Grinder recommendation.

Vexorg

Hi

I am upgrading from a stove top pot and pre ground coffee to a gaggia classic and beans. I am hoping to get some advice on a grinder.

I perfer milk based drinks, and would like to be able to grind for french press occasionally. Budget is 400 to 600 euro, and would consider paying more. Would be happy to buy a used grinder also.

From what I have read I will get a better coffee by spending more on the grinder, as the classic can make a good espresso. I have narrowed my search down to a mahlkonig vario and vario-w (399 and 550 respectively). Anyone know if the weight based dose (sp?) of the -w is worth the extra. The consistency of the weight base dose sounds good to me.

What other grinders should I consider?

In relation to the gaggia classic, what accessories should I be gathering, tamper cleaning accessories and I suppose the same for the grinder, are there extra bits and pieces that are useful or just nice to have:)

donnacha

I could never justify the extra spend on the weight based models of grinders. I use a vario myself for espresso and will weigh my dose separately before I drop the beans in the hopper for grinding. I then use the same scales to weigh the resulting shot of espresso. A bit like modern cars I'd also be concerned about the weigh functionality acting up in the future and it being another thing you need to get fixed.

The Vario itself is a great and versatile home grinder. I have had to invest in some replacement parts for it since I've owned mine so bear that in mind and consider buying locally from coffeeangel etc as you'll get a great afterservice.

The vario will also do a great job for filter/french press grinding - though you'll lose plenty of beans dialling in between your brew methods so I'd suggest setting aside some of your budget for a good hand grinder or maybe a second hind grinder to use exclusively for french press. (I'll be selling a maestro plus at some stage in Jan :P)

I'll throw another machine out there worth considering for espresso that I'd been reading up about and its the Quamar M80E: http://casabarista.com/espresso-equipment/coffee-grinders/quamar-m80e/

Its been getting some really decent reviews on a few of the coffee forums - seems to be at a similar level to the mazzer mini but at a much more competitive price point. I'd been looking at it myself as I've been considering for some months now relegating my vario to pure filter duties since I upgraded the espresso machine. Of course in the meantime I've convinced myself that its not a big enough step up from the vario and that I need something like a compak k8 which is just ridiculously expensive

Finally I know a few peeps are raving about the comandante hand grinder - it seems fairly suitable for espresso - you can grind about 1g a second. Might also be worth considering: http://www.comandantegrinder.com/

adrian522

I use the Vario for espresso grinding. It's great, micro settings for dialling in and easy to clean.

I don't think the W is worth the extra cash, but drop into coffee angel and discuss with them if you like, they'll give you good advise.

I agree with donnacha above also, switching between french press and espresso will be difficult as you will need to dial in again which can take 2 or 3 shots (or more sometimes) to get right.

I use a porlex for my filter and the Vario for espresso and it works well.

I bought a digital scales in 3FE for €18 and it is great for measuring espresso as the shot is delivered. Much better than paying for the Vario-W.

donnacha

adrian522 wrote: »

I bought a digital scales in 3FE for €18 and it is great for measuring espresso as the shot is delivered. Much better than paying for the Vario-W.

Also worthwhile checking out some of the chinese sites for the 0.01g scales. This is the one I have - current pricing is approx €6.50 delivered. I seem to remember it costing around €5 delivered to my door:D:
http://dx.com/p/precision-digital-pocket-scale-100g-max-0-01g-resolution-15002

Sam the Sham

I'd consider a Eureka Mignon for slightly less than the price of the Vario. Here's a comparative review of both plus a couple of other grinders:

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/compactgrinder1closerlookv3.pdf

Krusty_Clown

donnacha wrote: »

Also worthwhile checking out some of the chinese sites for the 0.01g scales. This is the one I have - current pricing is approx €6.50 delivered. I seem to remember it costing around €5 delivered to my door:D:
http://dx.com/p/precision-digital-pocket-scale-100g-max-0-01g-resolution-15002

I have that same scales (to my eternal shame, I thought it was broken for a couple of days, until I realized I had to remove the black cover ). It's damn fine for the price, but sometimes I notice that the weight will vary, with nothing on the scales. Still, it's plenty accurate enough for me, to weight my 15g of coffee beans. A bargain.

adrian522

donnacha wrote: »

Also worthwhile checking out some of the chinese sites for the 0.01g scales. This is the one I have - current pricing is approx €6.50 delivered. I seem to remember it costing around €5 delivered to my door:D:
http://dx.com/p/precision-digital-pocket-scale-100g-max-0-01g-resolution-15002

I've gotten cheap scales before but in general I find you get what you pay for. Cheaper ones haven't lasted as long and I find the weight jumping around all over the place with nothing being added to the scales.

Gran Hermano

Salter slim scales for GBP10 on Amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000ZNM51O/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Works for me with the Vario.

adrian522

Too big to slide under the portafilter though. I use something similar for filter.

donnacha

adrian522 wrote: »

I've gotten cheap scales before but in general I find you get what you pay for. Cheaper ones haven't lasted as long and I find the weight jumping around all over the place with nothing being added to the scales.

I would have been of the same opinion but ultimately discovered these are the same mini scales that many of the online coffee stores / local shops sell. The one above has lasted me already 18mths service. The odd time I'll get a jump of 0.04g with nothing on it but I can live with that. Prior to owning this scales I'd bought two from some folks I get beans from and neither lasted longer than 6 mths. I think with all these things you can just get lucky on whether they last or not. I use the salter scales for chemex/aeropress/French press.

snollup

Vexorg wrote: »

In relation to the gaggia classic, what accessories should I be gathering, tamper cleaning accessories and I suppose the same for the grinder, are there extra bits and pieces that are useful or just nice to have:)

The first thing I would do with the classic is upgrade the steam wand. While the classic makes good shots the milk from it is not that good. Lot's of stuff on the web on this upgrade. Also, you could consider a VST basket. They are precision engineered and give fantastic consistency to your shots.

You will need a tamper. I think the Gaggia uses 58mm. A knockbox is handy but not a must.

For cleaning the machine you will need a blank basket, like the basket that sits inside the porterfilter but with no holes. This is used to back-flush the machine to clean it. Youtube will show you how!

For cleaning the grinder you can buy a product called Grindz (SP??) that you grind through the machine to remove old coffee oils. I just use white rice, cheaper and seems to work. Again, see youtube.

Most importantly, a few nice coffee subscriptions from the likes of hasbean or square mile!

mandarin

I've also used that dirt-cheap DealExtreme scales for the last year or so, it really is excellent/reliable. Had previously used a pricier Salter scales that gave nothing but trouble (online reviews of both scales confirm my experience).

Vexorg

I have been doing a little reading (lots) and a common phrase I come across on the coffee forums is 'analysis paralysis' and I can understand it exactly where these guys are coming from now.

The Quamar M80E seems to be a great machine and looks really good too, good pricing in the black and silver models in the UK. If one were buying for the office and could have it shipped VAT free, its an even better deal.

The Eureka Mignon looks good, has been around for a while, consistent results and is well priced.

One thing that concerns me about the vario, mentioned in the bellabarista review is the muddiness/taste/texture caused by ultrafines (thats how I read it anyway). When using the stove top pot, I used to get fine sediment at the bottom of my cup which I was not fond of, so I remove the gasket and metal filter from the pot put a small paper filter in and reassemble. This has made a big difference to the taste and enjoyment of the coffee for me, it just tastes smoother.

If this is a thing with the vario, I would probably steer away from it. Anyone else notice these fines with their vario?

If a couple of us were buying grinders at the same time, we may get a better price, anyone else close to buying upgrading a grinder? Not even sure of stores with a good range of options?

Mr Magnolia

There'll always be sediment at the bottom of the cup if you use a steel filter instead of a paper one. I put up with it as I far prefer the flavour. I'd recommend you drop into coffee angel too. Pop the off an email and ask when may be a good time. The owner uses boards occasionally too so make sure you introduce yourself. Great to see you around.

Vexorg

Hi Mr Magnolia, I suppose a certain amount of sediment makes sense when using a metal filter, perhaps when coffee is described as muddy, it sounds like there may be a lot of sediment, to me it sounds unpleasant:)

Will pop coffeeangel a mail and go from there, thanks.

Doodee

I have a vario for many years and it serves me well. There have been a few scares however and I'm not sure the build quality is a lasting one. It 'Ghost grinded' on me once with no explanation. Apart from that it has been good for its purpose.

I got the parents a Quamar t80 a while back and it does feel decent. Will be giving it a proper look over now that I'm at home for Xmas but to date it has worked well. AFAIK it has the same mechanics as the M80, being its predecessor.

I would say that form factor is the decidor between the 2 as the t80 is massive by comparison to the vario.

Vexorg

Just a quick update regarding the grinder, I ended up ordering a manual grinder an OE Pharos.

Trying to get the grind setting correct so that I get 30ml in 25-30 seconds from 21g ground coffee. Do I have that right?

I have the OPV adjusted to 10 bar static (equal to 9 bar with coffee filled basket in portafilter) and am using a non pressurised basket.

donnacha

Vexorg wrote: »

Just a quick update regarding the grinder, I ended up ordering a manual grinder an OE Pharos.

Trying to get the grind setting correct so that I get 30ml in 25-30 seconds from 21g ground coffee. Do I have that right?

I have the OPV adjusted to 10 bar static (equal to 9 bar with coffee filled basket in portafilter) and am using a non pressurised basket.

Maybe go for a bit more volume - there is no right/wrong on it but I'd probably target 37/38ml if I was dosing 21g.

Vexorg

Thanks for that, will try again tomorrow, bit late for espresso now:) I must look for some decaf beans.

Brian

donnacha wrote: »

Also worthwhile checking out some of the chinese sites for the 0.01g scales. This is the one I have - current pricing is approx €6.50 delivered. I seem to remember it costing around €5 delivered to my door:D:
http://dx.com/p/precision-digital-pocket-scale-100g-max-0-01g-resolution-15002

I have one, and it's useful for measuring beans for grinding but doesn't have a high enough range for weighing water.

Vexorg

I bought a version which measures in .1g increments, it is so laggy that it is impossible to use to weigh liquid output, just too slow, so for anyone buying and looking for a faster responding scales, the .01g scales are apparently faster. I ended up buying a salter scales with a very handy built in tray rather than wait another 4 weeks to get a set of scales. I can now weigh out 21g of beans and then weigh out the grind using the little tray.

donnacha

Brian wrote: »

I have one, and it's useful for measuring beans for grinding but doesn't have a high enough range for weighing water.

It has a high enough range for espresso shots which is partly what it services for me - that and weighing out beans. For filter/aeropress/fp brewing I use these salters that I've got for £10 on Amazon - looks like current price is £11.50 but as you'll see they can be got for cheaper:
http://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Salter-Design-Electronic-Platform-Kitchen/product/B000ZNM51O?context=browse

PPC

http://coffeeangel.com/product/hario-drip-scale-timer-vst-2000b/ I got one of these a while ago, its a great all rounder and the timer is nice too.

Muahahaha

I'm using the Aeropress at the moment with just regular off the shelf ground coffee. I was thinking about getting a hand grinder for the Aeropress but just wondering will going this route improve my coffee to a significant degree or is it just an incremental improvement ? And do these hand grinders grind enough for 3-4 coffees at a time or are they a cup at a time job?
Also I seem to remember a hand grinder on here before that fitted inside the Aeropress- handy for travel, anyone know the name of it ?
Finally if I later upgrade to a Gaggia does any hand grinder offer the option to do both press and expresso grounds ?

adrian522

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm using the Aeropress at the moment with just regular off the shelf ground coffee. I was thinking about getting a hand grinder for the Aeropress but just wondering will going this route improve my coffee to a significant degree or is it just an incremental improvement ?

Significant improvement, assuming you get good quality beans.

Muahahaha wrote: »

And do these hand grinders grind enough for 3-4 coffees at a time or are they a cup at a time job?

You should be able to do enough for 2 at least, not sure about doing enough for 4 in one go.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Also I seem to remember a hand grinder on here before that fitted inside the Aeropress- handy for travel, anyone know the name of it ?

Porlex should fit in there.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Finally if I later upgrade to a Gaggia does any hand grinder offer the option to do both press and expresso grounds ?

Not really, it could in theory "do a job" for you, but for espresso you probably want an electric grinder that is easy to make minute adjustments to. Espresso is lot more temperamental and more difficult to get right than aeropress coffee.

snollup

adrian522 wrote: »

Not really, it could in theory "do a job" for you, but for espresso you probably want an electric grinder that is easy to make minute adjustments to. Espresso is lot more temperamental and more difficult to get right than aeropress coffee.

I've used a Hario hand grinder in the past for espresso with good results. A little more work involved in grinding though.

murphyebass

I'll add my 2cents here..

I've used the gaggia MDF for over a year now. Great machine, great espresso grind and not that expensive.

Probably cheaper on a different site. €175 from Gaggia themselves. They have an office in Dublin you can go to buy and collect. This is what I did. I didn't like the idea of it being delivered in case of damage, etc

http://gaggia.ie/machine/gaggia-mdf-grinder/

Muahahaha

Just a question on cleaning grinders- how often? I pull about 5-6 double shots from a Graef burr grinder per day. I have packets of Puly Caff grinder crystals, how often should I be putting them through it? Also apart from running crystals through it is there anything else I should be doing ?