Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Myrddin

_rebelkid wrote: »

Specially if "bad luck" starts with T and ends in imo Glock...

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

Jordan 199

Myrddin wrote: »

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

That and his engine blowing in Hungary.

Felipe did a super job in 2008 and he put in a superb drive in wet conditions at his home race of that year. He didn't put a foot wrong in that race.

_rebelkid

Myrddin wrote: »

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

Jordan 191 wrote: »

That and his engine blowing in Hungary.

Felipe did a super job in 2008 and he put in a superb drive in wet conditions at his home race of that year. He didn't put a foot wrong in that race.

He was the sporting champion that year. Hamilton won by a fluke...

Myrddin

_rebelkid wrote: »

Hamilton won by a fluke...

Yes it was sheer luck, but as I said elsewhere, he wouldn't have needed good luck if he didn't get the bad luck of his gearbox throwing a strop half way through the race. I don't think it's possible to become a world champion by fluke, you might get good & bad fortune that decides it, but in the end, the winner will have done enough over the course of a season anyway.

mickdw

Myrddin wrote: »

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

And massa interviewed recently blamed that for losing him his title. I didn't realise that it was the same race as the flav cheating incident.
Massa said it lead to quite an awkward situation given his current engineering chief but that all is good now.

mickdw

GarIT wrote: »

He said that he had repeatedly asked for the race to be stopped, when the radio messages were listened to it turned out that he never said anything like the race should be stopped just that visibility was poor, he never said that it wasn't safe but in several interviews said he was screaming on the radio for the race to be stopped.

If he knows he didn't say those things he was just saying it for attention. If he actually believes he said what he claims to it could be PTSD from his accident.

Something strange here.
I heard massas radio be broadcast during the Japanese gp and did quite clearly come over the radio saying that the conditions were bad. From my recollection of what he said, at that time, it was one of those messages that clearly said he did not feel safe or want to be out on track.
I don't remember the actual wording but must check to see if I still have the race recording.
Even if it was just a comment re visibility, I remember listening to it live and it came across more in line with what massa said afterwards. Indeed I listened to massa interviewed after Japan and when he said he was screaming for the race to be stopped, to me, that was consistent with what I had heard only minutes before from him.
I think he is being given a raw deal. Perhaps his actual words now on paper don't convey that he felt it should be stopped but at the time, I feel he certainly did.

Infoanon

GarIT wrote: »

He lied about what he had said over the radio. I have no problem with what he said, he didn't say too much or too little but what he did do was claim to have said a lot more than he actually did. He claimed to have repeatedly screamed over the radio for the race to be red flagged. Charlie has confirmed that he once said (and didn't scream) that visibility was poor..

Think you are making a lot of assumptions and imho making questionable allegations about Felipe.

Unfortunately in F1 the horrible accident that has befallen Jules has become a political football and Charlie is under considerable pressure and thus has to be very succinct / political in his replies.Felipe probably did say once that visibility was poor, but may have said "its too dark stop the race " 100 times.

Cookie_Monster

If Massa was so concerned about the conditions why didn't he simply pull in and let everyone else get on with it? It's his call to continue at the end of the day and if he's not comfortable but others are I see no reason to be whinging about it to race control.

Cookie_Monster

Mercedes have revealed they boosted spending on Formula One by 17 per cent to a record 325m pounds NZ$663m last year which won them the constructors' championship at the weekend and has put Lewis Hamilton on track to win the drivers' title.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11342224

not cheap... so much for any kind of spending limit.

bbability

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If Massa was so concerned about the conditions why didn't he simply pull in and let everyone else get on with it? It's his call to continue at the end of the day and if he's not comfortable but others are I see no reason to be whinging about it to race control.

I can't remember if he had full wets on either. His opinion would count if most of the field had been on full wets.

Brendan Flowers

Re: Massa and the Championship in 2008. People always go on about the "Fernando is faster than you" incident and how they feel bad for Massa as he has so often suffered because of team orders. Yet it was because of team orders that he went into the final race of the 2008 season 7 points rather than 9 points behind Hamilton. Sure he had some bad luck throughout the season. But the help he got always seems to be ignored!

christy c

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Re: Massa and the Championship in 2008. People always go on about the "Fernando is faster than you" incident and how they feel bad for Massa as he has so often suffered because of team orders. Yet it was because of team orders that he went into the final race of the 2008 season 7 points rather than 9 points behind Hamilton. Sure he had some bad luck throughout the season. But the help he got always seems to be ignored!

I don't think anyone ignored the help he got, it's not mentioned much because any team in Ferraris position would have done the same thing. And anyway, it was just Kimi repaying the favour from a year earlier in Brazil so it works both ways

veganrun

Mercedes are giving everyone on the team a bonus of at least £10,000, including the chef and cleaners.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/11159596/Mercedes-reward-Brackley-staff-with-7m-bonus-after-winning-Formula-One-constructors-championship.html

Jordan 199

Eric Boullier: Lineup needs to boost morale.

Killinator

OSI wrote: »

No doubt that means turfing out the drivers the team have built a bond with and bringing in one that saw them up for espionage charges and a massive fine. McLaren are starting to piss me off. And I have no time for Boullier.

"We need a mix of experience and eagerness,"

Does he not realise he's got that already?

Andrew76

Killinator wrote: »

"We need a mix of experience and eagerness,"

Does he not realise he's got that already?

Not sure if that was a rhetorical question but Alonso is a far better driver than Button, even if he's more hassle to manage & costs more.

Andrew76

Andrew76 wrote: »

Not sure if that was a rhetorical question but Alonso is a far better driver than Button, even if he's more hassle to manage & costs more.

Not only that, but I really get the impression from Button that he's happy to cruise along and chip away at whatever points he can get. Alonso clearly wants to push his way to a chance at another WDC.

Killinator

Basil3 wrote: »

Not only that, but I really get the impression from Button that he's happy to cruise along and chip away at whatever points he can get. Alonso clearly wants to push his way to a chance at another WDC.

What exactly can Button do but chip away, the car is nowhere near good enough for a WDC and in the last couple of races when the car looked decent he put it as high as could be expected.

I openly admit Alonso is the better of the two, but just because Button isn't throwing a sulking fit because he isn't winning or saying how crap the car is doesn't mean he doesn't want to win.

Killinator

Killinator wrote: »

What exactly can Button do but chip away, the car is nowhere near good enough for a WDC and in the last couple of races when the car looked decent he put it as high as could be expected.

I openly admit Alonso is the better of the two, but just because Button isn't throwing a sulking fit because he isn't winning or saying how crap the car is doesn't mean he doesn't want to win.

Of course he wants to win, but does he have the drive to motivate an entire team? Is he the kinda guy that everyone will want to get behind to push for a WDC?

I really don't think so.

Killinator

Basil3 wrote: »

Of course he wants to win, but does he have the drive to motivate an entire team? Is he the kinda guy that everyone will want to get behind to push for a WDC?

I really don't think so.

He might be the guy and he might not,

But, and it's just a thought,

How has Alonso done as regards driving/motivating Ferrari towards a championship?

They're no better off now then when he joined!

Andrew76

Killinator wrote: »

How has Alonso done as regards driving/motivating Ferrari towards a championship?

They're no better off now then when he joined!

I'm guessing he was quite a boost to the team when he joined. He came runner up 3 times in the previous 4 championships (with the team coming no worse than 3rd) - all while not having the best car on the grid (2010 wasn't that far off though). He's also been miles better than his team mates. But there's only so much a driver can do to win titles - he hasn't had the Ferrari team of old with Todt, Brawn and Byrne.

Anyway, he seems to be between a rock and a hard place at the minute. I'd be surprised if Merc were interested in him for 2016 and beyond (assuming Rosberg is sticking around, Hamilton is younger and faster). Really just leaves McLaren and who knows when they'll next be proper competitive - not much worse than Ferrari are now I reckon.

Killinator

Andrew76 wrote: »

I'm guessing he was quite a boost to the team when he joined. He came runner up 3 times in the previous 4 championships (with the team coming no worse than 3rd) - all while not having the best car on the grid (2010 wasn't that far off though). He's also been miles better than his team mates. But there's only so much a driver can do to win titles - he hasn't had the Ferrari team of old with Todt, Brawn and Byrne.

Anyway, he seems to be between a rock and a hard place at the minute. I'd be surprised if Merc were interested in him for 2016 and beyond (assuming Rosberg is sticking around, Hamilton is younger and faster). Really just leaves McLaren and who knows when they'll next be proper competitive - not much worse than Ferrari are now I reckon.

Fair enough points.
On the other hand Massa came 2nd before Alonso joined with Kimi winning a WDC the season before, so it's not like Ferrari were in dire need when they signed Alonso.

Maybe he's the man for McLaren in the future, but he certainly wasn't in the past so I reserve judgement on whether he can do it 2nd time around.

Exciting times either way...

Conventional wisdom is that Alonso is much better than Button but Button pretty much matched Hamilton while at McLaren and has been a cut above the exciting Magnussen this season.
As for motivating a team, it's the whole fear/respect thing. If Alonso somehow managed to "motivate" the team it would be out of fear that he'd manage to get the company dissolved this time around. :pac:

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Conventional wisdom is that Alonso is much better than Button but Button pretty much matched Hamilton while at McLaren and has been a cut above the exciting Magnussen this season.
As for motivating a team, it's the whole fear/respect thing. If Alonso somehow managed to "motivate" the team it would be out of fear that he'd manage to get the company dissolved this time around. :pac:

Classic.
Will Ron Dennis really have Alonso back. I can't quite see it myself.
Whatever way you view Alonso's time at McLaren, there is no doubt he caused disruption there.
I know Ron would regard himself as being a very upright type of man but it would be quite interesting if Ron dragged this signing out and then went with someone else. It would come close to finishing Alonso.

Myrddin

Deleted User wrote: »

Conventional wisdom is that Alonso is much better than Button but Button pretty much matched Hamilton while at McLaren and has been a cut above the exciting Magnussen this season.
As for motivating a team, it's the whole fear/respect thing. If Alonso somehow managed to "motivate" the team it would be out of fear that he'd manage to get the company dissolved this time around. :pac:

Plus (from memory) I think Button is the only team mate of Hamilton's who has ever beaten him?

Infoanon

mickdw wrote: »

Classic.
Will Ron Dennis really have Alonso back. I can't quite see it myself.

How long will Ron be there ?, Mansour Ojjeh is now back in full health and is not too happy about Rons manoeuvres while he was in hospital.

Frank Bullitt

Killinator wrote: »

He might be the guy and he might not,

But, and it's just a thought,

How has Alonso done as regards driving/motivating Ferrari towards a championship?

They're no better off now then when he joined!

He is the only reason that they challenged for championships, so I could only imagine what they would have been like without him.

Andrew76

mickdw wrote: »

Classic.
Will Ron Dennis really have Alonso back. I can't quite see it myself.
Whatever way you view Alonso's time at McLaren, there is no doubt he caused disruption there.
I know Ron would regard himself as being a very upright type of man but it would be quite interesting if Ron dragged this signing out and then went with someone else. It would come close to finishing Alonso.

Ron wants to get McLaren back to the top, if he thought Alonso could help with that I'm sure he wouldn't think twice about it. Also, I woudn't say the disruption that year was caused by Alonso - not sure how true this is but I had read that he had been promised no. 1 status within the team which Ron decided to go back on? Always remember China that year and Ron saying to Hamilton's side, "we're racing Alonso", or words to that effect. Once he saw he wasn't getting no. 1 treatment and the fact that Hamilton was super fast, he started throwing the toys out of the pram. :pac:

Isn't the rumours that McLaren are looking for a multi-year deal with Alonso rather than 1 year and him jumping ship to Merc? The politics in F1 is almost as entertaining as the racing!

Myrddin wrote: »

Plus (from memory) I think Button is the only team mate of Hamilton's who has ever beaten him?

I think so yeah. But if you were a team boss, would you rather Button or Alonso in your team? Or Button or Hamilton? Button is good but not top tier imo. McLaren should stick with Magnussen and sign Alonso - they'll do no worse than with Magnussen and Button.

Myrddin

Andrew76 wrote: »

I think so yeah. But if you were a team boss, would you rather Button or Alonso in your team? Or Button or Hamilton? Button is good but not top tier imo. McLaren should stick with Magnussen and sign Alonso - they'll do no worse than with Magnussen and Button.

Yeah I'd put Alonso ahead of Button in that sense. I do think Button has a lot of worth though, he's super super consistent & is as capable of winning as anyone else given the machinery to do the job. I can see the draw Alonso would have though, & I'd really love to see Alonso mixing it up with the Mercs & Red Bull in a car that's any way decent.

Frank Bullitt

Here is an interesting stat that popped up in my twitter feed:

Daniel Ricciardo and Fernando Alonso are the only drivers this year to beat both Mercedes cars in a race. Ricciardo with his 3 wins and Alonso with his podium in Hungary.

christy c

Gintonious wrote: »

Here is an interesting stat that popped up in my twitter feed:

Daniel Ricciardo and Fernando Alonso are the only drivers this year to beat both Mercedes cars in a race. Ricciardo with his 3 wins and Alonso with his podium in Hungary.

Not really that interesting or surprising, Mercedes have had the best car by a country mile so very few would have beaten them

vectra

christy c wrote: »

Not really that interesting or surprising, Mercedes have had the best car by a country mile so very few would have beaten them

Also in a straight race they would not beat them.

Zcott

The rumours are that Alonso will be a Honda employee, not a McLaren employee...so technically Ron wouldn't have to sign Alonso...

v3ttel

I would absolutely hate to see Button lose his seat at McLaren. The grid would not be the same without him.

GarIT

v3ttel wrote: »

I would absolutely hate to see Button lose his seat at McLaren. The grid would not be the same without him.

Generally the grid isn't the sane after it has changed :P

Brendan Flowers

I'd actually love to see Jenson back at Williams next season to partner Bottas. I know Massa signed a contact recently so that's extremely unlikely but I always felt there was some unfinished business with JB and Williams.

Andrew76

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

...but I always felt there was some unfinished business with JB and Williams.

As long as he keeps to his contract this time! :P

Myrddin

I too would love to see Button go to Williams, & can't help but feel he'd be a far better choice over Massa

Jordan 199

Myrddin wrote: »

I too would love to see Button go to Williams, & can't help but feel he'd be a far better choice over Massa

Don't forget that Felipe brings Petrobras money along with him which helped him get the Williams drive too.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29660644

This article talks about Button possibly going to endurance racing, could see that working well for him.

Gintonious

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29660644

This article talks about Button possibly going to endurance racing, could see that working well for him.

Slow and steady wins the race, aye?

Frank Bullitt

Basil3 wrote: »

Slow and steady wins the race, aye?

To be honest he is tailor made for this type of stuff, his smooth style is what endurance teams love, and when he has the car his consistency is admirable.

I think also, to bow out of F1 from a big team would be better than hanging around on the grid in a poor car for the sake of it.

Ghost Train

v3ttel wrote: »

I would absolutely hate to see Button lose his seat at McLaren. The grid would not be the same without him.

Would like to see him with the honda engine, for old times sake or a return to williams for a year might also be good

I like Massa but Bottas has done better than him this year

Killinator

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29660644

This article talks about Button possibly going to endurance racing, could see that working well for him.

Love to see him in an LMP1.
Maybe Marky Mark will give a good word or two about him:)

cadaliac

Has anyone confirmation that Dani Kvyat has an actual contract with RBR? I still think it will be a straight swap between Alonso and Vettel. Looking at other websites, they also state that Alonso "has contract" with Ferrari - when we all know he is leaving. Even Alonso has hinted that it will "be obvious" when h mves, or something to that effect.
Anyway, I was just wondering - is it even possible? Alonso is breaking his contract - is Seb?
All just media speculation I suppose.

Ghost Train

cadaliac wrote: »

Has anyone confirmation that Dani Kvyat has an actual contract with RBR

Horner has announced their line up as Dani and Danial

Alonso and Vettel haven't officially said who they'll be with yet

Jordan 199

Las Vegas targeting F1 race.

The last time F1 raced there was in 1981 and 1982 and it was held in the car park of the Caesars Palace hotel.

A Formula 1 race in a car park :eek:

Myrddin

More street track crap

Zcott

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Las Vegas targeting F1 race.

The last time F1 raced there was in 1981 and 1982 and it was held in the car park of the Caesars Palace hotel.

A Formula 1 race in a car park :eek:

Joe Saward debunked this whole idea pretty conclusively on his blog:

In my experience, if Bernie says there’s a race coming in Las Vegas, he’s probably close to a deal somewhere else and this is a lever in a different negotiation.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29658585

Its no surprise that Caterham are in a bit of financial trouble, but a botch job suspension fix just to race.

I think Kamui was right to be a bit afraid of what might happen.