What to do with Sheamus?

beakerjoe

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I'm not trying to single out anyone here, but wrestling fans by and large always seem to be complaining about who's on top. Seth Rollins - isn't booked dominantly. Brock Lesnar - part - timer who shouldn't have had the championship. John Cena - why does this guy have the title again? Daniel Bryan - they should have given it to him over a year ago. Thoughts?

From my own side, I want an entertaining pro wrestling product first an foremost. I couldn't care whos on top once Im entertained.

How a show or individual is booked in WWE can alter my enjoyment of the show, obviously.

Without going too far off topic, WWE is a product which is for most parts of it, lazily booked. Its a show Ive grown up with and one that Ive loved for many years. Ill complain because I believe they are capable of much better.

Sheamus, while positioned fairly high, is lazily booked, and I don't like seeing him as a result.

WWE is a product with so much potential yet it under-delivers 9 times out of ten in recent times. For every good thing they do, they do 9 bad things.

Stereomaniac

You see, I think it was actually always this lazily booked at various times throughout its history. Part of getting older is that the WWE's product becomes less relevant to people of our age I think. I always find something entertaining about the show, or else I wouldn't watch.

Ruu

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Oh see I thought that Ruu was saying something was hinted at on screen about him turning. Apologies once again, I can be a bit sensitive due to being questioned heavily previously.

I think it was slightly hinted here afterwards, seemed like a heelish interview. Then the next show, he was back to his happy go lucky self if I recall correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLwli4ReVy0

Stereomaniac

Oh yeah, I remember that now. He seemed more natural just there than he does these days.

DM_7

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I'm not trying to single out anyone here, but wrestling fans by and large always seem to be complaining about who's on top. Seth Rollins - isn't booked dominantly. Brock Lesnar - part - timer who shouldn't have had the championship. John Cena - why does this guy have the title again? Daniel Bryan - they should have given it to him over a year ago. Thoughts?

Alot of discussion generates around the negative things as its easier to talk, discuss, disagree about those things. Be that people agreeing and expanding on others thoughts or someone pointing out things that they feel actually point to something else.

When things are good, for example New day, it generates positive posts that others end up thanking as there is not much more to add to it without saying the same thing.

For what its worth the only example there I agree with is the Rollins one, who should be more dominant as champion. Should have grown into a credible champion.

For Sheamus, as we were talking about I like him, I like his wrestling style. He is booked on tv like its a house show and its one of the things WWE have struggled with for a while. House shows are like panto or cirque de soleil, fun with an audience only expecting light entertainment. TV needs to be more engaging to be a real success. Sheamus is not engaging or believable right now, much like the majority of other talented people they fail to write well for (Barrett, Stardust, Cesaro, Orton, Rusev and so on).

jaykhunter

Who's the worst for chopping Sheamus' chest into a beetroot red?

SureYWouldntYa

jaykhunter wrote: »

Who's the worst for chopping Sheamus' chest into a beetroot red?

imagine if he was in WWE when Benoit was around ? if they were in a program together his chest would go permanently red

Stereomaniac

DM_7 wrote: »

Alot of discussion generates around the negative things as its easier to talk, discuss, disagree about those things. Be that people agreeing and expanding on others thoughts or someone pointing out things that they feel actually point to something else.

When things are good, for example New day, it generates positive posts that others end up thanking as there is not much more to add to it without saying the same thing.

For what its worth the only example there I agree with is the Rollins one, who should be more dominant as champion. Should have grown into a credible champion.

For Sheamus, as we were talking about I like him, I like his wrestling style. He is booked on tv like its a house show and its one of the things WWE have struggled with for a while. House shows are like panto or cirque de soleil, fun with an audience only expecting light entertainment. TV needs to be more engaging to be a real success. Sheamus is not engaging or believable right now, much like the majority of other talented people they fail to write well for (Barrett, Stardust, Cesaro, Orton, Rusev and so on).

Thanks for your response. Does anyone else enjoy if wrestling is a bit unbelievable?

Lord TSC

RTE have an interview with Sheamus next Tuesday at 10pm. Came in on the ad just there. Seems to be some girl sitting down and chatting with him about his career.

Stereomaniac

When you see things like that it's hard not to feel some sort of pride I think. That was the thing that appeared on their trailer of what was coming this year on RTÉ I'd say. Sounds good.

Pentecost

Is that the one with yer one Angela Scanlon? She was over to the US to film it with him I recall.

Stereomaniac

I'd imagine that's what it is. There was a picture of the two of them on Twitter there recently.

jaykhunter

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Thanks for your response. Does anyone else enjoy if wrestling is a bit unbelievable?

I grew up with 80s WWF so I'm quite partial to the ridiculous stuff; like when Orton hallucinated his dad's head bleeding as part of Taker's mind games, that kind of cheese! It wouldn't many dimes but at least one from me

Palo Alto

Bring back Vader's White Castle of Fear!

jaykhunter

Palo Alto wrote: »

Bring back Vader's White Castle of Fear!

Oh man, when was this mini-movie shown in full? Probably not at a PPV or COTC. It's one of those things I've seen bits and pieces of.

Raven Runner

Sheamus should leave WWE spends a few years with New Japan and then comback to WWE his style would fit Japan

Palo Alto

jaykhunter wrote: »

Oh man, when was this mini-movie shown in full? Probably not at a PPV or COTC. It's one of those things I've seen bits and pieces of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7XhwNT7U5s

Monokne

Raven Runner wrote: »

Sheamus should leave WWE spends a few years with New Japan and then comback to WWE his style would fit Japan

I think sometimes there's a misconception amongst fans of American wrestling that just being a half decent worker is enough to get you over in Japan. It's not. Guys like Okada, Nakamura and Tanahsahi have got real star presence.


Sheamus has zero personality or presence. He's a black hole that sucks the charisma out of everything he touches. He'd go to Japan and just be a guy on the card like Shelton Benjamin was, if he could get the gig.

LeeJM

I think sometimes fans dont realise just how huge Sheamus is. He would easily get a massive push from NJPW. It wouldnt surprise me in the least to see him get a Vader style dominant heavyweight gajin push. And Sheamus has plenty of personality and presence, to compare him to Shelton is laughable. AJ Styles has zero personality and he won the IWGP title in his first major NJPW match.

Palo Alto

Zero personality? Did you watch the recent NJPW press conference? AJ is on fire!

beakerjoe

Im critical of Sheamus but he does have charisma, he just cant cut a promo that doesnt sound like hes working in a Panto.

And AJ Styles is very charismatic, hes just no Ric Flair on the mic.

LeeJM

Palo Alto wrote: »

Zero personality? Did you watch the recent NJPW press conference? AJ is on fire!

Honestly no I havnt but I was more basing the AJ comparison on his US work previously.

Loughc

beakerjoe wrote: »

And AJ Styles is very charismatic, hes just no Ric Flair on the mic.

Try telling that to TNA.

Monokne

LeeJM wrote: »

I think sometimes fans dont realise just how huge Sheamus is. He would easily get a massive push from NJPW. It wouldnt surprise me in the least to see him get a Vader style dominant heavyweight gajin push. And Sheamus has plenty of personality and presence, to compare him to Shelton is laughable.

You've confused "I personally like him" with him having any personality or presence. He's been pushed to the moon over and over yet still the people react with a healthy dose of COMPLETE APATHY when he shows his face.

Face it, there's almost no one who doesn't outrank fella in the charisma stakes, not even..
This inanimate carbon rod!


In Rod We Trust.

LeeJM

Monokne wrote: »

You've confused "I personally like him" with him having any personality or presence. He's been pushed to the moon over and over yet still the people react with a healthy dose of COMPLETE APATHY when he shows his face.

Face it, there's almost no one who doesn't outrank fella in the charisma stakes, not even..
This inanimate carbon rod!


In Rod We Trust.

See I knew that was gonna be your big retort that I personally like, I was even gonna include it in my first response. It seems that according to some the only possible reason posters on here like Stephen Farrelly the wrestler is that he happens to be Irish. Not true at all. Stephen Farrelly is a top class wrestler with tonnes of charisma, personality and presence. He would be a top draw in pretty much any company world wide at any time in the last 20-30 years.

Sheamus the character in WWE, I can take or leave at the moment. He has no meaningful feuds or direction and is suffering because of that. Still doesnt mean he isnt charismatic and that his personality doesnt shine through all the crap WWE give him at times.

I actually think Sheamus is penalised by some on here because he is Irish. They feel he should be held to a higher standard and for that reason fail to recognise how good he actually is.

Monokne

Ok, here is a simple, cold hard fact. In 2012, Sheamus was pushed to the moon and protected incredibly strongly in booking during his babyface run as champion, and he still never ever got over. The entire plan was to build Sheamus up as number 2 on the babyface side so that they could turn Orton heel and Sheamus would be the top guy on one tour with Cena the top guy on the other. But the numbers they drew with Sheamus on top were very poor and so Orton couldn't be turned at the time .

If you get the entire promotional machine behind you and get protected that much and you don't draw s**t and the people don't care about your matches, you can't claim he's a draw. It's just factually not true. Imagine how Daniel Bryan or Kevin Owens would connect with that push. These are men with charisma. Sheamus has nothing. He's just a large bottle of milk.

The guy cannot cut a promo. He's been protected on the main roster for 5 years. Name me the promo that drew money or that made you desperate to see his match. It doesn't exist.

He is a terrific worker. I find the guy so bloody tedious and yet he will often get me invested in his matches because his work is so solid and that is to his absolute credit. But I'm not going to confuse that with charisma or presence when the guy has none.

beakerjoe

LeeJM wrote: »

See I knew that was gonna be your big retort that I personally like, I was even gonna include it in my first response. It seems that according to some the only possible reason posters on here like Stephen Farrelly the wrestler is that he happens to be Irish. Not true at all. Stephen Farrelly is a top class wrestler with tonnes of charisma, personality and presence. He would be a top draw in pretty much any company world wide at any time in the last 20-30 years.

While I agree with your post for the most part, I don't think this is true.

Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, Brock lesnar, Ric Flair, Steamboat, and I can list others are what I'd consider top draws.

Sheamus would have to change dramaticly to be included with that group.

Hes a good wrestler, capable of decent matches, but hes only had a handful of 4 star matches in my eyes. (his match with D-Bryan at Extreme Rules, His match with Big Show at TLC (Which is some feat BTW) and maybe 1 or two others). Hes a solid wrestler but he's not capable of being called a potential top draw yet.

jaykhunter

Not all charisma is promos, dude carries himself like a superstar - I'd have him akin to Batista, who has incredible physical charisma and look, and not much in the way of anything else. Took him about 7 years to finally click! Aul Shambo has been given generally terrible gimmicks and promos, and he does very well with what he has. I'd hope everyone isn't surprised about how much he's 'improved' whenever he gets a better gimmick/promo. He's also a great brawler, but that doesn't mean that much when you're fighting Orton over and over again for no reason, in the era of high workrate with people like Owens and Cesaro around!

Ruu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAQ21A-Cvbw

Monokne

jaykhunter wrote: »

Not all charisma is promos, dude carries himself like a superstar - I'd have him akin to Batista, who has incredible physical charisma and look, and not much in the way of anything else. Took him about 7 years to finally click! Aul Shambo has been given generally terrible gimmicks and promos, and he does very well with what he has.

Batista got his big push in 2005 & clicked immediately. He and Hunter did huge numbers at Wrestlemania 21 and the following pay per views and he did good numbers carrying the Smackdown brand for years. His babyface act left me kind of cold, but he clicked with the people and it absolutely didn't take 7 years..

As for ginge, between January & December 2012, Sheamus was pushed as the 2nd to top babyface in the entire company, getting the biggest babyface push in years and years:
He won the Royal Rumble.
He won the world title at Wrestlemania.
He held the world title for 6 months+.
He was massively protected in the booking, with multiple clean wins over Bryan, Henry, Del Rio, Big Show, Randy Orton & Chris Jericho all year.
He did just 3 pinfall jobs all year.

At the end of it all, he was so over that by the time Wrestlemania came around in 2013 he was in a meaningless tag match on the undercard.

But yeah, it's the booking. If he was just booked right eh? :o:o:D:D:D