When is a man too fit?

b_mac

daRobot wrote: »

And that's totally obtainable without injecting dbol too, thankfully.

Injecting Dbol!? Hahahaha... You'll have to tell me where and who invented that. Its an oral used to kick start an injectable cycle.

Or so I'm told.

YFlyer

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea pro cyclists are scarily fit aerobically. Even before the "help". In converting oxygen to power they're about the top tier along with cross country skiers. The Tour de France alone makes a marathon look lazy.

Marathon running is completely different due to the constant leg impact with the ground. The leg muscles, tendons and ligaments would need time to heal before the athlete could race at a similar high intensity again.

Lance Armstrong running the ING marathon the 1st time only managed 2:59 and stated 'the race was extremely difficult compared to the Tour de France.'

mufcboy1999

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Not true at all. There are plenty of people that have bodies similar to that who are natural.

Dominic Munnelly who's a personal trainer is just one off the top of my head.

Facebook page is here

Very impressive physique and fair play to him but that's not quite the physique I'm talking about.

Can I ask what kind of training does Dominic do ?

Stench Blossoms

Crossfit.

Wibbs

Daveysil15 wrote: »

And in some cases photoshopped too. It's not just women that are airbrushed and made to look slimmer. I remember seen a documentary where the retouchers made a fitness models shoulders wider and his waist smaller. And he was already is excellent shape.

Body make up too. Even before all the fashion tricks of the trade/deception, unless a guy had seriously good genetics and kept a serious eye on his environment(food/exercise) and was kicking the right hormones(so basically under say 35 and/or adding some into the mix) it would be very difficult to sustain anything like the levels you'd see in magazines for very long.

I'd say - and I might get slated for this - harder to sustain than what female models have to generally do. Yes they have the genetics for tall and narrow frames, but sustaining the look would mostly be down to serious calorie deficit compared to normal*. EG I'm skinny and long limbed for a bloke. A mate of mine would have the same basic frame as me, but he's also well muscled. Wiry as it were, six pack and the like. If we were an ad in a man's mag I'd be the before shot in the scrawny to brawny sales pitch. For him to look like me, he'd basically have to eat, or not, like me. For me to look like him, I'd have to eat much more with a better balance and put serious work in with weights like he does.

Physiques like that are hard to achieve and sustain in the modern world environment anyway. If you look at blokes living neolithic "stone age" cultures, a fair number of them have well impressive physiques. And keep them for longer as they age too. They've generally better hair and teeth too and bone densities well above average office worker who puts in three nights a week in the gym. The crossfit guys and gals are onto something on that score IMHO. Though personally my theory would add in that in the western world we're buggered on one score, your neolithic guys and gals are rocking far lower levels of cortisol as a near given(Low levels of insulin and cortisol = long, healthy life. Cholesterol etc just follow on from those two.). They live stressful, sometimes very emotionally stressful lives, however their stress is more acute, it comes in peaks, the community and culture soaks up the most of it and then they go back to baseline. In modern western life stress is a near constant, a chronic presence. A tinnitus of the soul. A background "noise" we get inured to. To the degree that few of us experience daily and actual calm in ourselves(unless blessed with a mind that deals with it better). Even when we forget diabetes and heart disease, rates of depression, anxiety and suicide spectrum illnesses are very low in such cultures.





* while obviously peoples metabolic rates can vary and obviously medical conditions can cause weight gain or loss(I'd bet the farm that clinically it's more the latter in %), the "heavy people get that way by eating more" idea(oft thinly veiled insult) goes for the reverse too. Runway models that claim they chow down on burgers and chinner dinners daily are 99% of the time lying for the sake of PR. Maybe "daily" means once a week and champers and ciggies the rest of the time.

kumate_champ07

YFlyer wrote: »

Marathon running is completely different due to the constant leg impact with the ground. The leg muscles, tendons and ligaments would need time to heal before the athlete could race at a similar high intensity again.

Lance Armstrong running the ING marathon the 1st time only managed 2:59 and stated 'the race was extremely difficult compared to the Tour de France.'

bull****, TDF is much tougher

Wibbs

YFlyer wrote: »

Lance Armstrong running the ING marathon the 1st time only managed 2:59 and stated 'the race was extremely difficult compared to the Tour de France.'

Yes the impact nature of the sport is a biggie, no argument there, but IMHO more likely said for effect and PR TBH. He's not exactly a stranger to winning Ironman triathlons after all. Though to be fair to you a very good biker has the best opportunity to gain time over the other disciplines in a triathlon.

YFlyer

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

bull****, TDF is much tougher

Well that is what he said.

Can't see a 2:04 marathon runner racing at 95% capacity 28 days in a row.

kumate_champ07

guys with ultra defined abs in photos, besides the air brush and physical makeup also have dieted specifically for the photoshoot. its not a natural 24/7 look

they also suck in their gut, Kirk Douglas and alot of his generation had to hold in their gut during shooting, to have a specific masculine look. they didnt diet or exercise the same as these days, some were overweight in real life

kumate_champ07

YFlyer wrote: »

Well that is what he said.

Can't see a 2:04 marathon runner racing at 95% capacity 28 days in a row.

ok, I suppose if it was Lance Armstrong who said it, it must be true

YFlyer

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes the impact nature of the sport is a biggie, no argument there, but IMHO more likely said for effect and PR TBH. He's not exactly a stranger to winning Ironman triathlons after all. Though to be fair to you a very good biker has the best opportunity to gain time over the other disciplines in a triathlon.

Yes that is true. A brillant swimmer would gain very little in an Iron man.

Wibbs

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

bull****, TDF is much tougher

Yep and it's but one of a long list of near daily races they ride in a season. Year after year. Never mind the big names, the domestiques are scarily fit aerobically.

YFlyer

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

ok, I suppose if it was Lance Armstrong who said it, it must be true

Touche

Aidric

Wibbs wrote: »

EG I'm skinny and long limbed for a bloke. A mate of mine would have the same basic frame as me, but he's also well muscled. Wiry as it were, six pack and the like. If we were an ad in a man's mag I'd be the before shot in the scrawny to brawny sales pitch. For him to look like me, he'd basically have to eat, or not, like me. For me to look like him, I'd have to eat much more with a better balance and put serious work in with weights like he does.

Good analysis as usual. Wiry is a description I've always struggled with. Always seemed to me to be a less forward way of describing someone as skinny.

Wibbs wrote: »

They live stressful, sometimes very emotionally stressful lives, however their stress is more acute, it comes in peaks, the community and culture soaks up the most of it and then they go back to baseline. In modern western life stress is a near constant, a chronic presence. A tinnitus of the soul. A background "noise" we get inured to. To the degree that few of us experience daily and actual calm in ourselves(unless blessed with a mind that deals with it better). Even when we forget diabetes and heart disease, rates of depression, anxiety and suicide spectrum illnesses are very low in such cultures.

Stress and anxiety will certainly keep the weight off.

Wibbs

YFlyer wrote: »

Yes that is true. A brillant swimmer would gain very little in an Iron man.

Yea the other disciplines are fairly hampered, the swimmers most of all. If you took our own Sean Kelly at his peak, roped him to the back of a rowboat for the swimming section, once you popped him on the bike the rest of the field would be reeled in in short order(monster time trialler that he was). He could damn near walk the marathon section and still best the swimmers who started out.

Wibbs

Aidric wrote: »

Good analysis as usual.

Paypal sent...

Wiry is a description I've always struggled with. Always seemed to me to be a less forward way of describing someone as skinny.

I'd see it as someone well toned and strong myself. Ultimate example of wiry for me would be Bruce Lee. Quite slight in frame, not bulky, but fcuk me was he ripped and strong.

Stress and anxiety will certainly keep the weight off.

Yea, it really screws with so many other hormonal systems in the body. Further to my above ravings... A pic from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bathurst_Island_men.jpg

Native Aussie blokes* in the 1930's. The dude in the middle is no spring chicken by any stretch. Grey haired elder dude and he has a physique few of us in the west would have at 20, never mind 50. No mirrors, no gyms, no creatine, no roids. The same bloke is likely looking at me and what passes for my physique from the dreamtime with uncontrolled tears of laughter and derision. The oul bastard. *shakes fist(weakly)*






*I personally hate the term "aborigine". It's a generic term for "natives" and a real misnomer for such an amazing set of peoples and cultures.

mufcboy1999

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

Crossfit.

Even more impressive if he can maintain that much muscle mass naturally by doing an what is an endurance sport in crossfit.

YFlyer

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea the other disciplines are fairly hampered, the swimmers most of all. If you took our own Sean Kelly at his peak, roped him to the back of a rowboat for the swimming section, once you popped him on the bike the rest of the field would be reeled in in short order(monster time trialler that he was). He could damn near walk the marathon section and still best the swimmers who started out.

Reading on Wikipedia, US Navy Commander John Collins said that with his high VO2 max (highest recorded then), that Eddie Merckx would be the 'most fit than anybody else.' Him suggesting that having a Triathlon with the three existing events already on the Kailua Kona island should be raced together may have benefit the cyclist.

Forgive me I'm trying to type this with a feed of Argentinian Malbec.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon

Duck's hoop

Nobody's mentioned rowers. Arguably the toughest and fittest of all the crazy fit nuts.

Rowers are the one group that other Olympic competitors look at and wonder why they'd want to do it.

A senior club level orsman might train 15 hours pw for an event topping out at 7 minutes.

Da Za

Powerlifters are physical specimens

Duck's hoop

Da Za wrote: »

Powerlifters are physical specimens

Massive big strong fcukers anyway.


But what's name of that lad from Limerick, older chap, not as massive as some but lifts 110 times his BW?

Shout Dust

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Agreed , but as quick as these juicers gain muscle they end up losing it just as fast when they have to come off the gear so ladies the lesson here is to always go for a natural man with real muscle we're buff all year round and we got the balls to back it up .

It takes a lot longer to lose muscle than build it

TimeToShine

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Massive big strong fcukers anyway.


But what's name of that lad from Limerick, older chap, not as massive as some but lifts 110 times his BW?

110 times??

abff

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Massive big strong fcukers anyway.


But what's name of that lad from Limerick, older chap, not as massive as some but lifts 110 times his BW?

Mighty Mouse?

Duck's hoop

TimeToShine wrote: »

110 times??

I should've said a million. Slightly tongue in cheek.

I mean he can lift quite a lot for his size. I'm quite sure it's more than 2.5 but less than 110.

Shout Dust

Shout Dust wrote: »

It takes a lot longer to lose muscle than build it

Is that a joke? muscle mass takes a certain amount of food to maintain, it would disappear very quickly without proper nutrition and some training.

Da Za

Yup muscle can take an awfully long time to build but through various reasons, ie. not training, not eating correctly, supplementation etc muscle mass along with weight can decrease significantly quicker than the period it took to gain it.

But none if this happens over night

Wibbs

YFlyer wrote: »

Forgive me I'm trying to type this with a feed of Argentinian Malbec.

Blood brothers Sir, though for me it's a passable Merlot.

daRobot

b_mac wrote: »

Injecting Dbol!? Hahahaha... You'll have to tell me where and who invented that. Its an oral used to kick start an injectable cycle.

Or so I'm told.

It's exclusively delivered orally, is it?

You might want to have an ole' google for Reforvit-B so.

Oregano_State

dodderangler wrote: »

This dude is ridiculously fit. Has a decent workout as well. But it's hard.
Was gonna try it last year but got lazy. Swear il try it this year.
Anyway this is physically the fittest man alive
http://youtu.be/ubCJx23Y4S4

Don't believe the hype.

I'd have to say the closest thing to what you're describing would be the World/Olympic decathlon champion, Ashton Eaton. The dude is a freak.

corkgsxr

When he has trouble shampooing.

CM24

http://media.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BoweTommy-beach.jpg Tommy Bowe ticks all the boxes! Speed, strength, endurance, skills and aesthetics. Comes across as a bit of craic also.

Daveysil15

CM24 wrote: »

http://media.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/BoweTommy-beach.jpg Tommy Bowe ticks all the boxes! Speed, strength, endurance, skills and aesthetics. Comes across as a bit of craic also.

The women in that photo aint bad either.

GreeBo

He was probably injured soon after that photo though...

FizzleSticks

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YFlyer

Oregano_State wrote: »

Don't believe the hype.

I'd have to say the closest thing to what you're describing would be the World/Olympic decathlon champion, Ashton Eaton. The dude is a freak.

Eaton has power Froning strength.

Itwasntme.

FizzleSticks wrote: »

Oh yah someone replied to me on this by saying well that is an extreme example of fitness.

Sure isn't that the whole point of the thread what is too fit.

For me being too fit, fat or skinny is pretty extreme when it comes to being a barrier to me liking someone, like really extreme. I feel like the way a guys body is really isn't a big deal to me or a deal breaker but not so much the case with a lot of men are they just pickier when it comes to their partners body or am I just oblivious :P

Does that mean that you can be physically attracted to any body type? If that's the case, then you're lucky.

I've occasionally fallen for guys I wasn't initially physically attracted to but I've learned along the way that I can't trick myself into wanting someone because I think they are nice people. Physical attraction is not the be all and end all by all means but that raw chemistry needs to be there as well. And for me raw chemistry depends on not just how nice I think a guy is but also how I react to him physically and I have definitely have a type.

SV

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Nobody's mentioned rowers. Arguably the toughest and fittest of all the crazy fit nuts.

Rowers are the one group that other Olympic competitors look at and wonder why they'd want to do it.

A senior club level orsman might train 15 hours pw for an event topping out at 7 minutes.

Used to do rowing, extremely tough sport and the lads who win most things are incredibly fit.

This quote springs to mind


"Marathon runners talk about hitting 'the wall' at the twenty-third mile of the race. What rowers confront isn't a wall; it's a hole - an abyss of pain, which opens up in the second minute of the race. Large needles are being driven into your thigh muscles, while your forearms seem to be splitting. Then the pain becomes confused and disorganized, not like the windedness of the runner or the leg burn of the biker but an all-over, savage unpleasantness. As you pass the five-hundred-meter mark, with three-quarters of the race still to row, you realize with dread that you are not going to make it to the finish, but at the same time the idea of letting your teammates down by not rowing your hardest is unthinkable...Therefore, you are going to die. Welcome to this life." -- Ashleigh Teitel

Itwasntme.

SV wrote: »

Used to do rowing, extremely tough sport and the lads who win most things are incredibly fit.

This quote springs to mind


"Marathon runners talk about hitting 'the wall' at the twenty-third mile of the race. What rowers confront isn't a wall; it's a hole - an abyss of pain, which opens up in the second minute of the race. Large needles are being driven into your thigh muscles, while your forearms seem to be splitting. Then the pain becomes confused and disorganized, not like the windedness of the runner or the leg burn of the biker but an all-over, savage unpleasantness. As you pass the five-hundred-meter mark, with three-quarters of the race still to row, you realize with dread that you are not going to make it to the finish, but at the same time the idea of letting your teammates down by not rowing your hardest is unthinkable...Therefore, you are going to die. Welcome to this life." -- Ashleigh Teitel

Wow, that was so beautifully articulated, I felt all the needles, splitting muscle and the fear of death by success!

SV

Itwasntme. wrote: »

Wow, that was so beautifully articulated, I felt all the needles, splitting muscle and the fear of death by success!

It's pretty accurate, the indoor rowing champs are particularly good for showing it as you're out on your own and the option of quitting is there, but you can't/won't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4OflmzVdOI

Pretty good video which you get to see the pain that they go through, these guys are(were) top class olympic gold medal winners.

FizzleSticks

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cantdecide

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

IME, men aren't as picky as we're led to believe. Everyone's dream love interest is hot in most or ever way, that's the way it's always been and probably ever will but in real terms, I've seen many of my friends stepping out with all kinds of girls and be glad to do so. Extremes are always going to be controversial of course.

Itwasntme. wrote: »

I've occasionally fallen for guys I wasn't initially physically attracted to but I've learned along the way that I can't trick myself into wanting someone because I think they are nice people. Physical attraction is not the be all and end all by all means but that raw chemistry needs to be there as well. And for me raw chemistry depends on not just how nice I think a guy is but also how I react to him physically and I have definitely have a type.

I think it's unfortunate. I consider myself lucky to not have a 'type' and I love that I that feeling like a kid in a candy shop when it comes to the opposite sex. Blonds, redheads, long hair, short hair, skinny, curvy, short, tall- it's all good. Physical attraction is a prerequisite for most people but the shorter the text in front of that box for ticking, the easier your life will be. The hottest body or the prettiest face in the world goes from ten to zero if she's mean or shallow.

Wibbs

cantdecide wrote: »

IME, men aren't as picky as we're led to believe. Everyone's dream love interest is hot in most or ever way, that's the way it's always been and probably ever will but in real terms, I've seen many of my friends stepping out with all kinds of girls and be glad to do so. Extremes are always going to be controversial of course.

Yea, going by similar experiences I'd agree with that CD.

I think it's unfortunate. I consider myself lucky to not have a 'type' and I love that I that feeling like a kid in a candy shop when it comes to the opposite sex.

Funny I used to think I didn't have a physical type and would claim this loudly, but looking back all the longtermers/luuurves were of a very similar body shape. On the other hand their personalities were very wide in range.

The hottest body or the prettiest face in the world goes from ten to zero if she's mean or shallow.

Very true. "Hot" only goes so far and it's a surprising short distance too. Personality, brains, fun, emotionally objective, lack of being a pain in the arse etc are where it's at.

Itwasntme.

cantdecide wrote: »

IME, men aren't as picky as we're led to believe.Everyone's dream love interest is hot in most or ever way, that's the way it's always been and probably ever will but in real terms, I've seen many of my friends stepping out with all kinds of girls and be glad to do so. Extremes are always going to be controversial of course.



I think it's unfortunate. I consider myself lucky to not have a 'type' and I love that I that feeling like a kid in a candy shop when it comes to the opposite sex. Blonds, redheads, long hair, short hair, skinny, curvy, short, tall- it's all good. Physical attraction is a prerequisite for most people but the shorter the text in front of that box for ticking, the easier your life will be. The hottest body or the prettiest face in the world goes from ten to zero if she's mean or shallow.

EDIT: This is incredibly OT.

You're lucky you don't have a type. What does that mean exactly? What does attraction entail for you? Is it the same as Fizzle? I have a hard time wrapping my head around it.

You could drop me in a sea of blond male models and my pulse would remain steady but put me in front of a line up of regular people with redheads or very dark skinned black men and I am instantly aware of my surroundings. It's just how I am wired. Of course, if the person is mean or shallow, then it doesn't matter how attractive I thought he was initially. This doesn't mean I could never be attracted to blonds or light skinned black men but the chances are very, very slim.

It definitely really narrows down my options but I would rather be single than date someone I thought of as being really lovely but didn't fancy in that way. I've done it before - in fact, I convinced myself I liked him in that way because I was so emotionally attached to him. In the end, I wasted both my time and his but I came away with a valuable lesson. You can't wish attraction into existence. Of course it would be lovely if I could date the lovely guy who is also my friend but if thoughts of my friend don't make me want to go stand in the naughty corner, then he is going to remain just that, my friend.

Da Za

The face is the first thing that'll obviously attract me before evening knowing the person.

Then personality, completely honestly, that's the most attractive thing next to none.

I do love Katy Perry though lol

FizzleSticks

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It wasn't me!

I've spent some time thinking about what my type might be. In terms of a romantic history, it's pretty broad, from light to dark hair, very thin and athletic to busty, broad hips, curvy, short to tall. If I were to find a common characteristic it would probably be enthusiasm for good health. That might be exercise, diet, outdoor life or whatever, but they all had good outlooks, wanted to go places, do things, see things, to be involved and to live well. I like exercise and good healthy food in moderation myself (the last few days aside - oof!) and I like to meet people with whom I might share a common drive. That's pretty cool. I've never met anyone I thought was too fit. Now, for me, fitness means capability to do whatever they want. Obviously certain physiques are going to suit different things (the powerlifter/marathon runner comparison for example) but if they're fit for their purposes, that's awesome. If they're fit for a purpose I share, that's better for me, but the same drive is still attractive.

Daveysil15

I don't really have a type as far as physical characteristics are concerned, but I almost always seem to attract the same type of girl which would be the bigger/curvy type, even though I'm quite slim myself.

I'm the same as Da Za though, in that I'm always attracted to the face first and then the personality. A great body is a bonus but as long as she's not really big or really slim I don't mind.

Wibbs

ASIDE Thinkin more on the steroid stuff referred to earlier in the thread, it occurred to me that the dangers associated with their use in the media don't seem to pan out in reality? Given how many people have used them you'd expect to hear more about illness and even deaths from it. It has been alleged*ahem* that all high level bodybuilders are chugging them and given the size of the results using them in very high doses, yet you don't hear of them dropping like flies. Stallone was caught with human growth hormone and the like a couple of years ago and his physique is not normal for other near 70 year olds, yet he's looking good on it. Other actors, particularly older guys are a tad suspish too.

Then take the pro cyclists. Yes there were examples of those guys dying because the blood doping was turning their blood to sludge(at the time it was amazing how many "headaches" they suffered going by the amount of aspirin they were taking...). Even there it was a small minority of the overall and again these guys were taking big doses and hammering their bodies into near physical failure on a daily basis.

So, it appears like we have a pretty large survey sample of guys taking "additives" to perform better or look better, or age better, with it seems very few of them showing problems. Could this be applied to normal people more who would take smaller doses and improve their lives, especially as they age?

Wibbs

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I don't really have a type as far as physical characteristics are concerned, but I almost always seem to attract the same type of girl which would be the bigger/curvy type, even though I'm quite slim myself.

Could that be a numbers game too D? There would be more curvy women overall compared to skinny or fat women, so unless you were specifically looking for a body type at either end of the scale, you'd on average be meeting/going out with the curvy type?