Charlatan "girl against flouride" finally exposed

Annasopra

lostdisk wrote: »

Have you read any of the counter arguments? Is it likely you're going ti change your mind?

Counterarguments that TGAF should ge taken seriously?

Annasopra

lostdisk wrote: »

Lay off the flouride for a while.

Does it cause dyslexia now?

stuar

Corkfeen wrote: »

Plenty of things are highly toxic in high concentrations but are perfectly fine at low levels. Water is toxic if ingested in large enough quantities.

:rolleyes:Exactly!

Children getting 250 times more fluoride than nature intended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZU9ZH1rmcw

Muise...

mango salsa wrote: »

Does it cause dyslexia now?

the self-raising flouride does.

Corkfeen

stuar wrote: »

:rolleyes:Exactly!

Children getting 250 times more fluoride than nature intended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZU9ZH1rmcw

The levels of fluoride are 250 times that of mother's milk. What an awful argument. Nature also didn't intend humans to fly, does that make it bad? Humans live to far greater ages now that aren't as the result of nature rather modern medicine. However living to an older age means that decreasing tooth decay in our lifetime would be preferable as we need them for much longer. Toothpaste also isn't natural, should we cease use?

Fr_Dougal

lostdisk wrote: »

Am I supposed to re-arrange those words to form a sentence?

Lay off the flouride for a while.

You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?

Aineoil

Corkfeen wrote: »

Humans live to far greater ages now that aren't as the result of nature rather modern medicine. However living to an older age means that decreasing tooth decay in our lifetime would be preferable as we need them for much longer. Toothpaste also isn't natural, should we cease use?

Good points.

Life expectancy for a white American woman in 1930 was 61.6.
In 2010 it was 81.1.

Source: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005148.html

20 more years of teeth washing in 2010 than in 1930.

I use Euthymol toothpaste. I like the taste. I really don't have a problem with fluroide.

lostdisk

Corkfeen wrote: »

The levels of fluoride are 250 times that of mother's milk. What an awful argument. Nature also didn't intend humans to fly, does that make it bad? Humans live to far greater ages now that aren't as the result of nature rather modern medicine. However living to an older age means that decreasing tooth decay in our lifetime would be preferable as we need them for much longer. Toothpaste also isn't natural, should we cease use?

So countries that don't fluoridate the water supply are full of gummy young dead people?

Fluoride vs the zombie apocalypse.

newbie2013

Aineoil wrote: »

Life expectancy for a white American woman in 1930 was 61.6.
In 2010 it was 81.1.

.

Do you know how the come to these stats. If you kinew, youll know they are bullsh1t and we are not living older than generations before. We are living the same

srsly78

Yeah it's bull****. Sure the lads in the bible lived to over 1000 years of age. They didn't have fluoride back then!

Aineoil

newbie2013 wrote: »

Do you know how the come to these stats. If you kinew, youll know they are bullsh1t and we are not living older than generations before. We are living the same

I gave the source

here is is again
/linkhttp://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005148.html

stuar

mango salsa wrote: »

Don't you just love how noone can counterargue against anything in the blog posts in the OP.

Ok here's your first link, It begins like this:
(I'll bolden his text, and counterargue against)


Fluoride is great. Can't get enough of the stuff. I strongly support its continued addition to the Irish water supply.

The man is an idiot trying to be humorous, he fails. He states that fluoride "is great", it's not, it's an industrial waste product and toxin.
"Can't get enough of the stuff", this idiotic bs speaks for itself (see above)


But that's the stuff of another blog post.

Because he's talking through his hole, he's ignorant and couldn't write a single on the subject.

For now I'd like a quick look at its most vocal opponent, Aisling FitzGibbon, perhaps better known as the Girl Against Fluoride. She's gained attention from the Sunday World, The Journal, Hot Press, and seems to have earned the ear of politicians such as Thomas Pringle, Brian Stanley and (I note with sadness) Senator David Norris.

Trying to insult a girl because she doesn't want fluoride in her water along with many 1000's of other informed people across Ireland, and many brave health professional who aren't afraid to speak out about the status quo, all this insult because he prefers mass medication, again he's an idiot.


Her main approach to publicity seems best captured by the Google image search result to the right of this text.

Which leads to a picture of a girl holding a banner with facts written on it, in a bikini in public......:eek:.
How on earth could anybody take her seriously, you can see her knickers..


"By focusing on optimizing your 12-Strand DNA, this class will open your energetic pathways to manifestation and support you in living the life that you are destined to live."

Her other views not connected to the govt putting a toxin in our water supply to distract from her other message about fluoride and mass medication of a nation, which he loves!


I was curious as to why she so vehemently opposed this safe and long-standing improvement to the dental health of the Irish nation

Bullsh1t statement, dental health has improved all across the planet without fluoridation, and has been shown to have numerous adverse effects, thats why "Informed" people oppose it.

Fluoridated Water Is Causing Low Thyroid

Commentary on 2006 Research Findings

http://thyroid.about.com/od/drsrichkarileeshames/a/fluoride2006.htm

The thyroid controls mood, weight and energy as quoted below, and also causes depression, have you ever heard of somebody who was depressed in Ireland?

"The thyroid gland produces and regulates hormones. These hormones can affect energy levels, mood, even weight. They can also be factors in depression. Read on to find out what causes thyroid-related depression and how it's treated"
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/depression-the-thyroid-and-hormones



so I travelled to her about page, where I read that FitzGibbon is a qualified "Master Integrated Energy Therapist".

Thinking perhaps that this might indicate some talent as an electrician I read further. It seems not. Rather, FitzGibbon chose to invest 685 Euro - of presumably her own money - on a weekend course that promises the following......

The rest of the link/page says absolutely NOTHING about fluoride, just his personal views and stupidness and slating her for doing various courses and educating herself in nutrition amongst other things, something he should really do if he's to slag somebody more knowledgable than himself on the subject.


Then he finishes on a woo bonus with this gem:

"To those who have read all the above I feel some bonus woo is earned. Below, FitzGibbon shares her thoughts on WiFi:"

And adds this facebook capture to try ridicle her....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Pe8KLxhp1ks/UosES7wGVEI/AAAAAAAAATg/vflH9Qi9rd8/s1600/wifiterror.png

Yet looking at science you'll find there is plenty of evidence saying she's actually right.......

https://www.google.ie/search?newwindow=1&q=emf+frequencies+interfere+with+brain&oq=emf+frequencies+interfere+with+brain&gs_l=serp.3...403292.408112.0.409641.7.7.0.0.0.0.31.186.7.7.0....0...1c.1.32.serp..7.0.0.U_6t-G3f6dQ

Could certain frequencies of electromagnetic waves or radiation interfere with brain function?

Amir Raz, assistant professor of clinical neuroscience at Columbia University, offers the following answer.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=could-certain-frequencies
Wi-Fi Health Dangers & Radiation Health Effects

http://www.safespaceprotection.com/electrostress-from-wireless-routers.aspx
And the very scientific PubMed:
Effects of high-frequency electromagnetic fields on human EEG: a brain mapping study

The results suggested that cellular phones may reversibly influence the human brain, inducing abnormal slow waves in EEG of awake persons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12881192

So all in all I'd call this blogger a gobsh1te.

stuar

Corkfeen wrote: »

The levels of fluoride are 250 times that of mother's milk. What an awful argument. Nature also didn't intend humans to fly, does that make it bad? Humans live to far greater ages now that aren't as the result of nature rather modern medicine. However living to an older age means that decreasing tooth decay in our lifetime would be preferable as we need them for much longer. Toothpaste also isn't natural, should we cease use?

WTF kind of b0llox is that?, nature didn't intend for fish to hillwalk either, does that make fish or hillwalking bad?, that's an idiotic response you tried to make.

If fluoridation is so great dentists will become extinct shortly as anybody born after in the 1960's or later will never need them........:rolleyes:

Cop on.

srsly78

What about all the Nitrogen in our air supply? A dangerous chemical often used in explosives!

Corkfeen

stuar wrote: »

WTF kind of b0llox is that?, nature didn't intend for fish to hillwalk either, does that make fish or hillwalking bad?, that's an idiotic response you tried to make.

If fluoridation is so great dentists will become extinct shortly as anybody born after in the 1960's or later will never need them........:rolleyes:

Cop on.

It is beneficial to teeth,your point was that there's more fluoride than in breast milk. It being a larger amount than the fluoride in breast milk,proves nothing in itself and it does not mean that it's bad as a result. It's viewed to be a safe and exceedingly low concentration of fluoride. I never claimed that it'll complete obliterate tooth decay however it is beneficial.

WilyCoyote

Of course dentists are against the flouride argument. Do turkeys vote for Christmas!

Sarky

Anti-fluoride movements make baby jebubs cry

Mostly because their leaders are manipulating the healing energy rays of angels.

Rabelais

Sarky wrote: »

Anti-fluoride movements make baby jebubs cry

Mostly because their leaders are manipulating the healing energy rays of angels.

Sterling contribution.

ballsymchugh

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Of course dentists are against the flouride argument. Do turkeys vote for Christmas!

eh, wrong. a tiny minority of dentists are against fluoride for unknown reasons. some lad called don mcauley from navan was fairly vocal about it a few years ago, but he hasn't said much recently.

WilyCoyote

ballsymchugh wrote: »

eh, wrong. a tiny minority of dentists are against fluoride for unknown reasons. some lad called don mcauley from navan was fairly vocal about it a few years ago, but he hasn't said much recently.

Probably badly fitting dentures

Bipolar Joe

Hands up, who can read and completely understand any of the pro / anti fluoride scientific papers? If you say you can, post a picture of some science degree or other (Preferably your own), in lieu of actual proof.

Blahblah2012

Corkfeen wrote: »

It is beneficial to teeth,your point was that there's more fluoride than in breast milk. It being a larger amount than the fluoride in breast milk,proves nothing in itself and it does not mean that it's bad as a result. It's viewed to be a safe and exceedingly low concentration of fluoride. I never claimed that it'll complete obliterate tooth decay however it is beneficial.

The pro fluoride bandwagon are full of sh1t. I know plenty of people who have their own wells or filter the fluoride from the water and they(and their teeth) are none the worse for it.

Sarky

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Hands up, who can read and completely understand any of the pro / anti fluoride scientific papers? If you say you can, post a picture of some science degree or other (Preferably your own), in lieu of actual proof.

Hi there.

Here's a picture of me at my M.Sc. graduation a couple of years ago. It's rather large, and it's after the ceremony with a drink or five under my belt, so you might appreciate why I have drawn the hood over my head and was attempting to use the Force to strangle faculty heads, but I digress.

I've understood the scientific papers from the pro-fluoride folks. The anti-fluoride ones are, how shall I put this, a little thin on the ground. Most of them are actually papers proving the benefits of fluoridation, but most of the people pushing them haven't actually read them, and those who did either didn't understand them or just cherry-picked bits and pieces out of context to try and spin a scare-story.

Fluoridation of water is a Good Thing. At low levels like in Irish water, it provides huge benefits to dental health. For any adverse effects to manifest, there'd have to be several times more fluoride in the water than there is. It's useful at low concentrations, just like oxygen, which is a fatally toxic gas if you happened to breathe it at higher levels than we have in the atmosphere for long.

When the leaders of a campaign are claiming scientific knowledge but also claim that the healing rays of angels can be manipulated (after a €1,000 certification course, naturally) or claim that birth control pills and vaccines make you autistic and/or gay, or even that they can cure cancer with castor oil, it might be time to examine whether that campaign has any merit.

weisses

Sarky wrote: »

Hi there.

Here's a picture of me at my M.Sc. graduation a couple of years ago.

It is the face i would expect with the nickname "Sarky"

It would be fair to mention that many of the people opposing fluoridation are also scientist and other proffesionals, but i understand the concern with some lobby's

Sarky

For the record, I've nothing against people campaigning against water fluoridation on, say, the grounds that it should be opt-in. There's a valid point to be made about governments taking care of their citizens to the point of being a nanny-state.

But campaign on that, and check your sources, and argue rationally. Don't go adding religious faith-healing bullsh*t and misrepresented science and anti-vaccine idiocy to the mix, you'll destroy any credibility your concern ever had.

Sin City

Ok new to this whole story but if some one with no qualifications comes out and says fluoride is bad and follows it up with urine cures cancer and gay pills I'm likely not to believe them how has this person gotten support?

My name is URL

Sin City wrote: »

Ok new to this whole story but if some one with no qualifications comes out and says fluoride is bad and follows it up with urine cures cancer and gay pills I'm likely not to believe them how has this person gotten support?

Because she took her clothes off

Muise...

Sarky wrote: »

When the leaders of a campaign are claiming scientific knowledge but also claim that the healing rays of angels can be manipulated (after a €1,000 certification course, naturally) or claim that birth control pills and vaccines make you autistic and/or gay, or even that they can cure cancer with castor oil, it might be time to examine whether that campaign has any merit.

problem is they not only have no scientific knowledge, they have no knowledge of science.

lostdisk

Muise... wrote: »

problem is they not only have no scientific knowledge, they have no knowledge of science.

The fuoride campaign has been going on since the seventies in different countries. Backed by many doctors.and scientists.

Muise...

lostdisk wrote: »

The fuoride campaign has been going on since the seventies in different countries. Backed by many doctors.and scientists.

I was talking about the angels wing of the campaign - who clearly do not know how science works.

Femme_Fatale

Judging by most people on this thread who passionately support this woman... good auld character/intelligence barometer.

My name is URL

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Judging by most people on this thread who passionately support this woman... good auld character/intelligence barometer.

I count one person that seems to be supportive of her and her asinine campaign.

Capt'n Midnight

drdeadlift wrote: »

Isnt there a gland in the brain effected by the flouride

Nope.

In older people the pineal gland may contain calcium deposits anyway.

Fluoride binds to calcium. It binds to the calcium in bones & teeth and to the calcium deposits already in the pineal. Calcium Fluoride is insoluble and inert.


And a reminder that the natural water supply in many parts of China and India would be completely illegal here because it contains too much fluoride.

ballsymchugh

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Nope.

In older people the pineal gland may contain calcium deposits anyway.

Fluoride binds to calcium. It binds to the calcium in bones & teeth and to the calcium deposits already in the pineal. Calcium Fluoride is insoluble and inert.


And a reminder that the natural water supply in many parts of China and India would be completely illegal here because it contains too much fluoride.

kinda.

the way it works in enamel is that it replaces the calcium that is lost due to decay. enamel is made up of calcium hydroxyapatite, with calcium pretty much in the centre of the molecule. if the calcium bond is broken (as what happens in decay) then the enamel breaks down. fluoride replaces the calcium with stronger bonds to the hydroxyapatite making the enamel stronger (which is why kids that have fluorosis actually have stronger teeth)

Bipolar Joe

Sarky wrote: »

Hi there.

Here's a picture of me at my M.Sc. graduation a couple of years ago. It's rather large, and it's after the ceremony with a drink or five under my belt, so you might appreciate why I have drawn the hood over my head and was attempting to use the Force to strangle faculty heads, but I digress.

I've understood the scientific papers from the pro-fluoride folks. The anti-fluoride ones are, how shall I put this, a little thin on the ground. Most of them are actually papers proving the benefits of fluoridation, but most of the people pushing them haven't actually read them, and those who did either didn't understand them or just cherry-picked bits and pieces out of context to try and spin a scare-story.

Fluoridation of water is a Good Thing. At low levels like in Irish water, it provides huge benefits to dental health. For any adverse effects to manifest, there'd have to be several times more fluoride in the water than there is. It's useful at low concentrations, just like oxygen, which is a fatally toxic gas if you happened to breathe it at higher levels than we have in the atmosphere for long.

When the leaders of a campaign are claiming scientific knowledge but also claim that the healing rays of angels can be manipulated (after a €1,000 certification course, naturally) or claim that birth control pills and vaccines make you autistic and/or gay, or even that they can cure cancer with castor oil, it might be time to examine whether that campaign has any merit.

Rightio, so score one for the (I think) pro-fluoride, or at the very least, don't-care-too-much-fluoride side of the battle, if indeed Darth Sidious over here is the guy in the photo. Any rebuttal from the other side?

melissak

What does any of this prove? She is entitled to have opinions about whatever she likes. How do you know vaccinations are good for you? "They" said thalidomide was good for pregnant women. "They" said pesticides were safe.

Scientists, doctors etc have said a lot that has been since proven untrue. How do you know castor oil isn't great for you? Have you studied it?? I have no idea either as I haven't heard of it before but that doesn't mean that i could categorically say that it is true or not. The point is that a huge amount of scientists worldwide have concluded that fluoridation is not good for you. That's why they don't fluoridate water in other countries.
My main concern with fluoride is the effect it may have on bottlefed babies and young children. I personally cannot see how it would be good for their underdeveloped systems and as a parent i believe that people have a right to demand what they believe is healthier for their children, whatever that may be according to their informed opinion.

I think fair play to this girl to put her money where her mouth is as it were and to get up and make a stand about something she feels strongly about instead of just accepting it when she genuinely believes people are being poisoned. Goes to show those who can do and those who can't bitch and moan and criticize those who do. Go ahead drink the fluoridated water, that choice is your right. Just the same as those who choose to have clean water also have rights. That's the joy of democracy.

Muise...

melissak wrote: »

i believe that people have a right to demand what they believe is healthier for their children, whatever that may be according to their informed opinion.

LOL!

The informations are not equal!

Duggy747

Oh, she can have an opinion like everybody else........except she's going around twisting / misreading studies and putting out misinformation which people are taking as fact, not opinion.

Plus, how do we know vaccinations are good? Are you actually serious?..........well you mentioned castor oil so I'll assume so.

Are you one of those who thinks Bill Gates is a eugenist?

Capt'n Midnight

melissak wrote: »

What does any of this prove? She is entitled to have opinions about whatever she likes. How do you know vaccinations are good for you?

Vaccinations aren't supposed to be good for you.

Vaccinations are supposed to elicit an immune response so you won't get infected or die you are exposed to that disease.


You are only better off not vaccinating if absolutely everyone else does, and you don't live in a country were there are lots of recent immigrants from parts of the world with endemic diseases and you don't have children in your house because they catch everything at school. But in a sane society we reserve that for people with suppressed immune systems because the healthy folk have built up a herd immunity.


People who don't vaccinate catch and spread diseases and a good few of the people they infect die. It's that simple. By not vaccinating you are placing a health burden on others and condemning future generations to suffer. And just to rub it in, you are not protecting your kids from harm.


But it's OK not to vaccinate since we haven't had an epidemic of a fatal disease in this part of the world recently. :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Swansea_measles_epidemic

The 2012–13 Swansea measles epidemic began in November 2012 and was declared over on 3 July 2013. There were a total of 1,219 measles notifications (suspected cases) in Swansea, Neath Port Talbot, Bridgend, Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire and Powys, with 1,455 measles notifications for the whole of Wales, 664 of which were in Swansea alone.[1] A total of 88 people were hospitalised for measles infection during the epidemic.[2] One death was reported: a 25-year old man suffering from giant cell pneumonia brought on by measles infection died on 18 April 2013.[3] The cost associated with treating the sick and controlling the outbreak exceeded £470,000

Corkfeen

The eradication of smallpox, and polio in most of the world would indicate that vaccines do a pretty fantastic job.

losthorizon

Boombastic wrote: »

Can you give a synopisis of what's going on? I can't be clicking on all those links.....ain't nobody got time for that

****ing young people. No wonder the leaving cert is so much easier nowadays and the junior cert is a piss in the park.

smileyj1987

Anyone got her number ? I would still give her one .

P. Breathnach

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Anyone got her number ? I would still give her one .

I rather doubt that she would allow you.

Nodin

Corkfeen wrote: »

The eradication of smallpox, and polio in most of the world would indicate that vaccines do a pretty fantastic job.

I'll go one step further and make that the claim that medicine = good. Extreme, I know, but thems me views.

Chancer3001

She looks like she'd be dirty.

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT THIS PRODUCT/CAUSE

Lefticus Loonaticus

Terrible quality video, sry. A west cork town has gotten fluoride out of their water. Altho, only by actually installing the technology themselves.

About time someone had the balls to go on national tv and tell the truth about the criminal actions of our governments. Putting industrial waste product into our water without our consent for decades.

Disgusting.

They cant hide behind the dental lobby or their sham 'expert body on fluorides' for much longer.

As for the girl against fluoride? I wish her the best of luck when she sues the state for poisoning the people.

Muise...

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Terrible quality video, sry. A west cork town has gotten fluoride out of their water. Altho, only by actually installing the technology themselves.

About time someone had the balls to go on national tv and tell the truth about the criminal actions of our governments. Putting industrial waste product into our water without our consent for decades.

Disgusting.

They cant hide behind the dental lobby or their sham 'expert body on fluorides' for much longer.

As for the girl against fluoride? I wish her the best of luck when she sues the state for poisoning the people.

hilarious video- Blinky and The Yank.

Chancer3001

Hilarious.

What is the criminal activity you're on about?

Please give me the law being broken.

Lefticus Loonaticus

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Hilarious.

What is the criminal activity you're on about?

Please give me the law being broken.

2005, European Court of Justice. No medical product may be given to consumers without appropriate scientific risk assessments.

Its fleshed out a bit more in this link ->

http://www.imt.ie/opinion/2012/08/fluoride-in-water-supply-is-exposing-our-citizens-to-unnecessary-hazards.html

Have a good read for yourself there. Im sure you'll find it hilarious.

Chancer3001

All that says is you can't give people "medicine" that hasn't been tested.

Fluoride has been tested over and over again.

Shows it's fine.

We've been over that a zillion times in this thread.