Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Frank Bullitt

I think it was Dominicali who urged him to think about going to Catherham this year, if he hadnt, he would be third driver for Ferrari and still racing for them in sportscars.

I think that might just be it for him in F1, although I hope not cause he was mega to watch, but as it has been mentioned, money talks.

Grim.

delighted to see lotterer get a drive pitty its in such a bag of ****e

Jordan 199

Gintonious wrote: »

I think it was Dominicali who urged him to think about going to Catherham this year, if he hadnt, he would be third driver for Ferrari and still racing for them in sportscars.

I think that might just be it for him in F1, although I hope not cause he was mega to watch, but as it has been mentioned, money talks.

That is true. Domenicali was annoyed with Kobayashi's decision to move to Caterham. Not only would have Kamui continued to be one of their reserve drivers in F1, he would have continued to drive for them in the WEC.

Kamui made a big mistake joining Caterham and I say he's regretting his decision IMO.

Myrddin

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Kamui made a big mistake joining Caterham

Big time. We've seen so many times, even great drivers find it hard to shine in midfield cars, let alone back markers like Caterham. While it was nice to see him back, he's been largely anonymous given the struggles in that car, & staying put at Ferrari would definitely have been the better call.

Frank Bullitt

Is Lotterer there for the rest of the season or just this race?

Zcott

Myrddin wrote: »

Big time. We've seen so many times, even great drivers find it hard to shine in midfield cars, let alone back markers like Caterham. While it was nice to see him back, he's been largely anonymous given the struggles in that car, & staying put at Ferrari would definitely have been the better call.

True, but there was no way of knowing the Caterham would be this bad. Also, these guys are race drivers. Being a third driver these days hardly gets you anything, so it's understandable that Kamui would want a race seat.

Gintonious wrote: »

Is Lotterer there for the rest of the season or just this race?

From the BBC:

A Caterham team statement did not indicate how many races Lotterer would contest but did say Kobayashi "still remains part of the team".

A Caterham statement read: "Lotterer will replace Kamui Kobayashi for this round of the championship.

losthorizon

Its more dangerous to bike through a large city than drive a Formula 1 car!:pac:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/11044259/Max-Verstappen-poised-to-be-youngest-F1-driver-of-all-time-says-Its-more-dangerous-to-bike-through-a-big-city.html

Frank Bullitt

Reading on the autosport forum that a rumour of Vettel signing for McLaren, and to be announced before Italy, not sure about that though.

Zcott

Gintonious wrote: »

Reading on the autosport forum that a rumour of Vettel signing for McLaren, and to be announced before Italy, not sure about that though.

Interesting...I'd take it with a pinch of salt though. I think at the moment Vettel's worth is a little bit exaggerated given that he's just off winning four titles on the trot but having a very poor season now. McLaren bought Button just after he won the title and he's not exactly set the world alight...and I don't think Vettel will either.

On the other hand, Vettel winning a title with another team would be the mark of a real great. I'm impressed with Hamilton this year because he took that gamble and made it work for him, like Schumacher in the late 90s. Perhaps Vettel thinks Red Bull are beginning a downward spiral and McLaren are on an upward trend.

mickdw

Zcott wrote: »

Interesting...I'd take it with a pinch of salt though. I think at the moment Vettel's worth is a little bit exaggerated given that he's just off winning four titles on the trot but having a very poor season now. McLaren bought Button just after he won the title and he's not exactly set the world alight...and I don't think Vettel will either.

On the other hand, Vettel winning a title with another team would be the mark of a real great. I'm impressed with Hamilton this year because he took that gamble and made it work for him, like Schumacher in the late 90s. Perhaps Vettel thinks Red Bull are beginning a downward spiral and McLaren are on an upward trend.

I think mclaren would be a good fit for vettel. He has time to build again and get to another championship.
I believe mclaren will get it together over the next 4 years or so with Honda.
Vettel also needs to get out of Redbull before his stock falls too much. If he continues to be beaten by ricciardo, he reputation will be in bits.
Even at this stage, you would not now pick vettel to drive a team forward.

Gillespy

Unless he hears the same kind of words from Honda that Hamilton heard from Merc it's a massive gamble. Even when they have a winning car they find ways to mess it up. Look at the last race when they were the only ones to stay on wet tyres. Button isn't going to do it so it would be a great move by McLaren if they could get him.

Tea 1000

Zcott wrote: »

Interesting...I'd take it with a pinch of salt though. I think at the moment Vettel's worth is a little bit exaggerated given that he's just off winning four titles on the trot but having a very poor season now. McLaren bought Button just after he won the title and he's not exactly set the world alight...and I don't think Vettel will either.

On the other hand, Vettel winning a title with another team would be the mark of a real great. I'm impressed with Hamilton this year because he took that gamble and made it work for him, like Schumacher in the late 90s. Perhaps Vettel thinks Red Bull are beginning a downward spiral and McLaren are on an upward trend.

I don't think Hamilton's move compares in any way to Schumacher's late 90's move to Ferrari.

Gillespy

It's just a coincidence Merc and McLaren's fortunes have flip flopped since his move.

cadaliac

I personally thought that Hamilton's move was a suicide one when I heard that he wanted to go to Merc. How wrong was I? The more I thought about it the more sense it made. I think great work had been done at the team (Shumacher, Brawn et al) and as a poster mentioned, Hamilton probably got very good information about where the team was going in the future before he made that move.
In Vettels' defense, if this rumour is to be believed, I would imagine that very strong words of persuasion would be whispered into his ear to make him believe that McLaren are in fact the team for him in the future.
I don't see RBR in a decline but more of a shift towards new technology - which doesn't seem to suit Vettel. Well, up to now at least. He could stun us all again over the next couple of races.
Like most other rumours, they are exactly that. Rumours.

_rebelkid

Race Thread will be up tonight, driving home from my holiday today.

Red Bull will be back to being dominant by 2016 and will be in with a shout in 2015. The fact they can compete with Mercedes with the massive power difference shows how far ahead they are on aero. If they had the extra power they could probably bolt on even more aero at certain tracks.

Infoanon

Max Chilton replaced at Marussia by Alexander Rossi for Spa.

Myrddin

Infoanon wrote: »

Max Chilton replaced at Marussia by Alexander Rossi for Spa.

'Contractual issues' or something, so it's only temp apparently. I hope Rossi is up there with Bianchi.

ScumLord

losthorizon wrote: »

Its more dangerous to bike through a large city than drive a Formula 1 car!:pac:

I;d say that's very true. If anything goes wrong on a pedal bike you're picking up some sort of injury. There hasn't been hundreds of people spending millions to make bikes safe to crash. I'd say a 17 year old is safer in an F1 car than he'd be on a rugby pitch, soccer pitch, necking scrumpy in a local park.

Infoanon

Myrddin wrote: »

'Contractual issues' or something, so it's only temp apparently. I hope Rossi is up there with Bianchi.

Statement issued by Max Chilton states that he relinquished his seat as Marussia in need of funding and Rossi was willing to pay for the seat.

Mentions potential new investors by Monza.

Peanut Butter Jelly

Lotterer's Helmet

ScumLord

Gillespy wrote: »

Look at the last race when they were the only ones to stay on wet tyres. Button isn't going to do it so it would be a great move by McLaren if they could get him.

Mclarens problem is they're gambling and falling victim to illogical human thought processes that you wouldn't expect a company like them to fall into.

Look up loss aversion and you'll see why McLaren keeps gambling what they have for better positions.

Jordan 199

New noses for Caterham this weekend:

_rebelkid

Race Thread is *finally* up.

Stoolbend

Does anyone know how much data it would use to watch the race on a phone with sky go?

I'll be out of the house tomorrow.

GarIT

Stoolbend wrote: »

Does anyone know how much data it would use to watch the race on a phone with sky go?

I'll be out of the house tomorrow.

Depends on the quality, in HD less than 5GB, SD less than 2GB, low quality could result in as low as 500MB.

bnt

cherryghost wrote: »

Surprised nobody has mentioned Max Verstappen is ousting Vergne for next season at Torro Rosso!

Only just heard about this, he was interviewed on the BBC coverage at the moment. Now they're talking to his dad Jos Verstappen: it seems like just last year that his dad was racing, but it was actually 2003.

Robbo

bnt wrote: »

Only just heard about this, he was interviewed on the BBC coverage at the moment. Now they're talking to his dad Jos Verstappen: it seems like just last year that his dad was racing, but it was actually 2003.

He has it on on both sides of the family. His mother and her family have very solid backgrounds in karting and rallycross.

Sheeps

This season is turning in to a classic with this rivalry between Hamilton and Rosberg.

Zcott

Yep, F1 2014 is a cracking season so far. Can't wait for every single race because they've all had fireworks.

Killinator

Does anyone else think that Riccairdo could be in with a shot at the title?,
He's only 64 off Rosberg with a double points race at a track that's suits Red Bulls style.

At every opportunity to be on the top step he has taken it, and with Rosberg and Hamilton seemingly now officially at war, he may get a few more chances to sneak up on both of them.

Zcott

Killinator wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Riccairdo could be in with a shot at the title?,
He's only 64 off Rosberg with a double points race at a track that's suits Red Bulls style.

At every opportunity to be on the top step he has taken it, and with Rosberg and Hamilton seemingly now officially at war, he may get a few more chances to sneak up on both of them.

He could, but I think this is a turning point for Mercedes. They won't let this happen again and you can be sure they'll both be very well behaved for the remainder of the races. Or at least I think so...

ScumLord

Killinator wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Riccairdo could be in with a shot at the title?,
He's only 64 off Rosberg with a double points race at a track that's suits Red Bulls style.

The only problem I could see with that kind of result is that it would mean teams won't let their drivers race each other anymore if it ends up costing their team a drivers championship.

Killinator

I just don't know if Merc can keep a lid on this,

Lewis is, arguably, the fastest man on the grid in the fastest car, I think he knows how fast he is, and I think he believes right or wrong that he's a better driver than Nico.
Nico has to realise that this is quite possibly his one big title shot, ala Webber 2010, and with all due respect I doubt even he believes he's the fastest man out there.
Lewis is now 29 points off the pace, if he comes to a position on track where he's behind Nico, he ain't gonna hang back 'for the team', and Nico won't want to let him past to get a few points closer.
The manufacturers championship is all but sewn up bar some astronomical screw up on Merc's part,

In a strange way, the only way to sort this out is to let them race!

Killinator

Killinator wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Riccairdo could be in with a shot at the title?,
He's only 64 off Rosberg with a double points race at a track that's suits Red Bulls style.

At every opportunity to be on the top step he has taken it, and with Rosberg and Hamilton seemingly now officially at war, he may get a few more chances to sneak up on both of them.

Still a possibility and the DQ in Australia suddenly looks more important.

Monza next is Merc's to lose, Japan should suit Merc better too. The tracks were Red Bull are at their best they're still short of Merc though.

Frank Bullitt

Killinator wrote: »

I just don't know if Merc can keep a lid on this,

Lewis is, arguably, the fastest man on the grid in the fastest car, I think he knows how fast he is, and I think he believes right or wrong that he's a better driver than Nico.
Nico has to realise that this is quite possibly his one big title shot, ala Webber 2010, and with all due respect I doubt even he believes he's the fastest man out there.
Lewis is now 29 points off the pace, if he comes to a position on track where he's behind Nico, he ain't gonna hang back 'for the team', and Nico won't want to let him past to get a few points closer.
The manufacturers championship is all but sewn up bar some astronomical screw up on Merc's part,

In a strange way, the only way to sort this out is to let them race!

I agree that Lewis is probably the fastest man in that car, he has had some insane laps this year and you can tell he likes the car on the limit, but that bit him on his flyer at the weekend.

Rosberg to me doesnt get enough credit for this performances since 2010, he was also impressive in the Williams in 2009 as well. He was referred to as a midfield driver in this thread or maybe the other, I do find that a bit unfair to him. He was in a midfield car for the early part of his career but he is far from a midfield driver now, he is either matching or beating Hamilton in the same car now.

andyman

Deleted User wrote: »

Still a possibility and the DQ in Australia suddenly looks more important.

Monza next is Merc's to lose, Japan should suit Merc better too. The tracks were Red Bull are at their best they're still short of Merc though.

Reckon Monza will suit Williams down to the ground as well.

andyman

andyman wrote: »

Reckon Monza will suit Williams down to the ground as well.

Aye, Williams are a danger to Red Bull at some tracks but probably not to Mercedes. Hard to see Ricciardo do it but ya never know, if Hamilton and Rosberg get silly there could be an opening.

Myrddin

Gintonious wrote: »

Rosberg to me doesnt get enough credit for this performances since 2010, he was also impressive in the Williams in 2009 as well. He was referred to as a midfield driver in this thread or maybe the other, I do find that a bit unfair to him. He was in a midfield car for the early part of his career but he is far from a midfield driver now, he is either matching or beating Hamilton in the same car now.

That was me that said that I think. I don't rate him any higher than a midfield driver tbh. How many catastrophes has Lewis had compared to Nico's 1 dnf, & Lewis is only 29 points behind him. Nico is quick on Saturdays, I'll give him that, but on race day, I rarely, if ever, think to myself "that was impressive" when considering Nico's actions. He's a solid, consistent driver...but all things being equal...would I put him in the same league as Alonso, Kimi, or Vettel? Absolutely not.

Frankie Lee

Williams will be strong at Monza for sure, could probably do with a couple more heavy breaking zones. Red Bull showed at Spa with there low downforce set up that they can compete. Ferrari will struggle.

_rebelkid

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Williams will be strong at Monza for sure, could probably do with a couple more heavy breaking zones. Red Bull showed at Spa with there low downforce set up that they can compete. Ferrari will struggle.

I was absolutely amazed by the speed of Red Bull this weekend. Williams have inherent speed with the Mercedes PU, but needed a relative Barn Door on the back compared to Red Bull.

As bad as Red Bull seemed in testing, Newey knows exactly what's what. The rake and floor activation on the car has been a signature from 2011, and is still as incredibly effective without the blown diffuser or Coanda trickery.

Put a Mercedes PU in it, and it would be unstoppable.

Frankie Lee

_rebelkid wrote: »

I was absolutely amazed by the speed of Red Bull this weekend. Williams have inherent speed with the Mercedes PU, but needed a relative Barn Door on the back compared to Red Bull.

As bad as Red Bull seemed in testing, Newey knows exactly what's what. The rake and floor activation on the car has been a signature from 2011, and is still as incredibly effective without the blown diffuser or Coanda trickery.

Put a Mercedes PU in it, and it would be unstoppable.

There rear wing was tiny in comparison to everyone elses at Spa, it is unlikely that they will be able to run that much lower than the other teams at Monza. As expected though they have closed the gap during the season and if Renault can upgrade the PU more during the off season they will not be far off next year.

Frank Bullitt

Myrddin wrote: »

That was me that said that I think. I don't rate him any higher than a midfield driver tbh. How many catastrophes has Lewis had compared to Nico's 1 dnf, & Lewis is only 29 points behind him. Nico is quick on Saturdays, I'll give him that, but on race day, I rarely, if ever, think to myself "that was impressive" when considering Nico's actions. He's a solid, consistent driver...but all things being equal...would I put him in the same league as Alonso, Kimi, or Vettel? Absolutely not.

I probably agree he isnt on par with Alonso etc, but he is far from a midfield driver. Midfield drivers, no matter what car, don't get to challenge for a championship.

His win at Austria was impressive to me and he drove an intelligent race in Canada with an injured car. Granted he hasn't had the luck of Lewis, but he is making the most of what he has at present, and is leading the championship.

Gillespy

_rebelkid wrote: »

I was absolutely amazed by the speed of Red Bull this weekend. Williams have inherent speed with the Mercedes PU, but needed a relative Barn Door on the back compared to Red Bull.

As bad as Red Bull seemed in testing, Newey knows exactly what's what. The rake and floor activation on the car has been a signature from 2011, and is still as incredibly effective without the blown diffuser or Coanda trickery.

Put a Mercedes PU in it, and it would be unstoppable.

That was Newey's 150th win and Red Bull's 50th. The Renault bits can't be that bad and the three wins this season weren't because they had the fastest car but how they will miss him.

PopePalpatine

Deleted User wrote: »

Still a possibility and the DQ in Australia suddenly looks more important.

Monza next is Merc's to lose, Japan should suit Merc better too. The tracks were Red Bull are at their best they're still short of Merc though.

I'd say Suzuka would suit Red Bull, especially that first sector.

_rebelkid

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'd say Suzuka would suit Red Bull, especially that first sector.

RBR absolutely own the Esses. So quick through them.

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still a possibility and the DQ in Australia suddenly looks more important.

That would depend on how much of an advantage he had by using the extra fuel, I think the consensus at the time was that he wouldn't have finished second. Anyway IMO that won't matter unless Merc royally screw things up in the remaining races, which I can't see happening

Zcott

Gillespy wrote: »

That was Newey's 150th win and Red Bull's 50th. The Renault bits can't be that bad and the three wins this season weren't because they had the fastest car but how they will miss him.

Red Bull have taken over the electrical side of the Renault engine and apparently it's one of the best in the business now, which shows where their increased pace is coming from. The actual ICE isn't that great but the MGUK and MGUH are vastly improved.

Myrddin

Myrddin wrote: »

That was me that said that I think. I don't rate him any higher than a midfield driver tbh. How many catastrophes has Lewis had compared to Nico's 1 dnf, & Lewis is only 29 points behind him. Nico is quick on Saturdays, I'll give him that, but on race day, I rarely, if ever, think to myself "that was impressive" when considering Nico's actions. He's a solid, consistent driver...but all things being equal...would I put him in the same league as Alonso, Kimi, or Vettel? Absolutely not.

I realise this could sound glib, but were you watching in 09? How impressive did Button look at the start of the season? Never had the advantage the Mercs had, got the job done fantastically. It's not all about catching the eye.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'd say Suzuka would suit Red Bull, especially that first sector.

From Spoon til that first corner though. That's a long, steep drag.

christy c wrote: »

That would depend on how much of an advantage he had by using the extra fuel, I think the consensus at the time was that he wouldn't have finished second. Anyway IMO that won't matter unless Merc royally screw things up in the remaining races, which I can't see happening

Still, say a minimum of 12 points difference. Could easily be a "what-if" scenario. I think just about everyone agrees though, we hope going into the last race that the fact it's double points won't actually matter either way, whether it's a 2-way or 3-way fight.

Myrddin

Gintonious wrote: »

I probably agree he isnt on par with Alonso etc, but he is far from a midfield driver. Midfield drivers, no matter what car, don't get to challenge for a championship.

I think in a car that's 2 seconds a lap faster than any other car, a lot of drivers would shine in it. He's in the lead of the championship because of the amount of points Lewis has lost, largely through no fault of his own. If one were to nullify all but one of Lewis' dnf's, so he matched Nico, I don't think Nico would be in the lead. Just my opinion though. I think someone like Hulkenberg would be far closer match for Hamilton given the same machinery.

Deleted User wrote: »

I realise this could sound glib, but were you watching in 09? How impressive did Button look at the start of the season? Never had the advantage the Mercs had, got the job done fantastically. It's not all about catching the eye.

In fairness the Brawns had a pretty decent advantage, not to the same extent mind, but once the other teams caught up, the wining streak ended. Where Button impressed in 2009 was by being massively consistent, & coping with the intense pressure on him leading up towards the end of the season. He also had some great battles on track. When you say not all about catching the eye, I agree, & I've already said Rosberg is a strong, consistent driver...but still a middling one for me.