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Liebherr thread

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    marienbad wrote: »
    Yes but why should that vote overrule the wishes of the majority non union members ?
    It should not but there was that was the outcome of the vote, should the non union members have been made vote?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    WikiHow wrote: »
    It may be neither, as mentioned earlier a huge number never voted, if they just joined to vote to save their job what bad is in that?

    They shouldn't have to though. Something like this which has an effect on all employees should be put to all employees to vote on. If a majority of siptu reject, but a majority of workers agree, then surely that should take priority.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    WikiHow wrote: »
    It should not but there was that was the outcome of the vote, should the non union members have been made vote?

    They should have been allowed vote. They're not unless they join the union which is wrong. It's like saying you can't vote for the general election unless you're a paid up member of a political party.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    WikiHow wrote: »
    It should not but there was that was the outcome of the vote, should the non union members have been made vote?

    Were they asked for their views ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    marienbad wrote: »
    Were they asked for their views ?
    I feel they were not,why would the union support the non union members.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    WikiHow wrote: »
    I feel they were not,why would the union support the non union members.

    It shouldn't be the union supporting the non union members, if should be the company asking all employees union or no union if they accept or reject the proposals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    WikiHow wrote: »
    I feel they were not,why would the union support the non union members.

    Just think for a second what you have just posted. Maybe because they share a work place , belong to a community dependant on them.

    I am not aware that (until now) the relationship needs to be adversarial.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Scortho wrote: »
    It shouldn't be the union supporting the non union members, if should be the company asking all employees union or no union if they accept or reject the proposals.
    Why has the company not taken this action?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    marienbad wrote: »
    Just think for a second what you have just posted. Maybe because they share a work place , belong to a community dependant on them.

    I am not aware that (until now) the relationship needs to be adversarial.
    I agree with you, i understand now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    WikiHow wrote: »
    Why has the company not taken this action?

    In the last multinational I worked for it was always the company negotiating with siptu and when it came to voting on pay changes etc, non siptu members were excluded.
    Always found it wrong that non union members didn't get a say, as if the company actually wanted you to be in a union.
    Non union members were always more supportive of the companies position as well which made for heated debates during the day.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭dobman88


    WikiHow wrote: »

    A sure sign the union members are ****ting themselves now. Enjoy dole queue lads.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Axel Lamp


    SuperEagle wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance but when people say that "Killarney would be in trouble" in the event of a plant closure what do they mean exactly? I would have thought Killarney's main source of income is tourism which would presumably be unaffected.

    Hopefully it all gets sorted asap with no job losses.

    It is a common misconception that everyone in killarney works in Tourism (the IDA also seem to believe this). Not everyone in Killarney works in Tourism. Tourism was quite obviously hit by the Global recession etc.

    Liebherr, due to the nature of it's product, wasn't hit as hard.

    And it is quite hard to find a tourism job in Killarney with a salary over €50k (it is reported that the average salary in Liebherr is over €50k)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,563 ✭✭✭brevity


    Killarney, Tralee, killorglin, kenmare, listowel. There are workers from all over Kerry in there.

    They added 70 million directly into the economy last year.

    SIPTU are a disgrace. Have they offered to pay the mortgages of all the workers when Liebherr closes?

    My Dad is a sole trader in Killarney who serves most of Kerry and something like this could really **** things up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 360 ✭✭Bactidiaryl


    Siptu is no longer relevant in society of today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    SuperEagle wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance but when people say that "Killarney would be in trouble" in the event of a plant closure what do they mean exactly? I would have thought Killarney's main source of income is tourism which would presumably be unaffected.

    Hopefully it all gets sorted asap with no job losses.

    Tourism is largely a minimum wage or poorly paid sector,of all the people working in a hotel with say 60 staff,how many would be on 35,000+ per year? Cleaners,porters,waiters,barstaff are all probably 10 euro per hour or less. So out of the 60 or so hypothetical staff probably 5 are in the 35K + bracket.

    Manufacturing,will pay a lot more across all grades.Realistically the Killarney plant should be showcasing their talents and efficiencies to attract new developments and contracts from the parent Company,but instead,this is how they are making the news.

    Bravo,siptu,bra-fukking-vo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭carchaeologist


    Rather downcast view of the situation in the Independant today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    What happened during the last strike if union members are in a minority there? Did the non-union members and suppliers cross the pickets?

    If they do survive this, Liebherr will have a horribly divided workforce I imagine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭xxyyzz


    I think every manufacturing company that has been established as long as Liebherr has a group of individuals working for them that have been around for years and have become belligerent and set in their ways - always putting up roadblocks, always saying no to any proposed changes. Unions are an enabler for this behaviour. However, Liebherr are playing a blinder here in demonising them. I honestly believe if they are going to shut up shop, they have probably been planning it for a while and not because 20% of the workforce are looking for a 2.5% payrise.

    The other alternative is they are going to stay and are using this as an exercise to give this group of workers and the Unions a severe collective kick up the hole as a warning shot.

    There is also an extraordinary amount of wumming in this thread. Can you cut it out and have a sensible debate?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    xxyyzz wrote: »
    However, Liebherr are playing a blinder here in demonising them.
    I think SIPTU are quite adequately demonizing themselves.

    BTW, if -- god forbid -- Leibherr do decide to close, it would be an interesting if forlorn exercise to hold a ballot (by all hundreds of workers and people with jobs in other companies who depend on Leibherr) which called for the people who voted to reject the deal to resign from Leibherr and leave the co-operative people in jobs and then see whether Leibherr would honor that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    xxyyzz wrote: »
    I think every manufacturing company that has been established as long as Liebherr has a group of individuals working for them that have been around for years and have become belligerent and set in their ways - always putting up roadblocks, always saying no to any proposed changes. Unions are an enabler for this behaviour. However, Liebherr are playing a blinder here in demonising them. I honestly believe if they are going to shut up shop, they have probably been planning it for a while and not because 20% of the workforce are looking for a 2.5% payrise.

    The other alternative is they are going to stay and are using this as an exercise to give this group of workers and the Unions a severe collective kick up the hole as a warning shot.

    There is also an extraordinary amount of wumming in this thread. Can you cut it out and have a sensible debate?


    wumming ! what wumming ? I haven't seen it


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Axel Lamp wrote: »
    It is a common misconception that everyone in killarney works in Tourism (the IDA also seem to believe this). Not everyone in Killarney works in Tourism. Tourism was quite obviously hit by the Global recession etc.

    Liebherr, due to the nature of it's product, wasn't hit as hard.

    And it is quite hard to find a tourism job in Killarney with a salary over €50k (it is reported that the average salary in Liebherr is over €50k)

    Wow, I knew it had a reputation as being a great place to work but didn't realise the pay was that high. Will be a big loss if it does go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Kerry Radio this morning Jerry O Sullivan interviewed SIPTU representative Marie Kearney and Senator Marie Moloney, he did a good interview, below is a podcast link to it.

    http://www.radiokerry.ie/podcast_series/kerry-today/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    Figures I heard recently were that Liebherr's wage bill in Killarney was close to the £40m mark and that it had an additional annual spend of around £35m in the local area.

    Also if SIPTU want to see what the new boss is like I found this article. I think SIPTU seem to think that Markus is still in charge and are operating under a host of old assumptions.

    The story that I heard was that a small number of older employees were pulling the strings in relation to SIPTU and that all they cared about was pushing up their wages as high as possible as them came close to retirement age as this is what their pension would be based on and they didnt give a damm about the long-term future of the company.

    I do know of one lad who came home from Oz before Christmas as he had got a 3 month contract with Liebherr. In the past this was the first step in getting in the door and unless you were hopeless inevitably led to a full-time job. He's not sure what's going to happen now once his contract is up and reckons the odds are that he will be off to Oz again before long.
    Her billionaire father, Markus Liebherr, who rescued the ailing Saints from administration and League One when he paid £14m for the club in 2009, had a wide portfolio of business interests through his company Mali Holdings.

    A few months after buying Southampton he bailed out a struggling printing company in Bern, saving 50 jobs and those of 72 apprentices and becoming known as the "Wifag saviour".

    After his death at the age of 62 in August 2010 and the subsequent inheritance of Mali Holdings by Katharina, she decided to make 31 employees redundant and has since been accused of failing to set a new direction for the company.

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/16/katharina-liebherr-southampton-football-owner-german-markus?CMP=twt_gu


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    Boom__Boom wrote: »
    Figures I heard recently were that Liebherr's wage bill in Killarney was close to the £40m mark and that it had an additional annual spend of around £35m in the local area.

    Also if SIPTU want to see what the new boss is like I found this article. I think SIPTU seem to think that Markus is still in charge and are operating under a host of old assumptions.

    The story that I heard was that a small number of older employees were pulling the strings in relation to SIPTU and that all they cared about was pushing up their wages as high as possible as them came close to retirement age as this is what their pension would be based on and they didnt give a damm about the long-term future of the company.

    I do know of one lad who came home from Oz before Christmas as he had got a 3 month contract with Liebherr. In the past this was the first step in getting in the door and unless you were hopeless inevitably led to a full-time job. He's not sure what's going to happen now once his contract is up and reckons the odds are that he will be off to Oz again before long.



    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/16/katharina-liebherr-southampton-football-owner-german-markus?CMP=twt_gu

    She has nothing to do with the manufacturing plants!


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 dsgking


    work 50hrs a week, come home with 900 after tax.

    money for jam


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Axel Lamp




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    It was said on the radio that there are other unions in liebherr, does anyone know how many other unions are there? i thought it was just Siptu.


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭listrybabe


    WikiHow wrote: »
    It was said on the radio that there are other unions in liebherr, does anyone know how many other unions are there? i thought it was just Siptu.

    you seem to do a lot of thinking


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    listrybabe wrote: »
    you seem to do a lot of thinking
    I like to keep up to current affairs thats all.


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