Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

mickdw

vectra wrote: »

Berger to replace Dennis at McLaren??

Wonder is this to entice Alonso to them?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/report-berger-to-replace-dennis-at-mclaren/

I Will believe it when I see it. Dennis did appear to say when he came back that he wanted someone in between himself and Eric bouillier, allowing him to step back abit. Maybe that will happen.

Daniel S

I'd say Alonso would have a problem solely with Ron Dennis, not McLaren as that's simply just a business. Berger may work out to be the perfect compromise, Alonso gets a potentially fast car while Dennis gets a fast driver to replace Lewis. Neither party loses face.

christy c

Daniel S wrote: »

Alonso gets a potentially fast car

Potentially crap as well, even if Alonso does move it's still a gamble. But maybe he knows that Ferrari's 2015 car isn't much good either so he has nothing to loose

Jordan 199

The 10 best corners in F1.

Daniel S

christy c wrote: »

Potentially crap as well, even if Alonso does move it's still a gamble. But maybe he knows that Ferrari's 2015 car isn't much good either so he has nothing to loose

The Ferrari almost certainly won't be good for the next few years unless they come up with a miracle where an engineer comes up with something to the same extent of the split turbo Mercedes have.

who_me

Jordan 191 wrote: »

The 10 best corners in F1.

The quadruple apex Turn 8 on the Turkish circuit should be in there.

Beekay

who_me wrote: »

The quadruple apex Turn 8 on the Turkish circuit should be in there.

Not on the f1 calendar. Great corner though.

Jordan 199

who_me wrote: »

The quadruple apex Turn 8 on the Turkish circuit should be in there.

I also like turns 3-6. It also ran anti-clockwise just like the circuit in Interlagos so it placed great strain on drivers necks.

I like the Circuit of the Americas track too, especially the climb up into turn 1.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/10/ferrari-and-alonso-heading-for-divorce-who-will-the-scuderia-go-for-next/

James Allens take on it. And at a press conference Monti said the talks were on going.

If Alonso does indeed go, Ferrari will really begin to struggle.

Letting Alonso go will rank up there with one of the biggest cock-ups in F1.

Frank Bullitt

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If you ask me Alonso has been more than generous with his time at Ferrari. I think he should have walked last season. He is wasting his talent at a team that cant give him a decent car.

Nail on the head, he has been carrying them for too long.

They will only realize next year how much they need him.

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If you ask me Alonso has been more than generous with his time at Ferrari. I think he should have walked last season. He is wasting his talent at a team that cant give him a decent car.

I think other than moving to Mercedes this year there wasn't a whole lot he could've done to be in a much better position. 2 years ago he should've moved, some optimism about the new car can be forgiven.

Just thinking actually, is it just me or does it seem as though there's been a lot less wheel-spin and random 11s over the last few races compared to earlier in the season?

flazio

Something interesting that Ben Edwards pointed out this morning, in relation to the grid penalties, if you are handed a 10 place penalty and qualify with less than 10 cars behind you then the remaining positions carry over to the next race. So if you qualify 21st out of 22, next weekend you'll have a 9 place penalty to serve.

Going Strong

Bild are reporting that Vettel is on his way to Ferrari. :eek:

It's in German.

https://twitter.com/bgarloff

Mitch Connor

Going Strong wrote: »

Bild are reporting that Vettel is on his way to Ferrari. :eek:

It's in German.

https://twitter.com/bgarloff

Would be an interesting move - though not one that would particularly surprise me.

Would be very interested to see how Red Bull would replace him with. I reckon Hamilton could be a target - it was mooted a little before his move to Merc. Personally I am not sure of his relationship with Merc based on a rivalry between him and Rosberg - and there has been talk of his contract talks being put on hold to the end of the season; so I reckon a split could be on the cards. Question, for me, is whether Renault will be a better engine next year. Riciardo has shown you can get some pace out of the car, but in its currrent form it isn't a match for the Merc, and Hamilton would need some evidence that would be different next year.

KarlFitz01

If Alonso does go to McLearn and Vettle goes to Ferrari, what about JEV or Hulkemberg to RBR?

Going Strong

I think the line up at Mercedes will be fine for next year at least. As long as Hamilton's car holds up, he has the measure of Rosberg so I doubt he'll leave. If Vettel really is off to Ferrari then, to be honest, his stock will take an almighty tumble. Beaten by the new boy and off to a 'retirement home' of a team with only 'old man' Raikkonen to beat? Not to mention that the internet is awash with rumours that Ferrari really want Hamilton but will have to "make do" with Vettel.

Donnelly117

Going Strong wrote: »

I think the line up at Mercedes will be fine for next year at least. As long as Hamilton's car holds up, he has the measure of Rosberg so I doubt he'll leave. If Vettel really is off to Ferrari then, to be honest, his stock will take an almighty tumble. Beaten by the new boy and off to a 'retirement home' of a team with only 'old man' Raikkonen to beat? Not to mention that the internet is awash with rumours that Ferrari really want Hamilton but will have to "make do" with Vettel.

Hes a 4 time world champion and is still only 27... I think he'll be alright

Myrddin

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Hes a 4 time world champion and is still only 27... I think he'll be alright

Alonso was a double world champion & only 28 when going there...time certainly does fly.

Zcott

This is a good opportunity for Vettel to show his worth and ability. He's suffered from the Hamilton syndrome: effectively growing up in one team and getting success which gets put down to the team and the car. Going to Ferrari gives him a new challenge, and I respect him for that.

As for Alonso to McLaren...good luck.

Mitch Connor

Zcott wrote: »

This is a good opportunity for Vettel to show his worth and ability. He's suffered from the Hamilton syndrome: effectively growing up in one team and getting success which gets put down to the team and the car. Going to Ferrari gives him a new challenge, and I respect him for that.

As for Alonso to McLaren...good luck.

Apparently some rumours are saying Alonso could take a year out.

ScumLord

Vettel moving to Ferrari would give me some nostalgic hope that a German driver back in the team will be a magic solution.

If Alonso takes a year out I think that will be the end of him, there's enough good drivers out there that he might not have a place available when he wants to come back.

counterlock

ScumLord wrote: »

Vettel moving to Ferrari would give me some nostalgic hope that a German driver back in the team will be a magic solution.

If Alonso takes a year out I think that will be the end of him, there's enough good drivers out there that he might not have a place available when he wants to come back.

In terms of sponsorship alone, Alonso will get a seat. I can't see him taking a year out.

Myrddin

It's disappointing how Alonso's career has panned out in these later stages. He has still been able to display some magic, but hasn't been rewarded for it. I'd love to see him in the car that has a a chance.

vectra

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Apparently some rumours are saying Alonso could take a year out.

Similar to when Kimi finished with Ferrari?

Didn't he get the option of taking less of a payoff if he drove for another team?

Jordan 199

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If you ask me Alonso has been more than generous with his time at Ferrari. I think he should have walked last season. He is wasting his talent at a team that cant give him a decent car.

I think he should take a gamble and head back to McLaren. The have Red Bulls head aerodynamics man Peter Prodomou working for them now so that should help McLaren.

If McLaren have a car with a very good aero package and a strong engine next year, I think they will be back winning again.

who_me

Beekay wrote: »

Not on the f1 calendar. Great corner though.

Yikes. How did I not notice that?

who_me

Myrddin wrote: »

Alonso was a double world champion & only 28 when going there...time certainly does fly.

A really nice side-effect of having young drivers winning championships very early in their careers, is that we now have multiple ex-champions competing which spices things up. They won't make doofus overtaking moves, they won't have one flash-in-the-pan race then fade away. Even if Mercedes are fading away in the distance, I'd be perfectly happy watching Vettel vs Alonso bumping wheels for 5/6/7th place.

who_me

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I also like turns 3-6. It also ran anti-clockwise just like the circuit in Interlagos so it placed great strain on drivers necks.

I like the Circuit of the Americas track too, especially the climb up into turn 1.

It's certainly one of the most spectacular corners, with the huge climb and the massive stands on the outside. Plus the way it widens makes it a great overtaking spot with multiple possible lines - all the ingredients of a great corner. Except maybe being a challenging corner to take!

The left-right-left sequence of corners right after it are impressive too.

Frank Bullitt

It will be Ferrari back into the dark ages of the early 90's I feel.

Alonso is their biggest assest, and Mattiacci clearly is out to make some sort of leadership impression.

I think I'll be switching my support to whatever team Alonso goes to. Ferrari are like the headless chickens of the paddock right now, and it shows with this move.

mickdw

Gintonious wrote: »

It will be Ferrari back into the dark ages of the early 90's I feel.

Alonso is their biggest assest, and Mattiacci clearly is out to make some sort of leadership impression.

I think I'll be switching my support to whatever team Alonso goes to. Ferrari are like the headless chickens of the paddock right now, and it shows with this move.

I Don't know. Mattiacci clearly had something about him if not racing experience.
If for example he brings in Ross Brawn or other good technical chief and moves to a more senior role himself and the f1team can rebuild with a new young driver and win a world championship in another 3 years or so, he will be hailed as a genius.
Perhaps it's time to let alonso go, start a proper rebuilding plan with a long term lead driver. Alonso's age counts against him for that role in my opinion.

Frank Bullitt

mickdw wrote: »

I Don't know. Mattiacci clearly had something about him if not racing experience.
If for example he brings in Ross Brawn for example and moves to a more senior role himself and the f1team can rebuild with a new young driver and win a world championship in another 3 years or so, he will be hailed as a genius.
Perhaps it's time to let alonso go, start a proper rebuilding plan with a long term lead driver. Alonso's age counts against him for that role in my opinion.

It's a big IF in relation to Brawn, from what I remember it was Monti and Dominicali that were talking to him originally, with them gone things may indeed change again.

His lack of racing experience might be showing a little, he is of course at heart a business man from running Ferrari in north America.

Time will tell, but any Ferrari fans who have some sort of hope or expectation of wins or championships in the near future, to me should be prepared for a longer wait.

smellslikeshoes

Gintonious wrote: »

It will be Ferrari back into the dark ages of the early 90's I feel.

They are pretty much at that point already. Ferrari at their worst in the 90s finished 4th in the constructors twice, they are 4th in the constructors at the moment.

I think the thing that has brought this on for Ferrari is Raikkonen coming in and just struggling terribly with the car. There was always question marks over Massa after the accident but everyone knows Raikkonen is a seriously good driver. If Raikkonen is struggling this much compared to Alonso there is two conclusions. The car is a bag of **** and Alonso is just way better at driving around the problems than Kimi. The second is Ferrari have been taking the cars in the direction Alonso has wanted to the detriment of the other driver and it hasn't been working. If Ferrari want Alonso gone Mattiacci must think it's the latter.

Infoanon

James Allison will have a major input into the 2015 Ferrari which should therefore be an improvement on 2014.

If Vettel is behind the wheel then Ferrari will not be returning to the bad old days of the early 90s,70s etc

If Alonso goes to RBR will he be a year to late with A Newey retiring ?

Frank Bullitt

Infoanon wrote: »

James Allison will have a major input into the 2015 Ferrari which should therefore be an improvement on 2014.

If Vettel is behind the wheel then Ferrari will not be returning to the bad old days of the early 90s,70s etc

If Alonso goes to RBR will he be a year to late with A Newey retiring ?

Well it would be McLaren if anyone, I don't see him going to RB, and Newy is still there but in an advisory role.

As pointed out above though, Ferrari are already in the bad ol'days really, its been a steady decline since the change Brawn left and their failure to adapt to the 2 big rule changes in the previous years only show this more. Alonso has been dragging them up the grid with the tractors they have given him.

Allison may well be a good addition, but one person won't make the difference that Ferrari need, its clearly a much bigger issue.

As for McLaren, they have been busy also signing up new personal.

Peter Prodromou (Red Bull Head of Aero) as new chief designer.
Matt Morris (Sauber Technical Director) as new Director of Engineering
Ciaron Pilbeam (Red Bull race engineer) as new Chief Race engieer
Tony Salter (Sauber Group Leader Aerodynamicist) as new Principal Aerodynamicist
Guillaume Cattelani (Lotus Principal Aerodynamicist) as new Head of Aero

Infoanon

Gintonious wrote: »

Well it would be McLaren if anyone, I don't see him going to RB, and Newy is still there but in an advisory role.

Why risk a move to McLaren with an untried Honda engine, If Vettel goes to Ferrari then I could easily see Alonso replacing him.

christy c

Infoanon wrote: »

Why risk a move to McLaren with an untried Honda engine

Worst case scenario: the McLaren is a heap of scrap like the current Ferrari, so what's to loose? Having said that if he got an offer from Mercedes or RB I'm sure he'd go for them first.

christy c

Is all this talk of Alonso, Vettel moving just pie in the sky? Haven't heard anything from Eddie Jordan yet who seems to have a crystal ball when it comes to these things

Frank Bullitt

Infoanon wrote: »

Why risk a move to McLaren with an untried Honda engine, If Vettel goes to Ferrari then I could easily see Alonso replacing him.

I think its more of a case for RB actually wanting him, they have Ricciardo now and also a youth driver scheme that would be easy to supply a driver for them.

christy c

Going Strong wrote: »

If Vettel really is off to Ferrari then, to be honest, his stock will take an almighty tumble. Beaten by the new boy and off to a 'retirement home' of a team with only 'old man' Raikkonen to beat? Not to mention that the internet is awash with rumours that Ferrari really want Hamilton but will have to "make do" with Vettel.

Time will judge Vettel's stock, if he goes to Ferrari and has success, this year will be forgotten about- similar to Alonso in 2007.

Personally I would be disappointed if he left, I want to see how himself and Dan shape up next year

dloob

Breaking news - Vettel leaves Red Bull at the end of this season, Kyvatt to replace him.
So I guess its going to be Vettel -> Ferrari Alonso - > McLaren Jenson - > Jenson's front room.

Ghost Train

Interesting, I guess Ferrari want somebody a bit younger and Vettel has a pretty good record in recent years

_rebelkid

I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete driver change at Ferrari. Raikonnen has drastically under performed this year, and Jules Bianchi seems a better bet after his test.

antodeco

It'll probably be Vettel and Bianchi at Ferrari, Alonso and Button/who other at McLaren

T-Bird

Hopefully Bianchi will get a shot at Ferrari, if he does I think Vettel could be outclassed there as well....

_rebelkid

I think Button should be fairly safe at McLaren. Honda may ut their foot down to keep him, seeing as they have a little bit of a history.

Ghost Train

Lewis getting caught out a bit, losing his front wheel against barrier

Eddie and Sky both saying Kimi will be staying at Ferrari next year, bit odd. Eddie reckons Alonso and Magnussen for McLaren next year, didn't think Kevin had done an awful lot to justify that.

Very interesting stuff indeed. I've always supported Ferrari, but have never really taken a shine to Vettel. I'll be hoping Kimi spanks him if they're both at Ferrari, however unlikely that may be. Will be strange though, the first time there's been a driver a don't really like in the team.

Because of McLaren's kiwi links, they've always been my 'number two team'. If Alonso does indeed end up back at McLaren, I really hope they can deliver a decent car. He deserves at least one more title.

After watching some of the post-qualifying stuff, it was just amazing to see how happy Alonso looked, even though he gave nothing away. I can't remember when I last saw him looking that happy.

Autosport

Vettel is going to Ferrari according to Christian Horner, should be interesting now