Best electrical smart meter to get?

BenEadir

2011 wrote: »

Just to be clear, in that post Stoner is referring to halogen type GU10 lamps, not the LED type.

My mistake, thanks for correcting me.

So, with 60 downlighters should I be getting my electrician back to change the transformers and sticking with the WR16 bulbs or have him remove the transformers all together and go with GU10 bulbs?

My (likely incorrect) reading of Stoners post is that the GU10 bulbs don't produce as much light as the MR16's and if I switch I'd have to replace all 60 of my light fittings also as the GU10 bulbs won't fit into my current MR16 downlighters. That's why I'm thinking of sticking with MR16 bulbs but I'm happy to be corrected - again!

Ben

2011

BenThere wrote: »

So, with 60 downlighters should I be getting my electrician back to change the transformers and sticking with the WR16 bulbs or have him remove the transformers all together and go with GU10 bulbs?

There are differnet schools of thought on this.
Like Stoner I feel that it is best to use mains volatge LED lamps that have a GU10 type base.

My (likely incorrect) reading of Stoners post is that the GU10 bulbs don't produce as much light as the MR16's

Stoner's point is that halogen type GU10's do not produce as much light as halogen type MR16's. He is correct, the difference in light output is in the region of 40% (for the same energy consumption).


Very simply put:

GU10 halogen lamps = Bad :mad: -Power consumption generally 50W

GU10 LED lamps = Good -Power consumption generally in the region of 3W. I suggest that you use "warm white".

if I switch I'd have to replace all 60 of my light fittings also as the GU10 bulbs won't fit into my current MR16 downlighters.

In general the light fittings will be fine (if they are flush downlighters such as the one in your earlier photo). Howvere the lamp holders will have to be changed for GU10 types so that LED type GU10 lamps can be installed.

These lamp holders only cost in the region of €3 each.

That's why I'm thinking of sticking with MR16 bulbs

This would mean that you will require an LED driver per light fitting over €10 each I would guess.

BenEadir

Thanks 2011, you are a fountain of knowledge and very helpful. Much appreciated.

So from a purely LED perspective the output of MR16 and GU10 bulbs is the same/similar and the cost of the bulbs is the same/similar. The main difference is that the GU10 bulb has a built in transformer which enables it to take a direct power supply whereas the MR16 requires a transformer to be fitted to each lamp.

If my understanding above is correct my choice is:-

1. Fit 60 new transformers to facilitate MR16 LED's
2. take out the existing transformers and fit GU10's.

#1 requires buying and fitting new transformers which will be expensive whereas #2 requires removing the existing transformers and fitting an inexpensive new bulb fitting.

Sounds like #2 GU10's is a no brainer.

Ben

2011

BenThere wrote: »

So from a purely LED perspective the output of MR16 and GU10 bulbs is the same/similar and the cost of the bulbs is the same/similar.

Pretty much, yes.

The main difference is that the LED GU10 bulb can be connected directly to the mains. Whereas the MR16 requires a transformer LED driver to be fitted to each lamp.

Your choice is:-

1. Fit 60 new transformer LED drivers to facilitate MR16 LED's
2. take out the existing transformers and fit GU10's lamp holders for GU10 LED lamps.

#1 requires buying and fitting new transformer LED drivers which will be expensive whereas #2 requires removing the existing transformers and fitting a inexpensive GU10 lamp holders and GU10 LED lamps.

BenEadir

Moving VERY swiftly along

Turns out my electrician has been experimenting at home with various LED downlighters (all GU10's) over the last 18 months or so. He has some sort of under shelf lighting in a kitchen and broke it into three sections, one for traditional 50W halogen bulbs, and two for various brand LED's i.e. one brand per section. He'd swap them in and out as new products came available or if he had left over bulbs from a job. He was never that happy with them. Said they look ok but don't throw enough light all the way to the ground.

He recently (last 4 months) finished a house renovation where the architect had specified Philips downlighters and he said the difference between them and the other (mostly cheaper) brands he had been trying himself was amazing. They really did a fantastic job almost equivalent to traditional 50W Halogen but the bulbs were €25 a pop :eek: I think these are the ones he spoke about http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008A25WTE/ref=s9_simh_se_p201_d0_i4?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=auto-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0KFRXBA8DWYAW014C1GF&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=240112507&pf_rd_i=871829112761100

Since then Philips have introduced a slightly lower watt (5.5 Vs 6) bulb which has better performance and a lower cost of circa €18 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0088YVZP4/ref=s9_simh_se_p201_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=auto-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0KFRXBA8DWYAW014C1GF&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=240112507&pf_rd_i=871829112761100

As he's the guy who originally fitted my 60 downlighters and I know him socially and through sport he's offering to fit however many of the new GU10 Philips LED bulbs I want, including a new bulb fitting for €20 a downlight all in i.e. including the bulb, fitting and labour on the basis that he keeps all the transformers he takes out which he can then use in small repair jobs he does etc.

Can anyone comment on the offer? Good or bad? the price of those Philips bulbs seems REAL expensive but then there's no point paying less for cheap bulbs and ending up with not enough light.

One option I was thinking of was fitting the Philips bulbs in one room and these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Long-Life-Lamp-Company-replacements/dp/B006UR5IUY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top which are 1/3 the price in a different room and see what the outcome is. Would there be a noticeable difference? I'm sure if I supplied the bulbs he'd fit them including the new bulb fitting for a €5 a downlight.

Who would have thought this would be so complex???

Ben

2011

BenThere wrote: »

Turns out my electrician has been experimenting at home with various LED downlighters (all GU10's) over the last 18 months or so. He has some sort of under shelf lighting in a kitchen and broke it into three sections, one for traditional 50W halogen bulbs, and two for various brand LED's i.e. one brand per section. He'd swap them in and out as new products came available or if he had left over bulbs from a job. He was never that happy with them.

Well then he was using low quality LED lamps. I was not happy with the older LED lamps either, but now I can see that there are excellent LED lamps available at reasnoble prices.

He recently (last 4 months) finished a house renovation where the architect had specified Philips downlighters and he said the difference between them and the other (mostly cheaper) brands he had been trying himself was amazing.

I am not suprised. They are vastly superior to many of the low quality LED lamps (frequently from China).

They really did a fantastic job almost equivalent to traditional 50W Halogen but the bulbs were €25 a pop :eek: I think these are the ones he spoke about

You get what you pay for. However I am sure that they can be purchased for less, check the LED sticky. You could always install cheaper LED lamps in not so important areas, such as Greenlamp @ about €7 each. Reserve the expensive Philips lamps for the kitchen and sitting room.

As he's the guy who originally fitted my 60 downlighters

That was at a time when electricity cost far less per unit and LED lamps were not anything like as good as they are now.

he's offering to fit however many of the new GU10 Philips LED bulbs I want, including a new bulb fitting for €20 a downlight all in i.e. including the bulb, fitting and labour on the basis that he keeps all the transformers he takes out which he can then use in small repair jobs he does etc.

Can anyone comment on the offer? Good or bad?

Sounds very fair to me.

the price of those Philips bulbs seems REAL expensive but then there's no point paying less for cheap bulbs and ending up with not enough light.

One option I was thinking of was fitting the Philips bulbs in one room and these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Long-Life-Lamp-Company-replacements/dp/B006UR5IUY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top which are 1/3 the price in a different room and see what the outcome is. Would there be a noticeable difference?

They look like cheap muck to me. No make stated is a bad sign. You might get lucky, read the LED sticky.

.G.

I have Philips master led non dimmable and they produce great light,very similar to the expensive ones your sparks is suggesting,main difference are mine are 2700K and 4w whereas those are 6w 3000K. I have them in the kitchen,6 in total.They were €9 each a couple of years ago in Eurosales.They have a 15 year lifespan so the economics of switching to LED soon makes perfect sense. The box off them says equivalent to 35w halogen lamp but in reality I find them no different to the 50w's they replaced once you get used to the slightly different colour they are compared to a normal halogen.

I would suggest getting a small number and trying them out in a room before you switch the whole house.

2011

superg wrote: »

I have Philips master led non dimmable and they produce great light,very similar to the expensive ones your sparks is suggesting,main difference are mine are 2700K and 4w whereas those are 6w 3000K. I have them in the kitchen,6 in total.They were €9 each a couple of years ago in Eurosales.They have a 15 year lifespan so the economics of switching to LED soon makes perfect sense. The box off them says equivalent to 35w halogen lamp but in reality I find them no different to the 50w's the replaced once you get used to the slightly different colour they are compared to a normal halogen.

I would suggest getting a small number and trying them out in a room before you switch the whole house.

+1
Good advice.

ted1

superg wrote: »

I have Philips master led non dimmable and they produce great light,very similar to the expensive ones your sparks is suggesting,main difference are mine are 2700K and 4w whereas those are 6w 3000K. I have them in the kitchen,6 in total.They were €9 each a couple of years ago in Eurosales.They have a 15 year lifespan so the economics of switching to LED soon makes perfect sense. The box off them says equivalent to 35w halogen lamp but in reality I find them no different to the 50w's they replaced once you get used to the slightly different colour they are compared to a normal halogen.

I would suggest getting a small number and trying them out in a room before you switch the whole house.

As above I got 4W dimmable Philips master for 8.65 euro from eurosales in oct 2012. Try giving them a call.

You could change between 6 -10 in an hour so all in the price isn't to supply and fit isn't to bad.

As you have so many it might be easier focussing on the most used ones first. The phase 2 could be the rest.

Also the cluster LEDs don't look great.

BenEadir

Thanks everyone,

Going to go with the new 5.5W Philips 50W equivalents I linked to earlier in the main living area (combined kitchen, dining and lounge with a total of 22 downlighters in it) and try some of the highest reviewed generic/cheaper options in the halls /bathrooms etc where the quality of the light isn't so important.

That's the current plan anyway.

You've been very helpful. This is why i love using Boards, fantastic people.

Cheers,

Ben

josip

BenThere wrote: »

Moving VERY swiftly along
...
They really did a fantastic job almost equivalent to traditional 50W Halogen but the bulbs were €25 a pop :eek:

As he's the guy who originally fitted my 60 downlighters and I know him socially and through sport he's offering to fit however many of the new GU10 Philips LED bulbs I want, including a new bulb fitting for €20 a downlight all in i.e. including the bulb, fitting and labour on the basis that he keeps all the transformers he takes out which he can then use in small repair jobs he does etc.

Can anyone comment on the offer? Good or bad?
Ben

Your situation is almost identical to mine except I only had 15 downlights to swap out. I got the 8W dimmable Philips Master Leds from Eurosales at around €25 each to replace 50W low voltage downlights. Glad I didn't go for anything with less lumens. I did the swap out myself and the electrician who originally installed the 50W downlights bought back the 15 sets (transformers, bulbs and holders) from me at €5 a set. There's a big heatsink on the 8W, I don't know about the others, and new holders were needed.