Adult dog having too many "accidents"

ShaShaBear

So, we moved about 6 months ago into a new house that doesnt quite have an enclosed garden. It would be quite steep financially to fence it, and we dont expect to be here by next Xmas. We took to taking him out on the lead, and it has been a disaster that has gone from bad to worse.

Just took him out this evening and he pooped and peed, but when heading upstairs to bed he dropped right on the stairs and started pooing again. This is a regular occurence, on the same stair. Weve tried scrubbing it with detergent. He ran downstairs, pooped again in the kitchen and weed as well, barely any since he had just been out. Hes been to the vet for this twice now and he says he is healthy and well for his age.

At 9 I know he cannot hold it. But it seems as though he is only relieving himself outside and finishing inside in specific spots when he can. He does not do this in my mothers, and she has a fenced garden, so I assume its that he would rather not go on the lead.

I guess im looking for advice now that I have a large chunk of time off for Xmas how to completely remove his scent from his chosen spots, and how best to go about retraining him using the lead. How long after feeding should an adult dog want to go out? Would an extendable lead help?

pampootie

I'm in no way an expert, but would it not be relatively cheap and painless to fence the garden with chicken wire and some posts? That's what we did with our jrt, we have about 4 layers of chicken wire around the garden and it holds him in. Also with the stairs, are you cleaning it with biological detergent? It breaks down the smell better

ShaShaBear

pampootie wrote: »

I'm in no way an expert, but would it not be relatively cheap and painless to fence the garden with chicken wire and some posts? That's what we did with our jrt, we have about 4 layers of chicken wire around the garden and it holds him in. Also with the stairs, are you cleaning it with biological detergent? It breaks down the smell better

Yes to the detergent, I think we might need something stronger as it is carpet. The garden is very large, we were looking into chicken wire and posts for after Xmas, as we dont have the money right now, but shadow has chewed through chicken wire at my mums house without issue, and id be worried of the same happening. Theres a dog in the next garden down and two gardens over that are outside 24.7 and hea very reactive to them

pampootie

Ah OK. That sounds a bit trickier. My dog had a bout of colitis recently and was pooing on our landing, I cleaned it with that vanish carpet spray and he hasn't done it since. I don't know if he'd have stopped anyway once he got better but might be worth a try?

ShaShaBear

pampootie wrote: »

Ah OK. That sounds a bit trickier. My dog had a bout of colitis recently and was pooing on our landing, I cleaned it with that vanish carpet spray and he hasn't done it since. I don't know if he'd have stopped anyway once he got better but might be worth a try?

Ill try anything at this point! He knows he shouldnt go in the house, his reaction when he does it is obvious. But we never give out, theres an occasional exasperated "Shadow!" on nights like tonight where he clearly didnt finish pooping outside despite looking to go out in the first place. The amount he did inside after being out was quite big, even though he more than seemed to empty himself earlier.
He also wont go when hes on a walk. Ive actually had instances where he drops trough in the house seconds after we get in from an hour long walk. I do literally have to drag him running to the back door to finish outside and when we get there he has no interest in going (ive waited up to half an hour sometimes) and will do the rest in the kitchen when im not looking. The peeing in the house is very, very rare though.

Inexile

could you erect a zip wire and use a harness on him. I not in favour of tethering at all but perhaps using a zip wire while you are there and for only a few minutes might be useful.

Of course that's a way of managing the issue rather than dealing with the underlying cause. Back to treats when he poops and wees outside?

ShaShaBear

Inexile wrote: »

could you erect a zip wire and use a harness on him. I not in favour of tethering at all but perhaps using a zip wire while you are there and for only a few minutes might be useful.

Of course that's a way of managing the issue rather than dealing with the underlying cause. Back to treats when he poops and wees outside?

We tried that too. He managed to snap it chasing after a cat. It would really need to be fencing outside, and possibly even the kind that blocks his vision. Im hoping that with high value treats I can retrain him except using the lead instead of free running like he is used to.
Just need to figure out what is high value and still healthy for him, and how soon after a meal I should be taking him out as an adult.

angeldaisy

Our dog snapped the zip wire too, so we anchored a bolt into concrete and attached a heavyish chain. She wont poop on the lead and our garden currently has a gap in the fencing. So she's attached to this when she needs to go out. Trust me we tried everything else - she's a total escape artist!!

ShaShaBear

angeldaisy wrote: »

Our dog snapped the zip wire too, so we anchored a bolt into concrete and attached a heavyish chain. She wont poop on the lead and our garden currently has a gap in the fencing. So she's attached to this when she needs to go out. Trust me we tried everything else - she's a total escape artist!!

I dont think a chain would help much either, he doesnt like to go on the lead at all, so a chain is going to feel much the same

angeldaisy

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I dont think a chain would help much either, he doesnt like to go on the lead at all, so a chain is going to feel much the same

We found it was less the lead and more that she didn't like being 'watched' when she did her business;)

ShaShaBear

angeldaisy wrote: »

We found it was less the lead and more that she didn't like being 'watched' when she did her business;)

Yeah we thought that with Shadow, we had one of those spring cables that you twist into the ground. We'd put him on it and he would just lie down and stay down until you took him off it :rolleyes:
We tried an extendable lead then, but when you weren't looking he'd chew through it and make a run for it!
I have some chopped cooked sausages in the fridge, and I just took him out an hour after his feed. He pooped within 5 minutes, and I gave him two pieces and gave him lots of praise and cuddles, but I know it wasn't close to what he needs to do. Will try again in another hour and hopefully the sausages will motivate him to go by the end of the week

borderlinemeath

Has he ever gone on walks? He's always on the lead isn't he, because he'll react to other dogs? He probably associates the lead with going out and perhaps having to take an aggressive stance so maybe 'tenses up' in the toilet department. A lot of dogs I know won't go when they're stressed. With visiting dogs here I always take it as a good sign when they've dropped their first log in the garden! Shadow seems to want to go when he gets back in and relaxes himself with the knowledge that he's home safe.

It seems like the only way is to somehow fence it in, you say it's not fully secure, how much of it is needed? Is there any structure there at all?

Millem

ShaShaBear wrote: »

So, we moved about 6 months ago into a new house that doesnt quite have an enclosed garden. It would be quite steep financially to fence it, and we dont expect to be here by next Xmas. We took to taking him out on the lead, and it has been a disaster that has gone from bad to worse.

Just took him out this evening and he pooped and peed, but when heading upstairs to bed he dropped right on the stairs and started pooing again. This is a regular occurence, on the same stair. Weve tried scrubbing it with detergent. He ran downstairs, pooped again in the kitchen and weed as well, barely any since he had just been out. Hes been to the vet for this twice now and he says he is healthy and well for his age.

At 9 I know he cannot hold it. But it seems as though he is only relieving himself outside and finishing inside in specific spots when he can. He does not do this in my mothers, and she has a fenced garden, so I assume its that he would rather not go on the lead.

I guess im looking for advice now that I have a large chunk of time off for Xmas how to completely remove his scent from his chosen spots, and how best to go about retraining him using the lead. How long after feeding should an adult dog want to go out? Would an extendable lead help?

When one of my dogs is upset is poos in house. When we were moving house about 5 years ago I would let make sure she had gone outside then fill the car up and head over to new house, when I arrived back there was a poo in the place where I had taken something. I mentioned it to vet and he said it was anxiety. It completely stopped after we had moved in after a few days. It has happened a couple of times after this but for different reasons eg like if I am worried or stressed about something she will pick up on it. Now I know that sounds crazy but honestly it is true. They are just so intuitive. I would try and get some sort of enclosure up for your dog to toilet in. What about one of those pens? I would look on adverts or done deal and see could you even get one or fencing second hand? As for cleaning make sure it is a bio detergent I also use Milton, but the absolute best thing is renting a carpet cleaning machine especially if there is pee. From my experience it is the only thing really to 100% do the trick. If there has been a good few accidents

ShaShaBear

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Has he ever gone on walks? He's always on the lead isn't he, because he'll react to other dogs? He probably associates the lead with going out and perhaps having to take an aggressive stance so maybe 'tenses up' in the toilet department. A lot of dogs I know won't go when they're stressed. With visiting dogs here I always take it as a good sign when they've dropped their first log in the garden! Shadow seems to want to go when he gets back in and relaxes himself with the knowledge that he's home safe.

It seems like the only way is to somehow fence it in, you say it's not fully secure, how much of it is needed? Is there any structure there at all?

There is fencing the whole way around the garden, but its about three feet high and there is a bullmastiff two doors down that is outside 24/7 and Shadow is just desperate to have a go at him. There are a few 6ft panels on one side, but they're completely rotted and broken - there's a huge hole in the bottom. We priced good fencing, and we're looking between 100 and 200 quid to fence it in.
You're probably right though, he is never allowed outside without a lead. People think he is a right numpty and very adorable in the house and around people and kids, but I watched him almost kill a Westie once and luckily the owner knows Shadow very well and simply lifted his dog out of the way without mention of further action.
As a result, if he hears another dog barking when outside, he can completely "pinch off" and stop what he is doing altogether. And since there are two high energy dogs close by that are not walked or taken inside, you can imagine there is quite a bit of barking!
We're expecting to move next Summer/Autumn when I have the baby, and we'll be ensuring the garden is fenced before we go. Obviously if lead training doesn't work we will have to fence it, unless I can somehow train him to poop in a giant litter box :rolleyes:

Edited to add: I wonder if I could actually train him to use a giant litter box...

ShaShaBear

Millem wrote: »

When one of my dogs is upset is poos in house. When we were moving house about 5 years ago I would let make sure she had gone outside then fill the car up and head over to new house, when I arrived back there was a poo in the place where I had taken something. I mentioned it to vet and he said it was anxiety. It completely stopped after we had moved in after a few days. It has happened a couple of times after this but for different reasons eg like if I am worried or stressed about something she will pick up on it. Now I know that sounds crazy but honestly it is true. They are just so intuitive. I would try and get some sort of enclosure up for your dog to toilet in. What about one of those pens? I would look on adverts or done deal and see could you even get one or fencing second hand? As for cleaning make sure it is a bio detergent I also use Milton, but the absolute best thing is renting a carpet cleaning machine especially if there is pee. From my experience it is the only thing really to 100% do the trick. If there has been a good few accidents

Pee in the house is extremely rare, and can usually be put down to negligence on our part. He never pees in the house unless he is bursting. I struggle to get up in the mornings, very tired this trimester, and if I don't chase him down the stairs there can be an accident. He's never peed upstairs though, only pooped. Going to bleach the floors now and go over them with detergent and take him out again. With more sausage

borderlinemeath

ShaShaBear wrote: »

There is fencing the whole way around the garden, but its about three feet high and there is a bullmastiff two doors down that is outside 24/7 and Shadow is just desperate to have a go at him. There are a few 6ft panels on one side, but they're completely rotted and broken - there's a huge hole in the bottom. We priced good fencing, and we're looking between 100 and 200 quid to fence it in.
You're probably right though, he is never allowed outside without a lead. People think he is a right numpty and very adorable in the house and around people and kids, but I watched him almost kill a Westie once and luckily the owner knows Shadow very well and simply lifted his dog out of the way without mention of further action.
As a result, if he hears another dog barking when outside, he can completely "pinch off" and stop what he is doing altogether. And since there are two high energy dogs close by that are not walked or taken inside, you can imagine there is quite a bit of barking!
We're expecting to move next Summer/Autumn when I have the baby, and we'll be ensuring the garden is fenced before we go. Obviously if lead training doesn't work we will have to fence it, unless I can somehow train him to poop in a giant litter box :rolleyes:

Edited to add: I wonder if I could actually train him to use a giant litter box...

The noise and proximity of the other dogs would probably be enough to be putting him off unless he's absolutely bursting, god love him.

It should be easy enough, does he have a command or a word? You could get something like this:

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=479&pf_id=62187

Millem

ShaShaBear wrote: »

There is fencing the whole way around the garden, but its about three feet high and there is a bullmastiff two doors down that is outside 24/7 and Shadow is just desperate to have a go at him. There are a few 6ft panels on one side, but they're completely rotted and broken - there's a huge hole in the bottom. We priced good fencing, and we're looking between 100 and 200 quid to fence it in.
You're probably right though, he is never allowed outside without a lead. People think he is a right numpty and very adorable in the house and around people and kids, but I watched him almost kill a Westie once and luckily the owner knows Shadow very well and simply lifted his dog out of the way without mention of further action.
As a result, if he hears another dog barking when outside, he can completely "pinch off" and stop what he is doing altogether. And since there are two high energy dogs close by that are not walked or taken inside, you can imagine there is quite a bit of barking!
We're expecting to move next Summer/Autumn when I have the baby, and we'll be ensuring the garden is fenced before we go. Obviously if lead training doesn't work we will have to fence it, unless I can somehow train him to poop in a giant litter box :rolleyes:

Would landlord pay? Or even go halves? Or even next door neighbours?
I know you probably have 101 other things to spend the money on especially with the baby on the way but I would happily pay it myself as I am sure the toilet problem is a stress you don't need plus who knows maybe you might end up staying another year?

ShaShaBear

Millem wrote: »

Would landlord pay? Or even go halves? Or even next door neighbours?
I know you probably have 101 other things to spend the money on especially with the baby on the way but I would happily pay it myself as I am sure the toilet problem is a stress you don't need plus who knows maybe you might end up staying another year?

There are a few other problems with the house that make it unsuitable for a baby so we will definitely be going. Neighbour one side is an alcoholic (and currently "away" on holidays) and the other side is a foreign family who refused when we asked them about fencing when we moved. Landlord is also a no-go. He wouldn't even chip in towards the paint for our living room, which was luminous pink and extremely chipped and covered in children's scribbles and handprints from previous tenants.

Right now its not about prioritising money, if I got the money handed to me now I would fence it in a heartbeat, it would save Shadow so much stress, but we just don't have it. My partner's working 14-17 hour shifts 6 days a week at the minute, so it would also be up to me to fence it in, as we definitely couldn't afford to get someone to do it. Cheapest option seems to be posts and chicken wire tall enough for him not to be able to jump and to supervise him outside so he doesn't chew his way through.

ShaShaBear

borderlinemeath wrote: »

The noise and proximity of the other dogs would probably be enough to be putting him off unless he's absolutely bursting, god love him.

It should be easy enough, does he have a command or a word? You could get something like this:

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=479&pf_id=62187

He does actually, he responds very well to "out you go". We had to work on that in our last house where we built a small run out of pallets from OH's work. Have no way of transporting pallets now so can't really do that again. But hopefully with me being in the house every day for the next 6 weeks we can at least get him more used to going outside until we figure out how to fence it in!

ShaShaBear

Just had our second success of the day with treats. It's still very obvious he is holding some in and just aiming to take the pressure off, but hopefully over the course of the day I can get him to empty himself.

Pretzill

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Just had our second success of the day with treats. It's still very obvious he is holding some in and just aiming to take the pressure off, but hopefully over the course of the day I can get him to empty himself.

The treats help immensely we always give the dogs a treat when they go out at night to do their business, now our front garden and side opens to a very quiet road but we are lucky to have a very large (acres) at our back - the dogs never go to the front but always to the back and they seem to like to find their own private little spot - I don't leash them for their evening loos - now I noticed with new pup (who at 14 weeks doesn't poop inside unless we miss the signs now!) if he has to go as pups often do and we don't cop it, he'll try to go somewhere we can't see him in the house - somewhere he's not being bothered, so we just have to watch for those signs.

I don't think dogs like going on lead - and maybe Shadow is being bothered by noise of other dogs etc, the other thing maybe, just maybe he needs to see a vet, if he's losing control all of a sudden -

At 9 years old I'd expect him to go fairly regularly, morning and evening, depending on last meal times etc; Someone else mentioned a longer lead so he can have a bit of distance from whoever is holding him. And washing powder with a bit of vanish helps keep the scent down if he goes inside - (although the vanish can bleach the carpet a bit) Another thing if you don't think he's finished when he comes in - could you keep him in one room like the kitchen for about a half an hour after - if he does go it may be easier to clean up if he goes in the same spot - Other than that I can only sympathise as I'm just at the tail end (pardon the pun) of house training and it's not easy! My elderly girl started pooping in the house overnight a few times but she was 14 at the time -

DBB

Just to throw it out there, how would it work if you were to attach a light rope to a harness, and have him wear this rig around the house for a few days, so that there's nothing "different" about what he's wearing when he goes outside?
Perhaps a shortish light rope that you could attach a longer line to as he goes out?

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

Just to throw it out there, how would it work if you were to attach a light rope to a harness, and have him wear this rig around the house for a few days, so that there's nothing "different" about what he's wearing when he goes outside?
Perhaps a shortish light rope that you could attach a longer line to as he goes out?

Quite possibly this could work! It's something I couldn't risk before because he was on his own while I was in college and partner was in work! Definitely will see about getting something like this!
We've had a good day so far, he's pooped three times outside, none inside. But at the same time, I know if I let him out of my sight he would do a dump to rival a horse. He's just relieving himself outside, looking for the sausage meat (which I am doing my best to disguise) and then heading back in. Although it's better than doing it all in the house!

Millem

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Quite possibly this could work! It's something I couldn't risk before because he was on his own while I was in college and partner was in work! Definitely will see about getting something like this!
We've had a good day so far, he's pooped three times outside, none inside. But at the same time, I know if I let him out of my sight he would do a dump to rival a horse. He's just relieving himself outside, looking for the sausage meat (which I am doing my best to disguise) and then heading back in. Although it's better than doing it all in the house!

Shashabear how many poos a day would he normally do? My dogs only poo twice a day! Once after each meal!

ShaShaBear

Millem wrote: »

Shashabear how many poos a day would he normally do? My dogs only poo twice a day! Once after each meal!

If he was in my mums and had free run outside he would do two or three max. Here he could go four or five times as hes holding it and only doing half of what he needs to.