Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Going Strong · 07-09-2014 5:14pm

Rumours in the paddock that it's 8 teams of three cars apiece next season.

So, Lotus and Caterham are in a death spiral which leaves who else a goner? Sauber is reputedly sold to a Canadian billionaire. Marussia are alleged to be behind on their payments for engines.

http://thisisf1.com/2014/09/07/post-race-rumours-rock-monza-paddock/

Zcott · 07-09-2014 5:40pm

Caterham in particular seem to be doing their best to implode. Now that Albers has stepped down it seems the team principal job will be changing as often as the drivers...

mickdw · 07-09-2014 7:25pm

cadaliac wrote: »

I don't have sky sports but noticed that you can view certain sky sports events on "on demand" later during the week.
I was away one weekend recently and the Hungarian GP was scheduled to be recorded on sky+, which failed, so I missed the whole thing.
Anyway, I was browsing through the "on demand" stuff and used the search function - hey presto, sky sports had a feature film about the Hungarian GP, highlights of the GP and some other stuff. All, from what i could make out was broadcast on sky sports F1 (SSF1)channel originally.
I asked that weekend where I could view it and someone said that there would be repeats of the GP on SSF1 - to which I was pissed off at 'cause I did't have that channel.

Anyway, I didn't investigate it any further that day, or since. But, I'd like to see that coverage later during the week. Especially as i think SS is a complete rip off.

you only need hd pack to get the f1. I wouldnt pay for Sky sports either but if you have any kind of sky pack already, adding the hd pack if you are an f1 fan is a no brainer. You will often get a major reduction by fighting with them also.
So you will likely get the hd for 7.50 a month or something like that so roughly 4 quid per race weekend plus you get f1 show each week and your whole pack upgraded to hd.

TheChrisD · 07-09-2014 8:42pm

Going Strong wrote: »

Rumours in the paddock that it's 8 teams of three cars apiece next season.

So, F1 has over the space of about half a decade, completely devolved into a "GP1"?

AMKC · 07-09-2014 9:01pm

Going Strong wrote: »

Rumours in the paddock that it's 8 teams of three cars apiece next season.

So, Lotus and Caterham are in a death spiral which leaves who else a goner? Sauber is reputedly sold to a Canadian billionaire. Marussia are alleged to be behind on their payments for engines.

I hope these are just rumours and nothing more. I don,t think 8 teams with 3 cars each would be as good as the 11 teams with 2 cars each. It would make it a lot less exciting as there would be less teams to race against each other.

counterlock · 07-09-2014 10:00pm

You could throw force india into that mix too. Mallaya was up in court this week again, and not just for that criminal haircut of his.

GarIT · 07-09-2014 10:04pm

TheChrisD wrote: »

So, F1 has over the space of about half a decade, completely devolved into a "GP1"?

It's more like GP4 at this stage.

Ghost Train · 07-09-2014 10:21pm

Would definitely be worried about a big change like that, would change the whole dynamic of the sport. Bit of a failure by the big teams if smaller teams can't survive.

Zcott · 08-09-2014 12:17am

Increasingly the only teams who are making a profit out of F1 are those with a business of selling cars or technology on the side. Ferrari and McLaren are doing fairly well, and Williams sold their hybrid technologies department earlier in the year and are using the money to invest in the team. Mercedes are a road car company and Red Bull make a fortune selling drinks. If you're a team like Sauber, Caterham or Marussia, the racing team is all you've got and that's not a good business for anyone.

With insane prices for running a racing team, fewer TV viewers because of pay TV and horrendous ticket prices, it's no wonder we're looking at several teams not existing past this year.

Budget caps are all well and good but if there's a clear strategy to making money from a racing team there'll be teams queuing at the door. At the minute there isn't, so it's not a good time to be starting a race team. F1 needs to market itself better, lower the ticket prices, put it back on free to air and actually turn itself into a profitable business.

At the moment the only people profiting from F1 is CVC, who just send FOM the bill after each race. They're not interested in how F1 is run and that's hurting the sport.

Going Strong · 08-09-2014 8:30am

It was painfully obvious that Monza was well down on attendance this weekend. The General Admission areas looked to be full but most of the stands were half full. Even the main straight and first chicane where most of the action takes place were sparsely populated. Yet, Bernie says Monza should be paying him more money to hold races in the future.

christy c · 08-09-2014 9:15am

Going Strong wrote: »

It was painfully obvious that Monza was well down on attendance this weekend. The General Admission areas looked to be full but most of the stands were half full. Even the main straight and first chicane where most of the action takes place were sparsely populated. Yet, Bernie says Monza should be paying him more money to hold races in the future.

Yeah if they dropped prices I'd happily go to more races, and it would be easier to get friends to go because many of the decent tickets are prohibitively expensive

greedygoblin · 08-09-2014 9:41am

christy c wrote: »

Yeah if they dropped prices I'd happily go to more races, and it would be easier to get friends to go because many of the decent tickets are prohibitively expensive

Same here. Unlikely prices will drop in the short term though. Greedy Bernie lost a lot of money with his trial/bribe so will want to make that back as quickly as possible.

Going Strong · 08-09-2014 10:06am

It's all of a piece with the supposed switch to three car teams though. There's only so much money available after Bernie and FOM has taken their cut. So the teams, in their usual short-termist eejitry, have decided to sacrifice the weaker teams in order to claim what pittance said teams got.

christy c · 08-09-2014 10:07am

OSI wrote: »

Aren't the ticket prices set by the tracks as they're the only money they get? I seem to remember reading that the tracks pay to hold a race, and get no revenue from TV or sponsorship deals, and only get money from the ticket sales.

Possibly, I'm not sure but the prices the track pays to host a race is extortionate. I think Singapore pays in the region of $20m

Going Strong · 08-09-2014 10:08am

OSI wrote: »

Aren't the ticket prices set by the tracks as they're the only money they get? I seem to remember reading that the tracks pay to hold a race, and get no revenue from TV or sponsorship deals, and only get money from the ticket sales.

Yes. Also, the tracks are pretty much left to promote the race themselves. The teams and Bernie have no interest in doing so - the teams will only do sponsor-related PR and not track-related stuff.

08-09-2014 2:06pm

Going Strong wrote: »

It was painfully obvious that Monza was well down on attendance this weekend. The General Admission areas looked to be full but most of the stands were half full. Even the main straight and first chicane where most of the action takes place were sparsely populated. Yet, Bernie says Monza should be paying him more money to hold races in the future.

Look at Hungary now and in the late 90s. Unbelievable difference. Even with V10 engines you'd hear the air-horns on the s/f straight every lap :P

OSI wrote: »

Aren't the ticket prices set by the tracks as they're the only money they get? I seem to remember reading that the tracks pay to hold a race, and get no revenue from TV or sponsorship deals, and only get money from the ticket sales.

Pretty much. They get vendors' fees as well, hence the terrible and overpriced food. :P British GP tickets are ridiculously high. I think Germany gets underwritten and has comparatively lower ticket prices.

twalyn · 08-09-2014 3:16pm

Went to spa last year ticket 90 for the 3 days and we stayed in a camping site cost 130 each (three of us ) and flights were dirt cheap all in all cost 350 for the whole weekend, great value try europe for better deals than silverstone

christy c · 08-09-2014 9:35pm

Just thought I'd post this, an interesting 11 min video on williams preparing the car before a race. Gives a good insight into the complexities and attention to detail of F1. Some of you may have seen it already on sky

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/9459830/williams-grid-to-garage

Cookie_Monster · 08-09-2014 10:10pm

The sooner Bernie bows out / dies the better of F1 will be at this stage. At least then they may have a chance to re-asses the silly money being demanded all round for an increasingly underwhelming sport. The GP2 race was once again better than the F1.

HigginsJ · 08-09-2014 11:02pm

christy c wrote: »

Just thought I'd post this, an interesting 11 min video on williams preparing the car before a race. Gives a good insight into the complexities and attention to detail of F1. Some of you may have seen it already on sky

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/9459830/williams-grid-to-garage

Didn't get to see the build up to the race yesterday so thanks for posting this up. Very good of Williams to get on board as well

09-09-2014 1:44am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The sooner Bernie bows out / dies the better of F1 will be at this stage. At least then they may have a chance to re-asses the silly money being demanded all round for an increasingly underwhelming sport. The GP2 race was once again better than the F1.

Most racing is "better" than F1 though, generally the case.

ZiabR · 09-09-2014 8:46am

Going Strong wrote: »

It was painfully obvious that Monza was well down on attendance this weekend. The General Admission areas looked to be full but most of the stands were half full. Even the main straight and first chicane where most of the action takes place were sparsely populated. Yet, Bernie says Monza should be paying him more money to hold races in the future.

Yeah, when the chopper was flying over the grand stands (gold areas) they were half empty which is unreal considering Monza is easier to get to than some of the other races on the calendar. If anything, you would expect epic races like Spa, Monza to be a complete sell out. Sad times for F1.

Scotty # · 09-09-2014 10:10am

OSI wrote: »

Aren't the ticket prices set by the tracks as they're the only money they get? I seem to remember reading that the tracks pay to hold a race, and get no revenue from TV or sponsorship deals, and only get money from the ticket sales.

I noticed in Hungry that the large ads on the grass areas were only shown on TV. They use projectors to project the ad on the grass but it's not seen by the naked eye, only the TV cameras. Another reason not to pay the track anything.

Scotty # · 09-09-2014 10:13am

twalyn wrote: »

Went to spa last year ticket 90 for the 3 days and we stayed in a camping site cost 130 each (three of us ) and flights were dirt cheap all in all cost 350 for the whole weekend, great value try europe for better deals than silverstone

Heading to the MotoGP in Aragon in 3 weeks. €49 for a 3 day general admission ticket (€88-€110 for grandstand). €287 for flights and accommodation (3 nights). Terrific value.

Scotty # · 09-09-2014 10:20am

OSI wrote: »

The tracks don't even get the revenue for the trackside advertising though, physical or not. The only track that does is Monaco.

But they must be getting a return from somewhere? Otherwise why bother? Maybe it attracts other events throughout the year?

ScumLord · 09-09-2014 12:52pm

Scotty # wrote: »

I noticed in Hungry that the large ads on the grass areas were only shown on TV. They use projectors to project the ad on the grass but it's not seen by the naked eye, only the TV cameras. Another reason not to pay the track anything.

I doubt it's projectors, they have software that can do the same thing.

H3llR4iser · 09-09-2014 3:52pm

logik wrote: »

Yeah, when the chopper was flying over the grand stands (gold areas) they were half empty which is unreal considering Monza is easier to get to than some of the other races on the calendar. If anything, you would expect epic races like Spa, Monza to be a complete sell out. Sad times for F1.

Ticket prices ARE insane, I agree, and more so on certain tracks - Monza being one of them.
The Italian GP's attendance, however, historically depends on Ferrari's performance over the season; It's been at maximum during the dominance years, and it has been declining as the team slumped back down the order. Same thing was recorded, for example, in 2005 (20% decrease from the previous year) and in the late '80s / early '90s. Most of the Italian general public just want to see Ferrari win; They couldn't care any less about anything else. Five-way title fight? If a Ferrari driver is not involved, they ain't going.

ScumLord wrote: »

I doubt it's projectors, they have software that can do the same thing.

Exactly - it's done via software. It's the same technology you see used in football matches to superimpose ads, team logos etc. on the pitch.

GarIT · 09-09-2014 4:58pm

Scotty # wrote: »

I noticed in Hungry that the large ads on the grass areas were only shown on TV. They use projectors to project the ad on the grass but it's not seen by the naked eye, only the TV cameras. Another reason not to pay the track anything.

I thought they were digitally added.

T-Maxx · 09-09-2014 5:28pm

Except they'll resort to devising other comm systems to achieve the same thing. More $$$$.

09-09-2014 5:56pm

Scotty # wrote: »

But they must be getting a return from somewhere? Otherwise why bother? Maybe it attracts other events throughout the year?

Different for different tracks. Some will be subsidised by state governments, to boost the area or for national/regional prestige. Others are to attract other events. Some are to try to make a profit.

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2014 6:38pm

Bob Bell apparently to sign with Ferrari for 2015.

Scotty # · 09-09-2014 7:45pm

OSI wrote: »

"FIA to ban radio instructions to drivers"
I did think this was getting a little out of hand with the constant "use this torque setting with this fuel mix and the overtake button", hardly any intelligence left in driving the car.

Good news. They could do with getting rid of most of the options on the steering wheel while they're at it.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Exactly - it's done via software. It's the same technology you see used in football matches to superimpose ads, team logos etc. on the pitch.

Yea that's the same thing. I stand corrected. I thought I had seen somewhere that it was a special light projected that is only seen by the cameras.

Jordan 199 · 09-09-2014 9:40pm

Going Strong wrote: »

Sauber is reputedly sold to a Canadian billionaire.

If it happens it will be good news as it will keep the team afloat.

The Sauber name has been in F1 for 21 seasons. All started with the lovely looking C12.

Zcott · 10-09-2014 12:13am

Jordan 191 wrote: »

If it happens it will be good news as it will keep the team afloat.

The Sauber name has been in F1 for 21 seasons. All started with the lovely looking C12.

How long before the team name is changed, or the new owner decides he doesn't want a racing team and shuts it down?

mickdw · 10-09-2014 12:26am

Zcott wrote: »

How long before the team name is changed, or the new owner decides he doesn't want a racing team and shuts it down?

I believe the billionaire in question has a son doing well in junior racing classes so the direct motorsport interest is there. Hard to know what the outcome would be but he will no doubt pump a few quid in there and provide alot of stability to the sauber workforce etc.
I think he is the 280th richest man in the world so he had a few quid.

Infoanon · 10-09-2014 8:04am

Confirmed that Luca Montezemolo is to leave Ferrari next month.

All part of the steps to a possible Ferrari IPO if rumours are to be believed.

ZiabR · 10-09-2014 8:46am

Infoanon wrote: »

Confirmed that Luca Montezemolo is to leave Ferrari next month.

All part of the steps to a possible Ferrari IPO if rumours are to be believed.

This was kinda all but confirmed at Monza anyway. I think major changes need to happen from the top down so it will be good for Ferrari. Luca Montezemolo leaving is hopefully the start that Ferrari need to get back to winning ways.

Tea 1000 · 10-09-2014 9:46am

logik wrote: »

This was kinda all but confirmed at Monza anyway. I think major changes need to happen from the top down so it will be good for Ferrari. Luca Montezemolo leaving is hopefully the start that Ferrari need to get back to winning ways.

It'll take more than him leaving. Ultimately it might be a bad thing for Ferrari as a brand, if not the F1 team.

Going Strong · 10-09-2014 1:54pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Confirmed that Luca Montezemolo is to leave Ferrari next month.

All part of the steps to a possible Ferrari IPO if rumours are to be believed.

Apparently the Ferrari F1 team's poor performance is the reason. Any nasty rumours about Luca Di Montezemolo being against increasing production numbers of Ferrari road cars so that there's plenty more to sell and exclusivity be damned as being the real reason aren't to be listened to at all at all.

Zcott · 10-09-2014 4:06pm

There's a rumour going around that Ross Brawn might be coming back as team principal. Would be a good move.

And the Ferrari IPO is apparently to raise funds to pay off the debt Fiat took on to buy Chrysler.

Terrontress · 10-09-2014 8:28pm

Zcott wrote: »

There's a rumour going around that Ross Brawn might be coming back as team principal. Would be a good move.
.

He's also rumoured to become principal of Williams and McLaren.

Terrontress · 10-09-2014 8:30pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

If it happens it will be good news as it will keep the team afloat.

The Sauber name has been in F1 for 21 seasons. All started with the lovely looking C12.

Did Peter Sauber hand Monisha K a massive stake in Sauber?

I wonder if there is a clause about her losing the share if it is sold

Infoanon · 10-09-2014 8:35pm

Terrontress wrote: »

Did Peter Sauber hand Monisha K a massive stake in Sauber?

I wonder if there is a clause about her losing the share if it is sold

Yes that is correct, as for the sale, rumour has it that has come undone with certain parties recommending that Lotus would be a better buy.

The news today that Sirotkin will run in practice 1 at Sochi suggests that the Russian money may have started to flow.

flazio · 11-09-2014 10:06am

Going back to the radio information ban, surely all that'll happen is that the information will be shown on the pit board instead.

Zcott · 11-09-2014 10:43am

flazio wrote: »

Going back to the radio information ban, surely all that'll happen is that the information will be shown on the pit board instead.

Hard to say 'your teammate is using fifth gear on the exit of turn twelve' on a pitboard!

christy c · 11-09-2014 11:29am

flazio wrote: »

Going back to the radio information ban, surely all that'll happen is that the information will be shown on the pit board instead.

My reading of it was that they were clarifying the rule "a driver must drive the car alone and unaided". Therefore showing this on the pit board would be against he rules

Stainless_Steel · 11-09-2014 7:29pm

I think the radio ban is harsh.

The FIA continue to make too many restrictions on the technical side. They take away the raw flat out driving with fuel limits etc and then don't want teams to help their driver get the most out of a limited setup.

Cookie_Monster · 12-09-2014 1:14am

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

I think the radio ban is harsh.

The FIA continue to make too many restrictions on the technical side. They take away the raw flat out driving with fuel limits etc and then don't want teams to help their driver get the most out of a limited setup.

I want to disagree with you put it's a good point on the fuel side of things, same as with ERS charging etc. It's either more dials and readouts, radio help or pointless limits

T-Bird · 12-09-2014 3:35am

Perhaps its all a "cunning plan" to disarm the thinkers (Rosberg) and aid the racers (Hammer Time)....

Mitch Connor · 12-09-2014 11:32am

Some of the stuff you aren't allowed to say to a driver now is stupid, given the regs of the sport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115824

Informing a driver about his fuel consumption and how to manage his pace - can the driver see their fuel usage? Will it be easy or impossibly to manage over an entire race if the pit aren't allowed to talk to you about it?

Informing a driver to change any settings on his car to improve its performance - Will this include where things have gone wrong, such as last week when one of the mercs engines weren't working fully and they were told to change to torque 3?

Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

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