Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Going Strong

SamAK wrote: »

.....don't you think you're taking a bit too much interest in silly little details? So he calls Pinkham 'Pinky'....so what? Everyone calls him Crofty. Does that annoy you?

I just got to watch Bahrain and really bloody enjoyed it. Good fun, and the way the last three races have gone is showing that a lot of the pre-season doomsday predictions made by some were nothing but hot air.

Whenever I come on here I see people determined to poke holes and find fault with what seems like every single aspect of F1, be it the racing, the rules, the noise, the noses, the presenters and their nicknames....blah blah blah, and on it goes.

Is it supposed to be perfect?

Really? I find this place to be quite even-handed and generally a pleasant place to discuss F1. Far better than certain F1-dedicated websites full of people twisting the facts to fit their like/dislike for a team or driver.

Gillespy

It's a lot more fun to be negative, generally that's what forums are like outside appreciation threads. It's been relatively quiet here since Sunday compared to after Malaysia. Not many meltdowns to deal with, thank god.:)

Santan wrote: »

Guys Im sorry but 1 race, a season does not make. Granted that was one of the better races in the last 2 seasons but i think that is what is wrong now, look at how excited we get, even when lets be honest we knew, at least what team was going to win the race before it even started, having grown up with this sport over the last 30 odd years, seeing cars going so much slower than free practise, I cant remember the last time i saw a driver get out of the car and have a drop of sweat on him after 60 odd laps, well it most be one of the only sports other than chess, that doesnt have the participant pushing his body to the limit at times, that to me is sport, not coasting around for all those laps and just pushing for the first 2. I love this sport but it is getting harder every race.

Are you cereal? Drivers don't come out drenched in sweat anymore because of the science involved in their diet and fitness, did you catch the piece Mark Webber did for the BBC? You love the sport, but only the romanticized idea of it you have in your head. The reality today is pretty interesting too if given a chance. There's the technical side and seeing how the development race pans out and there's the interteam championship battle at Mercedes.

Santan

yes there is a lot of bashing of the sport over the last 2 years with the dominance of red bull and vettle and the lack of racing and passing, all of which myself and a lot of my mates involved in racing have been annoyed over but never made us turn off from watching F1, but this year I feel it is different, we all see that the last race was much more entertaining, but in general it is not, im not saying you cant enjoy it for yourself I hope you do, im just so disappointed that I dont anymore. I always enjoyed the tactics and the engineering that made the battles between teams, and yes that will always remain, but im sick of watching 1 or now 2 cars go from the off and lead every lap without ever having to really push, and storming home to 30 and 40 second leads, there is not much enjoyment in that

ScumLord

Santan wrote: »

but im sick of watching 1 or now 2 cars go from the off and lead every lap without ever having to really push, and storming home to 30 and 40 second leads, there is not much enjoyment in that

Does the rest of the field mean nothing? It's the nature of formula 1 that the car in front is going to have a better performing car, everything is in it's favour. At least the new cars bring in some limits to stop the lead car from being able to pull away without consequence.

The reduced rear traction is what's made the sport more exciting this year, it requires more driver skill or at the very least a different type of driver skill. The first few races are going to be unpredictable until the drivers get more of a handle on the new cars.

Going Strong

McLaren and Red Bull are in a legal tussle over the future of aerodynamics expert Dan Fallows.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26951076

ZiabR

Going Strong wrote: »

McLaren and Red Bull are in a legal tussle over the future of aerodynamics expert Dan Fallows.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/26951076

Hmm, will have to see where this goes, Newey seems to be against the entire grid at the moment. You heard the Tech Directors interview before the Bahrain race. It was Newey Vs the other Tech Directors.

Going Strong

logik wrote: »

Hmm, will have to see where this goes, Newey seems to be against the entire grid at the moment. You heard the Tech Directors interview before the Bahrain. It was Newey Vs the other Tech Directors.

I missed that. It was reported, back at the second Bahrain pre-season testing session that Newey had to be almost dragged away from Renault's man on the spot when Red Bull were experiencing all their problems.

H3llR4iser

Gillespy wrote: »

...
Are you cereal? Drivers don't come out drenched in sweat anymore because of the science involved in their diet and fitness, did you catch the piece Mark Webber did for the BBC? You love the sport, but only the romanticized idea of it you have in your head. The reality today is pretty interesting too if given a chance. There's the technical side and seeing how the development race pans out and there's the interteam championship battle at Mercedes.

Exactly; Back in the day, Ayrton Senna first and Michael Schumacher after him, used to come out of their cars looking fresh compared to their colleagues. Was it that their cars where easier to drive? Nope, it was mostly the higher focus they put on their training and diet making the difference.

It goes without saying that when the sport noticed the benefits of improved fitness, every single driver followed suit.

Santan wrote: »

yes there is a lot of bashing of the sport over the last 2 years with the dominance of red bull and vettle and the lack of racing and passing, all of which myself and a lot of my mates involved in racing have been annoyed over but never made us turn off from watching F1, but this year I feel it is different, we all see that the last race was much more entertaining, but in general it is not, im not saying you cant enjoy it for yourself I hope you do, im just so disappointed that I dont anymore. I always enjoyed the tactics and the engineering that made the battles between teams, and yes that will always remain, but im sick of watching 1 or now 2 cars go from the off and lead every lap without ever having to really push, and storming home to 30 and 40 second leads, there is not much enjoyment in that

It's the cycles in the sport; Very few complained in 2002 and 2004, when the Ferraris has such an advantage they could have coasted through the races.

Watch out 'though, we aren't necessarily in for a season utterly dominated by Mercedes: they still have to prove they can develop the car at the same rate of the other top teams, especially Red Bull. I wouldn't put it in the realm of the impossible for the Bulls to catch up later in the season, if Renault makes some progress on their power unit.

Mitch Connor

H3llR4iser wrote: »

f Renault makes some progress on their power unit.

what progress are they allowed to make? Thought only reliability changes to the engine could be made now - no performance changes.

cadaliac

RBR or Ferrari won't be too far behind in development.

While i find the lack of sound maddening and the strategies over fuel regulations infuriating, the last race was great to watch.

Yes there was a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak (in relation to procession races over the past few years) but it was still good to watch. I have to agree that we weren't complaining when Ferrari were dominating and the RBR fans weren't complaining for the last 4 years.

They regularly change the rules of the sport to stop domination by a team or driver. This is primarily for TV audiences.
It happened to Shumacher and it has happened to Vettel now it seems also.
Changes were coming in regardless, as i do not mean that the changes were specifically introduced to stop individuals. But, moreover changes will be made regularly to stop the single team or individual domination and hence keep a wider audience.

H3llR4iser

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what progress are they allowed to make? Thought only reliability changes to the engine could be made now - no performance changes.

It can get a bit complicated - while the rules state a technical "freeze" on the performance side, this doesn't necessarily happen as a manufacturer can apply to make changes on specific grounds:

1. Reliability - no need to explain this;

2. Costs - to prevent a third party to start charge more and more for a specific component because it's "locked in" in the rules and can't be changed, e.g. a third party selling valves to Mercedes starts to charge double for them, simply because the manufacturer can't use a different component by the rules.

There is a third potential way, and that is for the FIA to allow some changes in the "interest of the sport", in case one manufacturer has fallen dramatically behind in terms of development.

More realistically however, it seems to me that most of the woes Renault are experiencing are actually down to reliability concerns, thus being unable to run the engine at full potential - improve that, and they might be able to extract more from the unit.

Ferrari seems to be a different story - and they look like they're behind Renault as well in terms of pure power; As they DID concentrate on reliability, I am not really sure how it will pan out...

KarlFitz01

:P

LEIN

KarlFitz01 wrote: »

:P

_rebelkid

FIA grants Gene Haas Formula 1 Entry.

Myrddin

_rebelkid wrote: »

FIA grants Gene Haas Formula 1 Entry.

Competition for Chilton? Joking aside, it's great there'll be another team...hopefully they hit the ground running

smellslikeshoes

Would have been an absolute travesty if they weren't given the go ahead, not many newcomers to F1 already have one of the worlds best windtunnels.

_rebelkid

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Would have been an absolute travesty if they weren't given the go ahead, not many newcomers to F1 already have one of the worlds best windtunnels.

A wind tunnel that they can't use for F1. A Full Size Tunnel is banned.

smellslikeshoes

_rebelkid wrote: »

A wind tunnel that they can't use for F1. A Full Size Tunnel is banned.

It's the actual model size that's restricted to 60%, I don't see how that would effect them using the wind tunnel even if it is designed to run full size.

mickdw

_rebelkid wrote: »

A wind tunnel that they can't use for F1. A Full Size Tunnel is banned.

How can they stop them gaining benefit from it though. Surely from even testing random models in both tunnels, you would zone in on correction factors between full and half or 3/4 size very quickly gaining an advantage over other teams.

smellslikeshoes

FIA are considering a team called forza-rossa, lots of speculation going around that it could be a Ferrari junior team.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/11/fia-accepts-haas-team-entry-considers-forza-rossa/

Zcott

Haas was one of three teams that applied, with one of the others being a Romanian team. This could be it.

Edit, found this:

The driving force behind the Romanian project is Ion Bazac, a qualified doctor and former Romanian health minister. The 45-year-old has a number of business interests and is the country’s Ferrari importer, under the name Forza Rossa – an ironic twist given that the rival Haas project is Ferrari-backed. He’s also a past chairman of loan company Global Finance & Leasing.

He is the president a consortium of private and state funded investors whose motive is to promote the interests of Romania, and who have the support of the government.

PopePalpatine

I wonder how long it will be before there's a UAE-backed team. You'd imagine that it would happen before Romania back a team.

Zcott

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder how long it will be before there's a UAE-backed team. You'd imagine that it would happen before Romania back a team.

I read this and tried to work out a few reasons why there isn't a UAE-backed team. The only thing I can assume is that with sponsorship of good teams (i.e. Ferrari being sponsored by Emirates) and hosting a race they've decided that's better value than running their own team to sit at the back of the grid for a few years. Getting people to the region is surely their goal and having a GP there is probably working for them.

Edit: are Ferrari actually sponsored by emirates or did I make that up?

Edit 2: no, but they signed a five year deal to sponsor loads of races, so that's even better.

Jordan 199

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLDCVD6v1s

Cookie_Monster

Zcott wrote: »

I read this and tried to work out a few reasons why there isn't a UAE-backed team. .

can you gold plate a F1 car and mount it on 22 inch platinum rims?

losthorizon

I'm into History among other things. On the Sunday of this festival there are interesting lectures on Motorsport in Ireland including the former F1 race that used to be held in Ireland and that was discontinued.

Unfortunately the Canadian GP is on the same day but it actually does not start till 7.00pm so you could skip the last talk or leave early (or it might finish in time) and still be able to see it.

http://thehistoryfestivalofireland.ie/programme/

Zcott

Red Bull's FIA hearing today.

MS.ing

Zcott wrote: »

Red Bull's FIA hearing today.

its a done deal only ever going to go one way. against them. they have no case

Zcott

Apparently Stefano Domenicali has resigned this morning. Well that was unexpected...

mickdw

Zcott wrote: »

Apparently Stefano Domenicali has resigned this morning. Well that was unexpected...

Well they are nowhere this season, possibly time to go.

Myrddin

Surprised he resigned so soon (if true)...I knew though it things didn't pick up for Ferrari he would have to go.

Daniel S

MS.ing wrote: »

its a done deal only ever going to go one way. against them. they have no case

Any chance of Dan getting his points, but not the team?

Donnelly117

Zcott wrote: »

Apparently Stefano Domenicali has resigned this morning. Well that was unexpected...

Anyone got a link to this?

Nevermind, Theres quite a bit of news on Twitter on this. Looks like Ross Brawn and Flavio Briatore are the top two rumored successors at the moment.

thirteen.

Not surprising given the start Ferrari have had to the season. He was already on thin ice given the relative lack of success over the last few years, with the rule changes and two world champions driving for them being passed repeatedly by a Force India isn't good enough return for the budget the team have.

Zcott

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Anyone got a link to this?

Just an Italian blog, but it's being reported by a few well connected journos.

http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2014/04/14/domenicali-si-e-dimesso-arriva-mattiacci/

Donnelly117

Zcott wrote: »

Just an Italian blog, but it's being reported by a few well connected journos.

http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2014/04/14/domenicali-si-e-dimesso-arriva-mattiacci/

Lot of mentions of Flavio and Ross Brawn in there!

thirteen.

I'd be a lot happier if Flavio's ban had never been overturned. Shouldn't be anywhere near the sport.

Myrddin

OSI wrote: »

Yep, I will lose a lot of respect for Ferrari if Flavio ends up as team boss.

When was his ban overturned? I thought he was banned for life

thirteen.

Myrddin wrote: »

When was his ban overturned? I thought he was banned for life

Overturned in French court a few years ago.

SnowDrifts

Funny how people forget that Pat Symonds was equally involved in the Piquet crashgate. Agree with posters above... would be a shame to see Flavio at Ferrari.

lolie

They were rumours on twitter about it a few days ago.
Ferrari might be thinking they have a better chance of keeping Alonso next year if Briatore is in charge.

Donnelly117

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Funny how people forget that Pat Symonds was equally involved in the Piquet crashgate. Agree with posters above... would be a shame to see Flavio at Ferrari.

Symonds was never given a life ban though was he? I though he got a 5 year ban and Briatore was banned for life. I dont think he should ever be left near an FIA event. Let alone in charge of Ferrari...

cadaliac

Ross is the kiddie - I for one would love to see him back a Ferrari.

Daniel S

Stefano out, it has been confirmed, with Mattiaci as his temporary replacement.

ZiabR

thirteen. wrote: »

I'd be a lot happier if Flavio's ban had never been overturned. Shouldn't be anywhere near the sport.

Agreed here, there is no place for him in F1.

Zcott

Probably a good time to ditch an under performing team boss because they'll be starting to concentrate on next year's car. Any later and it could be 2016 before a new principal would have an impact.

ZiabR

Daniel S wrote: »

Stefano out, it has been confirmed, with Mattiaci as his temporary replacement.

Sad for Stefano, liked him, seemed like an approachable guy but something did have to give in Ferrari and the buck stopped with him so to speak so he had to go.

mickdw

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Funny how people forget that Pat Symonds was equally involved in the Piquet crashgate. Agree with posters above... would be a shame to see Flavio at Ferrari.

Symonds is a different character to flavio.
Max Mosley said Symonds was honest to a fault and did not even attempt to bull**** his way out when the fixing was discovered. Flavio on the other hand....
I think its reasonably clear that Symonds was not the driving force behind the cheating idea.

Brawn back to Ferrari would be interesting. Wonder does he have the stomach for another spell. Championship 2017 would be a good bet based on past performance.

KarlFitz01

I would like to see Ross back at Ferrari.

Tippex

MS.ing wrote: »

its a done deal only ever going to go one way. against them. they have no case

Interesting from grandprix.com

Mercedes blasts Red Bull at Paris appeal

Title rival Mercedes on Monday was highly critical of world champions Red Bull's behaviour, as the appeal hearing in Paris began.

Red Bull is appealing Daniel Ricciardo's disqualification from the Australian grand prix for ignoring the mandatory sensor governing fuel flow.

Red Bull's lawyer argued that the Gill-supplied sensor was "faulty" and that is why it fell back on its own measurements, but the legal representative for Mercedes hit back that what occurred in Melbourne was a "flagrant breach" of the regulations.

"Red Bull thinks it is entitled to pick and choose between the measurements," the Mercedes lawyer was quoted by the Associated Press as telling the court.

Using near-identical words, the FIA lawyer agreed: "A team cannot pick and choose."

He added: "The essence of sport is the contest on a level playing field and you can't have that unless everyone abide by the rules."

According to Reuters news agency, the Mercedes lawyer said the five-judge panel might in fact increase the penalty against Red Bull in its decision on Monday.

Also present at the Paris hearing are representatives for McLaren, Lotus, Williams and Force India.