Does anyone have an opinion on......

Hank Schrader

....the GAA throwing out an Irish catering company for a "foreign" one ????


E.G. with loss of jobs and the GAA supposed to be supporting all things Irish ???

Fr Tod Umptious

If you have us a bit more details maybe we would

wicklowwonder

Is the whole supporting Irish thing not against EU competition law? I never understood how the GAA get away with insuring who kit supplier are etc.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The GAA can employ whoever they like in my opinion.They shouldn't get screwed by an Irish company just because they are Irish, however I suspect if Addidas,Nike supplied a kit for county next year they may not be too happy about it.

Realt Dearg Sec

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Is the whole supporting Irish thing not against EU competition law? I never understood how the GAA get away with insuring who kit supplier are etc.

The gaa isn't the government, they are free to buy goods and services from whoever they want.

wicklowwonder

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The gaa isn't the government, they are free to buy goods and services from whoever they want.

But the GAA restrict clubs and counties through their laws by saying they can only purchase from O'Neills, Azzurri and now Kukri. That is against free trade and I am fairly sure it doesn't matter if you are the government or not you need to open up to process to all EU companies.

Hank Schrader

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If you have us a bit more details maybe we would

Fitzers Catering are getting the boot, in fact they finished up today with the loss of dozen of jobs (don't have the figures at hand) Nice Christmas pressie for them :mad:

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Is the whole supporting Irish thing not against EU competition law? I never understood how the GAA get away with insuring who kit supplier are etc.

Its an American company that's taking over


I'm all in favour of competition but you cant go round spouting about supporting all things Irish (as the GAA do) and then do this. Highly hypocrytical

ProudDUB

If it means that the food and the food buying experience at Croke Park gets better, then I am all for it. And don't get me started on all the clueless, inexperienced kids (who are probably paid a pittance) flogging the CP burgers and hot dogs, who are so painfully slow, you generally miss the first 10 mins of the second half if you feel peckish at half time. If some bright spark decides to hire and pay the going rate for experienced staff who actually have a clue about how to prep and serve food to large crowds, you won't hear a peep outa me, even if they are all dang for'ners.

zetecescort

What's wrong with the hang sandwiches lads

Tom Joad

Hank Schrader wrote: »

Fitzers Catering are getting the boot, in fact they finished up today with the loss of dozen of jobs (don't have the figures at hand) Nice Christmas pressie for them :mad:

Are you sure about people getting the boot? - in my experience in this (and it's only my limited experience) when catering companies change a lot of times they retain the same staff!

Hank Schrader wrote: »

Its an American company that's taking over

I'm all in favour of competition but you cant go round spouting about supporting all things Irish (as the GAA do) and then do this. Highly hypocrytical

Is the fact it's an American company relevant- are they going to fly over hoardes of americans and not employ any Irish people

Don't see the hypocrisy at all.

Do you know circumstances of Fitzers leaving and care to share?

Tbh without more info it sounds like a Joe Duffy ill informed "it's a disgrace Joe" rant.

Hank Schrader

Tom Joad wrote: »

Are you sure about people getting the boot? - in my experience in this (and it's only my limited experience) when catering companies change a lot of times they retain the same staff!


100% sure







Is the fact it's an American company relevant- are they going to fly over hoardes of americans and not employ any Irish people

Don't see the hypocracy at all.

Do you know circumstances of Fitzers leaving and care to share?

Tbh without more info it sounds like a Joe Duffy ill informed "it's a disgrace Joe" rant.

Without mentioning the fact it is an American company I could not point out the hypocrisy


They lost a tender


I don't know anything about a cat stuck up a tree in Clontarf

Tom Joad

Hank Schrader wrote: »

Without mentioning the fact it is an American company I could not point out the hypocrisy


They lost a tender


I don't know anything about a cat stuck up a tree in Clontarf

The GAA is a commercial organisation and has therefore to follow certain corporate governance practices - whether they like it or not. One of these relates to tendering for contracts - I assume Fitzers' contract was up? You cannot just run a closed tender competition to exclude companies from outside Ireland - that would expose the GAA to a lawsuit!

Yes it would be nice if it was an Irish company won the contract but that's the way competition law works.

I don't see the hypocrisy tbh. Said American company will still employ people in Ireland, will still utilise local food suppliers etc, etc.

Tbh the hypocrisy would be more refusing the American company the contract considering the amount of US multinational money coming through the turnstiles every match (from Intel, HP, Schering, Pfitzer......).

Kristopherus

Tom Joad wrote: »

Are you sure about people getting the boot? - in my experience in this (and it's only my limited experience) when catering companies change a lot of times they retain the same staff!




Is the fact it's an American company relevant- are they going to fly over hoardes of americans and not employ any Irish people

Don't see the hypocrisy at all.

Do you know circumstances of Fitzers leaving and care to share?

Tbh without more info it sounds like a Joe Duffy ill informed "it's a disgrace Joe" rant.

By Law the new catering outfit have to give first refusal to the existing employees. But if the current outfit just close down and there's no continuity of employment, different arrangements may apply.

Tom Joad

Kristopherus wrote: »

By Law the new catering outfit have to give first refusal to the existing employees. But if the current outfit just close down and there's no continuity of employment, different arrangements may apply.

Thanks - now that you say it that's makes sense - its covered by Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employees AFAIK.

scottmcb04

If it went to tender then this is a bit silly is it not?

Are we meant to be disgraced that they asked outside companies for a competitive tender?

Fair play to the gaa for trying to get the best price instead of getting raped by some irish company!

Grudaire

Tom Joad wrote: »

The GAA is a commercial organisation and has therefore to follow certain corporate governance practices - whether they like it or not. One of these relates to tendering for contracts - I assume Fitzers' contract was up? You cannot just run a closed tender competition to exclude companies from outside Ireland - that would expose the GAA to a lawsuit!

Yes it would be nice if it was an Irish company won the contract but that's the way competition law works.

It really isn't how competition law works..

There's nothing stopping any private organisation choosing whoever they want.. there'd be fecking lawsuits everywhere if that wasn't the case ffs!

Wolf Club

That's a real pity, I used to live near Croke Park and I remember Fitzers used to send out application forms for people living in the area to work at games and events at Croke Park. It wasn't full time employment or anything but it was nice to see the company offering work to people in the area. I was unemployed at the time so getting offered work at Championship matches was very much appreciated and I think it benefitted a lot of people living in D3/D7.

Tom Joad

Cliste wrote: »

It really isn't how competition law works..

There's nothing stopping any private organisation choosing whoever they want.. there'd be fecking lawsuits everywhere if that wasn't the case ffs!

Yeah should have said procurement not competition law! AFAIK under procurement rules you have to have open tenders so you can't exclude companies just because they are Irish.

Grudaire

Tom Joad wrote: »

Yeah should have said procurement not competition law! AFAIK under procurement rules you have to have open tenders so you can't exclude companies just because they are Irish.

That only applies to public bodies.. and by public I mean state/government bodies.

If youcan link to anything that says something else then let me know!

DEFTLEFTHAND

Commercial enterprise, they can do what they like, they don't represent all things Irish. This is an organisation who permitted Rugby football to be played at their HQ and look set to go in with Vradkar and the IRFU's plan to host a RWC here even though most of the grounds outside of Croker are heavily terraced or benched or have exposed fold down seating. They are no way suitable for an international competition. Wheres that money coming from?

Caid influence and all.

Tom Joad

Cliste wrote: »

That only applies to public bodies.. and by public I mean state/government bodies.

If youcan link to anything that says something else then let me know!

As I've said previously on this thread am not claiming to be an expert on this I'm far from it but what I do know from my own limited experience is that the norm is to run tender competitions like these as open tender based on best practice in procurement. I don't know if that is the law or just best practice but the vast majority of catering tenders are done this way now irrespective of public or private body.

Secondly, staff are protected under Transfer of undertakings regulations so all existing staff are protected.

Thirdly, the GAA will earn a lot of money from this deal.

Fourthly, at least the company that won the contract might supply a decent service and quality rather than the sh1te slopped out by current incumbents.

Lastly, the big bad American company who won the tender have increased their Irish workforce by a significant amount since it took over the indigenous Irish company.

My first reaction when I read the OP was ill-informed rant and nothing I have read on this thread since has changed my mind.

Hank Schrader

Tom Joad wrote: »

As I've said previously on this thread am not claiming to be an expert on this I'm far from it but what I do know from my own limited experience is that the norm is to run tender competitions like these as open tender based on best practice in procurement. I don't know if that is the law or just best practice but the vast majority of catering tenders are done this way now irrespective of public or private body.

Secondly, staff are protected under Transfer of undertakings regulations so all existing staff are protected.

Thirdly, the GAA will earn a lot of money from this deal.

Fourthly, at least the company that won the contract might supply a decent service and quality rather than the sh1te slopped out by current incumbents.

Lastly, the big bad American company who won the tender have increased their Irish workforce by a significant amount since it took over the indigenous Irish company.

My first reaction when I read the OP was ill-informed rant and nothing I have read on this thread since has changed my mind.

Would like to see figures for this

The only point I made in the opening thread was about GAA hypocrisy in purporting to espouse all things Irish

If you consider that an "ill informed rant" then perhaps you should consider your own unacquainted ramblings ....moribund

LeoB

Iv no experience of the tendering process so Im only giving my opinion. I would agree with different bits of what people have posted but have to say some of the "JUNK" & "SH1T" I have been served in Croke Park has been disgusting so it cant get any worse.

From what Iv seen and read in the past we (Irish government) seem to be the only ones who run this tendering process strictly by the book. Take a look at the French, Spanish and English they appear to do what what they want when it comes to tenders. They just break them into smaller contracts and give local employment.

I think the G.A.A. and every other Irish body should be doing the same to keep jobs in Ireland and money going around our economy and not employing cheap foreign labour who FedEx money out of our country every day of the week. There is I believe an onus on the G.A.A to support Irish products and services because of the presence of the G.A.A. in every village in Ireland and the lift all of our communities would get from having a policy like it place would be a great boost.

The other thing I have thought about is why dont the G.A.A have their own catering company? Imagine the amount of work that could out to students or unemployed people when games are played at venues around the country

Clareman

I've a lot of experience of the tendering and outsourcing processes and I can't see a problem with what has happened here. It's not as if the GAA has broken any rules or industry standards, I'd imagine that after 8 years being in Croke Park Fitzers Catering got a bit complacent and probably had a lot of tenured staff which meant their rates weren't as low as the competition, but the incumbents will have the same problem when it comes up for renewal.

The fact (as I see it) is that Croke Park, not the GAA, put business out to tender and went with the best bid, simple as that.

Hank Schrader

Clareman wrote: »

I've a lot of experience of the tendering and outsourcing processes and I can't see a problem with what has happened here. It's not as if the GAA has broken any rules or industry standards, I'd imagine that after 8 years being in Croke Park Fitzers Catering got a bit complacent and probably had a lot of tenured staff which meant their rates weren't as low as the competition, but the incumbents will have the same problem when it comes up for renewal.

The fact (as I see it) is that Croke Park, not the GAA, put business out to tender and went with the best bid, simple as that.

And tell me this, who do think owns Croker ? Deary me

Hank Schrader

Hank Schrader wrote: »

And tell me this, who do think owns Croker ? Deary me

I thought so :rolleyes:

relaxed

Hank Schrader wrote: »

I thought so :rolleyes:

Perhaps Clareman was out boozing on New Years Eve when you posted that, maybe you should do more of the same.:)

Thomond Park for example has a stadium manager, his job is to make as much profit and as little loss as possible. These stadiums must be run professionally.

I believe Croke Park is the same, a stadium manager is tasked with running the place and making as much profit for the GAA as possible. It is not for the GAA to intervene in everything, stuff like Hawkeye and the grass for the pitch comes from the UK afaik.

Do you think the GAA should employ a few lads from the ploughing match to mow the turf in order to keep it all Irish?

ProudDUB

Clareman wrote: »

I've a lot of experience of the tendering and outsourcing processes and I can't see a problem with what has happened here. It's not as if the GAA has broken any rules or industry standards, I'd imagine that after 8 years being in Croke Park Fitzers Catering got a bit complacent and probably had a lot of tenured staff which meant their rates weren't as low as the competition, but the incumbents will have the same problem when it comes up for renewal.

Maybe the behind the scenes catering staff at Croker are older & tenured staff who they have to pay more. But the people serving the food are usually teenage kids, who are probably only there to earn pocket money. I'd bet the farm that they are paid a pittance.

Santa Cruz

ProudDUB wrote: »

Maybe the behind the scenes catering staff at Croker are older & tenured staff who they have to pay more. But the people serving the food are usually teenage kids, who are probably only there to earn pocket money. I'd bet the farm that they are paid a pittance.

They are paid the going rate for the position in the catering industry. Will you mind paying more for your burger if it meant the wage rates can go up?

ProudDUB

Santa Cruz wrote: »

They are paid the going rate for the position in the catering industry. Will you mind paying more for your burger if it meant the wage rates can go up?

Yes. If I could get a burger and chips at half time and be back in my seat in time for the start of the second half, I'd probably pay whatever they were charging for said burger & chips. The way things are now, I don't even bother, as I know the service is so slow, I'll miss some of the game if I stay in the queue to get my grub.

If they hired people who had the knowledge and experience of cranking out large amounts of food to large amounts of people, in as short a time frame as possible, they would probably have to pay them more than the kids who are just doing if for pocket money. But perhaps the increased sales would pay the bigger wage bill. The last time I left a queue when I heard the teams come back out for the second half, lots of other people did too. So I am not the only person whose business they are losing by having such an inefficient service.

Hank Schrader

relaxed wrote: »

Perhaps Clareman was out boozing on New Years Eve when you posted that, maybe you should do more of the same.:)

Thomond Park for example has a stadium manager, his job is to make as much profit and as little loss as possible. These stadiums must be run professionally.

I believe Croke Park is the same, a stadium manager is tasked with running the place and making as much profit for the GAA as possible. It is not for the GAA to intervene in everything, stuff like Hawkeye and the grass for the pitch comes from the UK afaik.

Do you think the GAA should employ a few lads from the ploughing match to mow the turf in order to keep it all Irish?

Jesus wept

Right over the head of another one :mad:


I agree 100% with your points.

My point is ....and try reading this slowly..... you cant say you promote all things Irish and then sack your Irish catering company for a foreign one

Clareman

1 and only warning Hank, adjust your aggressive/condescending posting style of face a ban from this forum.

Clareman

Hank Schrader wrote: »

you cant say you promote all things Irish and then sack your Irish catering company for a foreign one

How about you get an Irish catering company that will only use vending machines stocked with products not made in Ireland, that's not promoting all things Irish. I understand your problems with a supplier getting changed and I take it you are directly affected, but this is a business decision and without knowing all the facts it's not really possible to have a full and rational discussion about it.

Also, I don't know where the GAA says it promotes all things Irish, they aim to promote Gaelic Games.

Realt Dearg Sec

Hank Schrader wrote: »

Jesus wept

Right over the head of another one :mad:


I agree 100% with your points.

My point is ....and try reading this slowly..... you cant say you promote all things Irish and then sack your Irish catering company for a foreign one

Oh you're right there so you are. Feckers sold me walkers instead of tayto once. The dirty shower of tans.

Hank Schrader

Clareman wrote: »

1 and only warning Hank, adjust your aggressive/condescending posting style of face a ban from this forum.

Seriously ? because condescending seems to be rife in many of the replys toward me and condescending is the last image I'm going for here

Clareman wrote: »

How about you get an Irish catering company that will only use vending machines stocked with products not made in Ireland, that's not promoting all things Irish. I understand your problems with a supplier getting changed and I take it you are directly affected, but this is a business decision and without knowing all the facts it's not really possible to have a full and rational discussion about it.

Also, I don't know where the GAA says it promotes all things Irish, they aim to promote Gaelic Games.

Just please google or research any GAA site and it will tell you of it's Irish cultural policy. I don't want to c&p them here as it may be taken up the wrong way