Xmas Kilkenny V Xmas Waterford

kkapp

Is it just me or does anybody else think by taking the Christmas Markets to Mac Donagh this year it lost a lot of the atmosphere in centre of town. Parade was a complete an utter failure. I think the organisers need to take a trip to Waterford to see how a great christmas experience can be achieved for next year maybe. Kilkenny FAIL.

Sully

To be fair, Winterval is a completely different type of Christmas event than Kilkenny was/is aiming for.

mefynn

Christmas in Kilkenny is a disaster this year,high st at 2 0 clock today,(the saturday) before christmas was like a ghost town,the "city fathers" have a lot to answer for,the parade is a disgrace you would hardly know its christmas and dont start me on the cost of parking and our "lovely contracted traffic wardens",my advise, do a survey of how many locals went elsewhere to shop because of free parking etc,(including some of our councillers and employees of council),get a grip before we lose completely next year,Kilkenny on ice and markets all in McDonagh,these need to be spread out to different areas and give all traders a fair chance and rid us of those traffic wardens,employ some locals,and as for the music played in high St omg,we need some elves and fun characters some nice music and some free parking as a start but ye will still have a long way to go.Hard to be proud of Kilkenny at the moment.

kikel

Agree with some of your points but the weather yesterday was terrible. Who in the right mind would go shopping.


The market on the parade in previous years was a much better idea.

kikel

I was walking in Dunmore East today and decided to check this out. I have to say great buzz around Waterford today. So many different things on in different parts of town.

mefynn

Waterford is just down the road with the motorway as is Carlow but do our Councillors see that ? NO,they are destroying Kilkenny and the retail sector here,the Chamber of Commerce needs to start fighting their cause and the high rents charged also,we lost 2 shops in the past few days and is anything being done about it, NO,and the famous bridge is it finished ? NO,some money should have been spent on Christmas lighting etc not on that bridge

kkapp

Totally agree with the last few points. I would love to support local and stay local but when I am not given a choice I have to go elsewhere. No Tesco (I know it has been spoken to death on here) I drove to Clonmel during week to get my main shop and on occasion when I have used telco online the driver has told me the majority of orders placed from the Carlow store are too Kilkenny.

It is Christmas you want atmosphere Kilkenny was like a ghost town most of this Christmas due to the lack of investment locally from the council who seem hell bent on destroying this great city.

road_high

I think we are getting a bit of the "grass is greener syndrome" here.
Read any similar thread on the Waterford forum and it's obvious retail is really really struggling down there; sure the Winterval fest is a great success (and more power to them) but the City centre in Waterford most of the year is seriously dead and there's way more vacant units than Kilkenny. Conversely you hear many posters complain that Waterford does not have many of the shops here nor get the same level of festivals or visitors in the summer-time.
High st and surrounds have almost 100% occupancy as has MacDonagh Junction now and this despite the very high rents in KK too.
Carlow the same, is a bit like Waterford too. Has several retailers I'd love to see in KK like Tesco, Harry Corry, Homestore, Dealz, Currys electrical but christ the heart of the town is dead around Tullow st etc. I do like shopping in Carlow as it's often better value than KK.
The Tesco delivery van can be seen daily around town so whatever you think of them, there's a huge pent-up demand for Tesco in KK. Waterford is double the size but has 4 or 5 of them as far as i know...that's probably topo extreme as it damages the city centres.


Kilkenny's retail offering can only improve, it has its' flaws and lackings but if these can be addressed I wouldn't swap with our near neighbours.

Also agree though re the car-parking and alienation of motorists in Kilkenny too. The Council go out of their way to make life difficult which puts people off coming here.
The weather lately has not helped either, as an area like High st. is very dependent on it being dry for the crowds.

road_high

Also like to say there's some great local large retailers here like Pauls, Goods, Sherwoods, Winstons and Allens that have great shops and can in my experience more than compete with the multiples on price, value and service.
That's something we have to think about too.

kikel

I dont think it is grass is greener. I think it is just a realisation that those responsible didn't make a great choice this year. Maybe it is a little hard on them in the fact that organisers around town put so much effort in and get so many things right on other occasions.

I've lived in both KK and Waterford and I would say that KK is my preferred place to live. It's a great place with lots going on, some great pubs restaurants and beautiful scenery.

I suppose a lot of my argument comes back to using the city centre and getting people into it as much as possible. I'm really against all these out of town centres. Waterford has a huge number of these. Poleberry, Arkeen, Tecos on the ring road, plus many more. Maybe if it wasn't for these centres the city centre of waterford wouldn't loose so much from the city centre. We are killing our City Centres in my opinion.

It was great to see so many people around waterford it really was about the city centre and people out enjoying it. There were people in on streets enjoying themselves that was on a par with a city such as Barcelona (far fetched maybe).

spookwoman

I dont know the few times I was in Waterford it was quiet in the early evening and tbh I didn't feel safe. To shop in Waterford you do have to travel around to different centres and waterford city centre doesn't hold much. I checked the price differences between waterford and kilkenny parking and kk is cheaper. I checked an few other things ref xmas things and again kk was cheaper. If someone handed me money and said go shopping I'd go to Kilkenny. As a town/city kk has a warmer more central feel to it, it doesnt have a rundown look either

road_high

Yea I think Kilkenny has more competition from surrounding towns and even Dublin than Waterford would. You have Kildare village also under an hour away and that is a big draw away for middle-higher end retailing.
Apart from Debenhams, which I quite like, there's nothing I'd go to Waterford for really unless i was down there for something else.

swanvill

I enjoyed taking my kids to very Kilkenny Christmas on the parade. Seeing that there was no Santa or games on parade last year, this year was an improvement.

Winterville is five year old festival with €500k invested in it, so we are not comparing like with like, when we compare it to Kilkenny.
I hope they do it again next year in Kilkenny and the council are able to provide more funds so it can start to rival winterville

1984baby

I thought they made a mess of the Christmas set-up in kk this year. I've never been to the winterval in Waterford so I cant comment on comparisons.
The idea "A Very Christmas Kilkenny" was a good concept but badly executed IMO. They should have left the craft stalls on the parade - it looked very bare during the week and with the bad weather the inflatable stuff could not be set up for the last 2 weekends. The stalls in McDonagh Junction did not get alot of footfall. The Goods Shed is too out of the way and secluded.

mefynn

i have to fully agree with 1984,they made a proper mess of it this year and why everything is shoved into Mcdonagh Junction and city centre ignored is beyond me,its the city centre we need boosted plus more free parking and less traffic wardens of the kind employed presently

Smiley Burnett

kkapp wrote: »

Totally agree with the last few points. I would love to support local and stay local but when I am not given a choice I have to go elsewhere. No Tesco (I know it has been spoken to death on here) I drove to Clonmel during week to get my main shop and on occasion when I have used telco online the driver has told me the majority of orders placed from the Carlow store are too Kilkenny.

It is Christmas you want atmosphere Kilkenny was like a ghost town most of this Christmas due to the lack of investment locally from the council who seem hell bent on destroying this great city.

you shop online from a store that is located in Carlow and then you complain that Kilkenny is like a ghost town??!!! oh, the irony!!!!

MRnotlob606

I think winterval is facade really,Many of the jobs there are only there to make a quick buck,We do still have clubs closing and the forum is being turned into a god damn bingo hall

Sully

swanvill wrote: »

I enjoyed taking my kids to very Kilkenny Christmas on the parade. Seeing that there was no Santa or games on parade last year, this year was an improvement.

Winterville is five year old festival with €500k invested in it, so we are not comparing like with like, when we compare it to Kilkenny.
I hope they do it again next year in Kilkenny and the council are able to provide more funds so it can start to rival winterville

You can't compete with Winterville unless you actually invest and create something similar to it.

A mini Christmas Market / Event would not have a hope of impacting on Waterford.

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I think winterval is facade really,Many of the jobs there are only there to make a quick buck,We do still have clubs closing and the forum is being turned into a god damn bingo hall

What's your point? Nobody is suggesting Winterval is the saving grace for Waterford. Its a Christmas boost for the City and hopefully will create spin off tourism in the future. Its a Christmas Festival and like all festivals it produces an immediate boost. Not a long term one.

spookwoman

You can compete with winterval just get some local people who want a quick buck give them some sheds etc, put on some shows and hey presto you have it and as for it being a facade and making a quick buck I think you know my thoughts on that. There was free parking on some evenings and that stopped when the festival started. The gimmicky rides that kids would notice and want a go on were pricey. People had pre booked santa and had to wait with their kids sometimes an hour to see him. The times I did go in there were not that many people about, half the lights weren't even on and there was no atmosphere. There was also WSPCA called in ref the horses slipping. The animal farm complaints made about the cages too small and animals left unattended at times.
I think it says a hell of a lot about an event when questions are brought up about the safety of animals used to bring in money.

NoGutsNoGlory

mefynn wrote: »

i have to fully agree with 1984,they made a proper mess of it this year and why everything is shoved into Mcdonagh Junction and city centre ignored is beyond me,its the city centre we need boosted plus more free parking and less traffic wardens of the kind employed presently

did you get a couple of tickets???:D wardens are prob need to stop idiots parking and blocking the town.....

mefynn

no I didnt get any tickets but if you are walking in town you will see how they target people who are legally parked for their free 15 mins and getting ticket before 15 mins are up,not fair,especially on elderly or parents with young children,you are so perfect from your comment and never parked where you shouldnt....if you drive at all

NoGutsNoGlory

mefynn wrote: »

no I didnt get any tickets but if you are walking in town you will see how they target people who are legally parked for their free 15 mins and getting ticket before 15 mins are up,not fair,especially on elderly or parents with young children,you are so perfect from your comment and never parked where you shouldnt....if you drive at all

dont you worry my friend i'm driving a long time :cool:... arent you a a great one for looking out for the elderly and young chidren..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

1984baby

Don't know what all the fuss is about regarding the new traffic wardens. I know of 6/7 people who got tickets and were complaining about it. All of these people were completely in the wrong (parked on double yellow lines, parked in taxi ranks, cars in loading bays etc...). 99% of people who get parking tickets are breaking the rules and usually say "I was only there for a minute".
At least the loading bays are now free for commercial vehicles (the intended use for them).

OpenYourMind

In order to have any successful event such as this, then it's very important to have the local community involved from the planning stages.

In my opinion, this did not happen in Kilkenny this year. Everything seemed to be thrown together at the last minute (i.e. from November). The local authorities "passed the buck" to the High Street and other traders and commercial interests to come up with a Christmas Festival. Essentially what you have to remember then is that it was for 'commercial' reasons that a Christmas Festival was initiated, with the intention being to increase commercial activity - I don't see anything wrong with this per se, since Christmas is exactly that - commercial (I didn't buy into these press releases about wanting visitors and locals to connect 'emotionally' with Kilkenny during Christmas... etc etc.. usual marketing rubbish - and probably paid someone a fortune to come up with it).

In fairness to the Christmas Market on the parade - it never really took off now, did it? Having been to a number of 'proper' European Christmas Markets over the years, the Kilkenny effort left a lot to be desired - and lets face it, this is what Kilkenny is competing against. It seemed to me to that it was just a Christmas version of the local farmers market on Thursday. Having said that filling the area with a load of inflatables (in the middle of winter?) and overcharging hard pressed families didn't work either - the "emotional connection" derived from this blatant over-charging is not what the organisers expected I dare say.

The train should have been subsidised by the L.A or traders hoping to benefit from it, so that it was 'free' to consumers. €2.50 for a single trip on what is effectively a 10 minute walk is a bit ridiculous. It was never going to work.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. Next year, start planing from August, give the event back to the local community as these are the customers and support you also seek. Have a proper Christmas Market to be proud of, or not at all. Focus on atmosphere and turn down that goddamn music on High Street - nice touch, but too loud/harsh sounding - can't put my finger on it, but it just didn't work.

In any case, every initiative is to be applauded as at least 'some' effort is being made.. it may take time, and a few wrong turns and wrong people on wrong commitees etc, but what we have at the minute is the embryo for what could develop into a very popular and successful event in the coming years as people learn from their mistakes and aim higher.

kikel

OpenYourMind wrote: »

In any case, every initiative is to be applauded as at least 'some' effort is being made..

Very true.