Charlatan "girl against flouride" finally exposed

Muise...

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

In many(if not all!) european countries the idea of forcing medication on people through tap water would be considered a fascist policy. The utter disrespect and contempt held in this country for the anti-fluoride campaign is doing more to increase the resistance than the campaign itself!

How dare irish people have their own opinions!

Chemistry does not give a fcuk about opinions.

Corkfeen

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Do you have a link for his dissociation from her?

Here you go.
https://twitter.com/lukeming/status/413611859007512576

Capt'n Midnight

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

From the indo today ->

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/argument-for-fluoridation-doesnt-hold-water-30033931.html
...

(Edit; Hmmm, if the indo are hiring gullible and neurotic people to write mad crazy articles to whip up public hysteria i might drop in a CV.)

Yes they are , and yes you should.

Try the Daily Mail too. They've had the Irish edition campaigning for vaccinating schoolgirls when the UK edition was campaigning against it.

I take it you've seen when Time/Newsweek carried the same picture of OJ Simpson ? Even reputable journals distort facts to peruse sales.


That whole article smacks of plagiarism because all the "facts" have been parroted from anti-flouride sites without attribution.

Lefticus Loonaticus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Even reputable journals distort facts to peruse sales.

Never a truer word said.

Capt'n Midnight

jh79 wrote: »

She has on facebook. She is dangerous plenty of gullible people out there if they believe her crap on fluoride god knows what else they could be taken in by.

Thankfully mobile phone hysteria has died down and I think "dirty electricity" is going away.

But Homoeopathy (ie. placebo effect ) and vaccination are still going strong. Fear of pylons and wind turbines is there now. Fear of incinerators is still there in areas where toxic emissions on bonfire night completely dwarf yearly emissions from incinerators.

It's almost a religion, complete with mantras and faith in the face of evidence.


And placebos work even when you tell people they are cornflour placebos.

ClovenHoof

Why are these atheists not trying to overturn the stupid 2009 Blasphemy Law with the same level of vitriol as they attack issues like this?

Muise...

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Thankfully mobile phone hysteria has died down and I think "dirty electricity" is going away.

But Homoeopathy (ie. placebo effect ) and vaccination are still going strong. Fear of pylons and wind turbines is there now. Fear of incinerators is still there in areas where toxic emissions on bonfire night completely dwarf yearly emissions from incinerators.

It's almost a religion, complete with mantras and faith in the face of evidence.


And placebos work even when you tell people they are cornflour placebos.

Fear of pylons, wind turbines and incinerators could be causing a sort of nocebo effect - the idea that they are causing harm causes harm in susceptible people.

It pretty much is a religion, for people who give out yards about the religion they grew up in, but seek the comfort of myths and sanctimony.

Capt'n Midnight

Filibuster wrote: »

Legal limits don't mean a thing in a mass medication program like flouridation. One person in this county could drink 8litres of flouridated tap water a day while their neighbour drinks none.

8 litres ?

Just 6 litres can be fatal.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/

Earlier this year, a 28-year-old California woman died after competing in a radio station's on-air water-drinking contest. After downing some six liters of water in three hours in the "Hold Your Wee for a Wii" (Nintendo game console) contest, Jennifer Strange vomited, went home with a splitting headache, and died from so-called water intoxication.

What legal limit should we set for water since we have actual hard evidence that overconsumption is dangerous ?

Capt'n Midnight

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

In many(if not all!) european countries the idea of forcing medication on people through tap water would be considered a fascist policy. The utter disrespect and contempt held in this country for the anti-fluoride campaign is doing more to increase the resistance than the campaign itself!

That's why they fluoridate the salt instead. In some places they fluoridate milk for school children.

There's a lot of dis-information (ie. blatant lies) about how not having fluoride in Norn Iron hasn't changed things.
http://www.dhsspsni.gov.uk/2007_06_25_ohs_full_7.0.pdf

Executive Summary
The oral health of Northern Ireland’s population is the worst in the United Kingdom
and this has been the case for many years. Over the decades the oral health of our
society has improved but the gains we have experienced have been much less than
those seen by our neighbours. The Republic of Ireland, which once had worse
children’s dental health than Northern Ireland now, thanks to water fluoridation,
boasts the lowest tooth decay levels in Europe.
...
The Republic of Ireland began fluoridating public water supplies in 1964 and now
more than 71% of the population receives fluoridated water. Prior to fluoridation
commencing in 1964, dental surveys were undertaken in Northern Ireland and the
Republic of Ireland. They showed that decay levels were higher in the South of
Ireland among 5-year-old children (figure 5). Similar surveys undertaken in 2002
found that, in fluoridated areas decay levels had dropped to almost half those found
in Northern Ireland were there is no water fluoridation (28) .

endacl

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Why are these atheists not trying to overturn the stupid 2009 Blasphemy Law with the same level of vitriol as they attack issues like this?

Because blasphemy is a victimless crime?

Robbo

Has Declan Waugh submitted his study for peer review yet, y'know, in the way that actual science is usually done?

If he hasn't or is unwilling to, his "analysis" may be regarded as being less reputable in terms of scientific rigour than the claims of Labaratoires Garnier or L'oreal.

Chancer3001

Banned by the eu in 2006??

Surely not.

The dept of water buying it from the black market? Sneaky divils.

The chlorine is an excellent argument.

ITS A LETHAL CHEMICAL USED IN CHEMICAL WARFARE AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

There are literally the same two or 3 points repeated over and over by the anti-flouride brigade. And none of them stand up to any scrutiny.

Lefticus Loonaticus

Robbo wrote: »

Has Declan Waugh submitted his study for peer review yet, y'know, in the way that actual science is usually done?

If he hasn't or is unwilling to, his "analysis" may be regarded as being less reputable in terms of scientific rigour than the claims of Labaratoires Garnier or L'oreal.

Declan Waugh's research is held in high esteem internationally. In Canada it caused four cities to cease water fluoridation immediately. Yet, some of you people just wont desist from trying to character assassinate him.

Me thinks the real reason behind all this huff and bluster is the very obvious reality that he is showing up the Irish establishments fluoridation policy and all who support it as the biggest bunch of incompetent nitwits on the face of the planet. Not to mention being criminally complicit in this scandal by knowingly ignoring evidence to the contrary.

Anti-fluoride people are not against science. Those who attack Waugh with such vitriol like the above quoted poster are the ones who are bringing science into disrepute (whatever they are trying to achieve, i havent a clue. Trying to protect their own positions of authority on the subject perhaps?).

Ill let Shane Ross have a go at the issue in a more parliamentary manner ->

Chancer3001

I'd like you to research the idea yourself. Read a few studies. From both sides.

The evidence is so glaringly clear that it's good for your teeth.

jh79

Waugh avoids the peer review process for a good reason, his ridiculous claims are not supported by the research he cites.

ancapailldorcha

Facts which have arisen from a Hotpress interview? Is this meant to be some kind of joke. Perhaps the rise in the rate of cardiovascular diseases could be due to the increase in sedimentary lifestyles, increased consumption of fast foods, etc but Shane Ross makes it look like fluoridation is to blame. I couldn't watch more than a few minutes of that tripe so, if I have missed anything pertinent which I doubt, please let me know.
Also, the fact that a search of "Declan Waugh" returns 0 results in a pubmed search tells me everything I need to know.

Robbo

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Declan Waugh's research is held in high esteem internationally. In Canada it caused four cities to cease water fluoridation immediately. Yet, some of you people just wont desist from trying to character assassinate him.

Links plz, with quotes from those tying Waugh's "research" to their position.

Lefticus Loonaticus wrote: »

Me thinks the real reason behind all this huff and bluster is the very obvious reality that he is showing up the Irish establishments fluoridation policy and all who support it as the biggest bunch of incompetent nitwits on the face of the planet. Not to mention being criminally complicit in this scandal by knowingly ignoring evidence to the contrary.

Anti-fluoride people are not against science. Those who attack Waugh with such vitriol like the above quoted poster are the ones who are bringing science into disrepute (whatever they are trying to achieve, i havent a clue. Trying to protect their own positions of authority on the subject perhaps?).

Ill let Shane Ross have a go at the issue in a more parliamentary manner ->

Bringing science into disrepute is self publishing studies outside of your field of expertise and refusing to have them peer reviewed. Bringing science into disrepute is ignoring the basis tenets of dosimetry if it doesn't fit your pre-conceived results. Bringing science into disrepute is pretending to be behind a cause whilst promoting your own particular alternative health business. Bringing science into disrepute is organising anti-flouride sentiment in a village and then selling people on your own filtration devices for €700 a pop lest those who are left behind be ostracised.

melissak

I mentioned castor oil to say I've never heard anything about it. Did you read my post?
Talk about twisting information.....

melissak

I imagine that the fluoride that occurs naturally in water is NATURAL no? I believe that this is her point, that UNNATURALLY adding something to our water is a bad idea. I personally don't have any faith in the government figuring its way out of a paper bag, not to mind figuring the safe level of anything..

melissak

It would make you wonder what their agenda is to completely ignore valid points from people who, unless I am mistaken and this is not a DEMOCRACY, are entitled to have an opinion.......

Muise...

melissak wrote: »

I imagine that the fluoride that occurs naturally in water is NATURAL no? I believe that this is her point, that UNNATURALLY adding something to our water is a bad idea. I personally don't have any faith in the government figuring its way out of a paper bag, not to mind figuring the safe level of anything..

Riiiight.

The government look at the best of our scientific knowledge to ascertain levels of fluoride that will improve dental health, but you'd personally have faith in an unvaccinated nutritionist angel healer who makes her case with her tits?

melissak

I'm sorry. I am new to boards i thought that post quick reply to a post would clarify who you were replying to. Do I have to copy and paste to do this or is there an easier way

Wacker The Attacker

mango salsa wrote: »

I really have despaired at Irish people over the last year or two who were taken by this clueless conspiracy theorist and am delighted that she is being finally exposed. I am delighted her previous supporters are now starting to withdraw their support. Luke Ming Flanagan announced the other day he no longer supports her.

The thing that I found really really hilarious and worrying at the same time is that some of her campaign team believe the pill and plastics cause homosexuality and castor oil cures cancer.

www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2013/11/girl-against-fluoride-f-minus-for-effort.html?m=1

www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2013/11/girl-against-fluoride-vaccine.html?m=1

www.geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2013/12/fluoride-girls-creative-director-links.html?m=1


www.corkskeptics.org/2013/12/18/water-fluoridation-and-leukaemia-the-missing-connection/


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7IibyOvUf1Fc0VuSmYyQTJFNTg/preview

I'd shag the girl in the pink knickers. Top left. The two top right are mad looking yokes

BlutendeRabe

melissak wrote: »

I imagine that the fluoride that occurs naturally in water is NATURAL no? I believe that this is her point, that UNNATURALLY adding something to our water is a bad idea. I personally don't have any faith in the government figuring its way out of a paper bag, not to mind figuring the safe level of anything..

In a number of cases where fluoride occurs naturally (e.g. Southwest America and a large part of Inida), the levels are way above accepted safety levels. This leads to problems with bone development and strength.

Just because something is natural doesnt mean its safe. Its the single biggest fallacy with a lot of Alt.Med practitioners.

melissak

srsly78 wrote: »

What about all the Nitrogen in our air supply? A dangerous chemical often used in explosives!

yes but we as a species have evolved to tolerate what occurs naturally in our environment. Otherwise species would have died out:)

Muise...

melissak wrote: »

yes but we as a species have evolved to tolerate what occurs naturally in our environment. Otherwise species would have died out:)

Oh no. So much remedial education. Such little time. Wow.

jh79

melissak wrote: »

yes but we as a species have evolved to tolerate what occurs naturally in our environment. Otherwise species would have died out:)

THere is no difference between the fluoride already present in our water and the fluoride that is added.

Robbo

jh79 wrote: »

THere is no difference between the fluoride already present in our water and the fluoride that is added.

But but but but.....[adopts sinister tone of voice]industrial waste byproduct.

A qualified sciencemologist with his PLC certificate in forestry management from West Bantry School for the Bewildered told me so...

melissak

BlutendeRabe wrote: »

In a number of cases where fluoride occurs naturally (e.g. Southwest America and a large part of Inida), the levels are way above accepted safety levels. This leads to problems with bone development and strength.

Just because something is natural doesnt mean its safe.[/QU
Yes, I am aware of this, but over generations a species will either adapt to its environment, die or move away. I am just saying that we have to put up with what is natural in our environment or move but that is not an argument to unnaturally add it to our water. Thank you for your info though I didn't know that about bone development in india etc. I just got on this thread to say people are entitled to their opinions

Muise...

Robbo wrote: »

But but but but.....[adopts sinister tone of voice]industrial waste byproduct.

A qualified sciencemologist with his PLC certificate in forestry management from West Bantry School for the Bewildered told me so...

and we should not dismiss his opinion because DEMOCRACY!!!!!!

Robbo

Muise... wrote: »

and we should not dismiss his opinion because DEMOCRACY!!!!!!

And if you don't like it, you're a communist. Who as it happens are trying to steal our precious bodily fluids through fluoridation.

Muise...

Robbo wrote: »

And if you don't like it, you're a communist. Who as it happens are trying to steal our precious bodily fluids through fluoridation.

OMG my calcified pineal gland just asploded!

ancapailldorcha

melissak wrote: »

BlutendeRabe wrote: »

In a number of cases where fluoride occurs naturally (e.g. Southwest America and a large part of Inida), the levels are way above accepted safety levels. This leads to problems with bone development and strength.

Just because something is natural doesnt mean its safe.[/QU
Yes, I am aware of this, but over generations a species will either adapt to its environment, die or move away. I am just saying that we have to put up with what is natural in our environment or move but that is not an argument to unnaturally add it to our water. Thank you for your info though I didn't know that about bone development in india etc. I just got on this thread to say people are entitled to their opinions

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but posting it on a discussion forum will open it up to criticism from that forum's users.

Robbo

Muise... wrote: »

OMG my calcified pineal gland just asploded!

Few crystals, some angel healing and a reverse osmosis filter and you'll be grand.

€1,500 please, invoice is in the post.

melissak

jh79 wrote: »

THere is no difference between the fluoride already present in our water and the fluoride that is added.

Except perhaps that it is ADDED...

Annasopra

ClovenHoof wrote: »

She never said anything like this from what I've read? Why the hatred? All she wants is for Fluoride to be a topical treatment like it is in most of Europe and not ingested.

How is this so appalling to you?

I don't hate her.

I just don't believe any of the nonsense from her or her campaign. It's apalling that so many people are gullible enough to believe it.

Jonny7

melissak wrote: »

yes but we as a species have evolved to tolerate what occurs naturally in our environment. Otherwise species would have died out:)

Think of all the naturally occurring diseases, bacteria, chemicals, deadly flora and fauna that can kill you

Have we evolved to deal with them? nooope

We just use technology to beat them.. we literally cheat illness and death

jh79

melissak wrote: »

Except perhaps that it is ADDED...

What's your point?

Jonny7

This must be the third time I've posted this but what the hey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

Corkfeen

Robbo wrote: »

And if you don't like it, you're a communist. Who as it happens are trying to steal our precious bodily fluids through fluoridation.

Have you ever seen a Russian drink water? No? That's because they drink vodka as they've fluoridated all the water!

I've been contemplating posting the same Strangelove clip.

melissak

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

You're entitled to your own opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts.

What facts did i offer except that she can say what she believes

melissak

jh79 wrote: »

What's your point?

what is yours. My point is that she can say what she believes as long as she has the courage to say it publicly under her own name instead of attacking someone for having the courage of her own convictions behind a screen name and a computer

jh79

melissak wrote: »

what is yours. My point is that she can say what she believes as long as she has the courage to say it publicly under her own name instead of attacking someone for having the courage of her own convictions behind a screen name and a computer

What has this got to do with your suggestion that the addition of fluoride is wrong?

melissak

Muise... wrote: »

Riiiight.

The government look at the best of our scientific knowledge to ascertain levels of fluoride that will improve dental health, but you'd personally have faith in an unvaccinated nutritionist angel healer who makes her case with her tits?

Riiiiight.
The government also look at the best of our economic knowledge to ascertain levels of knowing how to get out of a recession.... I never said that I have faith in anything. I have more respect for a person who makes a case with her tits and her own name and face than people who hide behind a screen name and a computer disparaging people who feel strongly about an issue who put their reputation where their mouth is...

melissak

Jonny7 wrote: »

Think of all the naturally occurring diseases, bacteria, chemicals, deadly flora and fauna that can kill you

Have we evolved to deal with them? nooope

We just use technology to beat them.. we literally cheat illness and death

We can't cheat death. Alas it comes to us all. I am not saying anything except that she like all of us is entitled to her opinion..

jh79

melissak wrote: »

We can't cheat death. Alas it comes to us all. I am not saying anything except that she like all of us is entitled to her opinion..

And we are entitled to challenge her opinion

Jonny7

melissak wrote: »

My point is that she can say what she believes

Yes, just as someone can say she is full of ****

Maybe some feel it's okay for people to be spreading nonsense, e.g. vaccines cause autism, but it's flat out wrong and could (and does) genuinely affect people who believe it

Jonny7

melissak wrote: »

We can't cheat death.

We do daily

"naturally occurring diseases, bacteria, chemicals, deadly flora and fauna"

I deliberately never mentioned old age

Capt'n Midnight

melissak wrote: »

Yes, I am aware of this, but over generations a species will either adapt to its environment, die or move away. I am just saying that we have to put up with what is natural in our environment or move but that is not an argument to unnaturally add it to our water. Thank you for your info though I didn't know that about bone development in india etc. I just got on this thread to say people are entitled to their opinions

No we don't have to put up with what is natural in our environment.

That, after all is why we have water treatment plants in the first place.

It's also why we have houses and clothes and cooked food and use fire and medicine. We have been cheating for most of the last 1.9 million years.



http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0044904

dating back to the Neolithic. Here we report a 6500-year-old human mandible from Slovenia whose left canine crown bears the traces of a filling with beeswax.

6,500 years later and we still need fillings , we aren't evolving fast enough :rolleyes:


http://www.juniordentist.com/oldest-tooth-decay-caries-found-in-paleozoic-reptile-dinosaur.html

The First recorded evidence of Tooth Decay / Caries has been seen in this Reptile named Labidosaurus hamatus or the “lipped lizard” which belonged to the Permian geological period which was 275 million years ago.

Hmmm... might take a bit longer than to evolve.

melissak

jh79 wrote: »

What has this got to do with your suggestion that the addition of fluoride is wrong?

Muise... wrote: »

Oh no. So much remedial education. Such little time. Wow.

Such little time?? I doubt that. You seem to have the opposite problem...again, hiding behind a screen name insulting people isn't big or clever..To speak to you in a language you MIGHT and this is a stretch, understand bounces off me and sticks to you. If you wish to personally insult me use your name. People are entitled to opinions. Not just you.