Leinster's worst SH import

Stephen Keogh??? What?

The guy was an absolute rock for us!

.ak

Buer wrote: »

Nacewa was excellent after he came back from his broken arm in his first season. He was an ever present in the back three in the last few months and deservedly so. His performance in the HEC semi was excellent.

Was 2009 his first season?

If so I can't see how anyone could say he was a poor singing in the first year. He was a revelation towards the end of the season, and the only times he looked bad was when he had broken his arm and when he was put into 10 or 12.

molloyjh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stephen Keogh??? What?

The guy was an absolute rock for us!

This. Always had loads of time for him. He was the epitome of the squad player. Not terribly spectacular like Rocky or SOB but a very fine, solid player who you could always rely on. Every squad needs players like him. I'd class Dundon as being quite similar tbh.

BBDBB

Buer wrote: »

Nacewa was excellent after he came back from his broken arm in his first season. He was an ever present in the back three in the last few months and deservedly so. His performance in the HEC semi was excellent.

what did you think of his performance at 10 in his first season?

considering he was bought from the Crusaders as a 10, a position he'd played in 2006 and 2007 keeping the initially injured Luke McAllister on the sidelines

DeDoc

Tony Goldfinch must be high up there - although to be fair, he may have been signed as much by a club (Blackrock?) as the province...

former legend

BBDBB wrote: »

what did you think of his performance at 10 in his first season?

considering he was bought from the Crusaders as a 10, a position he'd played in 2006 and 2007 keeping the initially injured Luke McAllister on the sidelines

He was signed as a utility-back and Cheika never intended him to be a full-time 10.

The difference between the role of a 10 in Super Rugby and that of a 10 in the Celtic League of 2008 was enormous. Nacewa did just fine as out-half for Leinster until it came to kicking for field position, something he probably wasn't used to with the Blues. His general play was excellent.

Would we have won the HC that season without him? Probably not. I'm embarrassed that he has even been mentioned on this thread.

irishbucsfan

BBDBB wrote: »

what did you think of his performance at 10 in his first season?

considering he was bought from the Crusaders as a 10, a position he'd played in 2006 and 2007 keeping the initially injured Luke McAllister on the sidelines

He never played for Crusaders, and never played with Luke McAllister. And also he wasn't signed as a 10, he had played there and Leinster were short at 10 when he arrived, but Cheika didn't bring him in to specifically play 10.

Edit: sorry I'm wrong, McAllister was still playing for the Blues in Nacewa's last season, he went to England after that

nc6000

Deleted User wrote: »

poor Berquist was another failure, though injury inflicted failure as opposed to poor rugby.

Galarza, Sykes definitely abject failures too in recent times.

Berquist didn't get to play much, look what happened to his knee......

Buer

BBDBB wrote: »

what did you think of his performance at 10 in his first season?

considering he was bought from the Crusaders as a 10, a position he'd played in 2006 and 2007 keeping the initially injured Luke McAllister on the sidelines

I thought he was decent in a couple of games and poor to mediocre in a couple. I recall he played with a broken arm for a few minutes against the Ospreys after slotting a couple of drops to win us the game.

He only played a handful of games there. His contributions later in the season vastly outweigh any shortcomings at outhalf (which are not as significant as you seem to be indicating, I think we won all but the Wasps game with him there).

His being mentioned in this regard, even in respect of his opening season, is absurd.

Buer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stephen Keogh??? What?

The guy was an absolute rock for us!

He was very unlucky not to be capped on the tour to Argentina in 2007. A really intelligent player who was fantastic around the squad and took on a leadership role for the younger lads as captain of the A side.

His first couple of seasons were great. He kept Gleeson out of the side at times. Unfortunately, he didn't kick on and guys like Elsom, McLaughlin and SOB all emerged.

BBDBB

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He never played for Crusaders, and never played with Luke McAllister. And also he wasn't signed as a 10, he had played there and Leinster were short at 10 when he arrived, but Cheika didn't bring him in to specifically play 10.

Edit: sorry I'm wrong, McAllister was still playing for the Blues in Nacewa's last season, he went to England after that

My apologies, in my rush I didn't read properly before posting re where it was, it should have read the Blues. However he was playing at 10 when he left the Blues and in doing so was keeping out Luke McAllister, who had recovered from injury.

Whatever title he was signed as, utility back or 10, he was playing for the Blues as 10, Cheika played him at 10 when he first arrived. He was poor in that position at that time, he struggled, he made mistakes in both decision making and execution. Im sorry if that offends the memory of what he became, but its what happened.

irishbucsfan

BBDBB wrote: »

My apologies, in my rush I didn't read properly before posting re where it was, it should have read the Blues. However he was playing at 10 when he left the Blues and in doing so was keeping out Luke McAllister, who had recovered from injury.

Whatever title he was signed as, utility back or 10, he was playing for the Blues as 10, Cheika played him at 10 when he first arrived. He was poor in that position at that time, he struggled, he made mistakes in both decision making and execution. Im sorry if that offends the memory of what he became, but its what happened.

That's not true, when McAllister came back from injury he went back to 10 and Nacewa played a bit of 12 and 13 as well as 15.

justsomebloke

ye CJ would be up there for me aswell. For me his attitude at the end of his stint was horrendous as he just didn't give a carp and you could see it in his game and for me that for me just puts him in another category completely to people who just didn't click for what ever reasons.

The problem for a lot of players being mentioned here is the expectation fans have on imports due to how lucky we have been in regards to foreign signings and so regardless of how good a player actually is before coming here there is a HUGH expectation on them to turn into another Isa, Ollie or Stan.

The fact that people have mentioned Sykes and Bent, who were only ever brought in a project players speaks volumes to the unrealistic expectations of people.

Also Berquist can't be in the list as well as he never got a chance as he was ruled out for so long and in the interim Madigan has cemented himself as a very close number 2 to sexton so he was relegated to 'A' games as he was never going to be needed by Leinster

former legend

justsomebloke wrote: »

ye CJ would be up there for me aswell. For me his attitude at the end of his stint was horrendous as he just didn't give a carp and you could see it in his game and for me that for me just puts him in another category completely to people who just didn't click for what ever reasons.

Wasn't there some comment about "I don't owe Leinster anything"?

Will be interesting to see how he fits in at London Irish.

BBDBB

Buer wrote: »

I thought he was decent in a couple of games and poor to mediocre in a couple. I recall he played with a broken arm for a few minutes against the Ospreys after slotting a couple of drops to win us the game.

He only played a handful of games there. His contributions later in the season vastly outweigh any shortcomings at outhalf (which are not as significant as you seem to be indicating, I think we won all but the Wasps game with him there).

His being mentioned in this regard, even in respect of his opening season, is absurd.

Thanks for the honesty, I must have missed the decent performances or maybe Im being harsh, though that's not like me. Maybe Im only remembering the worst highlights, but I do recall the horror at some of the errors and thinking jeez, who the feck is this guy? why have they signed him? he's rubbish. I will happily concede that he later became one of Leinsters finest back 3 players.



To be honest, what Im finding absurd is the reaction Im getting to a fairly blatant (imo) and innocuous comment, particularly on a thread designed to name the worst Leinster SH import. Particularly when Ive offered nothing but praise and admiration of him as a back 3 player thereafter. I take it no one disagrees with that part of my assessment?

Buer

former legend wrote: »

Wasn't there some comment about "I don't owe Leinster anything"?

Will be interesting to see how he fits in at London Irish.

There was but it was taken out of context. He was asked directly if he thought he owed Leinster. His reply was along the lines of "I've felt guilty not being able to play for Leinster while injured but I don't feel like I owe them anything".

Which is fair enough given that was mid contract. It was a set up by the journalist.

hahashake

WeeBushy wrote: »

No way. He came to us after playing a level below the Rabo, had no preseason and was parachuted straight into the Irish team, where he showed up pretty well. This created an unfair amount of expectation on a player who wasn't up to speed. He's a solid squad player, which is what he was signed for in the first place. I'm perfectly content with Bent so far.

And whoever mentioned Keogh is so far off the mark. He was a magnificent squad player to have. He fulfilled the roll that Auva'a played last year, filled in when internationals were away, and covered injuries, and was a steady pair of hands. I was sad to see him go as I thought he was an important squad player at the time.

We need those kind of guys. If they aren't from Ireland and aren't shining week in week out people see them as flops, when in fact they are doing exactly what they were brought in to do.

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ah come on. The guy was a bit-part SXV player, and played ITM for Taranaki. He was promoted (not his fault) to Ireland way too prematurely, but is slowly beginning to find his feet again. He'll be a solid squad option for Leinster, which is exactly what you could expect given the level he had achieved in NZ.

TBH I was just curious about the response.;)

For me, van der Linde was probably the biggest disappointment.

This was a guy who's now racked up 75 caps for possibly the most consistently physical pack in world rugby, particularly in the mid 2000's when he got most of his caps. He'd just won a world cup final at tight head.

He also arrived at a time when the slagging and the alleged frailty of the Leinster pack was at it's peak, and I really thought he would be the guy to turn that around and give us a scrum to build around.

I know a lot of the reason it didn't work out was due to the recurring toe injury, but nonetheless, I imagine he was on big money and he just was never able to deliver on what was hoped.

Owen Finegan was 34 by the time he arrived, and to be honest I think everyone suspected his best days were already long behind him.

For what it's worth though, Leinster have way way way more hits than misses in terms of recruitment. Isa Nacewa, Rocky Elsom, Felipe Contepomi, Brad Thorn, Chris Whitaker, Stan Wright, Nathan Hines, Heinke van der Merwe, and Richardt Strauss were all incredibly astute signings who played a huge part in the success we enjoyed the last few years.

[Jackass]

Anyone saying Bent hasn't seen him this season.

The problems he had when he first arrived were three fold.

1/ He was seen as a tighthead when in fairness, only had one season in professional rugby on that side of the scrum

2/ He came in cold, didn't have a pre-season. Having had a pre-season this season and settled, he looks a much better player.

3/ He was parachuted into the national team straight off the plane (and did well in fairness), but given the whirlwind nature, was sort of unfair on him. To be fair, there's no denying how absolutely mullered he got though. Anyone who saw the Ireland A v Saxons game will cringe in their seat thinking about the scrums in that game.

I actually think Bent will have a long future at Leinster as a squad "sweeper", dropping in as strong cover behind the likes of McGrath / Healy and Ross / Moore (and possibly Furlong). Great squad player to have, very capable and versatile, not seen as first choice I don't think.

Ross was pretty bad to average when he first came to Leinster (seem to remember he was 3rd choice behind CJ and Wright?) and Stan Wright was a burger boy when he first came over and went on to become a cult hero (and a starting Heineken Cup winning one at that!)

Buer

Just for a bit more information, Finnegan came here after being at Newcastle for a fairly awful spell. They wanted rid but he was still under contract. Leinster took him off their hands for a cut price where they only had to pay a part of his salary with Newcastle still paying the remainder; they just wanted to cut their losses.

He was pretty poor during his time here but he was only here for a short spell and cost little. Cheika had a bit of a blind spot for him as an old mate.

Barzipan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIjrQJ0b5Ds

Was impressed with Tuqiri's defensive positioning, pace and commitment for this try!

Snickers Man

eyeball kid wrote: »

Seem to remember some Rocky guy a couple of years back.

Yeahhh!!!! Rocky Awesome!!!

eyeball kid wrote: »

Only stuck around a year,

That's true, but then we all knew that when he signed.

eyeball kid wrote: »

didn't do much.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Guy was a tank. Especially in the Heineken Cup Final. (number 1) Wouldn't have him as the greatest Leinster SH signing because I agree that a little longevity with the team is required for that but while he was here, he was great, apart from the first couple of games he played when he was still jet lagged.

gaius c

Barzipan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIjrQJ0b5Ds

Was impressed with Tuqiri's defensive positioning, pace and commitment for this try!

Impressive recovery from having your scrum demolished.

Snickers. I do believe you've been wooshed.

Heroditas

Buer wrote: »

Just for a bit more information, Finnegan came here after being at Newcastle for a fairly awful spell. They wanted rid but he was still under contract. Leinster took him off their hands for a cut price where they only had to pay a part of his salary with Newcastle still paying the remainder; they just wanted to cut their losses.

He was pretty poor during his time here but he was only here for a short spell and cost little. Cheika had a bit of a blind spot for him as an old mate.

Very good summary. Also I personally feel that while he was poor, he wasn't as bad as a lot of people made out. To be fair, the whole pack was pretty abysmal that season, particularly after Jennings and Cullen had gone.
He did a job and had one or two interesting cameos where you could see he still had a very keen rugby brain but didn't have the legs anymore.

Vermaas tops the list for me.
Gomez follows closely behind with Fosi Pala'amo on his heels.

Blured

Snickers Man wrote: »

Are you ****ing kidding me? Guy was a tank. Especially in the Heineken Cup Final. (number 1) Wouldn't have him as the greatest Leinster SH signing because I agree that a little longevity with the team is required for that but while he was here, he was great, apart from the first couple of games he played when he was still jet lagged.

Think your sarcasm detector might be on the blink

glasnost22

Cameron Jowitt was a very questionable character. He had way too much hair.

[Jackass]

Barzipan wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIjrQJ0b5Ds

Was impressed with Tuqiri's defensive positioning, pace and commitment for this try!

FYP

That's probably "better" than this one..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA58V92G6tA

But it's got nothing on this little gem...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVhDs_TpHcE

ScissorPaperRock

glasnost22 wrote: »

Cameron Jowitt was a very questionable character. He had way too much hair.

The five years between the time you joined boards.ie and made your first post was building up to this mind blowing contribution :pac:

glasnost22

Haha so true, better late than never eh...

Larbre34

The SH lad I most respect is Heinke, apart from being a real talent in his position, he committed to the cause for several years without running off home for Christmas like Afoa, his influence on younger props is bearing fruit this year - the kind of guy whose effect was only properly understood when he was gone.

Worst SH player? Newland probably. Biggest let down against expectations? Thats a tougher question, we dont really have a Christian Cullen calamity to compare to, but right now its Bent. CJ had a tough time with injury and never became invaluable, but was massive in Cup games.

justsomebloke

It seems the worst thing Bent ever did was take his chance of a lifetime to play international rugby and have the game of his career at it.

The guy had only 11 caps in Super rugby and was an ITM level player. The only reason we signed him was cause he was IQ and the NIQ rules meant we were f***ed for players in that position.

Also with him still playing he has a chance to fulfil some of the over expectations alot of people have for him

jamiedav2011

Larbre34 wrote: »

The SH lad I most respect is Heinke, apart from being a real talent in his position, he committed to the cause for several years without running off home for Christmas like Afoa, his influence on younger props is bearing fruit this year - the kind of guy whose effect was only properly understood when he was gone.

Worst SH player? Newland probably. Biggest let down against expectations? Thats a tougher question, we dont really have a Christian Cullen calamity to compare to, but right now its Bent. CJ had a tough time with injury and never became invaluable, but was massive in Cup games.

Bent the biggest letdown?!
What were you expecting from him?!

justsomebloke

justsomebloke wrote: »

It seems the worst thing Bent ever did was take his chance of a lifetime to play international rugby and have the game of his career at it.

The guy had only 11 caps in Super rugby and was an ITM level player. The only reason we signed him was cause he was IQ and the NIQ rules meant we were f***ed for players in that position.

Also with him still playing he has a chance to fulfil some of the over expectations alot of people have for him

Yeah I agree with that. Bent suffers as a result of the ridiculous media hype that was generated prior to his arrival. He can't be blamed for that.

molloyjh

justsomebloke wrote: »

It seems the worst thing Bent ever did was take his chance of a lifetime to play international rugby and have the game of his career at it.

The guy had only 11 caps in Super rugby and was an ITM level player. The only reason we signed him was cause he was IQ and the NIQ rules meant we were f***ed for players in that position.

Also with him still playing he has a chance to fulfil some of the over expectations alot of people have for him

He was never really a tight-head either was he? He was always more of a loose-head AFAIK. Add to that the lack of a pre-season last season, the step up in level, the totally different emphasis on scrums in the NH and the ridiculous levels of expectations placed on him because he was being touted as an international from the get-go and he's probably the SH import I feel most sorry for. It's really been a lose-lose situation for him from the start in some ways. If he can step in and be a decent squad player then that's fine. We've Ross and Moore at TH with Furlong coming through and then Healy and McGrath at LH with Bent as back-up and O'Connell coming through. Bent should do a job for us and we should be happy enough with that really.

Larbre34

molloyjh wrote: »

He was never really a tight-head either was he?

I'm not blaming Bent for setting his own expectations, but whoever signed him as a tighthead prospect can be.

jamiedav2011

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm not blaming Bent for setting his own expectations, but whoever signed him as a tighthead prospect can be.

Again, what were you expecting of an ITM LH turned TH signed mid season?

Buer

To be honest, all this thread shows is that Leinster have been very lucky/astute in their SH signings. VDL is probably the only guy that came here with a reputation and failed to deliver but that was largely down to injuries and his career never recovered. Finnegan is potentially the other but was pushing 35 and cost little.

The bulk of signings were low level guys who came to little fan fare and little was expected of. Guys like Newland, Fosi, Gomez and Vermass were small time players on buttons. Nothing ventured and nothing lost.

Then there were guys like Jowitt, Beirne, Warner and Bryce Williams that did a pretty decent job and were solid when appearing in the HEC.

After that, they're mostly very successful signings like Holwell, Contepomi, Elsom, Nacewa, Whits, Wright and Gopperth who have done excellently.

can't forget Spooner!

former legend

Deleted User wrote: »

can't forget Spooner!

Is that a reply to Buer's posts about the SH successes, or an addition to the contenders for 'worst import'?

He's in there with Warner imo.

Certainly not a disaster

gaius c

glasnost22 wrote: »

Cameron Jowitt was a very questionable character. He had way too much hair.

Remembered for a glorious game against Toulouse but played like a backpacker for the rest of it. Got a Super 14 contract when he went south, didn't he?

Buer

He was very solid for about his first 18 months. He kept some good players out of the side. For a bloke of his size, he was very agile with good hands. I reckon his presence was a factor in Miller quitting before time.

Got a gig with the Waratahs but was cut before this season I think.

gaius c

Buer wrote: »

He was very solid for about his first 18 months. He kept some good players out of the side. For a bloke of his size, he was very agile with good hands. I reckon his presence was a factor in Miller quitting before time.

Got a gig with the Waratahs but was cut before this season I think.

Nah. Miller was bedevilled with injuries and just couldn't stay fit. Saw him after he finished playing rugby and couldn't get over how massive he was. Too big really and it probably contributed to the injury problems.

Thomas D

Wow just reading Eric Millers wikipedia page. He played intercounty football for Dublin after retiring! All 17 stone of him.

Heroditas

Thomas D wrote: »

Wow just reading Eric Millers wikipedia page. He played intercounty football for Dublin after retiring! All 17 stone of him.

That doesn't seem right. I know he played for one of the senior clubs but I'm almost sure he didn't make the inter-county team.

I remember playing against Wesley in school and them having a freak of nature at 10 that day. Singlehandedly dragged them to victory. He could do everything - kick, carry, tackle, barge through opposition. Unstoppable.
It was Millet.

Thomas D

Ah, development squad. Classic wikipedia.

http://www.hoganstand.com/Dublin/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=69898

gaius c

Thomas D wrote: »

Wow just reading Eric Millers wikipedia page. He played intercounty football for Dublin after retiring! All 17 stone of him.

No. Never played championship football for Dublin. Was a stalwart for Ballyboden St Endas though.

Zico

This thread is the reason I never visit here.