Dog owners opinions of meeting a puppy german shepherd of 1yr with no muzzle

DBB

DamagedTrax wrote: »

fair enough, i misread it..

BUT in fairness no dog warden would be taking my dog and i doubt anyone else would let them. so whats the point of the law? unless there is a copper with them, how exactly can they seize the dog? whats to stop you walking away and disappearing around the corner?

they must be aware of this or not bothered because when i challenged him he backed down.

If you don't voluntarily hand the dog over, then you've to answer your case for why you obstructed an authorised officer acting under his/her warrant.
No warden, or law enforcement officer, is going to stand there arguing with you on the side of the street, unless they're very foolish. They'll let the judge make the orders, which stand to be more severe because of an owner's lack of co-operation in the face of breaking a law.

DamagedTrax

DBB wrote: »

If you don't voluntarily hand the dog over, then you've to answer your case for why you obstructed an authorised officer acting under his/her warrant.
No warden, or law enforcement officer, is going to stand there arguing with you on the side of the street, unless they're very foolish. They'll let the judge make the orders, which stand to be more severe because of an owner's lack of co-operation in the face of breaking a law.

what i meant is if its a dog warden with no cops around then whats to stop you refusing to give your name and just walking away and down some side street or thru gardens where he cant follow. i doubt very much a dog warden would be foolish enough to try and detain a person.

Bullseye1

I refer to my signature if you want to help change the law.

DBB

DamagedTrax wrote: »

what i meant is if its a dog warden with no cops around then whats to stop you refusing to give your name and just walking away and down some side street or thru gardens where he cant follow. i doubt very much a dog warden would be foolish enough to try and detain a person.

I know what you meant. Believe me, it's pretty easy to find out who someone is. A small amount of research would likely track a person down. If a warden attempts to ask you your details having formed the opinion that you're breaking the law, and you ignore him/her, you've entered a whole new realm of offense that far supersedes the menial offense of not having a muzzle on your dog, and for which the dog warden will have the full co-operation of the guards, social services, and other state services, to track down who you are.
Not having a muzzle on your dog is an offense that a dog warden might reasonably give an owner some latitude. But obstructing an authorised officer in the course of his/her duties, is one that really pees off all law enforcement officers and guards, and judges.

biko

juniord wrote: »

always carry a muzzle with you and if a warden or garda asks you to put it on then just put it on and that will more than likely be the end of it

I can see how this makes sense in that you only muzzle the dog when someone is approaching.
But on the other hand OP may as well muzzle the dog so it learns to associate it with walks before it gets big. There are plenty of muzzles that are comfortable enough and OP won't have to worry about wardens.

willmunny1990

The laws regarding animals in general in Ireland are quite pathetic and are rarely enforced.

I cant count how many times Ive seen scumbags with"dangerous" dogs in the centre of town with no muzzles on, not a bother. I have never heard of a dog warden kicking up a fuss about any dog without a complaint, never heard of one bringing someone to task over a dog with no muzzle.

Just look at the cruelty that goes on everyday in plain view, all you have to do is walk pass any halting site and you see numerous violations regarding animal welfare, laws etc..and nothing is ever done.

I seriously doubt a warden is going to stop you for walking a dog without a muzzle, not unless it does something and someone complains, even then I doubt they would get up off their arse and do something about it.

DBB

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I have never heard of a dog warden kicking up a fuss about any dog without a complaint, never heard of one bringing someone to task over a dog with no muzzle.

You may never have heard of it, but does this mean it doesn't happen? Of course not. To counter your anecdotal evidence, I'll tell you that I have come across quite a few cases of owners being warned and/or fined for breaches of the Control of Dogs Act and regulations.

I seriously doubt a warden is going to stop you for walking a dog without a muzzle, not unless it does something and someone complains, even then I doubt they would get up off their arse and do something about it.

I'm sensing antipathy towards wardens here! It seems to me that dog control regulations are being enforced more and more these days, particularly in the past 5 years. Some counties are well ahead of others, but there is a definite national trend that the screw is being tightened on dog owners: signs being erected in parks listing dog control rules, park wardens enforcing said rules, parks and beaches only being allowed to be used by dogs and owners at certain times of the day, and certainly in this neck of the woods, regular door-to-door visits to check licences, very visible patrols by the wardens, and owners being stopped if their rb is not muzzled or on lead.

borderlinemeath

DBB wrote: »

You may never have heard of it, but does this mean it doesn't happen? Of course not. To counter your anecdotal evidence, I'll tell you that I have come across quite a few cases of owners being warned and/or fined for breaches of the Control of Dogs Act and regulations.



I'm sensing antipathy towards wardens here! It seems to me that dog control regulations are being enforced more and more these days, particularly in the past 5 years. Some counties are well ahead of others, but there is a definite national trend that the screw is being tightened on dog owners: signs being erected in parks listing dog control rules, park wardens enforcing said rules, parks and beaches only being allowed to be used by dogs and owners at certain times of the day, and certainly in this neck of the woods, regular door-to-door visits to check licences, very visible patrols by the wardens, and owners being stopped if their rb is not muzzled or on lead.

Just to counter balance your anecdotal evidence - and bearing in mind that we aren't a million miles apart geographically, although I am in another county (by about a mile) ....

I have never once been stopped by a dog warden. Never. And I walk a lot of dogs, some RBs some regular. Although I walk a lot on private land, I also walk a lot on the very public beach where laws are flouted, day in, day out. I have also called the dog warden on occasion for various things, lost dogs, dog fouling in a shop I was managing (and it wasn't a pet shop!), persistant dog roaming...never once have I got hold of the dog warden and only one occasion can I remember getting a call back on the same day.

So it may be that some counties have their act together, or some pockets of the country are just ridiculously understaffed. From memory, Louth, one of the smallest counties in the country has three dog wardens and Meath, a much larger county, has just one!! That number may well have changed since the last time I checked, but a couple of years ago this was the case.

Whispered

DBB wrote: »

You may never have heard of it, but does this mean it doesn't happen? Of course not. To counter your anecdotal evidence, I'll tell you that I have come across quite a few cases of owners being warned and/or fined for breaches of the Control of Dogs Act and regulations.



I'm sensing antipathy towards wardens here! It seems to me that dog control regulations are being enforced more and more these days, particularly in the past 5 years. Some counties are well ahead of others, but there is a definite national trend that the screw is being tightened on dog owners: signs being erected in parks listing dog control rules, park wardens enforcing said rules, parks and beaches only being allowed to be used by dogs and owners at certain times of the day, and certainly in this neck of the woods, regular door-to-door visits to check licences, very visible patrols by the wardens, and owners being stopped if their rb is not muzzled or on lead.

DBB have you ever heard of someone with an unmuzzled rb having the dog taken on the spot?

Personally wouldn't argue too much if I was fined. I know the law and choose to ignore it so have to be accepting of the consequences for me. Having a dog impounded on the spot is a different story, if this is the case I'll have to consider again.

I've personally never heard of a dog being taken while out walking. Surely it would be in extreme circumstances, like repeated offences, dog causing damage when out and not under control etc.

What do you think?

DBB

@ borderlinemeath,
Louth is one of the three top counties in terms of enforcement of dog control laws in recent years. There are two or three dog wardens, but also a small number of litter wardens who double up as assistants to the dog wardens where necessary.
Some counties are a shambles (I have a fair idea of stuff that's going on in Meath, but that's not for discussion), but as I said in my post, there is a definite move around the country for more enforcement: there's more public awareness and pressure, more call for accountability, and transparency. Just because it hasn't hit some counties yet doesn't mean it's not going to, nor that it happens nowhere, which is the point I was countering in the first place.

DBB

Whispered wrote: »

DBB have you ever heard of someone with an unmuzzled rb having the dog taken on the spot?

Not there and then on the street, no. But I have come across several incidents around the country of dogs being taken under Section 16(b) subsequently, from their homes.
I would say it's pretty rare though, and would imagine that if you dug deeper, you'd find there was more to these seizures than meets the eye, as you suggest!
Although the power is there to take the dog immediately, as I said before, I think a warden would be foolish to engage in this particular argument in the street.

juniord

I seriously doubt a warden is going to stop you for walking a dog without a muzzle, not unless it does something and someone complains.

a warden driving around in a van stopped beside me and asked me to put the muzzle on , i put it on and he drove off , no big drama or scene , im sure if i had been argumentative with him it would have been different

tk123

Whispered wrote: »

DBB have you ever heard of someone with an unmuzzled rb having the dog taken on the spot?

I have - it was a stuffy taken from the south side of Dublin. The warden told the people he was chatting to that he took the dog because the owners were arguing with him. From friends experience meeting him it's easiest to apologise for breaking the rules and the warden will be on his way - he told that that himself that he doesn't want any trouble/arguments with people. I met him in the vets a while back and he was admiring and petting the dogs lol

Kukey

juniord wrote: »

a warden driving around in a van stopped beside me and asked me to put the muzzle on , i put it on and he drove off , no big drama or scene , im sure if i had been argumentative with him it would have been different

Just to clarify I have never been argumentative with a Warden,I have always been civil when approached by him re licences or muzzles.
My dog is not a big ferocious snarling GSD,she is a timid dog who never leaves my side.She has no interest in other dogs or people.She gets complimented by people in the park who think she is the most well behaved dog,they have ever met.
He implied that he could seize her if he wanted to,she is standing calmly on a lead with muzzle around her neck.
I just said ok and put the muzzle on her properly and walked off.
I have noticed though that other people who have their RB running freely, will be told by him to put the muzzle on and that's it!!
As I have said before I am the only one who muzzles their dog in my area,
no one else bothers their necks.
There was a new Warden around a few months ago and he stopped me to admire my dog:P He was petting her and asking all about her as she is an unusual looking dog.
It made a nice change to be having a friendly chat with a Warden,rather than be in trouble over something.:p

juniord

@ kukey my point was the warden is just doing a job and doesnt want a load of grief all day , the fact that you put the muzzle on and were allowed to walk off without any further action proves my point ,

tk123

juniord wrote: »

@ kukey my point was the warden is just doing a job and doesnt want a load of grief all day , the fact that you put the muzzle on and were allowed to walk off without any further action proves my point ,

+1 that's pretty much what I've heard from people who were chatting to him.. Flip side of the coin is bloody idiots in our park arguing with him and refusing to put their dogs back on the lead telling him they pay his wages etc etc etc! :rolleyes:

Kukey

Ah I know that but just reading other replies,people think if you are being smart and argumentative and your dog is aggressive,then it's no wonder the Warden will threaten to seize your dog.

juniord

dont know why he was telling you what his powers are if he wasnt going to push the issue , maybe trying to frighten you into keeping the muzzle on all the time in public,

fatmammycat

I've met the JO'D, one of Dublin's two wardens, a number of times with my non-muzzled GSD and he's an absolute gent. Apart from the first time we met– when I got on my high horse as the dog was only 3 months old at the time– he has always been totally fine about my overly friendly always on lead GSD and usually stops for a cuddle/slobber with my dog and a chat about his own dogs. I think wardens, by and large, have a hard enough job without people being unreasonable with them. At the end of the day they are just trying to do their job, a pretty thankless task.

willmunny1990

I dont buy that we're becoming better at enforcing these laws, animal welfare laws either, I mean there was a thread here not so long ago about the abuse of cats in Carrick, guards were notified numerous times but done nothing, thats shocking and its just not a major concern for law enforcers. Im sure people have other horror stories too.

Same goes for Dog Wardens for the most part, I never said they Definately dont stop or kick up a fuss, I never said that, what im saying is that I have never heard or seen one bother enforcing laws like muzzles on dangerous breeds, but does it happen? of course it does, does it happen a lot? id wager not. In fact id say its a real rarity.

juniord

i am walking dogs a long time now, all would have been restricted breed and have only ever been stopped once by a warden and once by a garda both times i just done as i was asked and that was the end of it , there are no dogs classed as dangerous breeds in ireland

toadfly

willmunny1990 wrote: »

I have never heard or seen one bother enforcing laws like muzzles on dangerous breeds, but does it happen?

No such thing as a dangerous breed.

willmunny1990

toadfly wrote: »

No such thing as a dangerous breed.

Certain breeds are restricted because they are seen to be more dangerous than others.

jantheman91

I'd have no problem saying hello to any dog.

The stigma attached to breeds is ridiculous and unwarranted.

If you take a pup and treat it with love and respect you can bet your money it'll turn out just fine.

toadfly

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Certain breeds are restricted because they are seen to be more dangerous than others.

That doesn't actually mean they are or make them dangerous so I repeat: there is no breed that is dangerous.

borderlinemeath

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Certain breeds are restricted because they are seen to be more dangerous than others.

There are plenty of breeds that I would consider far more 'dangerous' than those on the restricted breed list. And by 'dangerous' I don't necessarily mean that the dogs on the list are 'dangerous', but that there are breeds that would react and bite quicker due to their working nature. The list was compiled on the back of the UKs list, not on the basis that the dogs on the list actually were responsible for a verified amount of bites or attacks.

I'd sooner have any dog on that list than have a collie, or some terrier breeds.

willmunny1990

toadfly wrote: »

That doesn't actually mean they are or make them dangerous so I repeat: there is no breed that is dangerous.

Whether you agree with the list of ristricted breeds or if they are dangerous or not doesnt concern me, we are talking about a dog that happens to be on it. I refered to the dog as dangerous because it is on the list of ristricted breeds and I use the word dangerous loosely, the restricted breeds are seen as more dangerous than others by most and the law, again, whether you agree with that doesnt concern me. Thats the fact.

The Op walks a GSP without a muzzle and the issue is whether its ok to walk it without a muzzle, legally its supposed to be muzzled but the chances of a warden stopping you if the dog isnt posing a problem are quite small in most cases.

toadfly

I am well aware of the list of restricted breeds. I was just pointing out they aren't "dangerous" breeds, they are restricted breeds so no need to refer to them as dangerous.

juniord

willmunny1990 wrote: »

The Op walks a GSP without a muzzle and the issue is whether its ok to walk it without a muzzle, legally its supposed to be muzzled but the chances of a warden stopping you if the dog isnt posing a problem are quite small in most cases.

i read the op as asking how other dog owners felt about meeting his rb dog unmuzzled not a request for legal advice

willmunny1990

juniord wrote: »

i read the op as asking how other dog owners felt about meeting his rb dog unmuzzled not a request for legal advice

I never suggested the OP made a request for legal advice?

I said the OP walks a GSP without a muzzle, which is true, then the discussion went into leagilty, dog wardens and so on..can you not read properly?