Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Terrontress

Didn't they used to do a whole load of "shout-outs" to people who would be watching the race in Ireland, from people they had met at the race?

That's my abiding memory.

I think that the change from BBC to ITV brought quite a few changes and the RTE coverage was not too far behind the initial BBC output.

tripperman

yeah rte was low budget but it follwed the irish team and drivers which wad great, causr on bbc itv and sky now top 3 maybe four places and thats it rest dont count , dont think we will see rte showing formula one again

Adamocovic

tripperman wrote: »

yeah rte was low budget but it follwed the irish team and drivers which wad great, causr on bbc itv and sky now top 3 maybe four places and thats it rest dont count , dont think we will see rte showing formula one again

The only chance of RTE going for coverage again I would imagine is if an Irish driver entered and built up a bigger following of F1 in Ireland.

Have to say I do prefer the BBC coverage to the Skysports one though. Always preferred listening to Coulthard and Jordan, not a big Brundle fan so I actually prefer it now. Shame they don't get much live events. If so I would imagine Skysports views would drop considerably.

Tzardine

Adamocovic wrote: »

The only chance of RTE going for coverage again I would imagine is if an Irish driver entered and built up a bigger following of F1 in Ireland.

Have to say I do prefer the BBC coverage to the Skysports one though. Always preferred listening to Coulthard and Jordan, not a big Brundle fan so I actually prefer it now. Shame they don't get much live events. If so I would imagine Skysports views would drop considerably.

I quite like Brundle. He has a great technical knowledge. Overall I enjoy Skys coverage although I could given or take Simon Lazenby.

Edit : I forgot to say that I can't stand when Sky get Bruno Senna to guest commentate. He is a terrible presenter. Can't imagine he will be back next season.

Terrontress

I think David Coulthard is one of the most boring people I have ever heard. I once heard him interview Paul Di Resta and between the two Scotch bores, their drone nearly made me doze off. How can piloting a Formula One car sound so dull?

Luckily EJ restores the balance.

HighLine

Surely Red Bull and Ferrari running 3 cars next year would render the constructor's title pointless? They either have all teams running 3 cars or none at all.

smellslikeshoes

HighLine wrote: »

Surely Red Bull and Ferrari running 3 cars next year would render the constructor's title pointless? They either have all teams running 3 cars or none at all.

You would have to assume that if they brought in third cars that they wouldn't be eligible for points for the WCC.

PopePalpatine

I hate the idea of 3rd cars, it would be the killing blow for Sauber, Force India and Lotus. I want to see more teams, not less - gods be with the days you had tiny teams fighting through pre-qualifying. :pac:

Ghost Train

Only caught a bit of the interview with the marrussia boss, but he did make it sound like there's still the possibility of team being removed and making the next race

Bernie being pretty cagey about what he wants with the cars, maybe letting the smaller teams sweat, pushing back a bit after they put pressure on him last week

AMKC

Adamocovic wrote: »

The only chance of RTE going for coverage again I would imagine is if an Irish driver entered and built up a bigger following of F1 in Ireland.

Have to say I do prefer the BBC coverage to the Skysports one though. Always preferred listening to Coulthard and Jordan, not a big Brundle fan so I actually prefer it now. Shame they don't get much live events. If so I would imagine Skysports views would drop considerably.

I have to agree with you on both points. I watched the F1 Qualifying live Sky1 yesterday and have to say like I said the last time I watched it. Its just so dull aand boring. There is too many commentaters and here is no chemistry between any off them.They also never mentioned Mclaren not even once as iff they had forgotten about them. I agree about what another poster said about Karen Chundok am sorry but he is just dull too. I recorded the BBC one last night and watched it today and it was so much better.They sound like they actually car and enjoy the sport where as the Sky commentators sound like they are just doing it to get paid and really don,t give a darm.

Terrontress

I'd imagine that a non scoring team car will move over without fuss for a scoring team member but will make it as tough as possible for a rival team's car. I don't see how it can work. Plus there's the whole issue if testing. Evaluate new parts on non-scoring cars.

Every team should compete on equal basis.

Going Strong

Terrontress wrote: »

I'd imagine that a non scoring team car will move over without fuss for a scoring team member but will make it as tough as possible for a rival team's car. I don't see how it can work. Plus there's the whole issue if testing. Evaluate new parts on non-scoring cars.

Every team should compete on equal basis.

There's also the "Thin end of the wedge" issue. In that the teams running three cars will start pressing for more and more 'perks' for themselves at the expense of whichever 'poverty' two car teams are left in the sport.

Re: BBC vs Sky, I too noticed how the Sky team seemed to outnumber half the grid! There was an awful lot of repetition as well al la Sky News or something - it was like every ten minutes they'd start the whole spiel of Hamilton vs Rosberg complete with ropey CGI yet again. Damon Hill may be a sound bloke and everything but I can't stand his moany voice with......................... all................................. those........................................ long............................................. err...................................................long................................................ err............................................... pauses..................................... of................................his.

Scotty #

Coulthard is ultra boring and I don't like Perry. She should never have got the job, it should have gone to Lee McKenzie. Eddie is great.

I don't like Brundle either. I know he might have 'first rights' on interviews on the grid walk but he's downright rude sometimes and it turns me off him. Ted Kravitz is my favourite and SKY is worth it just for Ted's Notebook. I made a complaint again to SKY yesterday regarding the red button not working for the race. It works perfect for practice and quali and then crashes the Sky box when you try to access it during the race.

Sterling Archer

I may have rambled on a bit

Ok on the topic or 3 car teams
I'm certain I've forgotten some point

Pros
More (for lack of a better term) "competitive" cars
A guarantee of having those cars all season long
(Pending the right structure)
A stream of new or guest drivers through the season
A more "colourful" grid with fresh sponsors who would be unable to sponsor cars all season long
Possibly more positional battling and overtaking

Cons
Negative impact on the mid-field teams and lower end teams
Possibly only having the big teams being able to fund 3 car teams
A visible split in the grid
Teams using the 3rd car as an in season test platform for there main cars
(Pending the wrong structure)
Teams using the 3rd car to rob other teams of points
Uncompetitive behaviour by using the 3rd car as a rolling road block
A bland looking grid with 3 car teams in a single livery
Young inexperienced drivers competing in machinery beyond there talent or experience
Races ending up as parade laps

Edit - I'm not set on who should run a 3rd car, be it only factory teams or whoever can afford to but I'm sure the below can still be applied.

The right structure - making the best out of the worst
New or Guest drivers can only compete for 4 races per team
Variation - All team cars can have different liveries (think of Indy car or Nascar teams)
This would allow a geo-orientated structure to both drivers and sponsors

Option 1:
Factory teams (or who can afford to run a third car) run a 3rd car,this car is in a different livery,
it can score both constructor and driver points but these points do not contribute to the Factory team, the driver points remain with the driver (so if a driver drives for another team they continue to score points) the constructor points remain with that car

Option 2:
Factory teams (or who can afford to run a third car) run a 3rd car,this car is in a different livery,
It cannot score constructor and driver points

Option 3:
Factory teams (or who can afford to run a third car) run a 3rd car,this car is in a different livery,
it can score both constructor and driver points these points do contribute to the Factory team

Option 4:
Factory teams (or who can afford to run a third car) run a 3rd car,this car is in a different livery,
it can score both constructor and driver points these points do contribute to the Factory team however the factory team only get points from the highest two cars

The wrong structure
All teams must run 3 cars - no exceptions
All 3 cars can score points
A single driver per car all season (except in special circumstances - injured drive etc)
I could go on here..

My personal opinion on the matter
3 car teams are a bad idea
Factory feeder teams eg. Redbull - Toro Rosso
or
Factory supported teams eg. here is a complete chassis and running gear, develop the car yourself from here, we will provide (delayed) upgrades at certain points during the season
A Budget cap and stricter rules around development loopholes (Red bull technologies) <- I could be wrong on this point
Adjustments to the prize money and this money structure in general

More teams - fingers crossed for Haas and Audi making an appearance sometime soon

bbability

Looks like deal is done. Alonso going to McLaren. I would say the sticking point is button will not play Number 2 to him.

https://twitter.com/motor_racing/status/531753532811014144

Zcott

I doubt Alonso would insist on Button being a number 2. McLaren don't work that way. Still, no word on whether it'll be Button or Magnussen. If it's Button, they've Perez-ed Magnussen and done him out of a seat for next year.

Scotty #

Shane_ef wrote: »

Pros
A stream of new or guest drivers through the season

Cons
...

A see this as a con myself.

Imagine a guest driver winning the opening race and not not being seen for another 3 or races, if at all. Having drivers in the race who have no interest in how the season finishes is possibly dangerous and a really bad idea IMO. Will teams auction off guest seats I wonder?

If any team runs three cars then they should all run three with the same drivers for the season.

Scotty #

Doesn't look like Caterham will be in Abu Dhabi, https://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/

Only half the money raised with 4 days to go.

Scotty #

Scotty # wrote: »

Doesn't look like Caterham will be in Abu Dhabi, https://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/

Only half the money raised with 4 days to go.

I thought they only started fundraising a few days ago?

mickdw

Scotty # wrote: »

Doesn't look like Caterham will be in Abu Dhabi, https://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/

Only half the money raised with 4 days to go.

To be fair they only had 10 days I think and nearly 5 days left.
I don't think anyone thought they would get this far so give it a chance.
I don't really see the problem with the crowd funding. No one is forced to give money, they are givng a return for the money, be it a cap, a badge or a front wing etc depending on amount of money put forward.

tripperman

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It's an interesting idea, perhaps the can have a round where its just guest drivers? And by guest drivers I mean top tier drivers from other championships like guys that have just missed the boat i.e Loeb

red bull tested loeb in a gp2 car a few years ago he was way off the pace think about 6 seconds, was rumored it was get him ready for replacing bourdais in the first abu diabi race,

Stallingrad

I really hope Button stays, he's good for the sport, and would like to see how he measures up with Alonso as teammate.

Sterling Archer

Of course it all just wild ideas but..

The structuring would have to be correct,
They could have a drivers championship, and a privateer championship (a championship for drivers in the 3rd cars)
As Scotty pointed out, teams could try to take advantage of this by auctioning off places, but a "simple" rule could help avoid this.

You could see teams use it as a way of testing a new young driver.

But like I've said, I'd prefer feeder teams, although you could use a hybrid, a feeder with 1 permanent driver and Trial/guest/new drivers rotating in the 2nd car

v3ttel

Sky Sports Poll: How would you assess Nico Rosberg's title chances after his win in Brazil?

No chance - 92%
Some chance - 5%
Every chance - 3%

Talk about tempting faith. I know it's a British website, and the people reading predominantly want Lewis to win, but have they missed the all the various technical gremlins Mercedes have had throughout the year?

tripperman

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If I remember correctly he did a run in a F1 car at a test day and was inside the top 10 time wise. *Edit found it*

Five-time world rally champion Sebastien Loeb recorded the eighth-fastest time of the day while driving a Red Bull car at a Formula 1 testing session in Barcelona on Monday.

The Frenchman, who last year tested a Renault F1 car at the Paul Ricard HTTT circuit on the French Riviera, completed 82 laps of the Catalan track, recording a fastest lap of 1:22.503.

By way of comparison, Japanese driver Takuma Sato - who has over 90 F1 grands prix under his belt - set the day's fastest lap time with 1:20.763.

ah that shows a better performance then i recall so, the gp2 test was a non event, i would still rather see a young driver like sainz or rossi or van doorne in a car then a guest

Myrddin

v3ttel wrote: »

Talk about tempting faith. I know it's a British website, and the people reading predominantly want Lewis to win, but have they missed the all the various technical gremlins Mercedes have had throughout the year?

Agreed. Lewis still in reality needs at least second, he needs to stay out of trouble, & needs his car to hold together. None of that is a given, & it's at best 50/50 for me

mickdw

Myrddin wrote: »

Agreed. Lewis still in reality needs at least second, he needs to stay out of trouble, & needs his car to hold together. None of that is a given, & it's at best 50/50 for me

I Wouldn't go as far as 50 50 but it's certainly far from over.
If it was less than 14 points between them, it would be a winner takes all battle. As it stands Hamilton only needing 2nd to guarantee it means he is certainly a strong favourite but no wiggle room whatsoever.

Myrddin

mickdw wrote: »

I Wouldn't go as far as 50 50 but it's certainly far from over.
If it was less than 14 points between them, it would be a winner takes all battle. As it stands Hamilton only needing 2nd to guarantee it means he is certainly a strong favourite but no wiggle room whatsoever.

In a way it's kind of out of both their hands, & really down to Lewis' car holding up...I won't have a nail left by the end of the race

zombieHanalei

Luckily, it appears this double points thing won't end up having too major of an impact.

The constructors championship is pretty much done and dusted from positions 1 to 7, the only way there will be any major movement is if one or both the Mercedes cars run into issues.

Sauber need 9th or better to leapfrog Marussia and claim 9th outright, 10th would allow them to match Marussia's 2 points but Marussia would still rank higher on countback.

It will have somewhat of an impact on the drivers standings, Raikkonen and Magnussen are going head to head for 10th place but the double points keeps Perez in the hunt to leapfrog them both.

Hulkenberg will most likely retain 9th, he has a big enough gap behind but to leapfrog Massa he needs a top 5 finish with Massa not scoring. Unlikely that both events will happen.

Massa and Button fighting for 7th, without double points Button has a decent chance of hanging on, but the double points really hands Massa the initiative here and I suspect he will get the outcome he needs.

Bottas, Alonso and Vettel; game on for 4th place, but as there's only three points separating the three drivers the double points won't have a massive impact here, it was pretty much a case of whichever of those three drivers finishes ahead of the other two will take 4th regardless of double points. (Although I'm sure that doesn't hold true for every scenario, but it holds in general)

Daniel Ricciardo is third no matter what happens, with or without double points.

And as for the title battle, given that the two Mercedes drivers will most likely finish 1 and 2 it most likely won't impact the championship. Nico suffers a retirement or finishes behind Hamilton, Lewis wins the title regardless of double points.

Nico wins, Lewis must finish second. Without double points, Lewis could have finished 2nd or 3rd.

Nico second, Lewis must finish no lower than 5th. Without double points a 10th place finish would have done Lewis.

Nico third, Lewis must finish lower than 6th. Without double points Lewis would have been champion regardless.

Nico fourth, Lewis must finish lower than 8th. Without double points Lewis would have been champion regardless.

Nico fifth, Lewis must finish lower than 9th. Without double points Lewis would have been champion regardless.

Nico 6th or lower, Lewis champion regardless of points scenario.




Long story short, either way Nico needed to finish first or second combined with Lewis hitting major trouble. I actually feel the double points bullet has by and large been dodged this season, as it's (probably) not going to have a major impact on proceedings. But they really do need to scrap it, it's not fair to place extra value on some races over others.


I hope Lewis wins it as I feel he has been the better of the two over the entire season, but I have to admit a small part of me is intrigued to see the reaction if Rosberg won the title because of the double points. I do love a bit of controversy:P

Cookie_Monster

zombieHanalei wrote: »

But they really do need to scrap it, it's not fair to place extra value on some races over others.

the only way I'd like to see it stay is if it was a random draw every year. That way at least it could occur at tracks that suit different teams on different years and push some crazy strategies for a mid season risk to gain your only win.
Even that wouldn't be ideal.

Infoanon

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If I remember correctly he did a run in a F1 car at a test day and was inside the top 10 time wise. *Edit found it*

Five-time world rally champion Sebastien Loeb recorded the eighth-fastest time of the day while driving a Red Bull car at a Formula 1 testing session in Barcelona on Monday.

The Frenchman, who last year tested a Renault F1 car at the Paul Ricard HTTT circuit on the French Riviera, completed 82 laps of the Catalan track, recording a fastest lap of 1:22.503.

By way of comparison, Japanese driver Takuma Sato - who has over 90 F1 grands prix under his belt - set the day's fastest lap time with 1:20.763.

Sebastian Loeb was not granted a super licence in the end iirc - Red Bull were financing the venture.

Jordan 199

EJ talking to Bernie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gmy80CaYIY

mickdw

Infoanon wrote: »

Sebastian Loeb was not granted a super licence in the end iirc - Red Bull were financing the venture.

I thought the super licence was a matter of form only requiring a very limited f1 mileage.

Scotty #

I'd say there are very few people that Bernie Ecclestone respects but I think EJ is one of them.

He has absolutely no interest in supporting teams though.

dloob

Scotty # wrote: »

Coulthard is ultra boring and I don't like Perry. She should never have got the job, it should have gone to Lee McKenzie. Eddie is great.

I don't like Brundle either. I know he might have 'first rights' on interviews on the grid walk but he's downright rude sometimes and it turns me off him. Ted Kravitz is my favourite and SKY is worth it just for Ted's Notebook. I made a complaint again to SKY yesterday regarding the red button not working for the race. It works perfect for practice and quali and then crashes the Sky box when you try to access it during the race.

Mine crashed too, one of the few times I actually try to use the red button as well.
I agree with your other comments pretty much, except I like Brundle, my wife on the other hand thinks he is too rude.

AMKC

bbability wrote: »

Looks like deal is done. Alonso going to McLaren. I would say the sticking point is button will not play Number 2 to him.

https://twitter.com/motor_racing/status/531753532811014144

Id say the sticking point is that McLaren no matter how big they are can,t afford to pay and run two top highly paid drivers. They have been getting it hard to get sponsers for there car this year as well. Maybe if it was easier to get more off them or even one that would pay big money for a few seasons or even one then they might have been able to have both them drivers. I would love to see Button stay to and race alongside Alonso again as teammates but I don,t see it happening now. I think Magnussen will be Alonsos teammate now.

Infoanon

mickdw wrote: »

I thought the super licence was a matter of form only requiring a very limited f1 mileage.

The testing has to be in a current car, there are set guidelines on how to qualify for a super licence, IIRC there was concerns that Sebastien Loeb had no single seater race experience.

mickdw

AMKC wrote: »

Id say the sticking point is that McLaren no matter how big they are can,t afford to pay and run two top highly paid drivers. They have been getting it hard to get sponsers for there car this year as well. Maybe if it was easier to get more off them or even one that would pay big money for a few seasons or even one then they might have been able to have both them drivers. I would love to see Button stay to and race alongside Alonso again as teammates but I don,t see it happening now. I think Magnussen will be Alonsos teammate now.

Button could save face and agree to race on pay per point basis, only getting near his current salary if he got somewhere close to the championship.
Alternatively, i wonder could he pull off a bit of a coup and hook up with a major Japanese sponsor that might bring money to the team / pay his wages. He is a mini god in Japan so Id say that is very possible.

ScumLord

Scotty # wrote: »

He has absolutely no interest in supporting teams though.

I can see his point though. The job of Formula one is to host races, it's not their job to fund teams so they can enter. I know without teams there's no sport but at the same time there's probably no point in propping up small teams that really don't have the necessary skills or resources to compete.

It could be that this years regulation changes were just too much for small teams to bare, and that once the regulation changes settle in smaller teams can come back with better confidence that they can afford to race the entire season and make enough money to turn a profit.

I wouldn't assume this is as catastrophic as it seems. Just like when natural disasters wipe out a section of species it creates a vacuum for other animals to fill the niche, it may turn out that better teams appear over the next few years that can actually compete with the big boys.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116729

Interesting article from Horner suggestion going back to V8 engines.

He makes some valid points, especially about the costs of these current units being a big factor in the smaller teams now beginning to suffer badly.

veganrun

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116729

Interesting article from Horner suggestion going back to V8 engines.

He makes some valid points, especially about the costs of these current units being a big factor in the smaller teams now beginning to suffer badly.

If they are going to do that, I'd rather they brought back the V10's.

Going Strong

And yet he said nothing prior to this season when their engine partner Renault, you know, the manufacturer who pushed for the V6 PU we have now, was spending millions developing the new engine. Only it turned out to be nothing like as good as Mercedes and nullified Red Bull's superior chassis. Not that this is influencing Horner's complaints, oh no. Then there's Red Bull being one of the chief creditors who forced Caterham into receivership. The same Red Bull who negotiated an extra handout from Bernie putting the boot into FOTA (along with Ferrari) before they could mount an opposition to Bernie and the CVC. I doubt Christian Horner gives two hoots about the minor teams in F1 let alone spending caps.

ScumLord

I think they should give these engines more time, I certainly wouldn't like to see the turbo and electrics go. They do seem to present problems to the drivers and are more difficult to drive which is a good thing.

I think this year has been one of the best seasons of F1 in a long time. Even though the Mercs were streets ahead of the rest they were competitive with each other, every time those cars got close on track it was exciting and the rest of the pack was fairly close in performance to each other which lead to some great battles amongst the rest of the teams.

I'd like to see what next year brings before any major overhauls are made so that the current regulations get a fair chance. Otherwise we could end up going down the route of changing things at the slightest upset and giving no one a chance. I think Merc won this season in the design phase, they came up with an excellent engine and the Mercedes engineers essentially won F1 this year. If the rest of the teams could take mercedes engine and make their own version I think it could be a very close season of F1 next year.

Frank Bullitt

Look, all I want are screaming engines, not things that sound like goats screaming down a traffic cone, and are told "watch the fuel", thats what LeMans is for.

vectra

veganrun wrote: »

If they are going to do that, I'd rather they brought back the V10's.

If they are going to do that, I'd rather they brought back the V12's :P

Frank Bullitt

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2830792/Alice-Powell-line-alongside-Lewis-Hamilton-Abu-Dhabi-Grand-Prix.html

Is this some sort of joke?

Ghost Train

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2830792/Alice-Powell-line-alongside-Lewis-Hamilton-Abu-Dhabi-Grand-Prix.html

Is this some sort of joke?

I guess if it's just free practice 1 what harm

The crowd funding effort not looking too good with just 2 days left, only just above 50%

lolie

lolie wrote: »

Quick heads up for next Wednesday 12th.
Classic F1 Title Decider's with Murray Walker.
BBC red button and online, 9.25 - 10.30 pm.

On now.

PopePalpatine

£35,000 for a practice session? How much did Lotterer offer for his GP weekend?

Frank Bullitt

PopePalpatine wrote: »

£35,000 for a practice session? How much did Lotterer offer for his GP weekend?

Was just thinking that, I thought a practise appearance was at least 6 figures.