Overgenerous Welfare Systems causing "Welfare Tourism"

golfwallah

Welfare Systems in some EU states have been deemed “overgenerous” by EU Justice Commissioner, Viviane Reding at a meeting of Justice & Home Ministers on 4th December last.

If Welfare rates are deemed overgenerous in Britain, Germany, et al., where does that put us with our even more generous welfare system (the most generous in the EU)? Just think about it – Labour are insisting we maintain our headline rates, therefore, social welfare budget and taxes / borrowings to fund it have to grow too.

It seems Britain, Germany, Austria and the Netherlands have been leading the charge against abuse of internal EU movement rights to avail of their welfare systems.

Britain’s case against “Welfare Tourism” was rebuffed by the EU Justice Commissioner at the meeting: “EU rules are clear. Member states are free to decide which benefits they want to set up, under which conditions they are going to pay these, to whom and for how long,” Ms Reding said. “It seems some national systems are too generous.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/uk-calls-for-overhaul-of-eu-rules-on-migrants-1.1618512

Maura74

This was discussed in a political program on BBC2 regarding UK bringing in at the last minute sanctions for 3 months. The program revealed that people from EU could claim from their own country origin benefits for 3 months when in UK, which would give them time to gain employment. Therefore these politician was doing was nonsense but they got to be seen to be doing something I expect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03mnpqm/Daily_Politics_18_12_2013/

Corkbah

and this is a topic for debate because …..

everyone under the sun (except irish politicians) - knows that if you give more welfare payments than other countries, don't have staff monitoring it constantly and have a reasonably low criteria to qualify …. you'll be inviting other countries spongers to sign up.

Many people from other European countries come here and its been a known fact for years - even people up North apply for and get the welfare here in some boarder towns - its twice as much if my memory is correct.

fact of the matter is our politicians keep those that can and do cause the most physical damage to society happy because it keeps the world spinning - if the unwashed are happy there can be no revolt !!

(not calling all unemployed people the "unwashed" …its meant to try make light of the situation - yes ! its tragic that so many people are unemployed and the state does little to help them get work except give them money and tell them to keep quiet)

spank_inferno

golfwallah wrote: »

where does that put us with our even more generous welfare system (the most generous in the EU)?

We don't have the most generous welfare system by any calculation.

If JSA requires some sort of employment history then welfare tourism must be tiny (if it even exists outside the pages of the Daily Mail).

View

Corkbah wrote: »

and this is a topic for debate because …..

everyone under the sun (except irish politicians) - knows that if you give more welfare payments than other countries, don't have staff monitoring it constantly and have a reasonably low criteria to qualify …. you'll be inviting other countries spongers to sign up.

The criteria aren't "reasonably low" so none of those "spongers" qualify for welfare.

Corkbah wrote: »

even people up North apply for and get the welfare here in some boarder towns -

Either a person lives in the RoI and meets the criteria for welfare here or does not - if they do not, they have no basis to claim welfare.

woodoo

Why oh why oh why do we continue to pay the same levels of welfare regardless of how long you are unemployed. Some sponger on the dole 10 years gets the same (more actually when you consider fuel allowance is only paid to those on the dole over 18 months) that someone newly unemployed.

johnnyskeleton

If we want to attract the top welfare recipients to this country, we must pay them top dollar.

And we need them here to spend every euro they have, because they are keeping the real economy going.

Idbatterim

Why oh why oh why do we continue to pay the same levels of welfare regardless of how long you are unemployed. Some sponger on the dole 10 years gets the same (more actually when you consider fuel allowance is only paid to those on the dole over 18 months) that someone newly unemployed.

good questions, that I will be asking politicians when they come a knocking around election time, I suggest the rest of you do too...

The whole system here in relation to welfare is a total and utter shambles!

golfwallah

spank_inferno wrote: »

We don't have the most generous welfare system by any calculation.

If JSA requires some sort of employment history then welfare tourism must be tiny (if it even exists outside the pages of the Daily Mail).

Article in Cork Examiner on recent EC study:

The figures revealed in a recent European Commission report on the impact of unemployed migrants on social welfare budgets suggest that “benefit tourism” is not a substantial issue in the European Union, but indicate that Ireland is a conspicuous exception to this finding in a number of areas.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eu-citizens-enjoy-very-generous-welfare-here-247744.html

Count Dooku

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If we want to attract the top welfare recipients to this country, we must pay them top dollar.

And we need them here to spend every euro they have, because they are keeping the real economy going.

Do you mean retail sector reselling imported goods is real economy?

johnnyskeleton

Count Dooku wrote: »

Do you mean retail sector reselling imported goods is real economy?

Don't worry, increasing tax on the middle class stops them buying all those imported cars and televisions, under labour's plan we will have full unemployment and loads of money to spend on domestically produced goods (not that anyone will produce them, but still).

spank_inferno

golfwallah wrote: »

Article in Cork Examiner on recent EC study:


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eu-citizens-enjoy-very-generous-welfare-here-247744.html

Well in OECD countries Ireland spends exactly the OECD average on social welfare.
(OECD including several non-EU countries).

That paper article shows we have a list lot of immigrant former construction workers who are claiming JSB/JSA.

It does not have any mention of people moving to Ireland for the sole purpose of claiming social welfare.

golfwallah

spank_inferno wrote: »

Well in OECD countries Ireland spends exactly the OECD average on social welfare.
(OECD including several non-EU countries).

That paper article shows we have a list lot of immigrant former construction workers who are claiming JSB/JSA.

It does not have any mention of people moving to Ireland for the sole purpose of claiming social welfare.

I am more concerned with the long run implications for the hard pressed average taxpayer of EU Justice Commissioner, Viviane Reding’s assertion that “some national systems are too generous”.

In other words, if you have a problem with growing social welfare budgets, go fix it yourself at national level. But a key Labour condition for staying in government is preservation of headline rates. Therefore, only the small bit of the growing welfare budget will be funded by fraud detection, leaving the biggest bit to be funded by increased taxes and borrowing.

The Examiner’s article on the EC report on social welfare budgets points to a relatively higher proportion of benefits being received by EU migrants in Ireland compared to the rest of the population.

Payments to migrant workers is part of the problem (and proportionally bigger in Ireland than in other EU states), but the main thrust of this thread is that the EU commission take the view that some national systems are too generous.

Maybe that’s why Minister Joan Burton is one of the most popular ministers in the state (instead of a short-term safety net, welfare provides an indefinite life-style choice for growing numbers funded by a shrinking, less well-off working population):
http://www.thejournal.ie/burton-noonan-poll-1222203-Dec2013/