Pasta Quest: DMV. A Pastafarians Journey for Equality.

enda1

This discussion of pastafarianism is offending me. I can see as I'm the only real pastafarian here that your attempt to copy me without really believing in the FSM is an attempt at causing deep offence to me and my people.

I hope that Dav steps in here and bans you for your highly illegal behaviour.

/sarcasm

Pherekydes

enda1 wrote: »

This discussion of pastafarianism is offending me. I can see as I'm the only real pastafarian here that your attempt to copy me without really believing in the FSM is an attempt at causing deep offence to me and my people.

I am offended by your [taking] offence, etc., etc., ad nauseam...

Bannasidhe

Pherekydes wrote: »

I am offended by your [taking] offence, etc., etc., ad nauseam...

As a practicing diabetic who worships daily with the holy needle I find the carbohydrate fetishism of Pastafarianism to be an abomination and I DEMAND 25 k euro in small, unmarked bills to sooth my outrage. :mad:

UDP

Cabaal wrote: »

Any update or backlog still delaying things?

Nothing yet. It is over 4 weeks now. If I don't hear anything by Wednesday next week I will ring them.

Sulla Felix

UDP wrote: »

Nothing yet. It is over 4 weeks now. If I don't hear anything by Wednesday next week I will ring them.

I can just imagine an office admin pointedly not looking at the envelope that's been sitting on their desk for the past three. It's really a lose-lose for them. If they disallow it, they just know a shítstorm is going to descend, if they allow it, they must figure it'll be in the papers before long.

Markcheese

If you have to wear your sacred head gear for a drivers licence photo for religious reasons,do you have to be wearing it at all times when driving.. ie
If a Garda pulls you over to check your licence and you're not sporting your colander could /should you done for .... Well taking the piss

Sulla Felix

Markcheese wrote: »

If you have to wear your sacred head gear for a drivers licence photo for religious reasons,do you have to be wearing it at all times when driving.. ie
If a Garda pulls you over to check your licence and you're not sporting your colander could /should you done for .... Well taking the piss

I don't see why? Maybe the FSM has a thing about vehicle related photo opportunities but doesn't really care for the actual vehicle operation?

The whole point of FSM is to demonstrate the arbritrariness of religious customs imo. They can't really turn around and tell you that "no, sorry you don't believe that" because it's been enshrined in law that everyones entitled to their own personal interpretation of beliefs.

Cabaal

Markcheese wrote: »

If a Garda pulls you over to check your licence and you're not sporting your colander could /should you done for .... Well taking the piss

Unless he's a minister for the church of the FSM, I don't see how he has the authority to question a person's belief in the FSM.

I'd find it massively offensive for somebody to question me.

Would it be any different to stopping a catholic and claiming they don't believe in jesus/god because they don't have a religious symbol on them.

robindch

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd find it massively offensive for somebody to question me.

A substantial part of me is outraged at that.

Where's my €25,000?

Turtwig

25k is becoming our new meme.

swampgas

Jernal wrote: »

25k is becoming our new meme.

If the 25k goes to the state, maybe this is part of a a sneaky plan to address our financial woes - we simply blaspheme our way back to a balanced budget!

Cabaal

swampgas wrote: »

If the 25k goes to the state, maybe this is part of a a sneaky plan to address our financial woes - we simply blaspheme our way back to a balanced budget!

a sneaky religion tax?

Pherekydes

Jernal wrote: »

25k is becoming our new meme.

And Lesus.

Sarky

Jernal wrote: »

25k is becoming our new meme.

My ZZ Top video in the music thread was oddly prophetic. >_>

UDP

Apparently I am to expect a letter tomorrow or the day after whatever that means. Looks like they were waiting for me to query before sending me that letter. Of course the person sending the letter was just heading into a meeting so could not talk to me.

Cabaal

UDP wrote: »

Apparently I am to expect a letter tomorrow or the day after whatever that means. Looks like they were waiting for me to query before sending me that letter. Of course the person sending the letter was just heading into a meeting so could not talk to me.

Curious in what way they will dismiss your religious beliefs,

Looking forward to the letter,

UDP

Cabaal wrote: »

Curious in what way they will dismiss your religious beliefs,

Looking forward to the letter,

The person on the phone didn't want to say much but there was a warning on screen when he looked me up in the system. Apparently its something to do with requiring clarification or the likes from the department of transport. I expect it will be an attempt to fob me off letter but I don't think they realise that I am a strong believer in people not being discriminated against due to their religious beliefs or lack of i.e. one rule for everyone.

Days 298

Probably someone at the new NDLS confused what to do now. This was not on the training booklet!
FSM.

ferretone

It's gonna be more fun when the NDLS open their new offices, and you have to go and meet an actual person to get your photo done and application taken. I guess you take your colander with and thrash it out right there. They'd really want to have yours sorted before the end of the month, so they'll know what to do with those!

UDP

Local Authority wrote:

....
"The photo captured should have a clear view of the eyes/eyebrows/forehead area with minimal shadows" according to the RSA.
...
"While it is acceptable to wear head covering in accordance with religious beliefs we do not believe that you have demonstrated that the use of head covering is related to a religious belief"
...

They also said from the 25th local authorities will no longer be looking after photos and applications. Might need to send an emergency application tomorrow with a smaller colander then before this happens or what ye think? Does anyone know if it is from Monday that the others take over or when?
If I start questioning it now it will pass the deadline and the NDLS will probably just not allow the photo to be taken there and then.

The second quote sounds like they are not accepting my religious belief as being valid which is discriminatory but the question is what way to proceed under time pressure. Do I just start an Equality Authority Case or try get a new application in?

Dont be at yourself

UDP wrote: »

They also said from the 25th local authorities will no longer be looking after photos and applications. Might need to send an emergency application tomorrow with a smaller colander then before this happens or what ye think? Does anyone know if it is from Monday that the others take over or when?
If I start questioning it now it will pass the deadline and the NDLS will probably just not allow the photo to be taken there and then.

The second quote sounds like they are not accepting my religious belief as being valid which is discriminatory but the question is what way to proceed under time pressure. Do I just start an Equality Authority Case or try get a new application in?

For the second quote, I'd say it should be enough to send information of the past examples of our pastafarian brethern wearing them to show that this is indeed a tradition of our faith. FSM is a minority religion, so it's fair enough that they may not be so familiar with our traditions.

UDP

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

For the second quote, I'd say it should be enough to send information of the past examples of our pastafarian brethern wearing them to show that this is indeed a tradition of our faith. FSM is a minority religion, so it's fair enough that they may not be so familiar with our traditions.

I won't have a lot of time to do this. If people could post or PM me stuff I can use send in I will resend the application tomorrow with same day post. The Local Authority are trying to pass this off to the NDLS so they don't have to do it but it will be much tougher with the NDLS.

Cabaal

Any chance of ringing the chap you called the other day and question exactly how does one prove their religious belief?
Its pretty insulting to be asked such a thing and I'd demand evidence that they ask Catholics, Jews and Muslims the same thing,

Even if it comes to it, NDLS can refuse the photo there and then but they must give you a reason. In such an instance I'd request them to put it in writing and really kick up a stink in relation to the refusal for you to be allowed to express your religion.

Their response was to be expected but it holds no water, if you wear any sort of headwear then this will automatically stop the forehead being in full view.

Dont be at yourself

Here's a post by the church on a similar issue in the US:

http://www.venganza.org/2013/02/the-colander-in-his-admiration-aaron-williams-acknowledges-nj-licencing-laws/

It should help affirm that this is a tradition. Some more links to similar cases:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/texas-pastafarian-license-photo_n_3816839.html
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/06/22/illinois-pastafarian-wants-to-wear-a-colander-on-his-head-for-his-drivers-license-picture-but-gets-rejected/

I guess if you're feeling like compromising, you could agree to keep the colander on the top of your head, so that your forehead, eyebrows and eyes are all clearly visible.

robindch

I'd include a picture of that Austrian FSM follower, together with a few pages of FSM-related prose.

Obviously, they're just annoyed that you're doing it and want to stop it, but I can't help but wonder if a vague reference to the Equality Authority might help concentrate their minds.

Certainly, a nice polite letter thanking them for their time and energy, together with a new photo is something they're going to have a hard time arguing against.

UDP

robindch wrote: »

I'd include a picture of that Austrian FSM follower, together with a few pages of FSM-related prose.

Obviously, they're just annoyed that you're doing it and want to stop it, but I can't help but wonder if a vague reference to the Equality Authority might help concentrate their minds.

Certainly, a nice polite letter thanking them for their time and energy, together with a new photo is something they're going to have a hard time arguing against.

Yes. I am thinking about sending the following filled out also:
http://www.labourcourt.ie/en/Publications_Forms/Equal_Status_Form_ES-1_-_pdf.pdf

Cabaal

UDP wrote: »

Yes. I am thinking about sending the following filled out also:
http://www.labourcourt.ie/en/Publications_Forms/Equal_Status_Form_ES-1_-_pdf.pdf

Well if you're going down the legal route then they have to take you seriously, in many respects it seems overkill but one has to wounder how serious they'll take you otherwise.

OU812

Oh please do this

robindch

UDP wrote: »

Yes. I am thinking about sending the following filled out also:

I say go for it.

Sulla Felix

Hmm, only just struck me but it would have been an idea to have someone submit, at the same time, an application with a photo featuring something recognizable, a turban say or arab headscarf. It would have been interesting to see the response to both in comparison.

cerastes

Hmm,
Hardly suprising they wont consider this, when I came across Pastafariamism, besides getting a good laugh, I thought, thats me
So as we aren't expected to wear a pasta strainer day to day, cant really expect to have something so overt in a driving licence, but hey, Im all for someone contesting it,
btw I'm an a la carte, pastafarianist

Now if you can get that on your passport,

recedite

Local Authority wrote:

"While it is acceptable to wear head covering in accordance with religious beliefs we do not believe that you have demonstrated that the use of head covering is related to a religious belief"

EFFing atheist troublemakers. The county councils are full of them :mad:
Don't let them get away with this outrage.

Orion

Get ordained as a minister . Then send in a copy of your ordination certificate with your application. Then let them question your faith.

robindch

UDP wrote: »

Yes. I am thinking about sending the following filled out also:

If it's of any use, I -- and, no doubt, Dades and Jernal -- will be happy to confirm that you've been a valued member of A+A for many years and that the forum's primary religious allegiance is to the Flying Spaghetti Monster (praise be upon his name).

Turtwig

robindch wrote: »

If it's of any use, I -- and, no doubt, Dades and Jernal -- will be happy to confirm that you've been a valued member of A+A for many years and that the forum's primary religious allegiance is to the Flying Spaghetti Monster (praise be upon his name).

Afraid I can't. I defected to the Reformed Flying Spaghetti Monster church and thereby cannot associate or give references to FSM members.

lazygal

Jernal wrote: »

Afraid I can't. I defected to the Reformed Flying Spaghetti Monster church and thereby cannot associate or give references to FSM members.

Splitter.

robindch

Jernal wrote: »

[...] the Reformed Flying Spaghetti Monster church [...]

Splittists? Sounds like the FSM is a real religion at last.

Absoluvely

Jernal's Great Spaghetti Schism of 2013

Turtwig

Absoluvely wrote: »

Jernal's Great Spaghetti Schism of 2013

It was the wrong flavour of noodles. Is all I'm saying.

UDP

The RSA have called my religious beliefs a parody thus refused the application I re-submitted before the NDLS offices officially took over. Time to take this further.

B0X

Time to sue, think of all the pasta you could buy with the settlement.

robindch

UDP wrote: »

The RSA have called my religious beliefs a parody [...]

Do you have this in writing? I wouldn't have thought that the RSA are legally competent to judge whether a religion is a joke or not. Have they quoted you any law on this? Or are they just making it up as the go along?

Knex*

robindch wrote: »

Do you have this in writing? I wouldn't have thought that the RSA are legally competent to judge whether a religion is a joke or not. Have they quoted you any law on this? Or are they just making it up as the go along?

Methinks the person who wrote that response is going to be getting a slap on the wrists in the not too distant future.

Cabaal

UDP wrote: »

The RSA have called my religious beliefs a parody thus refused the application I re-submitted before the NDLS offices officially took over. Time to take this further.

I'm very curious if they were dumb enough to put this in writing?

What exactly did they say or write?

FouxDaFaFa

If they actually used the word "parody", they're fcuked. That would imply the RSA is in the business of deciding the value of individual religions.

UDP

RSA wrote:

We have considered the application by yourself for a replacement driving license due to a change of address which you had submitted to Dublin City Motor Tax Office and would advise you the photographs provided do not meet the standard set by the RSA.

Head covering which are necessary to be worn in relation to religious beliefs are acceptable for an application for a driving license provided that there is a clear view of the eyes/eyebrows/forehead area with minimal shadows.

However, it is not possible to accept that headgear worn in relation to a 'parody religion' can be accepted.

Followed by
...
details of new NDLS centers and that the headwear I wore would not be allowed there either (paraphrased).
...
...
Can contact the ombudsman if I feel I haven't been treated fairly.(paraphrased)
...
...

OU812

Time to make a media awareness campaign. Anyone work in PR/Legal ?

UDP

robindch wrote: »

Do you have this in writing? I wouldn't have thought that the RSA are legally competent to judge whether a religion is a joke or not. Have they quoted you any law on this? Or are they just making it up as the go along?

Looks like making it up. No mention of laws. I did mention on the re-submitted application that treating me differently to those of other religions would be a breach of the equal status act 2000.

Knex*

I honestly cannot believe they wrote that.

Their legal team will have a canary.

Gordon

Judging by the single quotes, they probably just looked up on Wikipedia to find out about this religion. Boy will they have egg noodles on their faces when His Noodly Appendigeness rains torrents of meatballs from the sky, and forces them to build a carbonarark to float to work on every day, seeing as cars can't drive in meatball sauce.