Dog owners opinions of meeting a puppy german shepherd of 1yr with no muzzle

Allknowing

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I never said it was a punishment, I said it was inhibitive. It inhibits a dog with socialization, and letting a dog being a dog. Do you let your dogs enjoy a walk or do they plod along beside you like a robot dog? I like my dogs to enjoy life, enjoy their walks, they run and pant profusely off lead, play and mouth with other dogs, something impossible with a muzzle on.

Again you're assuming the worst - that owners of human aggressive and canine aggressive dogs are oblivious to their dogs lack of social skills. And again, for a trainer to have the opinion that further restrictive legislation needs introducing on all dogs would lead me to have no confidence in said trainer - lets just muzzle all dogs, it would make the trainers life easier - treat the symptoms and not find the cause of the problem.

So you believe all dogs should be allowed off leash and unmuzzled?

You seem to be trying to tie the argument down to me and my dogs and my training experience. That is beside the point.
Only a tiny percentage of the dogs in this country have any training so concentrating on the training aspect is irrelevant to the topic. Everybody deciding there dog is the exception (as you do) does not work.

DBB

DBB wrote: »

M'lady will suffice

ps I did have to check though!

For those filthy-minded readers out there, I meant that I had to check that I hadn't issued a warning about staying on-topic, NOT that I had to check whether I was a Sir or a Lady :mad:

Allknowing

borderlinemeath wrote: »

So it's ok for one to savage the other because he can't even growl in defence??



So punish all dogs for the actions of a few? Absolutely ridiculous suggestion. Removing confusion?? You're removing the ability for a dog to be a dog, to socialize and meet other dogs, to sniff each other without a large inhibitive plastic muzzle, to sniff in ditches, lamposts. I presume your radical thinking also includes that all dogs should be on leads all the time rather than being allowed run off lead?

How does two dogs biting be an easier remedy than one. What kind of muzzle prohibits growling????

Dogs should most certainly not be allowed to run off lead. Not because of the dogs that are behaved, have recall etc, but because of those that don't. I really feel I am going in circles with you here.

There are plenty of places where dogs can socialize in a controlled environment, I personally don't think a load of strange dogs running if lead in a public park is one of them.

borderlinemeath

Allknowing wrote: »

So you believe all dogs should be allowed off leash and unmuzzled?

You seem to be trying to tie the argument down to me and my dogs and my training experience. That is beside the point.
Only a tiny percentage of the dogs in this country have any training so concentrating on the training aspect is irrelevant to the topic. Everybody deciding there dog is the exception (as you do) does not work.

I absolutely don't think all dogs should be off leash. I know plenty that I wouldn't dream of letting off, even when their owners do. I did say that given your opinion that all dogs should be muzzled wouldn't instill confidence in you as a trainer as you seem to want to 'mask' the chance of a symptom with a muzzle, rather than looking for the cause.

Also, where are the figures to back up your claim that only a tiny percentage of dogs have training? Do you have access to trainers databases? Are you including any training that experienced dog owners may do themselves with their pets? Or are you just making up numbers in your head based on your opinion?

Not everybody decides that their dog is the exception, that is your opinion and you seem to want blanket legislation to change that, which to me indicates that you have a very poor opinion of all dog owners. From your posts I get the feeling that because you have worked and trained a restricted breed, and a guarding breed at that, that every dog (and every owner) should be assumed to be the same.

Lastly, you don't know me, or my dogs. I certainly don't think I am an exception to any rule and if for one minute I thought my dogs were a danger, or even an annoyance to anybody when they are off lead, then they go on lead, no question. When we are in public I am constantly looking out for them, where they are, what they are doing, who they might want to say hello to. For the record if a dog is approaching off lead they stop and I tell them either to 'go say hello', if the owner is ok with it, or call their name and they don't approach. Do I think my dogs are bombproof in every situation? No, but I never let them get into a situation where they might feel threatened or frightened so I minimise any chance of anything happening.

Allknowing

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I never said it was a punishment, I said it was inhibitive. It inhibits a dog with socialization, and letting a dog being a dog. Do you let your dogs enjoy a walk or do they plod along beside you like a robot dog? I like my dogs to enjoy life, enjoy their walks, they run and pant profusely off lead, play and mouth with other dogs, something impossible with a muzzle on.

Again you're assuming the worst - that owners of human aggressive and canine aggressive dogs are oblivious to their dogs lack of social skills. And again, for a trainer to have the opinion that further restrictive legislation needs introducing on all dogs would lead me to have no confidence in said trainer - lets just muzzle all dogs, it would make the trainers life easier - treat the symptoms and not find the cause of the problem.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I absolutely don't think all dogs should be off leash. I know plenty that I wouldn't dream of letting off, even when their owners do. I did say that given your opinion that all dogs should be muzzled wouldn't instill confidence in you as a trainer as you seem to want to 'mask' the chance of a symptom with a muzzle, rather than looking for the cause.

Also, where are the figures to back up your claim that only a tiny percentage of dogs have training? Do you have access to trainers databases? Are you including any training that experienced dog owners may do themselves with their pets? Or are you just making up numbers in your head based on your opinion?

Not everybody decides that their dog is the exception, that is your opinion and you seem to want blanket legislation to change that, which to me indicates that you have a very poor opinion of all dog owners. From your posts I get the feeling that because you have worked and trained a restricted breed, and a guarding breed at that, that every dog (and every owner) should be assumed to be the same.

Lastly, you don't know me, or my dogs. I certainly don't think I am an exception to any rule and if for one minute I thought my dogs were a danger, or even an annoyance to anybody when they are off lead, then they go on lead, no question. When we are in public I am constantly looking out for them, where they are, what they are doing, who they might want to say hello to. For the record if a dog is approaching off lead they stop and I tell them either to 'go say hello', if the owner is ok with it, or call their name and they don't approach. Do I think my dogs are bombproof in every situation? No, but I never let them get into a situation where they might feel threatened or frightened so I minimise any chance of anything happening.

I will try this again. Well done you, I am sure your dogs are wonderful and you are a extraordinary trainer.

I am not masking the problem.I muzzle my dogs because I am legally required to do so. I am not responsible for or have any controlled over any other dogs.

You really believe that most dogs have proper training? Sorry but that is just silly.

I am saying (again) that if it is left up to the individual to decide whether the rules should apply to them that is not going to work and can lead to injured animals and people.

I find your argument a little silly. You start by objecting to muzzle because your dog cant defend itself and the claim there is no problem with dog aggression.

borderlinemeath

Allknowing wrote: »

I will try this again. Well done you, I am sure your dogs are wonderful and you are a extraordinary trainer.

I am not masking the problem.I muzzle my dogs because I am legally required to do so. I am not responsible for or have any controlled over any other dogs.

I never referred to your dogs. I referred to your opinion that all dogs should be muzzled, RB or not.

You really believe that most dogs have proper training? Sorry but that is just silly.

It depends on what you consider training. Obedience? Agility? Hunting? Working? Just because you may encounter dogs that don't work, doesn't mean they're untrained. I have to say though, your very good at avoiding answering what I've asked you, have you numbers to back up your claim? Or is it just your opinion?

I am saying (again) that if it is left up to the [individual to decide whether the rules should apply to them that is not going to work and can lead to injured animals and people.

I find your argument a little silly. You start by objecting to muzzle because your dog cant defend itself and the claim there is no problem with dog aggression.

But there are no rules in place stating all dogs should be muzzled. And again, for a trainer to be in favour of a blanket muzzling law, I find very puzzling indeed.

Allknowing

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I never referred to your dogs. I referred to your opinion that all dogs should be muzzled, RB or not.


It depends on what you consider training. Obedience? Agility? Hunting? Working? Just because you may encounter dogs that don't work, doesn't mean they're untrained. I have to say though, your very good at avoiding answering what I've asked you, have you numbers to back up your claim? Or is it just your opinion?



But there are no rules in place stating all dogs should be muzzled. And again, for a trainer to be in favour of a blanket muzzling law, I find very puzzling indeed.

You did refer to my dogs. Robotic walks I believe.

Obviously obedience. Agility would have little to do withthe topic.

THE SKY IS BLUE,GRASS IS GREEN.....AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF DOGS IN IRELAND HAVE NOT SUFFICIENT TRAINING. To think otherwise is idiotic.

I know only RB require lead muzzle. The op was speaking in relation to one.

I will say again, I trained my dogs....they have no issues...I muzzle because I am required to by law....I did not train every dog in Ireland and therefore...not responsible for them....therefore I would want an aggressive dog in the park muzzled and on a lead....not because I am deficient as a trainer...but because I have no control or responsibility over other peoples dogs.