Zlatan with some real talk about women's footy

enfant terrible

Mars Bar wrote: »

Fair enough, you didn't say it was a complete waste of time. My apologies.

It just gets on my wick when this conversation pops up and turns in to "my pub team would be the German women's team".

As for the dressing it up more than it is is patronising? No it's not. The women put in such hard work while attending college or doing part time work (Niamh Fahey for example) and people think it doesn't deserve the air time are wrong in my opinion. We need more televised women's game and we need more publicity. We need more over the top praise.

They need to link it to the men's game like women's tennis do.

The standard of women's tennis is a lot lower than men's but once people get to know the players they become interested.

They should have the women play before the FA cup final etc.

niallo27

enfant terrible wrote: »

They need to link it to the men's game like women's tennis do.

The standard of women's tennis is a lot lower than men's but once people get to know the players they become interested.

They should have the women play before the FA cup final etc.

Women's golf is huge as well. I think football is more of a common game if you know what I mean. It would be very hard to convert fans.

enfant terrible

niallo27 wrote: »

Women's golf is huge as well. I think football is more of a common game if you know what I mean. It would be very hard to convert fans.

Is women's golf huge I wouldn't know the name of one player.

niallo27

enfant terrible wrote: »

Is women's golf huge I wouldn't know the name of one player.

In the states it is. It's not huge as such compared to men's game but gets a lot of tv time.

enfant terrible

niallo27 wrote: »

In the states it is. It's not huge as such compared to men's game but gets a lot of tv time.

One women's sport that's really taking off is women's MMA.

Ronda Rousey is making a fortune being the first women's UFC champion.

Mars Bar

enfant terrible wrote: »

They need to link it to the men's game like women's tennis do.

The standard of women's tennis is a lot lower than men's but once people get to know the players they become interested.

They should have the women play before the FA cup final etc.

The Olympics kind of did that which was great.

The FAI did the same with the FAI Cup Final.

enfant terrible

Mars Bar wrote: »

The Olympics kind of did that which was great.

The FAI did the same with the FAI Cup Final.

That's good but a FA cup, CL or World Cup final would be a different ball game.

ArmaniJeanss

enfant terrible wrote: »

That's good but a FA cup, CL or World Cup final would be a different ball game.

As in play the womens cup final at Wembley a few hours before the mens final?
That wouldn't be good for either game to be honest....
Fans of the mans game complaining about 10,000 tickets or whatever being unavailable for them. Meanwhile the fans of the two womens teams having to pay £80 or whatever a Wembley ticket would cost, and the game itself taking place in what would look a deserted Wembley.

Sir Gallagher

ush wrote: »

The conversation shouldn't be about the differences between the womens and mens game. Zlatan's comments were directed against fellow professionals.

Swedish media are saying that he was planning the comments for the past month. Anders Svensson received a car as an award for his cap record a while back. Therese Sjögran, who has most caps for the ladies, didn't. Thats the background.

Also there was an interview during last week; Swedish reporter Johanna Frändén interviewed Laurnet Blanc. Blanc patronised her about her knowledge of the game.

So maybe there's a bigger aspect to this. Zlatan is maybe trying to comment on Sweden's sense of gender equality. Which is unfortunate. He's bigger and more gracious than this. He's proven it plenty of times. I suspect he'll honestly regret this.

Ibrahimovic "gracious" really?

enfant terrible

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

As in play the womens cup final at Wembley a few hours before the mens final?
That wouldn't be good for either game to be honest....
Fans of the mans game complaining about 10,000 tickets or whatever being unavailable for them. Meanwhile the fans of the two womens teams having to pay £80 or whatever a Wembley ticket would cost, and the game itself taking place in what would look a deserted Wembley.

Depends if you want the women's game to grow or not.

If you do then they're going to need help and even inconvenience others.

I'm sure the old stalwarts of the tennis game had no interest in watching women's tennis in the early 70's either.

ArmaniJeanss

enfant terrible wrote: »

Depends if you want the women's game to grow or not.

If you do then they're going to need help and even inconvenience others.

I'm sure the old stalwarts of the tennis game had no interest in watching women's tennis in the early 70's either.

Not sure of the validity of the comparison really, its not as if the Wimbledon Womens final is on the same day as the mens.
Anyway trying to grow it from a 10K attendance (sometimes less) to an 80K stadium in one leap seems foolhardly.

Tying them together as an event might be good though, final in Craven Cottage on the Friday night, all Wembley tickets valid, same broadcaster etc.

Paul Tergat

enfant terrible wrote: »

One women's sport that's really taking off is women's MMA.

Ronda Rousey is making a fortune being the first women's UFC champion.

Hate to say it but the fact shes also hot is a huge help to her

enfant terrible

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Not sure of the validity of the comparison really, its not as if the Wimbledon Womens final is on the same day as the mens.
Anyway trying to grow it from a 10K attendance (sometimes less) to an 80K stadium in one leap seems foolhardly.

Tying them together as an event might be good though, final in Craven Cottage on the Friday night, all Wembley tickets valid, same broadcaster etc.

Think they want more exposure from television not the 80k stadium.

ush

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Ibrahimovic "gracious" really?

I think he can be on occasion. He's not always acting the prick, like say Ronaldo.

Paul Tergat

ush wrote: »

I think he can be on occasion. He's not always acting the prick, like say Ronaldo.

What a stupid, unfounded comment

MisterAnarchy

Surprised noboby has mentioned this gem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienZj9onV0Q

On a serious note why are women goalies so bad .

ush

...

Chancer3001

Not all are bad.

See hope solo.

She's awesome.

I already made the point, she's probably the greatest ever female keeper and she's just 2 inches taller than messi. Not ideal for full size goals.

Mars Bar

Yeah, a lot of the time it's not the keeper that's the problem. The goals just don't give them a chance.

MisterAnarchy

Mars Bar wrote: »

Yeah, a lot of the time it's not the keeper that's the problem. The goals just don't give them a chance.

The most noticeable thing I find about womens football is how bad the goalies are.
The rest of the team usually look decent but the keepers look terrible for some reason.
They usually cant perform basic functions like catching the ball or basic saves ,its like the ball is a hot potato.

Watching the Olympics last year the standard of goalkeeping was shocking, although I was impressed with the general standard of play apart from that.

I never saw Hope Solo play but a quick check on youtube shows that she is a brilliant keeper ,amazing reflexes.

Owen_S

Xavi6 wrote: »

That's a team of future professionals. Indeed, some of them would be playing top level football within a couple of years.

Your claim that you and a group of other Sunday leaguers "would beat the best women's soccer team" is a million miles from that and simply not true.

However, the original topic of the thread is about the media attention given to Women's football. Right now, it is safe to say it gets more attention than academy games by the major broadcasters. I'm not a huge fan of Zlatan's, but he is completely right here.

Donnielighto

Do we give attention based on quotas or athletic merit? That's the cusp of this debate. Is it relative or absolute success that is key?

yohan the great

ush wrote: »

I think he can be on occasion. He's not always acting the prick, like say Ronaldo.

Ah when has Ronaldo acted the prick off the field? Ever?

Xavi6

BNMC wrote: »

You're wrong here Zavi6. I played LSL for a season, we played the Irish Ladies U21 team. We beat them 13-0 and that was only 30 minutes a half. They had that keeper that plays with Arsenal (Emma Byrne?) in goals and she was hopeless. They are so slow compared to men.

TBH I was actually shocked by how bad they were. To be fair though, they have a lot of skill but that's the only area they could compete with men.

The Irish ladies under 21 team isn't near one of the best women's teams in the world though so I'm not overly surprised, and they're not the sort of team I'm referring to.

I've no doubt that men's football is vastly superior generally but it's the "me and my mates who play Sunday league would beat the best women's team" attitude that I disagreed with.

You can throw in academy club teams or underage women's teams as examples but they're completely different to the original point I challenged so it's shifting the goalposts and makes it a different argument.

ush

yohan the great wrote: »

Ah when has Ronaldo acted the prick off the field? Ever?

Really?

Liam O

ush wrote: »

Really?

I'd like to hear your argument too. Male sure not to scrimp over the vast charity work and things he does for hos family.

Too Tough To Die

Didn't he pay the mother of his child to effectively never see her son again?

GreeBo

So for those who look down on women's football, and sports in general, do you think it is right that the most capped man gets a car, the most capped woman, with more caps then the man, gets ignored?

mufcboy1999

legend, some man for getting bites is our Zlatan:D.

Oranage2

GreeBo wrote: »

So for those who look down on women's football, and, sports in general, do yo think it is right that the most capped man gets a car, the most capped woman, with more caps then the man, gets ignored?

I don't look down on women's football or women participating in any sport, is it right for a man to get a car and not a women? Philosophically speaking it's not wrong!

mufcboy1999

I think womens football is like watching a group of lads playing with their weak foot, just awkward.

Chancer3001

I kind of agree with zlatan. Rewarded in line with the funds they generate.

I doubt the women's teams generate much money, apart from maybe the us one.

dor83

GreeBo wrote: »

So for those who look down on women's football, and sports in general, do you think it is right that the most capped man gets a car, the most capped woman, with more caps then the man, gets ignored?

I don't look down on women's football myself but put the skill debate to one side and look at the amount of money generated by the men's game compared to the amount generated by the women's game, that is the reason the man got a car and the woman didn't. Now if she got completely ignored and didn't get any sort of recognition then that was wrong, she should have been given something to recognise the achievement of what she did but if this is a case of people think she should have got a car too then I would disagree because they don't bring in anywhere near the same amount as the men's game.

Mars Bar

GreeBo wrote: »

So for those who look down on women's football, and sports in general, do you think it is right that the most capped man gets a car, the most capped woman, with more caps then the man, gets ignored?

It's not right that the most capped man gets a car anyway. He's a pro and can well afford his own car!

Professional female footballers could probably do with a little more help as they tend to juggle school and football. Niamh Fahey went part time with Arsenal for her job. Eniola Aluko is training to be a lawyer while also playing full time. Not that there is much choice in having to earn a a second living. No more than four women in any WSL team can earn more than £20,000 a year.

mufcboy1999

They also have to juggle their life's with the kitchen too arguably their most important purpose in life.

yohan the great

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Didn't he pay the mother of his child to effectively never see her son again?

Fairly sure I've seen him with his son

What?

Sir Gallagher

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

legend, some man for getting bites is our Zlatan:D.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

They also have to juggle their life's with the kitchen too arguably their most important purpose in life.

This is the level of humour that "Zlatan" inspires. Stephen Fry watch out.

weldoninhio

yohan the great wrote: »

Fairly sure I've seen him with his son

He bought his son. I don't understand some of the opinions on here, that the womens game needs more exposure etc. If a product is good enough it'll sell. Womens football is awful to watch. No amount of window-dressing is going to change that.

Its slower, less skillful, less exciting, and less exciting. Andreas Svennson getting a car for free was all about the publicity the car company would get from it. I'm sure it was all over the Swedish sports pages that X company had given him a free car for being the most capped player and people reading the sports section would read this and maybe consider getting this car when they needed a new one. No-one would care if the most capped Swedish woman got one.

If Zlatan signs a new contract with Nike/Adidas, will the best Swedish womens player demand one?? Its pathetic.

mufcboy1999

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

This is the level of humour that "Zlatan" inspires. Stephen Fry watch out.

Ah I'm just throwing out some bait for the ladies looking for a few bites, I can get away with it behind the computer :P.

Beasty

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Ah I'm just throwing out some bait for the ladies looking for a few bites, I can get away with it behind the computer :P.

OK, I'm stepping in as I'm not sure if the local mods are online

Trolling is not welcome - sexist trolling is even less so

Admitting to it in-thread really is looking for trouble.

Chancer3001

I agree with the idea that things will sell if they are interesting enough.

Ladies Soccer is not interesting enough at the moment. The interest isn't there.

titan18

If the women can't grow their own game and get people to want to watch it by themselves, I don't see why they should piggyback on others work. Fair enough publicise it, but they shouldn't be given a leg up just cos they're female. It'll end up with the same crap as tennis.

Chazz Michael Michaels

GreeBo wrote: »

Physicality doesn't win rugby matches any more than football matches, otherwise the islanders would be be best in the world.

Also, saying that women can't be quick enough run around men is just silly. Speed is speed, sure the world record is held by a man, but it's only 1s faster than the women's record.

How many metres behind would that leave the woman?

GreeBo

I'll answer that when you can tell me how fast the lads in your Sunday kickabout are and contrast it to the speed of professional ladies wingers.


I.e. it's irrelevant, you are comparing extremes

Seaneh

LSL is a "sunday league" standard.

A good LSL team would beat the best women's team in the world. A good LSL team would also beat the best u16 boys team in the world.

A really good LSL team will have a few players who would easily play LOI first division if they were pushed/got the chance.

764dak

Male soccer players and fans overly condemn female soccer.

There is a similar or bigger gap between men and women in other sports yet you never hear somebody say something like "Serena Williams is rubbish".

simongurnick

Seaneh wrote: »

LSL is a "sunday league" standard.

A good LSL team would beat the best women's team in the world. A good LSL team would also beat the best u16 boys team in the world.

A really good LSL team will have a few players who would easily play LOI first division if they were pushed/got the chance.

Not a chance man. Amateur men would not beat a professional womens team. I'd bet my house on it man.
I would have thought the same as you a few years ago but I've seen pro women play and they are far better than the LSL.

Owen_S

764dak wrote: »

Male soccer players and fans overly condemn female soccer.

There is a similar or bigger gap between men and women in other sports yet you never hear somebody say something like "Serena Williams is rubbish".

But in general, the fanbase of tennis is interested in both men and women's games. For football, that isn't the case.

Guy:Incognito

Seaneh wrote: »

LSL is a "sunday league" standard.

A good LSL team would beat the best women's team in the world. A good LSL team would also beat the best u16 boys team in the world.

A really good LSL team will have a few players who would easily play LOI first division if they were pushed/got the chance.

Considering the best u16 side in the world would have players ready to make the step up to premier league(insert whichever top flight league you like here) standard , I'd have to question how true most of that is. Remember a 16 year old Wayne Rooney v arsenal?