Advice on Diet Feeders

Milked out

49801 wrote: »

I'd be thinking the same before buying a feeder like the following rear mounted.
http://www.donedeal.ie/feedingequipment-for-sale/i-e-p-meal-dispenser/5996291

Not a cheap item but still cheaper than a wagon and another tractor to run it!

The only thing to remember with those is who ever is feeding it out as if you have a brother for example looking after things and u see the milk collection going well when you get back and then you go to what was a full meal bin fecking empty.:rolleyes:

Farmer Pudsey

reilig wrote: »

It depends on what you are feeding and how you are feeding.
For us, we are preparing for expansion. If we can save €40 per head per year on finishing an animal by mixing our own feed then the feeder will pay for itself in 2 to 3 years. At full production and with €40 pa savings, the feeder will pay for itself in a year.

Lots of people have lots to say about diet feeders. For people like us who have never owned a diet feeder, we could have been very easily put off buying one. But we did a lot of research and a lot of planning for what we want to do and seeing diet feeders in action and seeing the figures from farmers using diet feeders (as opposed to the figures from the guys trying to sell the feeders), it's the only way to do what we want to do.

The other thing is that there are plenty of people out there giving advice about diet feeders who have never owned one. It's like getting marriage advice from a priest! He'll tell you what he believes but not what he has experienced!

You have to have a plan and you have to look at your figures carefully. For the man finishing 20 or 30 bullocks, he was better invest in more facilities or land improvements to keep more stock than buy one.

Like everything you have to do the sums and invest wisely. The only thing I am sure of is that money gains no value when it's sewn into the mattress

We were told during the early-mid noughties and loads have regreted not having left it in cash.

Everybody has to look at cost analysis I find that the most profitable cattle to finish are those that go off grass and meal. Winter finishing is a tough game. I know a few lads that are not very efficent but highly profitable, it is in the trading side that they make money.

Unless you are handling large amounts of straights it is hard to justify a diet feeder. I consider that buying ration at the right price, and making goodish quality silage is better. This idea to chase expansion at any cost and that efficency and throughput will add to profit is often not the case. Neither will it always save time.

The argument that just because you have not had one you cannot reason against it will not stand up in my book. The same could be said about outwintering pads I looked at them in the mid noughties however considered that with oil prices that timber would increse in price. It is the ability to cost and look at value that create's profit and wealth

awaywithyou

Each to their own on this matter but I know we wouldn't be without one ever again....

We have ours 8 yrs and only this year we started using the scale(don't ask!!) we're mixing meal with the silage...

The advantages well they've all been mentioned... Not carrying buckets.. Not enough feed space for all cattle etc. etc.

2 more adv are the silage is well broken/loosened up easier for cattle especially younger ones to eat....

Th barrier is cleaned every morning by the weanlings and cows... Only cattle in yard not fed by feeder are in calf heifers and its the only barrier that has to be cleaned by loader....

I think that with it we're using less silage... And No silage going to waste...

Would not be without it... The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages...

keep going

I cantget my head around spending that kind of money for 100 drystock.meal dispencer looks a good job if you have enough feed space.grab on the front dispencer on the back and no messing

derferjam

andrew_ob wrote: »

Hi guys,

Have recently become far more involved in our family farm and am looking at investing some money in new machinery and equipment.

In the next year or so I plan to have put up a split meal bin with auger, buy a diet feeder, along with a second tractor to run feeder. Currently have a tractor with a loader which I am also thinking of selling and replacing with a tele handler, as most of our work is loader work (apart from odd bit of topping), but this trade is not essential and off topic.

We feed in the region of 80 - 100 beef cattle (heifers and bullocks), ranging from 12 months to about 30 months.

Most of the silage would be pit silage (approx 25 acres) with approx 14 acres second cut in bales (chopped). We also feed meal (currently Stewards Beef Nuts) to all cattle while housed. Our silage is of very good quality

I would like to add at least straw to the diet, as well as possible change in meal.

to make all this easier I would like to buy a 2nd hand diet feeder and second tractor. any suggestions on type of feeder (tub or paddle, brand etc, what to look for/avoid) and also what kind of tractor would run it (2nd hand - relatively cheap)

Hope you can offer some insights and some of your experiences!
Thanks!!

your talking a lot of money but I think the best investment you will ever make is in a diet feeder we have one four years now and not for god nor man would I do with out it.
Its a thing once you start using you will wonder how you worked with out it. However straw is hard on it and you need to keep well greased if using straw esp. But its such a saving in the long run.

freedominacup

Personally speaking I wouldn't be without a diet feeder for any type of stock from high yielding dairy cows to light weanlings. Contrary to pudsey I think it's easy to get quantities right, might be more difficult with bales but in my experience easy enough. When you're used to it there is very little waste cattle will generally have enough in between 16 and 20 hours with feed in front of them.

There is very little savings with straights unless you are dealling with very large numbers and are well setup with feed bays etc. To get the max from straights you need to be able to collect from port yourself (I don't even know if they allow people other than licensed hauliers into the port areas anymore) or be able to handle truckloads collected ex-port. If you are getting deliveries of smaller batches from a miller/co-op you'd be better of to get him to make the ration you want as you are already going to have to pay him for collecting at port, handling in his yard and delivering to yours. The few quid extra to mill what you want would not go very far on paying for storage facilities and the waste that ensues from having too much complication.

The exception to the straights argument is farm stored grain bought off the combine, I think that it is generally good value and storage is not expensive esp for crimped grain. Get a protein blend from your miller and you can balance rations to suit individual groups. 4 ingredients other than min/vit supplements is enough. Never buy anything to feed through a diet feeder that comes in a bag other than min/vit supplements, they are designed to bulk up a salesmans commision not your bank account and generally have the opposite effect on your available cash.

I'm feeding around 150 head here in an hour. We do 2 base mixes here, one for milkers and culls. The milkers are getting around 23kg DM and the culls around 16kg. The second one is for drystock including dry cows. I feed the younger animals back out the feeder and add in 1.5kgs/head of straw + minerals for dry cows mix and back in.

For me it's less waste and better performance. We don't have in-parlour feeders never did so I can justify the cost to some extent on that basis. What would a 10 tonne bin, augers and even pig feeders cost me for a 15 unit parlour?

Insp. Harry Callahan

Bought a JF tub feeder here 3 years ago, for us it was 1 of the best buys on the farm, mix 3 batches in an hour daily, feeding 150 or so cattle.
Load it up with a matbro telehandler, find feeding cattle is now enjoyable and not a chore. Would feed a bit of straw here so handy for that, chopped straw and silage a lot quicker mixed than none chopped.
No more bagging and carrying meal bags about the place.
No waste of silage either.also if am away for a day or 2 the old man can feed away and no guilt feeling that I was leaving him with graping/ carrying meal
about.
Defo would use at least an extra fill of diesel over the winter though.
Maybe doesn't suit everyone but for us a great purchase

reilig

As I said, you have to do the sums and ensure that it will work for you. We figured out years ago that winter finishing cattle on silage and meal was loss making for us.

We now have access to cheaper feed - hence the feeder.

I'm in favour of progress. Like the diet feeder if I took everyone's advice I'd do nothing and there would be nothing there for the next generation but a few worthless notes in the mattres and a warning not to spend anything.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

We were told during the early-mid noughties and loads have regreted not having left it in cash.

Everybody has to look at cost analysis I find that the most profitable cattle to finish are those that go off grass and meal. Winter finishing is a tough game. I know a few lads that are not very efficent but highly profitable, it is in the trading side that they make money.

Unless you are handling large amounts of straights it is hard to justify a diet feeder. I consider that buying ration at the right price, and making goodish quality silage is better. This idea to chase expansion at any cost and that efficency and throughput will add to profit is often not the case. Neither will it always save time.

The argument that just because you have not had one you cannot reason against it will not stand up in my book. The same could be said about outwintering pads I looked at them in the mid noughties however considered that with oil prices that timber would increse in price. It is the ability to cost and look at value that create's profit and wealth

reilig

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see where it can make savings of €40 per animals unless your starting of a high cost base already, which if you are isnt an accurate reflection of the cost saving. That being said I wouldnt be without a feeder. Is that a new strautman you have bought? one of the ones that is very low to the ground? or am I thinking of another make. Your new project sounds interesting for you and I hope it works out. Sharing a feeder makes great sense but usually its impossible to get like working farms side by side

We believe that we can make more than €40 in savings through sourcing a cheaper alternative feed that my business partner has access to. We will be mixing in a small amount of silage or straw as well as small amounts of meal. Hence the need for the feeder.

What we bought is a newer version of this;

Muckit

Ah l think we're only hearing half the story and because of that jumping to conclusions. We need a boards f&f 'office party' to hear it all!!

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

Ah l think we're only hearing half the story and because of that jumping to conclusions. We need a boards f&f 'office party' to hear it all!!

You organise it and we'll be there. I'm partial to smoked salmon and caviar!

Sharpshooter82

reilig wrote: »

You organise it and we'll be there. I'm partial to smoked salmon and caviar!

a tin of roses will do me :P

redzerologhlen

reilig wrote: »

You organise it and we'll be there. I'm partial to smoked salmon and caviar!

That's a far cry from a lump of bacon and cabbage!!

F.D

delaval wrote: »

One of the best reasons I've heard for getting a feeder, it would really make your wife's life a lot easier thus improving your cattle.

Have you considered a rear or loader mounted hydraulic meal feeder. You could see them on the Tanco website

Yea i have considered one of those meal feaders but its the shed design is the problem, loads of space for stock to lie but not enough feed space, if i was right i should knock down the back wall of the shed and feed both sides
but there would be a big cost to that also
weather i like it or not i am a part time farmer and rely on my wife and parents to help out, and if they are it needs to be as easy as possible

bob charles

reilig wrote: »

We believe that we can make more than €40 in savings through sourcing a cheaper alternative feed that my business partner has access to. We will be mixing in a small amount of silage or straw as well as small amounts of meal. Hence the need for the feeder.

What we bought is a newer version of this;

just be careful on the by products side of things, nearly everything is over priced at the moment compared to grain, as lads think they are getting something cheap when its a co product thus a big demand. The most expensive stuff you ever hauled is water, access can dry up over night. thankfully not using any of them anymore as just too much messing

49801

What about a feed like Alkalage by treating whole crop with urea.
Would it be suitable to feed direct as a stand alone balanced feed for beef cattle?
Thus would not need further mixing/equipment at all?

reilig

bob charles wrote: »

just be careful on the by products side of things, nearly everything is over priced at the moment compared to grain, as lads think they are getting something cheap when its a co product thus a big demand. The most expensive stuff you ever hauled is water, access can dry up over night. thankfully not using any of them anymore as just too much messing

Without giving too much information, my business partner has access to a number of by products for free from his business within 5km of the cattle yard. It's a no brainer really. Our side of the bargain is to provide the sheds, the silage, the meal and the land for slurry spreading.

bob charles

reilig wrote: »

Without giving too much information, my business partner has access to a number of by products for free from his business within 5km of the cattle yard. It's a no brainer really. Our side of the bargain is to provide the sheds, the silage, the meal and the land for slurry spreading.

Contract finishing so? best of luck

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Contract finishing so? best of luck

Wouldn't you be better off at it to some degree? Someone elses cattle, someone elses risk. Your yards, your feed, X price per day for feed, labour, facilities and expertise plus a margin? Maybe not all the time and certainly not all the stock in the place but.....

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Wouldn't you be better off at it to some degree? Someone elses cattle, someone elses risk. Your yards, your feed, X price per day for feed, labour, facilities and expertise plus a margin? Maybe not all the time and certainly not all the stock in the place but.....

way to go:rolleyes:

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

way to go:rolleyes:

Fair enough. TBH what I know about buying finishing cattle/beef cattle in general could be written in big letters on the back of a small stamp.

moy83

freedominacup wrote: »

Fair enough. TBH what I know about buying finishing cattle/beef cattle in general could be written in big letters on the back of a small stamp.

Id say if you went that route , the margin would totally be squeezed more than it already is . Is this the way McDonald's work in America ?

bob charles

moy83 wrote: »

Id say if you went that route , the margin would totally be squeezed more than it already is . Is this the way McDonald's work in America ?

well if offers allot of positives for both sides. You can own the land and make your margin out feeding the cattle without having the risk that the cattle lose money/die/ and god knows what else. For the finisher it offers a fixed price finishing cost. Grain would be supplied by the finisher which could be up to 50% of the diet and the rest by the farmer.

Sharpshooter82

freedominacup wrote: »

Wouldn't you be better off at it to some degree? Someone elses cattle, someone elses risk. Your yards, your feed, X price per day for feed, labour, facilities and expertise plus a margin? Maybe not all the time and certainly not all the stock in the place but.....

FIL does that over the winter

6480

reilig wrote: »

Without giving too much information, my business partner has access to a number of by products for free from his business within 5km of the cattle yard. It's a no brainer really. Our side of the bargain is to provide the sheds, the silage, the meal and the land for slurry spreading.

is all the by products safe and will there be a treat to the food chain later , know of a waste recyling place with farming roots that started something like what you are talking and it all ended nasty and the shiny new tub diet feeder now for sale

reilig

6480 wrote: »

, know of a waste recyling place with farming roots that started something like what you are talking and it all ended nasty and the shiny new tub diet feeder now for sale

That's a very general assumption to make - especially when I didn't give details of what I am doing - other than buying a feeder

Rest assured that it's a byproduct that we will be feeding, fully legal, licensed and traceable - feeding waste is another matter!

andrew_ob

Thanks everyone for all the replies, lot of information there!

In terms of the investment in it, we currently have a tractor that we bought to have a loader, worth around €26,000, that is completely paid off. The idea would be sell that, buy a second hand tractor for around the €6000 mark to drive diet feeder, have been looking at tele handlers (as most of our work is loader work) at around the €11-13000, the remaining then on a second hand diet feeder (with possible extra investment), and also then putting up a meal bin. So all in all cash investment would hopefully be less then €6000. we would be buying cheaper meal then what we are currently.

We also have the current problem of not all cattle fitting at the barrier so strongest get majority of the meal. Silage wise this is not a problem as they are fed daily and are never short, so there is always plenty in front of them.

Zr105

andrew_ob wrote: »

Thanks everyone for all the replies, lot of information there!

In terms of the investment in it, we currently have a tractor that we bought to have a loader, worth around €26,000, that is completely paid off. The idea would be sell that, buy a second hand tractor for around the €6000 mark to drive diet feeder, have been looking at tele handlers (as most of our work is loader work) at around the €11-13000, the remaining then on a second hand diet feeder (with possible extra investment), and also then putting up a meal bin. So all in all cash investment would hopefully be less then €6000. we would be buying cheaper meal then what we are currently.

We also have the current problem of not all cattle fitting at the barrier so strongest get majority of the meal. Silage wise this is not a problem as they are fed daily and are never short, so there is always plenty in front of them.

If my maths is right your talkin about putting 7k +cash to the feeder which should get you a reasonably good wagon handy enough, but the thing id say is dont put to much to the feeder and add a bit more to the loader budget, by the sounds of it you'd be relying on the loader a fair bit all year round wereas the feeder is a few months of the year!
If the feeder works out you can change it up after a year or 2 handy enough, but loaders around the 11-13k mark are well worked at this stage unfortunatly, or atleast any I've seen around that money have been anyways...

freedominacup

Zr105 wrote: »

If my maths is right your talkin about putting 7k +cash to the feeder which should get you a reasonably good wagon handy enough, but the thing id say is dont put to much to the feeder and add a bit more to the loader budget, by the sounds of it you'd be relying on the loader a fair bit all year round wereas the feeder is a few months of the year!
If the feeder works out you can change it up after a year or 2 handy enough, but loaders around the 11-13k mark are well worked at this stage unfortunatly, or atleast any I've seen around that money have been anyways...

At that money be very careful. A transmission re-build for a JCB teleporter could set you back up to €9,000. It's the biggest thing likely to be/go wrong but very common.

Zr105

freedominacup wrote: »

At that money be very careful. A transmission re-build for a JCB teleporter could set you back up to €9,000. It's the biggest thing likely to be/go wrong but very common.

Thats exactly why i was saying to put more money i the loader and less to the diet feeder!