Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

greedygoblin

Andrew76 wrote: »

Not sure if this has already been posted but Mattiacci has been replaced: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30179916

Maurizio Arrivabene is his replacement, not heard of him myself.

He is head honcho at Marlboro/Phillip Morris isn't he? Apparently he is closely involved behind the scenes with the team for years. Also, his wife has a senior position within the team according to Eddie Jordan.

Going Strong

His wife is Kimi's PR person.

I hadn't realised that Mattiacci has left Ferrari. They're really in all sorts of trouble aren't they?

clear thinking

I'm not a regular poster here but my thoughts on the season and F1 in general are pretty mixed.

1. Let's all hope Bianchi makes a full recovery. To be honest I think human error was the cause of his crash, with a truck on the track, no safety car and possibly JB pushing too hard under yellow. So there should be no rush to enclosed cockpits.

2. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 1. -The nose has to go. I'm a firm believer in 'if it looks good, it is good'. Ferrari tried to say a winning car looks good at the start of the year. Memo to Ferrari, build a **** looking winning car and get back to us. They tried the same stroke in 1996.

3. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 2. DRS has to go. There is enough flex with the 100kg fuel limit to allow drivers use slipstream and a richer mix to get a few extra kph. Sure If any pleb had drs they could overtake another F1 car.

4. Boring as f**k drivers Sky had a James hunt documentary on there recently. Of the current crop I'd only classify Alonso and Button as having any personality. Even the Lewis v Nico thing was crap as lewis is still bizzarely childish for a grown adult and nico appeared to lose his nerve after spa. Frankly I wanted Nico to win because of LH's annoying-ness but either way I have no great like for either of them and their conveyancing of being spoiled. Any of a dozen drivers in that car would have been champion.

5. Bernies over 70 thing F1 should be a very popular sport, used to attract young people to engineering, science and technology. It should not be just about selling white-labelled swiss watches to old people living vicariously (nothing wrong with that btw). It's amazing that F1 cars are not plastered with Google, Facebook, Microsoft as title sponsors, that car companies focus more on advertising 'experience' rather than their tech to hook those interested. We need a next generation of engineers and scientists, it is ridiculous that Newey can draw on paper and still win 4 world championships. Surely there are good engineers and nerds out there in aerospace and motor racing that can nail F1?

6. Races There are too many races. Cut it back to 16. I lose interest for **** races like russia and bahrain. Yes I'm a traditionalist, Spa, Suzuka, Monza, Montreal...

7. testing The lack of testing is madness. No one even got close to mercedes and part of that has to be because of testing being restricted. Bring back more tests, allow more engines to be used and allow more development to go on. Teams have to be given the chance to close the gap in season. It can still be restricted to prevent the doubling up of personnel that used to go on.

8. rule stability It would be nice to see the tech specs stand for 10 years, apart from the superfical aero stuff I mentioned. That would close the gap between all the teams. It would also bring costs down over time, for example, privateers could use last years engines to save on that expense.

Cant think of anymore for the moment, rant over.

Schwiiing

^ Very hard to read that wall of text. Put each point as a paragraph.

I'd like to add that I hate the newer tracks eg Abu Dhabi. Vast expanses of flat concrete and tarmac. No punishment for making a balls of a corner, just acres of run off space and you're back in business.

I'd like to make the races shorter by about 20-30 mins.

Get rid of DRS.

Bonus points sytem for Fastest Laps, Pole Positions.

PopePalpatine

I don't mind a ~20-race calendar, I do mind that some of those races are on crap circuits with little interest in motorsport. At least China and Malaysia are trying a bit, but even then, Shanghai is a bland track. Don't get me started on Yas Marina and Sakhir, at least the other Tilkedromes are in areas where wet races are possible!

Gillespy

DRS isn't always an easy pass. Hamilton had it in Brazil for the last stint and couldn't pass. Rosberg had it in Bahrain but hard defensive driving kept him out. It was introduced for good reasons and has been refined since to the point where I don't see the big deal anymore. Getting DRS by passing backmarkers should be looked at though.

ScumLord

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Definitely bring back gravel traps, or a suitable modern equivalent. Enforce the track limits, and make sure driver mistakes are punished.

I would have thought that they could come up with some sort of surface that will tear up the tyres, either make them rough for a few laps or take a few laps worth of performance from the tyres bringin in the possibility of an unnecessary pit stop. It would be a severe punishment for the drivers without ending their race.

clear thinking wrote: »

2. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 1. -The nose has to go. I'm a firm believer in 'if it looks good, it is good'. Ferrari tried to say a winning car looks good at the start of the year. Memo to Ferrari, build a **** looking winning car and get back to us. They tried the same stroke in 1996.

That's just not true, aerodynamics are dictated by science and nature not peoples perceptions. I like the fact cars are evolving in a wind tunnel, it's a more natural process thats more effective that some guy deciding the car should look a certain way just because he likes the look of it.

3. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 2. DRS has to go. There is enough flex with the 100kg fuel limit to allow drivers use slipstream and a richer mix to get a few extra kph. Sure If any pleb had drs they could overtake another F1 car.

I think the DRS is needed, F1 cars are too sensitive to aero and are at a disadvantage following a slower car. They need something to level the playing field so they can overtake.

4. Boring as f**k drivers Sky had a James hunt documentary on there recently. Of the current crop I'd only classify Alonso and Button as having any personality.

That's out of the hands of everybody. As long as they're effectively spokesmodel for their sponsors they have to be on their best behaviour or end up losing sponsors and as a result their seat. It;s the same in every sport, everybody's afraid to speak their mind lest they end up on the wrong end of the mob or sponsors.

6. Races There are too many races. Cut it back to 16. I lose interest for **** races like russia and bahrain. Yes I'm a traditionalist, Spa, Suzuka, Monza, Montreal...

couldn't disagree more. The more races the better.

7. testing The lack of testing is madness. No one even got close to mercedes and part of that has to be because of testing being restricted. Bring back more tests, allow more engines to be used and allow more development to go on. Teams have to be given the chance to close the gap in season. It can still be restricted to prevent the doubling up of personnel that used to go on.

They all get the same amount of time, so if Mercedes can make it work then the rest should too. You could say restrict the top teams but then the teams competing from 2nd down to tenth will be suffering because the top team did well and won't be able to close the gap.

These are world class engineers and drivers, they could engineer themselves around any problem given enough time. F1 is an engineering sport as much as it's a motorsport, by restricting the time the teams have to work on their cars they have to decide what their going to prioritise, rather than just make everything perfect. It gives smaller teams a chance to excel in some areas that the top team decided maybe to put on the back burner.


I think this has been the best season of F1 in a long, long time. I'd like to see how these rules settle in before assuming they work or don't' work but I think they're on the right track.

v3ttel

My off-season wish list would be (in no particular order):

1. Jenson to be resigned by McLaren
2. Equalise the money distribution to the smaller teams (Lotus, Sauber, Force India, Caterham, Manor)
3. Ross Brawn to Ferrari
4. The Honda engine to have good performance
5. Renault to sort out their engine
6. Get rid of the gentleman's appendage noses (which I think is already confirmed).

To sum up in a nutshell: I hope the field can at least challenge Mercedes and the smaller teams can survive in an environment that is more fair than it is today.

Tippex

v3ttel wrote: »

My off-season wish list would be (in no particular order):

1. Jenson to be resigned by McLaren
2. Equalise the money distribution to the smaller teams (Lotus, Sauber, Force India, Caterham, Manor)
3. Ross Brawn to Ferrari
4. The Honda engine to have good performance
5. Renault to sort out their engine
6. Get rid of the gentleman's appendage noses (which I think is already confirmed).

To sum up in a nutshell: I hope the field can at least challenge Mercedes and the smaller teams can survive in an environment that is more fair than it is today.

I think this hits the off season on the head. My thoughts are:
1) I think JB will still be in F1
2) Bernie and bigger team not going to allow this
3) would love him to do this
4) Hopefully
5) again hopefully
6) yep
7) stabilise the regs
8) sort out the stupidness of what happened this weekend with Grosjean's penalty compared to RBR

ScumLord

v3ttel wrote: »

2. Equalise the money distribution to the smaller teams (Lotus, Sauber, Force India, Caterham, Manor)

I don't see that happening and kind of agree with Bernie up to a point. There needs to be a proper incentive to the top teams to continue to sink money into development and the smaller teams have to work within their budgets.

I do think it's important to make the smaller teams competitive but there's only so much that can be done for them, there comes a point when the small teams have to fund themselves and innovate their way up the grid.

To sum up in a nutshell: I hope the field can at least challenge Mercedes and the smaller teams can survive in an environment that is more fair than it is today.

I think there were signs teams were closing the gap to Mercedes. Williams, Ferrari and McLaren were pretty competitive amongst themselves so if they can move forward as a group they should be competitive with mercedes. Renault and Ferrari need to be let do a major overhaul of their engines, if they're restricted they simply won't be competitive with mercedes.

Frank Bullitt

I thought the season had its high points, some good racing, but overall I thought it was quite predictable. Most races you knew that it would be a Merc win in some manner.

Next year I do hope it will be closer, and more of some close battles right to the top of the grid.

Delighted Lewis won it, im surprised that it actually went to the last race considering that he won 11 races in total. I think Rosberg showed some good character and some bad over the year, and to be the only driver properly challenging Hamilton is no mean feat.

I genuinely fear for Ferraris performance for the next few years, there are no signs of any kind of change that would ignite any form of enthusiasm, I mean this more in relation to the back room staff. 3 team principles in a year is a bit shambolic and the politics seem have no solid structure or plan, it may well be a few years yet before we see a Ferrari on the top step, but I actually hope I am wrong.

Here are the names that have been culled (and rumoured to be culled)
Luca di Montezemolo - president: gone
Stefano Domenicali - team principal: gone
Marco Mattiacci - team principal: gone
Luca Marmorini - chef of engine department: gone
Fernando Alonso - leading driver: gone
Andrea Stella - driver engineer: rumored to be gone
Nikolas Tombazis - chief designer: rumored to be gone

Frank Bullitt

From James Allen

Marchionne who made the announcement, making it clear that Mattiacci isn’t just being dropped as team boss, he is out of Ferrari altogether. Something very big has clearly happened in the last week to bring this about with Italian sources scratching their heads as to the cause. Possible suggestions are that Mattiacci had been in discussions with other car manufacturers, but there is nothing firm given as a reason at this point.

T-Bird

Eddie Jordan said on the red button that he could exclusively reveal that Ross Brawn was going to VW Audi and that they were entering F1 in 2017 (it could have been 2016 I forgot). However, it depended on a change to current regulations, or something like that.

youreadthat

Myrddin wrote: »

And yet Button is the only person to ever beat Hamilton as a team mate...

Button has been a good solid driver over the years but one thing that has been consistent is his inability to adapt and outperform the car. The best drivers don't need a perfect set up and the perfect handling to suit their driving style to get at least a par result whereas Button does. The writers and pundits know this too and it's why they tend to talk about how smooth his style is and what a nice chap he is rather than is he a great of F1.

Joeseph Balls

T-Bird wrote: »

Eddie Jordan said on the red button that he could exclusively reveal that Ross Brawn was going to VW Audi and that they were entering F1 in 2017 (it could have been 2016 I forgot). However, it depended on a change to current regulations, or something like that.

He didnt exclusively reveal it. Its a rumour. Now he doesn't pick these things out of nowhere all the same, i agree.
He said 2017.
Tried find a video of the conversation but cant

PukkaStukka

Gintonious wrote: »

I genuinely fear for Ferraris performance for the next few years, there are no signs of any kind of change that would ignite any form of enthusiasm, I mean this more in relation to the back room staff. 3 team principles in a year is a bit shambolic and the politics seem have no solid structure or plan, it may well be a few years yet before we see a Ferrari on the top step, but I actually hope I am wrong.

Here are the names that have been culled (and rumoured to be culled)
Luca di Montezemolo - president: gone
Stefano Domenicali - team principal: gone
Marco Mattiacci - team principal: gone
Luca Marmorini - chef of engine department: gone
Fernando Alonso - leading driver: gone
Andrea Stella - driver engineer: rumored to be gone
Nikolas Tombazis - chief designer: rumored to be gone

The new team president Sergio Marchionne turned Fiat profitable in 2 years in 2006 and then oversaw its megabuck merger with Chrysler a few years back. He is continuing the Ferrari policy of old of sacrificing the scapegoats. It was he who brought Mattiacci in after Domenicali left, and if I was to be ultra cynical of Marchionne's motives, I'd say he is doing a hatchet job to justify the teams exit from F1. One could be forgiven for thinking that the team is on the verge of imploding! The list above of departed people is shocking and clear evidence of the new broom being a bit too indiscriminate.

Among other notables who are no longer active in the team:

Chris Dyer - fired in 2010 after being held responsible for the poor decisions in Abu Dhabi that cost Alonso the title

Aldo Costa - fired in 2011 after being blamed for the poor performance of that years car. Joined Mercedes and the rest is history

Luca Baldisserri: moved from F1 to Ferraris driver academy. Once touted as Brawn's natural successor, he has since drifted into obscurity.

Rob Smedley: followed Massa to Williams as Head of vehicle performance. Again, another case of a Scuderia leaving and finding a performance improvement in his new home.

Of the men named in the post quoted above, IMHO de Montezemelo and Nicholas Tombazi's should have gone ages ago. Likewise, Pat Fry's position is also less that certain with James Allison about. Methinks the scarlet bloodletting may not quite be finished yet......

T-Bird

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

He didnt exclusively reveal it. Its a rumour. Now he doesn't pick these things out of nowhere all the same, i agree.
He said 2017.
Tried find a video of the conversation but cant

I was doing a bit of sarcastic mocking there, But I'm sure he said exclusive. But I agree that it isn't new news, Just Eddie being Eddie.

HighLine

T-Bird wrote: »

I was doing a bit of sarcastic mocking there, But I'm sure he said exclusive. But I agree that it isn't new news, Just Eddie being Eddie.

In fairness to Eddie, he has broken a few true exclusives over the years including Schumacher's return to Mercedes.

PopePalpatine

If I was the VW Group, I'd send in Lamborghini.

Infoanon

HighLine wrote: »

In fairness to Eddie, he has broken a few true exclusives over the years including Schumacher's return to Mercedes.

Lewis move to Mercedes was another, and made a lot of other journos look stupid in the process.

T-Bird

HighLine wrote: »

In fairness to Eddie, he has broken a few true exclusives over the years including Schumacher's return to Mercedes.

Oh I'm not saying anything otherwise, it's just the way he said it and the funny reaction from herself when he said it. He has been correct in most of his revelations.

losthorizon

Scotty # wrote: »

Take from this what you will (the last 20 seconds). Gotta love Ted Kravitz!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pbhia1jxrk

Sky showed Button and Denis sitting at a table having quite an animated discussion after the race. Button said later they always chat before and after races but this looked more serious, lots of hand movements from both. I'd like to see JB get a chance with the Honda.

All will be revealed on 1st December.

Boullier has said on previous interviews on Sky that he wants to keep Button and that its Dennis who wants to get rid of him.

greedygoblin

PukkaStukka wrote: »

The new team president Sergio Marchionne turned Fiat profitable in 2 years in 2006 and then oversaw its megabuck merger with Chrysler a few years back. He is continuing the Ferrari policy of old of sacrificing the scapegoats. It was he who brought Mattiacci in after Domenicali left, and if I was to be ultra cynical of Marchionne's motives, I'd say he is doing a hatchet job to justify the teams exit from F1. One could be forgiven for thinking that the team is on the verge of imploding! The list above of departed people is shocking and clear evidence of the new broom being a bit too indiscriminate.

Among other notables who are no longer active in the team:

Chris Dyer - fired in 2010 after being held responsible for the poor decisions in Abu Dhabi that cost Alonso the title

Aldo Costa - fired in 2011 after being blamed for the poor performance of that years car. Joined Mercedes and the rest is history

Luca Baldisserri: moved from F1 to Ferraris driver academy. Once touted as Brawn's natural successor, he has since drifted into obscurity.

Rob Smedley: followed Massa to Williams as Head of vehicle performance. Again, another case of a Scuderia leaving and finding a performance improvement in his new home.

Of the men named in the post quoted above, IMHO de Montezemelo and Nicholas Tombazi's should have gone ages ago. Likewise, Pat Fry's position is also less that certain with James Allison about. Methinks the scarlet bloodletting may not quite be finished yet......

I don't think Marchionne wants the team to leave F1 though. Scuderia Ferrari exists ultimately to promote the Ferrari brand. If the team isn't winning races, then that isn't good for the brand name. So all that blood-letting is a necessary evil to get the team back on the right track.

The Ferrari part of the business is a huge moneymaker for Fiat. The problem however, is that Marchionne believes, given that there is such huge demand for their cars, that the company could be making a lot more money than it currently is.

Production of Ferraris was limited to something like 7000 units per year by Montezemolo. This was to maintain exclusivity - make sure that supply doesn't exceed demand, thereby maintaining the prestige of the brand. Marchionnes view though was that people were left on waiting lists to buy Ferrari cars, and despite willing to part with huge sums of money, they were left disappointed due to the limited production. This meant Ferrari were losing out on much higher profits. Marchionne wanted to up production to 10000 units per year and apparently Montezemolo baulked at this.

Now with Montezemolo out of the picture, Marchionne is free to do what he wants with the F1 team. Clearly, a season where they are so far off the pace of the Mercedes (who are one of their main competitors in the luxury car market) does not look good, hence the reason for all the upheaval. Of course Marchionne could decide to pull the team entirely from F1 and make the move to Le Mans or elsewhere, but I don't think I could see a future Monte Carlo grand prix without the prancing horse on the grid. Personally, I think we'll see Ferrari in F1 for a few years to come yet. The signing of Vettel in place of Alonso should indicate that they are committed to the immediate future in the sport at least.

Jordan 199

PopePalpatine wrote: »

If I was the VW Group, I'd send in Lamborghini.

It was 21 years ago when the Lamborghini name was in F1. Lamborghini were owned by Chrysler back then.

Senna and Hakkinen tested a McLaren with a Lamborghini V12 in the back in 1993. Instead of using the Lamborghini V12 engines for 1994, McLaren went with Peugeot, a partnership that only lasted one season.

Senna testing a Lamborghini powered McLaren at Estoril in 1993:

Going Strong

greedygoblin wrote: »

I don't think Marchionne wants the team to leave F1 though. Scuderia Ferrari exists ultimately to promote the Ferrari brand. If the team isn't winning races, then that isn't good for the brand name. So all that blood-letting is a necessary evil to get the team back on the right track.

The Ferrari part of the business is a huge moneymaker for Fiat. The problem however, is that Marchionne believes, given that there is such huge demand for their cars, that the company could be making a lot more money than it currently is.

I'd say a lot of it is down to Ferrari, the F1 team in particular, being made more accountable in a corporate context. It'll either end up being run all wrong as Toyota and Jaguar were with unwelcome boardroom interference/indifference, or else end up being 'off-loaded' somehow into a separate entity and run at arm's length.

Rumours abound that Arrivabene is yet another stop-gap appointment so the fun might not be over just yet.

recyclebin

Vettel would hardly join a team without seeing their future plans would he?

Zcott

They won't be leaving F1, especially after investing a fortune in Vettel. And they'll have a plan to get back on top, which Vettel will see.

Going Strong

Autosport are reporting that Mattiacci was sacked because he'd rubbed Bernie up the wrong way and it was felt that he'd have no influence when it came to the politics of F1 as a result. Hence Arrivabene getting the job as he's already bestest buds with Bernie. So, typical Ferrari then, if you can't beat the opposition on the track, do it via bending the right ears.

_rebelkid

Vettel's started work already...

_rebelkid

OSI wrote: »

Ohhhh... Interesting. I thought Red Bull were trying to actively block him from working until after testing was over.

Yeah, although I think this is all being passed of as a friendly "Hello"...

Zcott

He's not being allowed to drive the car but he can hang out in the garage and meet all the right people.

veganrun

The interim McLaren Honda didn't exactly have a stellar day.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/11/bottas-heads-day-one-of-abu-dhabi-test-as-mclaren-honda-makes-stuttering-debut/

TheChrisD

Schwiiing wrote: »

I'd like to make the races shorter by about 20-30 mins.

No way, if anything they need to be longer. This is supposed to be the pinnacle, yet other series have longer races than F1. Most of them are 1h30m or 1h40m (Monza's only 1h20m!), when they should be ideally around 2h15m. Makes the races 400 or 450km instead of the current ~307km.

Schwiiing

TheChrisD wrote: »

No way, if anything they need to be longer. This is supposed to be the pinnacle, yet other series have longer races than F1. Most of them are 1h30m or 1h40m (Monza's only 1h20m!), when they should be ideally around 2h15m. Makes the races 400 or 450km instead of the current ~307km.

If Mercedes continue their level of dominance F1 will become as boring as the Schumacher or Vettel years. Processional race after processional race back then. Imagine if all those races were 50% longer. People would turn off in their droves.

Frank Bullitt

Well it sounds louder at least!

TheChrisD

Schwiiing wrote: »

If Mercedes continue their level of dominance F1 will become as boring as the Schumacher or Vettel years. Processional race after processional race back then. Imagine if all those races were 50% longer. People would turn off in their droves.

Add more distance, but keep the fuel limit the same, might add a bit more strategy to the races which revolve too much around tyres right now.

Gintonious wrote: »

Well it sounds louder at least!

Sounds a lot like the current IndyCar engine. Maybe they got some help from HPD into making a decent turbo engine that doesn't sound pants?

Slutmonkey57b

Loud engine = wasted energy!

Charlie-Bravo

So, is the Mercedes engine the quietest? Anyone have any sound level stats?

Frank Bullitt

This is also a test PU, it wont be the one they run for pre-season testing.

Infoanon

Jordan 191 wrote: »

It was 21 years ago when the Lamborghini name was in F1. Lamborghini were owned by Chrysler back then.

Senna and Hakkinen tested a McLaren with a Lamborghini V12 in the back in 1993. Instead of using the Lamborghini V12 engines for 1994, McLaren went with Peugeot, a partnership that only lasted one season.

Senna testing a Lamborghini powered McLaren ]

Senna wanted to race the Mclaren Lamborghini at the last 2 races of 1993 following the test - races Ayrton won in the McLaren Ford.

Jordan 199

Infoanon wrote: »

Senna wanted to race the Mclaren Lamborghini at the last 2 races of 1993 following the test - races Ayrton won in the McLaren Ford.

That's right. They were customer Ford engines too as Benetton had the works Ford engines.

_rebelkid

Tobias Grüner of Auto Motor und Sport is reporting that the F1 Commission has scrapped standing restarts, double points and the radio bans for 2015.

GarIT

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I'd take half a second slower if they sounded nicer.

A lot of people would, but what team would choose to loose power.

PopePalpatine

I wonder, is there a more efficient way of making more noise with the same amount of energy? Please don't say trumpets.

GarIT

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder, is there a more efficient way of making more noise with the same amount of energy? Please don't say trumpets.

Physics says no. To create noise you need to use energy from elsewhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Noise in an engine is caused by friction or vibrations, neither are good.

Going Strong

_rebelkid wrote: »

Tobias Grüner of Auto Motor und Sport is reporting that the F1 Commission has scrapped standing restarts, double points and the radio bans for 2015.

Well, that's really going to lower costs isn't it? Who says the powers that be in F1 can't run the proverbial in a brewery? :rolleyes:

Myrddin

GarIT wrote: »

A lot of people would, but what team would choose to loose power.

Meh, they've to drive deltas to protect fuel & tires anyway, so not as if they're flat out for the whole race. They may as well sound good while doing it

GarIT

Myrddin wrote: »

Meh, they've to drive deltas to protect fuel & tires anyway, so not as if they're flat out for the whole race. They may as well sound good while doing it

It's not top speed that they would reduce though, it's acceleration and horsepower that they would loose. Minimally but there would be a loss. If you increase noise they have to use more fuel to maintain the same speed as well as increasing engine wear.

clear thinking

Was that Lamborghini engine being used by Scuderia Italia in 1993? As I recall McLaren opted for peugeot which was a disaster, jordan ended up with them a year later as cast offs and did ok despite it being 30kg over weight and costing about 50 points and multiple podiums by blowing up. Lambo ditched F1 when Mclaren didnt sign up. *edit: google has reminded me it was larousse F1 with the lamborghini motor.

Myrddin

GarIT wrote: »

It's not top speed that they would reduce though, it's acceleration and horsepower that they would loose. Minimally but there would be a loss. If you increase noise they have to use more fuel to maintain the same speed as well as increasing engine wear.

I take your point, & I think the physics are indisputable, it's just, I think an F1 car should be awe inspiring, not just from being cutting edge, but should rattle your very soul too