Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Arthur Beesley

walshb wrote: »

I seem to recall that Mansell and Williams had a similar start to the '92 season. Mansell won the first 4-5 races. But yes, almost 1-2 for Mercedes in the first 5 races seems to be the best result ever to date. This car dominance takes away from the real duels in the sport. Take Vettel, just how great is he? Done nothing this season, and is even trailing his team-mate. Monaco should show us more competition. The power advantage that Mercedes has will be negated somewhat.

So you judge Vettel on 4 races (obviously excluding his DNF)...

Mitch Connor

walshb wrote: »

I seem to recall that Mansell and Williams had a similar start to the '92 season. Mansell won the first 4-5 races. But yes, almost 1-2 for Mercedes in the first 5 races seems to be the best result ever to date. This car dominance takes away from the real duels in the sport. Take Vettel, just how great is he? Done nothing this season, and is even trailing his team-mate. Monaco should show us more competition. The power advantage that Mercedes has will be negated somewhat.

if they get a 1-2 in quali, I don't see anyone having the pace to get past them in the race, though you would imagine the winning margin won't be as comfortable.

Gillespy

The fact it has taken Lewis four races to overturn one DNF and with no challenger in sight neither can afford a DNF, it will be interesting to see their approach to the barriers in Monaco.

walshb

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

So you judge Vettel on 4 races (obviously excluding his DNF)...

Well, 4/4 and he hasn't done much. What else can I judge him on at this point in time?

PopePalpatine

walshb wrote: »

Well, 4/4 and he hasn't done much. What else can I judge him on at this point in time?

He's in a car which is the second best in the field, with a big gap to the Mercs.

Not that any reasoning will convince the rabid participants of the anti-Vettel circlejerk, of course...:rolleyes:

Frank Bullitt

I think maybe in the second half of the season we might begin to see the field close up on Merc, but not in the next few races.

errlloyd

Gintonious wrote: »

I think maybe in the second half of the season we might begin to see the field close up on Merc, but not in the next few races.

To be honest, they all got huge packages for Spain, and the gap looked bigger than ever. The Law of Diminishing returns usually means that teams will close the gap, but it doesn't apply in this case because the engines aren't being improved they're frozen. The Merc engine is a few percent better and it will be all season. If anything the Merc's aero package is probably worse and has more room for improvement than Red Bulls

Peanut Butter Jelly

errlloyd wrote: »

To be honest, they all got huge packages for Spain, and the gap looked bigger than ever. The Law of Diminishing returns usually means that teams will close the gap, but it doesn't apply in this case because the engines aren't being improved they're frozen. The Merc engine is a few percent better and it will be all season. If anything the Merc's aero package is probably worse and has more room for improvement than Red Bulls

That is and isn't true.

The FIA take one power unit from each supplier and lock it away in a box. This is the reference point for the FIA and the technical delegates if they feel that a supplier is making unannounced changes to it. This homologation of the power unit does in a sense "freeze" it, but the suppliers can make changes if the upgrades make the power unit more reliable, cheaper to manufacture or are safer in use. The suppliers will make performance upgrades with all of these changes as for example, a turbo casing that is stronger and better at retaining the turbine parts in a failure, could also aid in cooling or let the turbine run at a higher speed thus increasing performance.

So the engines are never really "frozen".

Arthur Beesley

walshb wrote: »

Well, 4/4 and he hasn't done much. What else can I judge him on at this point in time?

His career...not sure what 4/4 means, presumably times he was beaten by his team mate this year? Although his team mate didn't finish those 4 races, so it can't be that. Can't be qualifying since this was race 5.

Did his team mate have a gearbox failure and need it to be replaced in Spain? Did his team mate make up 11 places in the race?

We could pick 4 races that make Alonso or Hamilton or even Senna look average, but that would be childish.

walshb

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

His career...not sure what 4/4 means, presumably times he was beaten by his team mate this year? Although his team mate didn't finish those 4 races, so it can't be that. Can't be qualifying since this was race 5.

Did his team mate have a gearbox failure and need it to be replaced in Spain? Did his team mate make up 11 places in the race?

We could pick 4 races that make Alonso or Hamilton or even Senna look average, but that would be childish.

Sorry, should have been 5/5. 5 races and hasn't really got going.

ZiabR

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, should have been 5/5. 5 races and hasn't really got going.

Yes but you cannot blame Vettel for that. He has had rotten luck this year so far. It seems every weekend he suffers another issue with the car and sadly because these are new cars any problem that stops the car from running is usually a big one. I am NOT a Vettel fan before you say I am taking sides but we cannot judge him properly Vs his teammate when it has not been an even playing field. I thought Vettel drove an amazing race in Spain.

Going Strong

Gillespy wrote: »

What kind of advantage did those McLarens have over the rest?

Apart from having Prost and Senna driving them? Well, it was the last year of the turbo engine in F1 (until now) so, most of the turbo teams just went with a barely updated version of their 1987 car. Williams lost their Honda turbos and Ferrari were in a mess (plus la change). McLaren were the only team to build a brand new car for the 1988 season and reaped the rewards of Williams' work developing the Honda engine.

Arthur Beesley

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, should have been 5/5. 5 races and hasn't really got going.

What do mean by 5/5 though?

Cookie_Monster

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

What do mean by 5/5 though?

5 races season to date.

walshb

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

What do mean by 5/5 though?

In 5 of 5 races Vettell hasn't really got going!

Gillespy

On the podium in Malaysia and driver of the race in Spain, 15th to 4th.

Context, by your logic Hamilton is the only legit world champion out of the five in the field if it's based on this season.

Arthur Beesley

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

5 races season to date.

Means nothing though.

Myrddin

4 World Championships & people still feel he needs to prove himself? Painful stuff. Now, he hasn't hit the ground running this season through a mixture of unreliability & just not being able to 'gel' with the car the way Ricciardo seems to have done. That's fair enough, not every driver can immediately master different styles of driving. Horner was saying Vettel was having trouble getting the car to react to entering the corners, & they weren't able to make the car behave like his last few cars in this area...he'll get it though, I've no doubt there.

His 15th to 4th was impressive, though it has to be said it was greatly aided by the much faster three stop strategy...something that surprised many of the front running teams on a two stop strategy. But to be fair, he pulled off some great overtakes while doing it, so fair dues.

Arthur Beesley

walshb wrote: »

In 5 of 5 races Vettell hasn't really got going!

Vettel completed 3 laps before retiring in Australia, his qualifying was hampered by software issues. Hardly his fault, so should it not be 4/4?

He finished 3rd in Malaysia behind the all conquering Mercedes duo, so should it not be 3/4?

He came from 15th to 4th in Spain. So should it not now be 2/4?

Still don't understand why you specifically picked out Vettel though. We can say the same about most drivers on the grid. Alonso has had one podium, so is he 4/5 in your book? Ricciardo has had one podium finish officially, so is he 4/5 in your book?

:rolleyes:

Mitch Connor

any talk from the Spain test today? Anyone trying new upgrades and looking better etc?

Gillespy

It's dry now after a wet start. I want to know how the new exhausts sound.

_rebelkid

Not a lot of info. Mostly aero tests. Buemi crashed a while ago.

_rebelkid

New exhausts aren't being run until tomorrow.

_rebelkid

CHILTON HAS JUST SET THE FASTEST LAP OF THE DAY! 1:26.434.

Gillespy

He did 1' 29.586 when it mattered on Saturday. That's a massive difference.

_rebelkid

Gillespy wrote: »

He did 1' 29.586 when it mattered on Saturday. That's a massive difference.

And this lap was on Super Softs. But still, seeing Chilton on the top of a time sheet and it not being Tom in WTCC, it's a bit "rare"...

Gillespy

I figured tyres would be different, Mercedes aren't quaking in their boots yet. :pac:

Have to give it up to Chillton, he has been mixing it with Bianci a lot more this year and bringing the car home every time is a big thing to a small team too.

Frank Bullitt

Raikkonen must have run over a heard of black cats to get this type of luck.

_rebelkid

A wild Mercedes exhaust was spotted...



via Nicola Pohl from BILD

Gillespy

If it works and appeases the fans it will be one simple fix.

Are there any implications to it in terms of power or weight even?

Mike Litoris

Chilton Rules!:cool:

ZiabR

Gillespy wrote: »

If it works and appeases the fans it will be one simple fix.

Are there any implications to it in terms of power or weight even?

I would doubt there are any implications to power. It may weigh a few ounces more than the current design.

Sterling Archer

I said this the first time they were on about the noise of the cars, a simple back box or straight pipe :pac: will end up being the solution

Robbo

Surely there should be a job lot of vuvuzelas hanging around somewhere that could be bought on the cheap?

christy c

Rachael Brooks tweeted that there isn't much of a difference in sound

ZiabR

christy c wrote: »

Rachael Brooks tweeted that there isn't much of a difference in sound

Shame, thought it would be a quick fix.

muckwarrior

I could be wrong, but pretty sure I read that Marussia had one updated and one old car in Spain. Bianchi drove the new one on Friday, Chilton on Saturday. Dunno who drove it on Sunday, but I reckon it would explain why Chilton managed to be quicker than his team mate for a change.

SnowDrifts

So they introduce new regulations that they know will quieten F1, suffer the inevitable backlash and come up with this solution. Comical.

ZiabR

Sorry but that looks BRUTAL:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/310687/mercedes-trials-megaphone-exhaust/

Bandit 6

yeah looks like a horn

counterlock

They should just drill a hole in it. Worked a treat on my old fiesta

Mike Litoris

counterlock wrote: »

They should just drill a hole in it. Worked a treat on my old fiesta

Hehe. I had an aul' 97 Fiat Brava like that. It sounded epic.:p

Any clips on youtube or reports back about the sound? I'm in work and cant access stuff like that.

Jordan 199

It looks like Mercedes just shoved a funnel into the exhaust.

_rebelkid

Mike Litoris wrote: »

Hehe. I had an aul' 97 Fiat Brava like that. It sounded epic.:p

Any clips on youtube or reports back about the sound? I'm in work and cant access stuff like that.

Not any real difference according to Rachel Brookes from Sky, and Nicola Pohl from BILD.

ScumLord

The trumpet exhaust looks brutal, you've got this car with it's sleek lines that evolved in a wind tunnel and then this big lump of an exhaust sticking out the back.

I'm assuming the hot gases coming out the back mean it's not so much of an air obstruction but that looks like it would slow a car down.

Myrddin

Dreadful looking thing, I'm actually glad there's not much difference as hopefully it'll be canned now.

PopePalpatine

Maybe it's meant as some sort of taunt to the other teams, as if to say, "Hey, we're sticking on this very unaerodynamic funnel onto the end of our car, and it's STILL faster than you!"

Gillespy

World class acoustic engineers and aerodynamicists working in perfect harmony.:pac:

Maldonado topped the charts today and over 100 laps too. It would be great if they found money and kick on from here.

Bianci slowest. Puts into context Chillton's heroics yesterday.:p

Zcott

Maybe they should attach an actual trumpet to the rear to see how that goes. Could be an interesting tune...

Frank Bullitt