the silage would be pit silage (approx 25 acres) with approx 14 acres second cut in bales (chopped). We also feed meal (currently Stewards Beef Nuts) to all cattle while housed. Our silage is of very good quality

I would like to add at least straw to the diet, as well as possible change in meal.

to make all this easier I would like to buy a 2nd hand diet feeder and second tractor. any suggestions on type of feeder (tub or paddle, brand etc, what to look for/avoid) and also what kind of tractor would run it (2nd hand - relatively cheap)

Hope you can offer some insights and some of your experiences!
Thanks!!

i bought an old relined redrock paddle feeder for one thousand euros , i can have 5 ton of a mix ready in 15 mins of hay , whole crop , silage and brewers grain , i cut all the blocks out for 2 - 3 days and than load all with the bucket saves changing , my cousin bought a fancy keanon bale handler for 8 thousand and it take for ever to take a bale in , i dont feed bales here as i dont have the patience for opening them

Farmer Pudsey

If your silage is good quality above 70DMD I would forget about a diet feeder. Put in a meal bin with with chutes that can be filled into an ordinary barrow. I am finishing 20 light dairy bulls and 10 bullocks and have over 60 weanlings/stores to feed. trick is to have bin near shed. Know how much the barrow takes, as long as you can feed back and front in finishing pens you are flying. Feed finishing cattle first, then wean/stores. then give/push in silage to any pens that require. usually takes about 60-90 minutes. I dislike have more than 2days silage in front of cattle at any one time. By the time I have finished the silage the finishing cattle will have eaten the ration. I would have brushed it in once or twice.

reilig

We have done a deal for a Strautman 14.5m3 for the new year for a new farming project. It's bought between 2 of us and will be feeding about 350 head per day at peak. Looked at a lot of machines in recent weeks - abbey, conor, shelbourn, keenan and finally settled on the strautman after seeing it in action and the deal that they offered us. It's the best machine to handle what we will be feeding and how we will be feeding!

bob charles

reilig wrote: »

We have done a deal for a Strautman 14.5m3 for the new year for a new farming project. It's bought between 2 of us and will be feeding about 350 head per day at peak. Looked at a lot of machines in recent weeks - abbey, conor, shelbourn, keenan and finally settled on the strautman after seeing it in action and the deal that they offered us. It's the best machine to handle what we will be feeding and how we will be feeding!

good feeder, I would have said look at the feedall as it will be the next feeder here, after having a right look around it. Its built like a brick **** house, hasnt the finish but built to last. I was looking at one for research on my own behalf that I was told was only a few months old, chatting away to the farmer that owned and it looked in perfect nick, Then he said it had four seasons done, couldnt believe it

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

good feeder, I would have said look at the feedall as it will be the next feeder here, after having a right look around it. Its built like a brick **** house, hasnt the finish but built to last. I was looking at one for research on my own behalf that I was told was only a few months old, chatting away to the farmer that owned and it looked in perfect nick, Then he said it had four seasons done, couldnt believe it

You wouldn't be disappointed with one of those Bob

Farmer Pudsey

Thing about diet feeders is that everything has to be spot on. Mix too much and you have waste, too little and preformance suffers. Also with bales you have to nearly put in complete bale. You also need to mix every day if using rations or wet feeds in the mix. Molasses is nearly a must so that as feeds starts to go sour they still still eat it out.

If feeding where there is a chance that it will get wet or rain on top you really need to make sure of volumes. All this is extra cost. They have there advantages in that if all cattle do not have access to feed face lads at the back will have access to nearly the same diet. But by the time you have the Auger, diet feeder and tractor paid for cannot see much of a cost advantage unless handling huge numbers.

Simplicity can often be the best solution.

reilig

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Thing about diet feeders is that everything has to be spot on. Mix too much and you have waste, too little and preformance suffers. Also with bales you have to nearly put in complete bale. You also need to mix every day if using rations or wet feeds in the mix. Molasses is nearly a must so that as feeds starts to go sour they still still eat it out.

If feeding where there is a chance that it will get wet or rain on top you really need to make sure of volumes. All this is extra cost. They have there advantages in that if all cattle do not have access to feed face lads at the back will have access to nearly the same diet. But by the time you have the Auger, diet feeder and tractor paid for cannot see much of a cost advantage unless handling huge numbers.

Simplicity can often be the best solution.

It depends on what you are feeding and how you are feeding.
For us, we are preparing for expansion. If we can save €40 per head per year on finishing an animal by mixing our own feed then the feeder will pay for itself in 2 to 3 years. At full production and with €40 pa savings, the feeder will pay for itself in a year.

Lots of people have lots to say about diet feeders. For people like us who have never owned a diet feeder, we could have been very easily put off buying one. But we did a lot of research and a lot of planning for what we want to do and seeing diet feeders in action and seeing the figures from farmers using diet feeders (as opposed to the figures from the guys trying to sell the feeders), it's the only way to do what we want to do.

The other thing is that there are plenty of people out there giving advice about diet feeders who have never owned one. It's like getting marriage advice from a priest! He'll tell you what he believes but not what he has experienced!

You have to have a plan and you have to look at your figures carefully. For the man finishing 20 or 30 bullocks, he was better invest in more facilities or land improvements to keep more stock than buy one.

Like everything you have to do the sums and invest wisely. The only thing I am sure of is that money gains no value when it's sewn into the mattress

bob charles

reilig wrote: »

It depends on what you are feeding and how you are feeding.
For us, we are preparing for expansion. If we can save €40 per head per year on finishing an animal by mixing our own feed then the feeder will pay for itself in 2 to 3 years. At full production and with €40 pa savings, the feeder will pay for itself in a year.
=

I cant see where it can make savings of €40 per animals unless your starting of a high cost base already, which if you are isnt an accurate reflection of the cost saving. That being said I wouldnt be without a feeder. Is that a new strautman you have bought? one of the ones that is very low to the ground? or am I thinking of another make. Your new project sounds interesting for you and I hope it works out. Sharing a feeder makes great sense but usually its impossible to get like working farms side by side

F.D

its a thing i always want but it seems to slip to the bottom of the list, however i am seriously tempted to but a second hand one with a second hand tractor
main reasons other than money
i am working away from home my wife does the feeding, which is all simple with the tractor until it comes to feeding meal, then its her lugging around buckets and bags etc
Last winter because of the hassle of feeding meal the stock suffered, there was loads of poor silage but we did not feed meal, we felt the results at the end of the autumn this year when the cattle were not ready for killing off grass alone
i reckoned the small bit in the shed would have paid off rather than trying to blow them in the last few months
Finally this year we have good silage but not enough so we are feeding our own straw also to slow them down, and now meal also if this could all be mixed and fed in one go it would be handy

i think like everything it might not be used next year it there is good silage and loads of it, but you will always have a few years inbetween where you will be glad you have it

delaval

F.D wrote: »

its a thing i always want but it seems to slip to the bottom of the list, however i am seriously tempted to but a second hand one with a second hand tractor
main reasons other than money
i am working away from home my wife does the feeding, which is all simple with the tractor until it comes to feeding meal, then its her lugging around buckets and bags etc
Last winter because of the hassle of feeding meal the stock suffered, there was loads of poor silage but we did not feed meal, we felt the results at the end of the autumn this year when the cattle were not ready for killing off grass alone
i reckoned the small bit in the shed would have paid off rather than trying to blow them in the last few months
Finally this year we have good silage but not enough so we are feeding our own straw also to slow them down, and now meal also if this could all be mixed and fed in one go it would be handy

i think like everything it might not be used next year it there is good silage and loads of it, but you will always have a few years inbetween where you will be glad you have it

One of the best reasons I've heard for getting a feeder, it would really make your wife's life a lot easier thus improving your cattle.

Have you considered a rear or loader mounted hydraulic meal feeder. You could see them on the Tanco website

Zr105

I think realistically diet feeders will suit some places and will never suit others. If there's only one tractor it makes no sense as buying a tractor just to run it is wasting money..

But if 2 tractors are already there its no real problem, and you dont have to go spending massive money on a new top of the line with bells and whistles if your only feedin relatively small numbers.

Also if the yard isn't set up to take a feeder, ie dead end, narrow passages, no room to turn at the pit face, it's also just going to add time.

And then the final thing if only selling weanlings there'll be no real reason for it As there not likely i be eating much meal, and cows can get on fine with reasonably good quality silage, in a dairy situation if its possible to feed the meal in the parlour already then why not just keep going that way(but I'll admit my knowledge on dairying would be limited)

But for finishing using grass based diets including high proportions of barley and the likes i think they have there place...

caseman

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see where it can make savings of €40 per animals unless your starting of a high cost base already, which if you are isnt an accurate reflection of the cost saving. That being said I wouldnt be without a feeder. Is that a new strautman you have bought? one of the ones that is very low to the ground? or am I thinking of another make. Your new project sounds interesting for you and I hope it works out. Sharing a feeder makes great sense but usually its impossible to get like working farms side by side

Feeding straights would be a big saving per head.
It,s very labour intense without a feeder.

bob charles

caseman wrote: »

Feeding straights would be a big saving per head.
It,s very labour intense without a feeder.

you dont need a feeder to feed straights, you could amply mix most grains with a tractor loader

caseman

bob charles wrote: »

you dont need a feeder to feed straights, you could amply mix most grains with a tractor loader

Yes it can be done but the feeder make's the job alot easier if part time.

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

you dont need a feeder to feed straights, you could amply mix most grains with a tractor loader

dead right on that, when the feeder is fcuked here i wont be replacing it, biggest waste of money ever spent here, if only i was old enough atbthe time to never let it be bought

Milked out

The main reasons for a diet feeder I think would be in cases where
A) There is a shortage of feed space when cattle are being fed more than just silage,
More than two forages are being fed, before we had the feeder the stronger cows used to eat what they preferred with the weaker ones getting what ever was left over, with neither animal getting a balanced diet
C) If feeding high levels of grain it can eliminate the need to feed several times a day to prevent stomach upsets, etc
D) an option to eliminate a more manual element such as meal feeding with bags/ buckets etc, locking one group back while the rest get their feed etc.
there are prob a few more as well

No doubt there are ways to overcome each of the issues above without a feeder so each farm needs to look at their own scenario and see if it solves more problems than it could potentially create, such as the added running costs, etc.

caseman

Milked out wrote: »

The main reasons for a diet feeder I think would be in cases where
A) There is a shortage of feed space when cattle are being fed more than just silage,
More than two forages are being fed, before we had the feeder the stronger cows used to eat what they preferred with the weaker ones getting what ever was left over, with neither animal getting a balanced diet
C) If feeding high levels of grain it can eliminate the need to feed several times a day to prevent stomach upsets, etc
D) an option to eliminate a more manual element such as meal feeding with bags/ buckets etc, locking one group back while the rest get their feed etc.
there are prob a few more as well

No doubt there are ways to overcome each of the issues above without a feeder so each farm needs to look at their own scenario and see if it solves more problems than it could potentially create, such as the added running costs, etc.

Just a few more to add to that.
The wheelbarrow is now retired it used to move 400 kgs a day.
The wife is alot happier i'm around the house in the evening to help with the kids.

49801

delaval wrote: »

One of the best reasons I've heard for getting a feeder, it would really make your wife's life a lot easier thus improving your cattle.

Have you considered a rear or loader mounted hydraulic meal feeder. You could see them on the Tanco website

I'd be thinking the same before buying a feeder like the following rear mounted.
http://www.donedeal.ie/feedingequipment-for-sale/i-e-p-meal-dispenser/5996291

Not a cheap item but still cheaper than a wagon and another tractor to run it!

lefthooker

Lots of good advice here but every setup is different and what works for me won't work for you.

Here I knew I was going to be short of silage and planned on stretching the silage with all the top grade barley straw I have to spare. Didn't fancy spreading a bale on the passage then trying to drop blocks of silage on top followed by 15kgs of beet per head on top and topped off by dragging 250kgs of meal in 10kg buckets. And thats just one house at home. NO THANK YOU.

So I bought a 14cu Abbey tub and don't regret it. Feeding 140 cattle every second day and 55 cows daily and can have a tub mixed in around 20 mins. Only drawback is burning a bit of extra diesel.