Firebird c44

Dtp1979

Was at one today. Only a year old. Had the inside spotless. Pump set at 7.5 and nozzle was 1.25 60s. All set to MI. But for the life of me I couldn't get CO2 below 12.3. I had the air open to 9!!!
Anyone know why?

scudo2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Was at one today. Only a year old. Had the inside spotless. Pump set at 7.5 and nozzle was 1.25 60s. All set to MI. But for the life of me I couldn't get CO2 below 12.3. I had the air open to 9!!!
Anyone know why?

Forget the air number, I always just keep reducing it till I get smoke on the smoke pump, then gradualy work back up till I get O smoke.
Also check that the flimsy plastic air shutter actualy moves when you turn the air screw, I've often seen the treads sheared.
I never go by the numbers, always by nozzle, pressure then smoke pump to O, then FGA.
If nozzle was faulty with O smoke then the FGA readings would be off the scale.

I'm not saying this way is better but it works for me.

Sometimes a smaller Nozzle at higher pressure has to be used. Have Fun !

Wearb

After making sure that the air passageways are clear and the correct blast tube is fitted and clean, I would be tempted to try a new nozzle and if that didn't work, I would try a size smaller.

With reference to Scuco's post, I would test the air adjuster with the air box off to see if it works. Lots of these Allen Key slots damaged and needs a small flat screwdriver gently tapped into it to adjust it.

Dtp1979

scudo2 wrote: »

Forget the air number, I always just keep reducing it till I get smoke on the smoke pump, then gradualy work back up till I get O smoke.
Also check that the flimsy plastic air shutter actualy moves when you turn the air screw, I've often seen the treads sheared.
I never go by the numbers, always by nozzle, pressure then smoke pump to O, then FGA.
If nozzle was faulty with O smoke then the FGA readings would be off the scale.

I'm not saying this way is better but it works for me.

Sometimes a smaller Nozzle at higher pressure has to be used. Have Fun !

What I don't understand is with the air open to max it didn't affect the readings. And yep I did check the air shutter. It was fine

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What I don't understand is with the air open to max it didn't affect the readings. And yep I did check the air shutter. It was fine

Sometimes the fan just isnt able to push enough air through the blast tube and boiler resistance pressure etc. to allow for proper combustion if the nozzle is allowing too much oil through.

crock!

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Was at one today. Only a year old. Had the inside spotless. Pump set at 7.5 and nozzle was 1.25 60s. All set to MI. But for the life of me I couldn't get CO2 below 12.3. I had the air open to 9!!!
Anyone know why?

What was fga temp

scudo2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What I don't understand is with the air open to max it didn't affect the readings. And yep I did check the air shutter. It was fine

Some ROB also have manual air damper internal, hense no difference with external shutter at Max.
Your problem is to much air anyway.
So totaly reduce air till you get smoke and then increase it till O smoke.

Dtp1979

crock! wrote: »

What was fga temp

Can't remember to be honest think it was around 50

crock!

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Can't remember to be honest think it was around 50

I once had the same problem when i couldnt get enough air into it.i hada faulty oil pressure gauge. I thought I had 8 bar but I had 10bar.fga temp was threw the roof.but with all fb I drop a nozzle size and up the pressure

jimf

what happens if you reduce the air back on the damper do the readings change

what was the damper set at originally

scudo2

jimf wrote: »

what happens if you reduce the air back on the damper

You'll eventual get smoke.
Try it.
Reduce air till you get smoke on smoke pump paper. Then gradualy increase air till you get zero smoke.

99% Certain that's your cause of high Co2

It's always the first thing I do.

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

what happens if you reduce the air back on the damper do the readings change

what was the damper set at originally

Damper was at 5 originally and I was getting 13% co2. I was trying to get well below 12 but didn't happen!

Dtp1979

scudo2 wrote: »

You'll eventual get smoke.
Try it.
Reduce air till you get smoke on smoke pump paper. Then gradualy increase air till you get zero smoke.

99% Certain that's your cause of high Co2

It's always the first thing I do.

What co2 readings do you usually get with that method scudo?

scudo2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Damper was at 5 originally and I was getting 13% co2. I was trying to get well below 12 but didn't happen!

I've often had to go as low as 1
Forget the numbers as they are often not the same. Follow my suggestion.

jimf

you would imagine with the air damper set at 9 it would be grossly overaired thus very high co as well

Dtp1979

scudo2 wrote: »

I've often had to go as low as 1
Forget the numbers as they are often not the same. Follow my suggestion.

I've often gone to 1 also. But I'm just curious as to what co2 readings you get

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

you would imagine with the air damper set at 9 it would be grossly overaired thus very high co as well

That's what I was thinking but co was only 50

scudo2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What co2 readings do you usually get with that method scudo?

Smoke pump first as I'll never put FGA into a smoke flue . Normally get about 4%O2 then slowly increase air till I get 6% O2 +11% Co2 + less than 40pm Co

I know Firebird recommend slightly lower oxygen of 4.8% but I get better results this way. No dirty photocells or sutty boilers, we'll most of the time !!

I've discussed this with Firebird who I deal with a lot over the years and I go down to there factory a few times a year. and also told them there boiler is a very efficient design with one small flaw. They made it upside down.

jimf

any difference with the snorkel hose removed

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

any difference with the snorkel hose removed

No snorkel it's a module. Open flued

jimf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

No snorkel it's a module. Open flued

bang goes another line of thought

crock!

jimf wrote: »

bang goes another line of thought

Gasket on mountain flange good and rubber seal at the back of blast tube

Dtp1979

crock! wrote: »

Gasket on mountain flange good and rubber seal at the back of blast tube

Yep all perfect.

Wearb

I suspect that the last number of turns on the air adjuster made no difference to the FGA readings. ???

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

I suspect that the last number of turns on the air adjuster made no difference to the FGA readings. ???

That's right. Know something I don't??

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

That's right. Know something I don't??

My first post suggests a cure. My second a possible cause.

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

My first post suggests a cure. My second a possible cause.

I did everything except changing the nozzle. Well I mean I did change it for the service. I didn't have a second one. I might try a smaller size.

JamesM

It has already been suggested, but I would agree with trying a smaller nozzle and a slightly higher pressure - 120 in old money.
Jim.

scudo2

Not many replys from the others tonight !


Maybe a secret Xmass party in Kilkenny for the chosen few ?

The feckers also invited Billy FFS

Save us some cake please.

jimf

scudo2 wrote: »

Not many replys from the others tonight !


Maybe a secret Xmass party in Kilkenny for the chosen few ?

no were not going till tomorrow night

scudo2

jimf wrote: »

no were going till tomorrow night

Good one.

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

no were going till tomorrow night

See you in Langtons. I will be the one wearing numerous pints of Guinness Inside!

scudo2

Wearb wrote: »

See you in Langtons. I will be the one wearing numerous pints of Guinness Inside!

"Matt the Millers" is better, I'll be plucking the hen's!

(I know, bad spelling again.)

TG They don't talk boilers.

Dtp1979

scudo2 wrote: »

"Matt the Millers" is better, I'll be plucking the hen's!

(I know, bad spelling again.)

TG They don't talk boilers.

Matt the millers is great on a Monday night!

scudo2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Matt the millers is great on a Monday night!

OFF TOPIC
Your all trying to distract me from this secret Xmass party on Saturday, thanks a bunch, mates !!!

shane0007

Yes it's our Christmas do tonight.
Yes I'm in Langtons.
Yes I'll probably hit Matt's next.
Yes I'm getting slaughtered tonight.
Yes it's probably a dodgy nozzle!

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

Yes it's our Christmas do tonight.
Yes I'm in Langtons.
Yes I'll probably hit Matt's next.
Yes I'm getting slaughtered tonight.
Yes it's probably a dodgy nozzle!

Get back to your pint Shane !

scudo2

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Get back to your pint Shane !

Where's the unthank button.?

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

Yes it's our Christmas do tonight.
Yes I'm in Langtons.
Yes I'll probably hit Matt's next.
Yes I'm getting slaughtered tonight.
Yes it's probably a dodgy nozzle!

id say your own nozzle could be dodgy tomorrow

Billy Bunting

shane0007 wrote: »

Yes it's our Christmas do tonight.
Yes I'm in Langtons.
Yes I'll probably hit Matt's next.
Yes I'm getting slaughtered tonight.
Yes it's probably a dodgy nozzle!

I was told that he has always had a dodgy nozzle, comes with age i'm told, have asked Gary to confirm but he seems to be away in Langtons. :rolleyes:

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

I was told that he has always had a dodgy nozzle, comes with age i'm told, have asked Gary to confirm but he seems to be away in Langtons. :rolleyes:

oh the chosen few

Billy Bunting

Ya have to be on Shane's email list, though i did think he had us all on the list.

Perhaps we haven't been generous enough with the THANKS.

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Ya have to be on Shane's email list, though i did think he had us all on the list.

Perhaps we haven't been generous enough with the THANKS.

hmmmm:P:P

Billy Bunting

Say nothing Scudo. lol

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Ya have to be on Shane's email list, though i did think he had us all on the list.

Perhaps we haven't been generous enough with the THANKS.

bet you get your arse kicked when gary sees this:D:D

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Say nothing Scudo. lol

best bit of advise from you yet this year billy:D:D

Billy Bunting

He didn't kick Shane's ass when it was sat waiting in front of him. lol

Anyway, he'll not be sobber till 6-1-14

agusta

up to 5 percent of new nozzles are faulty.if everything is ok,the new nozzle can actually be the fault

DGOBS

OP, go back to basics…

a) Change Nozzle
b) 7.5bar on enviromax too low IMHO (8-9 bar with smaller nozzle works better)
c) What was your O2 reading in fresh air before analysis? (maybe an O2 Cell fault)
d) +1 on the smoke pump first and 9 on air shutter if operation is way too high
e) Check nozzle and nozzle holed for drips or hairline cracks (look for wet inner blast tube, but should see high CO too)
f) set air shutter as per MI to start, smoke pump, then analyser
g) Look for any flue gas recycling at terminal
h) Check fuel quality, turbidity etc, lots of tainted/washed fuel about that needs to be over-aired!!! (walk away!)
i) If you leave it set at high air like that, you will start getting lock outs on cold starts as it blows the flame out

Keep coming back, together we will help you solve this one….

Dtp1979

How much smaller of a nozzle?? 1.25 60s there at the moment

crock!

Dtp1979 wrote: »

How much smaller of a nozzle?? 1.25 60s there at the moment

1.10