Charlatan "girl against flouride" finally exposed

AnonoBoy

turbot wrote: »

Also, please qualify for us, are you a qualified scientific researcher?

I'm not but I trust those who are highly qualified in their field. I would certainly trust them over the Girl Against Fluoride who seems to not even have an understanding of science up to Junior Cert level.

Capt'n Midnight

MS.ing wrote: »

its this simple really, just wear your tinfoil hat and that will protect you from the flouride.

That's what they want you to think.

Tinfoil hats aren't shields, it's more like wearing a satellite dish tuned to government frequencies. http://boingboing.net/2012/10/01/tinfoil-hats-actually-amplify.html

turbot

Muise... wrote: »

Jesus take the wheel, the "logical leap" is to find that some of the things she believes in are illogical. This is based on evidence and reason. Let her get her tits out and make all the requests she wants, the concern is that she might be heeded in her delusions.

Actually, if you study belief systems, you'll find there is great variance in what people believe.

A large proportion of the World believe in an imaginary friend called God who they think controls everything. A large proportion of the people in the World believe in multiple imaginary friends they refer to as Gods. Like Robert Anton Wilson says, some people spend their whole lives engaged in religious wars alledgely based upon whos imaginary friend is better.

If a person believes in some stuff that seems stupid to you, it does not mean that all their perceptions are flawed, or requests incorrect. And science is an evolving field, in 100 years time, we will have completely different views on what we think is true today, and look back upon our current ideas as being as crude as medicinal practices from 1910.

Obviously you have never read: http://www.amazon.com/The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/dp/0226458083

Plates

turbot wrote: »

Actually, if you study belief systems, you'll find there is great variance in what people believe.

A large proportion of the World believe in an imaginary friend called God who they think controls everything. A large proportion of the people in the World believe in multiple imaginary friends they refer to as Gods. Like Robert Anton Wilson says, some people spend their whole lives engaged in religious wars alledgely based upon whos imaginary friend is better.

If a person believes in some stuff that seems stupid to you, it does not mean that all their perceptions are flawed, or requests incorrect. And science is an evolving field, in 100 years time, we will have completely different views on what we think is true today, and look back upon our current ideas as being as crude as medicinal practices from 1910.

Obviously you have never read: http://www.amazon.com/The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/dp/0226458083

Jesus

Muise...

turbot wrote: »

Actually, if you study belief systems, you'll find there is great variance in what people believe.

Indeed.

Some beliefs are based on the best of our knowledge and open to correction.

Some beliefs are based on false information.

Some beliefs are based on wishful thinking.

Some beliefs are so fcuking wrong they can't even see how wrong they are because fragile idiots hold on to them all their might.

I "believe" I'd rather let experts (who know things) decide on public health matters based on evidence.

Science is not a belief system.


[Also, I'm not saying that everything TGAF believes is wrong; just the nonsense about fluoride - you know, the actual subject of this thread.]

Jonny7

turbot wrote: »

Actually, if you study belief systems, you'll find there is great variance in what people believe.

A large proportion of the World believe in an imaginary friend called God who they think controls everything. A large proportion of the people in the World believe in multiple imaginary friends they refer to as Gods. Like Robert Anton Wilson says, some people spend their whole lives engaged in religious wars alledgely based upon whos imaginary friend is better.

If a person believes in some stuff that seems stupid to you, it does not mean that all their perceptions are flawed, or requests incorrect. And science is an evolving field, in 100 years time, we will have completely different views on what we think is true today, and look back upon our current ideas as being as crude as medicinal practices from 1910.

Obviously you have never read: http://www.amazon.com/The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/dp/0226458083

I thought everyone will be dead from fluoride poisoning in 100 years? - maybe the few survivors, the ones who only drank bottled water, bought bio lettuce and had regular acupuncture will dig up this thread in the archives and lament that we didn't all listen to fluoride girl

weisses

Neurodevelopmental disabilities, including autism, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, dyslexia, and other cognitive impairments, affect millions of children worldwide, and some diagnoses seem to be increasing in frequency. Industrial chemicals that injure the developing brain are among the known causes for this rise in prevalence. In 2006, we did a systematic review and identified five industrial chemicals as developmental neurotoxicants: lead, methylmercury, polychlorinated biphenyls, arsenic, and toluene. Since 2006, epidemiological studies have documented six additional developmental neurotoxicants—manganese, fluoride, chlorpyrifos, dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane, tetrachloroethylene, and the polybrominated diphenyl ethers. We postulate that even more neurotoxicants remain undiscovered. To control the pandemic of developmental neurotoxicity, we propose a global prevention strategy. Untested chemicals should not be presumed to be safe to brain development, and chemicals in existing use and all new chemicals must therefore be tested for developmental neurotoxicity. To coordinate these efforts and to accelerate translation of science into prevention, we propose the urgent formation of a new international clearinghouse.

Another nice one ...Labelling fluoride as a developmental neurotoxicant

To control the pandemic of developmental neurotoxicity, we propose a global prevention strategy

Probably another wacky CT conclusion .... Ohh wait

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422%2813%2970278-3/abstract

P. Breathnach

weisses wrote: »

Another nice one ...Labelling fluoride as a developmental neurotoxicant

To control the pandemic of developmental neurotoxicity, we propose a global prevention strategy

Probably another wacky CT conclusion .... Ohh wait

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422%2813%2970278-3/abstract

Just about every substance is dangerous when the dosages are high enough. The abstract you link gives no indication of the dosage that gives rise to concern.

weisses

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Just about every substance is dangerous when the dosages are high enough. The abstract you link gives no indication of the dosage that gives rise to concern.

To control the pandemic of developmental neurotoxicity, we propose a global prevention strategy. Untested chemicals should not be presumed to be safe to brain development, and chemicals in existing use and all new chemicals must therefore be tested for developmental neurotoxicity.

The fact they are worried should make you a bit more conscious as well

The "everything can be dangerous" spin doesn't fly here

Muise...

weisses wrote: »

The fact they are worried should make you a bit more conscious as well

The "everything can be dangerous" spin doesn't fly here

It's not the fluoride in the water supply they are worried about as that is measured and tested.

Ziphius

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The abstract you link gives no indication of the dosage that gives rise to concern.

Neither does the body of the text. Just a reference to "children exposed to raised fluoride concentrations"

weisses

Muise... wrote: »

It's not the fluoride in the water supply they are worried about as that is measured and tested.

Where does it it get tested regarding the Neurotoxicity ?

Muise...

weisses wrote: »

Where does it it get tested regarding the Neurotoxicity ?

That is a question of dosage and we know that the amount (dose) of fluoride that is added to the water is far far less than the amount that can cause physical problems. I think you're referring to tests in a part of China where fluoride occurs naturally in the water? The levels there were far higher than what is added to water, milk, salt etc. The proper public health initiative in that case would be to reduce the amount, which might confuse you if you don't appreciate that the dosage is what makes the difference, not the substance itself.

Night Falls

TGAF is either an idiot or a liar. Either way, I try not to have my views formed by those sorts of people.

I totally understand the ethical argument re. "forcing" fluoridation on the population, but stick to that if that's what you're against, don't bring in totally false scientific arguments into the equation.

The "big pharma" conspiracy is also so weak that it doesn't stand up to even the smallest of scrutinies. Just have a look at how much is spent per year in this country on fluoridation. Around €4m a year overall, but only €1.3m on purchasing of the material. Does that sound like the sort of figures that would be worthy of some grand conspiracy that's meant to line the pockets of pharmaceutical companies, whose turnover, incidentally, would likely be large multiples of this figure?

Capt'n Midnight

Lancet

http://blog.americanchemistry.com/2014/02/authors-ignore-fundamental-principles-of-science-in-lancet-paper-opt-for-alarmism/

Second, the authors’ two reports focus largely on 12 chemicals and heavy metals that are well understood to pose potential risks to children when exposures exceed established thresholds; that are highly regulated and/or are restricted; or that are being phased out. They then extrapolate that similar conclusions should be applied to other chemicals that are more widely used in consumer products without providing any evidence to support their claims.

...
“To implicate high fluoride, which they quote as one of the new chemicals…they quote only one paper; this only compares the mean IQs of children in villages with different levels of fluoride, with no allowance made for any other differences, and no actual measurement of fluoride in individual children and comparison with their IQs. This is not good evidence.”

So if excess levels of "fluoride" are dangerous then perhaps we should set limits ?
We did , over 60 years ago.

Again a reminder that naturally occurring levels of fluoride in water in many parts of the world are way outside our limits

P. Breathnach

weisses wrote: »

...The "everything can be dangerous" spin doesn't fly here

For a very tightly-circumscribed definition of "here".

Capt'n Midnight

Night Falls wrote: »

The "big pharma" conspiracy is also so weak that it doesn't stand up to even the smallest of scrutinies. Just have a look at how much is spent per year in this country on fluoridation. Around €4m a year overall, but only €1.3m on purchasing of the material. Does that sound like the sort of figures that would be worthy of some grand conspiracy that's meant to line the pockets of pharmaceutical companies, whose turnover, incidentally, would likely be large multiples of this figure?

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Source-a-Product-or-Service-from-Ireland/Sector-and-Company-Directories/Pharmaceutical-Sector-Profile.pdf

• In 2009, exports of pharmaceutical and medicinal products
exceeded €19.5 billion making Ireland one of the largest net
exporters of pharmaceuticals in the world.
• Using the broader pharmachem measure, exports in 2009
exceeded €47 billion, or 56% of all Irish exports.
• The pharmaceutical industry in Ireland directly employs over
24,000 people with a further 25,000 employed in the provision of
services to the sector.

And let's not forget that the €1.3m is spent on "toxic waste" rather than a product that big-pharma actually make

It's easier to tell the truth, because it's usually more consistent. When there are whopping great inconsistencies in an argument the likelyhood of it being totally truthful diminish.

Muise...

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Source-a-Product-or-Service-from-Ireland/Sector-and-Company-Directories/Pharmaceutical-Sector-Profile.pdf

And let's not forget that the €1.3m is spent on "toxic waste" rather than a product that big-pharma actually make

It's easier to tell the truth, because it's usually more consistent. When there are whopping great inconsistencies in an argument the likelyhood of it being totally truthful diminish.

Occam's Razor FTW!

Night Falls

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Source-a-Product-or-Service-from-Ireland/Sector-and-Company-Directories/Pharmaceutical-Sector-Profile.pdf

And let's not forget that the €1.3m is spent on "toxic waste" rather than a product that big-pharma actually make

It's easier to tell the truth, because it's usually more consistent. When there are whopping great inconsistencies in an argument the likelyhood of it being totally truthful diminish.

I think this is about the time when someone will interject by hysterically shouting "WASTE PRODUCT" as if that's some sort of argument winner.

weisses

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Lancet

www.repubblica.it/esteri/2014/03/12/foto/cina_-80804697/1/?ref=fbpr

So if excess levels of "fluoride" are dangerous then perhaps we should set limits ?
We did , over 60 years ago.

Again a reminder that naturally occurring levels of fluoride in water in many parts of the world are way outside our limits

My Italian is not that good

So the Lancet article is 60 years out of date ... So much for respectable papers

Its al grant then so ?

Muise...

weisses wrote: »

My Italian is not that good

So the Lancet article is 60 years out of date ... So much for respectable papers

Its al grant then so ?

Your Science is not that good either.

darkpagandeath

So no one is worried about untreated sewage getting into the fresh water supply. Just fluoride ? :pac:

Capt'n Midnight

weisses wrote: »

My Italian is not that good

oops,
try this one http://blog.americanchemistry.com/2014/02/authors-ignore-fundamental-principles-of-science-in-lancet-paper-opt-for-alarmism/

The other one was about trying to stop kids being short sighted

So the Lancet article is 60 years out of date ... So much for respectable papers

Its al grant then so ?

The Lancet article is behind a paywall so meh.

But if the gist of it is telling us that elevated levels of some fluorides can be dangerous then yeah it's 60 years behind the safety legislation.

It's like pointing out that 1950's cars could be safer if they had seat belts when the reality is that today's cars have mandatory seat belts, and also have ABS, crumple zones and air bags.

jh79

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/no-plans-to-examine-fluoride-in-public-water-despite-promise-272173.html

So looks like it is here to stay.

Plates

I see she's having an event on September 28th. Might be good for a laugh? Be interesting to see what new theories she's come up with or if it's just the usual tenuous links to fluoride being the cause of most illnesses in the world:

http://www.thegirlagainstfluoride.com/event/

Bafucin

Sky King wrote: »

I clicked on the links hoping to see her exposed as described.

Sadly, nothing. Don't waste your time.

She just needs to drop that sign she's holding a couple of inches!

jh79

Plates wrote: »

I see she's having an event on September 28th. Might be good for a laugh? Be interesting to see what new theories she's come up with or if it's just the usual tenuous links to fluoride being the cause of most illnesses in the world:

http://www.thegirlagainstfluoride.com/event/

Seems to be just the usual, she says she drinks Pellegrino water and tea so is a bit confused on her fluoride stance given both contain either the same or more fluoride than Irish tap water.

Bafucin

What's her actual name?

Bafucin

http://thatcuriousloveofgreen.com/2013/09/08/a-day-in-the-life-aisling-fitzgibbon-the-girl-against-fluoride/

nevermind I found it...

Pedro K

A pretty good blog regarding this here...

link

zenbuffy

Another Geoff's Shorts link here, about the upcoming fluoride event in Dublin, and the shady goings on with its advertising: http://www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2014/09/the-gig-against-fluoride-wheres-evidence.html?m=1

Definitely worth a read!

zenbuffy

The Seanad will be discussing fluoride tonight, which means there's still time to email them and tell them not to be listening to nonsense...

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/ThisWeek/PMB-SEANAD-2014/document27.htm

Cianmcliam

zenbuffy wrote: »

Another Geoff's Shorts link here, about the upcoming fluoride event in Dublin, and the shady goings on with its advertising: http://www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2014/09/the-gig-against-fluoride-wheres-evidence.html?m=1

Definitely worth a read!

What a shambles. She posted on her Facebook page that it would now be free entry, but didn't seem to respond to people asking if those who paid would get refunds, the post has since been deleted.

AnonoBoy

Cianmcliam wrote: »

What a shambles. She posted on her Facebook page that it would now be free entry, but didn't seem to respond to people asking if those who paid would get refunds, the post has since been deleted.

Free in because no tickets were selling I'd say.

Did anyone go? What sort of turnout was there I wonder.

wp_rathead

zenbuffy wrote: »

The Seanad will be discussing fluoride tonight, which means there's still time to email them and tell them not to be listening to nonsense...

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/ThisWeek/PMB-SEANAD-2014/document27.htm

Thank feck it didn't get abolished eh?

Robbo

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Free in because no tickets were selling I'd say.

Did anyone go? What sort of turnout was there I wonder.

Christy Moore was washing his hair that night I believe. With lovely fluoridey water.

Genghiz Cohen

Robbo wrote: »

With lovely fluoridey water.

Why did I read this in Christy's voice?

AnonoBoy

Robbo wrote: »

Christy Moore was washing his hair that night I believe. With lovely fluoridey water.

It might give you asthma, cancer, brain damage, cancer, depression and cancer but fluoride sure does promote hair growth and keep existing hair silky smooth and tangle free.

ClovenHoof

Slow day at the Civil Service?

You would think this woman was Hitler by the histrionics on this thread.

AnonoBoy

ClovenHoof wrote: »

You would think this woman was Hitler by the histrionics on this thread.

A normal person wouldn't. If you do perhaps it's the fluoride affecting your brain.

Slow day at the Civil Service?

Everyone who works for the Civil Service is legally obligated to post on boards.ie for three hours a day, didn't you know that?

ClovenHoof

AnonoBoy wrote: »

A normal person wouldn't. If you do perhaps it's the fluoride affecting your brain.

Could you please rephrase this response in a syntax I am familiar with?

Skylinehead

You wouldn't find Hitler putting flouride in peoples water at 3 in the morning.

ClovenHoof

zenbuffy wrote: »

Another Geoff's Shorts link here, about the upcoming fluoride event in Dublin, and the shady goings on with its advertising: http://www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2014/09/the-gig-against-fluoride-wheres-evidence.html?m=1

Definitely worth a read!

Sure is! It is obvious that Geoff Shorts wants to ride The Girl Against Fluoride and is projecting his sexual frustrations via his internalised Freudian rage?

He comes across a bit of dick to be honest, you wouldn't have a beer with him in a million years, and I am neutral on this Fluoride issue, nasty Dawkins fanboy type.

Someone tell him it's no long 'cool' to be an atheist warrior. He needs to find a new self-impressed fad.

Beano

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Sure is! It is obvious that Geoff Shorts wants to ride The Girl Against Fluoride and is projecting his sexual frustrations via his internalised Freudian rage?

He comes across a bit of dick to be honest, you wouldn't have a beer with him in a million years, and I am neutral on this Fluoride issue, nasty Dawkins fanboy type.

Someone tell him it's no long 'cool' to be an atheist warrior. He needs to find a new self-impressed fad.

Are you related to flouride girl by any chance? You seem awfully upset at people giving her stick.

ClovenHoof

Beano wrote: »

Are you related to flouride girl by any chance? You seem awfully upset at people giving her stick.

Only seen her photo. She hasn't that much of a profile to the point I notice her much. But I will say this. There is something very nasty and 'witch hunter' in nature about this thread.

She is trashed fairly viciously on this forum, while the identities of the bunch of Irish scumbags (future civil servants and FF/FG/Lab councillors all no doubt) who wrecked the flat in San Francisco is protected by the boards mods.

When she has committed a crime against humanity or otherwise, then fair enough. All I see is a goofy public health campaign which is likely to go no where and which hardly deserves the histrionics and hatred on this thread.

That Geoff Shorts guy has far more serious 'issues' going on by his blog than any blonde bird from Kerry who thinks she is a superhero.

Beano

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Only seen her photo. She hasn't that much of a profile to the point I notice her much. But I will say this. There is something very nasty and 'witch hunter' in nature about this thread.

She is trashed fairly viciously on this forum, while the identities of the bunch of Irish scumbags (future civil servants and FF/FG/Lab councillors all no doubt) who wrecked the flat in San Francisco is protected by the boards mods.

When she has committed a crime against humanity or otherwise, then fair enough. All I see is a goofy public health campaign which is likely to go no where and which hardly deserves the histrionics and hatred on this thread.

That Geoff Shorts guy has far more serious 'issues' going on by his blog than any blonde bird from Kerry who thinks she is a superhero.

She has chosen to make herself a public figure. the guys in san francisco didnt. she has also chosen to make herself look like a fool.

ClovenHoof

Beano wrote: »

She has chosen to make herself a public figure. the guys in san francisco didnt.

That is one messed up rationalisation I must say.

Beano

ClovenHoof wrote: »

That is one messed up rationalisation I must say.

really? how so?

humanji

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Only seen her photo. She hasn't that much of a profile to the point I notice her much. But I will say this. There is something very nasty and 'witch hunter' in nature about this thread.

She is trashed fairly viciously on this forum, while the identities of the bunch of Irish scumbags (future civil servants and FF/FG/Lab councillors all no doubt) who wrecked the flat in San Francisco is protected by the boards mods.

When she has committed a crime against humanity or otherwise, then fair enough. All I see is a goofy public health campaign which is likely to go no where and which hardly deserves the histrionics and hatred on this thread.

That Geoff Shorts guy has far more serious 'issues' going on by his blog than any blonde bird from Kerry who thinks she is a superhero.

Firstly, stop with the petty swipes at other users because you don't like them bitching about someone who put themselves in the public eye.

Secondly, this is completely different from the lads in San Francisco as those guys were being accused of a crime and so any attempt at identifying them on here was removed. Bitching about them continued unabated.

Thirdly, why do you object to people speaking ill of her, yet you'll happily insult the lads in the San Francisco fiasco and the Geoff Shorts guy, all while still claiming to not be taking sides?

AnonoBoy

Anyone who disagrees with you is a civil servant Clovenhoof?

Surely there can't be that many civil servants out there!