Full dole recipients to get €10.15 an hour - seen as slave labour

KERSPLAT!

Value Hunter wrote: »

A lot of the problems with Ireland have been brought up here

Example 1 - Hard working employee works 40 hours a week on minimum wage - gets no rent allowance and has to pay for child care

Example 2 - Dole receiver works zero hours, gets rent payed and food/bill money, majority of child costs are covered by the state

There is only one of group in the examples that can survive in that situation and we all know which one it is

Bull****

Gee_G

Value Hunter wrote: »

A lot of the problems with Ireland have been brought up here

Example 1 - Hard working employee works 40 hours a week on minimum wage - gets no rent allowance and has to pay for child care

Example 2 - Dole receiver works zero hours, gets rent payed and food/bill money, majority of child costs are covered by the state

There is only one of group in the examples that can survive in that situation and we all know which one it is

Food/bill money??
Child costs??
I am on sw and these are both news to me!

BillyMitchel

Aren't you a jolly oul St.Nick.

The world would be falling around us and some tool would still be on AH moaning about the dole, single mothers, 3 wheeler buggies, tracksuits, how can they afford the 50 cans of bud they'll drink between today and tomorrow.

Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble John Player Blue

But Joe she even had new shoes on her feet Joe. They were them boots with the spikes on them Joe! Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble What we gonna do Joe? I can't even afford an extra bit of lamb for Christmas lunch Joe. So has to settle for a nice turkey and ham Joe.

Bore off

WildCardDoW

systemicrisk wrote: »

Thats not really the point though. I understand there is something a bit wrong about taking away peoples choice and forcing them to do a particular job for their dole but perhaps if there was a range of jobs that they could choose from ranging from administrative to manual labour. The rate of pay certainly is not slave labour at 10.15 an hour. I would not accept under 25s bein paid less though. At 20 hours per week there would still be plenty of time to search for work as well. Definately would need a good level of choice and proper employment rights.

Done that way it's almost an extension of Job Bridge, but at a Hob Bridge you have to work full time hours, like I said I don't disagree with the idea behind the scheme and your suggestions would certainly improve it, but it's hard to implement a system like this that is fair.

And while there are decent people who would kill to work, there are others who really don't want to, thankfully I view them as the minority, unlike some others.

Jester252

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Because you work your balls off paying these ***** tax so that in the situation when or if i loose my job you get the assistance you paid for.

This would be a decent argument if Ireland has a Spainish type SW not none stop cover SW.

Femme_Fatale

So they get dole plus 20 hours per week of work, for which they are paid €20 and the spindo's angle is to divide the entire sum they receive (benefits plus pay for €20) and divide it by 20 hours. Classy - and really intelligent by that superb publication. Shur in fairness it knew lots of dopes would buy into that angle.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Value Hunter wrote: »

Surprised I haven't seen any other threads on this

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dole-recipients-to-get-extra-20-a-week-for-20-hours-of-council-work-29863105.html

€10.15 an hour! - I know plenty who would take that with both hands!

Really sums up peoples attitudes when its seen as slave labour - as per the comments under the article

Even for under 25s - €123 a week for 20 hours work, I don't think €6.15 an hour is exactly slave labour.

Minimum wage in america is $8 which is roughly €5.85

Not to mention all the other benefits given when on social welfare - i.e rent allowance - getting your rent payed even though you don't work

I'm all for helping those in need, but paying for EVERYTHING someone needs, and allowing them not to work for it



Well whats the point in working???

You sure you linked to the right story? No mention of 10.15 an hour anywhere in that story...?

Soft Falling Rain

Value Hunter wrote: »

Surprised I haven't seen any other threads on this

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dole-recipients-to-get-extra-20-a-week-for-20-hours-of-council-work-29863105.html

€10.15 an hour! - I know plenty who would take that with both hands!

Really sums up peoples attitudes when its seen as slave labour - as per the comments under the article

Even for under 25s - €123 a week for 20 hours work, I don't think €6.15 an hour is exactly slave labour.

Minimum wage in america is $8 which is roughly €5.85

Not to mention all the other benefits given when on social welfare - i.e rent allowance - getting your rent payed even though you don't work

I'm all for helping those in need, but paying for EVERYTHING someone needs, and allowing them not to work for it



Well whats the point in working???

You really can't win if you're on welfare.

Being on welfare = you're a bum making no effort.

Being on welfare & willingly partaking in initiatives like this = you're still a bum who is getting "overpaid".

Bare in mind that an extra 20 a week really isn't earth shattering, given they'll probably end up spending more than that getting to and from the placement so to speak.

I'm employed btw.

0ph0rce0

Value Hunter wrote: »

That thought process just proves my point. How someone can think working 20 hours a week for a minimum of €208 works out at €1 an hour is beyond me

What don't you get? You pay tax for these reasons

If you loose your job you get assistance, why? because you paid for it.

If i was on the dole and was told to work 20hrs for an extra 20 quid (1 euro per hour) i'd tell them to **** off.

I'm entitled to the 188 because I've worked and paid my tax for this reason.

P.Walnuts

Value Hunter wrote: »

That thought process just proves my point. How someone can think working 20 hours a week for a minimum of €208 works out at €1 an hour is beyond me

No, that thought process is logical and is based on what actually happens.

A person is working 20 hours a week and they receive €20, are the numbers to complicated too hard for you to understand? If they didn't do those 20 hours they would still receive €188, so that money has nothing to do with the 20 hours work, rightly or wrongly.

PS I am not saying the dole is too high or people should be expected to contribute something, but please don't twist things to suit your own agenda. Thread title should be changed as it is completely wrong.

COYW

WildCardDoW wrote: »

And while there are decent people who would kill to work, there are others who really don't want to, thankfully I view them as the minority, unlike some others.

Yes but they are a minority that could easily be tackled by cutting their welfare if they refuse to apply for jobs, attend interviews etc. I also think (know) that replacing cash with vouchers who cause these people a huge inconvenience.

0ph0rce0

Also why do we need more people in yellow jackets looking down a hole for 20hrs a week?

SV

Jester252 wrote: »

This is the perfect example of a certian attitude with some people on the dole. Why earn money, when I can get most of it handed to me?

It's a logical point of view. If I got enough to keep me happy as my wages do now and had the option of not working then I'd do the exact same.

degrassinoel

Value Hunter wrote: »

A lot of the problems with Ireland have been brought up here

Example 1 - Hard working employee works 40 hours a week on minimum wage - gets no rent allowance and has to pay for child care

Example 2 - Dole receiver works zero hours, gets rent payed and food/bill money, majority of child costs are covered by the state

There is only one of group in the examples that can survive in that situation and we all know which one it is

Example 2 is wrong, in oh so many ways. The fact that you actually think that's how it works is mind boggling.

In receipt of the dole, you work zero hours but you are looking for work (and need to prove it regularly) you get a supplementary rent allowance (if eligible), you get 1 (not more) allowance that has to cover all your expenses (bills food clothing etc.) the standard being €180-something per week. I'm not certain of child allowances, maybe someone else could explain that to you.

keep in mind that all of that money you're complaining about goes straight back into the economy every week with how it's spent. it's not like you can save very much if anything whilst on the dole either mate.

systemicrisk

WildCardDoW wrote: »

Done that way it's almost an extension of Job Bridge, but at a Hob Bridge you have to work full time hours, like I said I don't disagree with the idea behind the scheme and your suggestions would certainly improve it, but it's hard to implement a system like this that is fair.

And while there are decent people who would kill to work, there are others who really don't want to, thankfully I view them as the minority, unlike some others.

The difference I would see is that its not for private companies therefore its public money paying for jobs that are for public services. The rate of pay is much fairer and private companies cant replace employees with interns. It would be extremely difficult to implement though alll right but might be worth thinkng about and fleshing out the idea a bit more.

Value Hunter

P.Walnuts wrote: »

No, that thought process is logical and is based on what actually happens.

A person is working 20 hours a week and they receive €20, are the numbers to complicated too hard for you to understand? If they didn't do those 20 hoirs they would still receive €188, so that money has nothing to do with the 20 hours work, rightly or wrongly.

PS I am not saying the dole is too high or people should be expected to contribute something, but please don't twist things to suit your own agenda. Thread title should be changed as it is completely wrong.

Wrong

They receive €188 a week if they do nothing

The choice is not do 20 hours or get nothing

I'm arguing against the attitude people have to actually doing a bit of work to recieve €10.15 an hour, you'd swere they were asked to work 60 hours a week for their dole

0ph0rce0

Value Hunter wrote: »

Wrong

They receive €188 a week if they do nothing are looking for work because they have paid their taxes for this very reason

The choice is not do 20 hours or get nothing

I'm arguing against the attitude people have to actually doing a bit of work to recieve €10.15 an hour, you'd swere they were asked to work 60 hours a week for their dole

Fixed that bit for you

Jester252

SV wrote: »

It's a logical point of view. If I got enough to keep me happy as my wages do now and had the option of not working then I'd do the exact same.

Its massive flaw with the SW system in Ireland

SV

Jester252 wrote: »

Its massive flaw with the SW system in Ireland

Rightfully it should be analysed on a case by case basis but that would never work.

Also, there's no reason that work not being available should mean people shouldn't be comfortable with the money they're receiving but perhaps spread out a different way.

super_furry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12h_x3Y0ifg

This comes to mind.

Value Hunter

degrassinoel wrote: »

Example 2 is wrong, in oh so many ways. The fact that you actually think that's how it works is mind boggling.

In receipt of the dole, you work zero hours but you are looking for work (and need to prove it regularly) you get a supplementary rent allowance (if eligible), you get 1 (not more) allowance that has to cover all your expenses (bills food clothing etc.) the standard being €180-something per week. I'm not certain of child allowances, maybe someone else could explain that to you.

keep in mind that all of that money you're complaining about goes straight back into the economy every week with how it's spent. it's not like you can save very much if anything whilst on the dole either mate.

Need to prove it regularly, haha come off it mate, everyone knows that aspect of SW is a joke ('yes i handed out Cv's')


Minimum


€183

+ €180 a week (as you just said)

Total = €363



Worker who works full time = €346


How do yous not get it????

shane9689

replace most of the money with food vouchers and benefits etc....then the hard working on social welfare cant complain and the wasters might actually have to work in order to get any "pocket" money

Yamanoto

Value Hunter wrote: »

Surprised I haven't seen any other threads on this

Having a pop at the unemployed on Christmas eve just reads as a little mean-spirited.

Or maybe I'm an ol' softie.

Value Hunter

Yamanoto wrote: »

Having a pop at the unemployed on Christmas eve just reads as a little mean-spirited.

Or maybe I'm an ol' softie.

Yes because my views are going to ruin Christmas for the familys :rolleyes:

Henlars67

Value Hunter wrote: »

Minmimun wage worker - 40 hours a week = €346

Welfare recipient - €183 + rent allowance = ?? est €150/€200 per week? (I have no source at hand)

Guy who works 40 hours - €346

guy who works 0 hours = €333/€383


Fair?

LOL

COYW

COYW wrote: »

Absolutely true. I was over with friends last night and their nephew was telling me that he lived very comfortably on the dole for 10 months. He was living at home with his parents, so his food, rent, heating etc was all covered. The dole money was pocket money for him. He turned into a right lazy git though, his words not mine and is far better off, not financially I might add, working in his minimum wage job now.

He's not financially better off because he moved out, not because he started working, very silly example.

KERSPLAT!

Value Hunter wrote: »

Need to prove it regularly, haha come off it mate, everyone knows that aspect of SW is a joke ('yes i handed out Cv's')


Minimum


€183

+ €180 a week (as you just said)

Total = €363



Worker who works full time = €346


How do yous not get it????

What's the 183 and the 180?

When I was on SW it was 188, that's it. Nothing extra, no rent allowance or any of the other crap you seem to think every unemployed person is entitled to

0ph0rce0

Why does anyone give a ****?

We will never take in more than we spend.

Taxes will always go up.

The Cost of living will always rise.

Supplies and Necessities will always rise.

Your tax money will be spent on ****e and go to the wrong places and in the pockets of dodgy ****s for as long as you live

I have better things to worry about than what some person does with €188, Lifes a bitch, get on with it.

It's Christmas, cant we all just get along for one day.

COYW

Yamanoto wrote: »

Having a pop at the unemployed on Christmas eve just reads as a little mean-spirited.

You probably think it is wrong that they don't get their bonus at Christmas too, I suspect.

degrassinoel wrote: »

In receipt of the dole, you work zero hours but you are looking for work (and need to prove it regularly)

That is a Christmas cracker of a joke.

Yamanoto

Value Hunter wrote: »

Yes because my views are going to ruin Christmas for the familys :rolleyes:

Well, maybe just one family in particular :pac:

Value Hunter

Princess Petulia Pissy Pants wrote: »

What's the 183 and the 180?

When I was on SW it was 188, that's it. Nothing extra, no rent allowance or any of the other crap you seem to think every unemployed person is entitled to

Just read the bit at the top of my post, you know, the bit I highlighted :rolleyes:

degrassinoel

Value Hunter wrote: »

Need to prove it regularly, haha come off it mate, everyone knows that aspect of SW is a joke ('yes i handed out Cv's')


Minimum


€183

+ €180 a week (as you just said)

Total = €363



Worker who works full time = €346


How do yous not get it????

Tbh man, i think you're just trolling now, i cant actually explain it to ye any easier than i already have. Maybe you just need yourself a black uniform and a red armband, and have yourself a good ol' crystalnacht.

Toby Take a Bow

Value Hunter wrote: »

€183

+ €180 a week (as you just said)

Total = €363

Worker who works full time = €346

Why are you adding 183 to 180? The top rate of social welfare is 188/week. I was on the dole until recently and I only ever got 188/week. Can you explain what the 180 on top of this was from?

KERSPLAT!

Value Hunter wrote: »

Just read the bit at the top of my post, you know, the bit I highlighted :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

Yamanoto

COYW wrote: »

You probably think it is wrong that they don't get their bonus at Christmas too, I suspect.

'Tis truly the season for sharing our suspicions

0ph0rce0

The highlighted bit??? Is this what you mean

I know!!! I haven't a clue what i'm talking about so i'll add 180 and 183 together, Because that's what i do i pull numbers from my arse

Toby Take a Bow

Value Hunter wrote: »

Just read the bit at the top of my post, you know, the bit I highlighted :rolleyes:

I think you may have misread degrassinoel's post. But don't let a bit of (purposeful?) ignorance ruin a rant on Christmas Eve.

Value Hunter

degrassinoel wrote: »

Tbh man, i think you're just trolling now, i cant actually explain it to ye any easier than i already have. Maybe you just need yourself a black uniform and a red armband, and have yourself a good ol' crystalnacht.

How? I just took the exact points you acknowledged (i.e €183 a week dole + €180 in allowances) and compared them to what a minimum wage worker earns

Daqster

50" TVs Joe and Wiis. They had so many Wiis they were dropping them on Jervis St.

Value Hunter

degrassinoel wrote: »

Example 2 is wrong, in oh so many ways. The fact that you actually think that's how it works is mind boggling.

In receipt of the dole, you work zero hours but you are looking for work (and need to prove it regularly) you get a supplementary rent allowance (if eligible), you get 1 (not more) allowance that has to cover all your expenses (bills food clothing etc.) the standard being €180-something per week. I'm not certain of child allowances, maybe someone else could explain that to you.

keep in mind that all of that money you're complaining about goes straight back into the economy every week with how it's spent. it's not like you can save very much if anything whilst on the dole either mate.

Clear enough children?

super_furry

Daqster wrote: »

50" TVs Joe and Wiis. They had so many Wiis they were dropping them on Jervis St.

They don't even bother taking the buggies off the bus Joe, because they'll get a new one!

Gringo180

shane9689 wrote: »

replace most of the money with food vouchers and benefits etc....then the hard working on social welfare cant complain and the wasters might actually have to work in order to get any "pocket" money

I am know expert but basic economics and common sense would tell me that this would also hit small local business's and the local economy. You see the vast majority of welfare recipients put there money back into the economy.

Toby Take a Bow

Value Hunter wrote: »

Clear enough children?

Apparently not for yourself. The only entitlement with regards to social welfare for the unemployed is 188 euro (or less depending on whether you are on benefit or allowance).

People may get entitlements (such as rent or medical) on top of this, but the criteria are fairly strict. I know in all my time on the dole, all I ever got was the basic.

Don't go adding up random figures in extra benefits and compare to someone working minimum wage.

Niles

Personally I don't understand the 'why work if I can live off the dole' mentality either, speaking as someone who was out of work for a while I found it quite un-fulfilling and it's not something I'd ever want to go back to.

0ph0rce0

Value Hunter wrote: »

Clear enough children?

Yes, that's the 1 standard payment of 188 you get he is referring to, That is your allowance to cover all your expenses, Rent, Bills, Food.

kowloon

That time would be much better used for education. Meaningful education. This whole 'occupy them with work' thing seems very Victorian to me, I thought we'd moved on from that.

Value Hunter

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Apparently not for yourself. The only entitlement with regards to social welfare for the unemployed is 188 euro (or less depending on whether you are on benefit or allowance).

People may get entitlements (such as rent or medical) on top of this, but the criteria are fairly strict. I know in all my time on the dole, all I ever got was the basic.

Don't go adding up random figures in extra benefits and compare to someone working minimum wage.

And Rent allowance is non existent in this country??

Average rent allowance per month in Finglas is roughly €800 per month

800 per month = roughly 200 per week

200 + 183 = 383

Now I accept these are rough figures

But dont tell me €183 is the standard

Someone working minimum wage is better off on the dole in this country

Annasopra

Red Crow wrote: »

don't expect any criticism of the welfare ones to go down well here.

Funniest comment I've ever read on boards.ie

lougholad

Value Hunter wrote: »

And Rent allowance is non existent in this country??

Average rent allowance per month in Finglas is roughly €800 per month

800 per month = roughly 200 per week

200 + 183 = 383

Now I accept these are rough figures

But dont tell me €183 is the standard

Someone working minimum wage is better off on the dole in this country

not to mention free medical care.. ive had to visit doc 6 times this year at 60 quid a pop. someone on the dole would go every second week becasue its free. Id nearly wait until im dead before going to see the doc with the hope that whatever i had would soon blow over.

KERSPLAT!

Me when I was unemployed

SW - €188
Rent allowance - €0

Person in minimum wage job

€337.35

I was not better off than someone on minimum wage.