Martin : FF no longer toxic brand

Fr. Ned

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Yes, you did. And you will be hearing a lot more of the so-called 'retired' FF politicians who resigned in 2011 putting themselves forward again! Please god, do not make one of them Dermot Ahern!!

If any of the FFailed TD's from the last 3 FFail governments run for election it would be impossible to even consider voting for them.
They really are stupid if they think they can 'retire' with their pensions and stepping down payments and then come back 5 years later.
Have they no shame?

michael999999

Fr. Ned wrote: »

If any of the FFailed TD's from the last 3 FFail governments run for election it would be impossible to even consider voting for them.
They really are stupid if they think they can 'retire' with their pensions and stepping down payments and then come back 5 years later.
Have they no shame?

The gangsters and husslers of fianna fail don't know the meaning of shame!

Dannyboy83

Michael 'It was just resting in my wife's bank account' Martin




So did he ever manage to believably explain how Cork property developer Owen O’Callaghan's money ended up in his wife, Mary’s, bank account?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/election-2011/martin-no-impropriety-in-donations-from-developer-144327.html

In response, he provided a lengthy statement explaining that between 1989 and 1993 he had received political donations totalling £6,200 from Mr O’Callaghan.

One of these donations was £5,000, a portion of which was “cashed and applied for political expenditure” and the remainder — some £3,500 — lodged to Mr Martin’s wife Mary’s AIB account in Dublin in July 1991.

Later that same month, €2,550 was withdrawn from this account. Mr Martin told the tribunal in his statement: “I believe (it) was applied for political expenditure at that time.”

No longer toxic me hole

Fr. Ned

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Michael 'It was just resting in my wife's bank account' Martin




So did he ever manage to believably explain how Cork property developer Owen O’Callaghan's money ended up in his wife, Mary’s, bank account?



No longer toxic me hole

My brother, Fr.Ted, had a similar problem one time.........
RIP Dermot.

goose2005

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There are, in my view, two irelands. It is not easy to define them but there are certain characteristics that are generally relevant:

Rural/urban
Parochial/metropolitan
Tribal/citizen
Self interested / want the country as a whole to do well.

There are lots of cross overs and urban people can be just as parochial and self interested as rural people.

However, among the latter types FF are completely toxic and will never return to normality. On the other hand, among the hard core parish pumpers, FF did nothing wrong. This is why dublin has no sitting FF TDs but, as the parish pumpers and me feniers grow in dominance again, I suspect a few FF TDs will get through.

But for approximately 20% of Irish people, mostly older and mostly from outside dublin, they would sooner sacrifice their young than vote for someone other than FF.

So Martins message is really for those people who are closer to the latter group than the former, and the message is "at least hear us out". By the time of the next election, they will be saying "now that everything is forgiven, look how great we are".

I say no.

Also, a lot who would have voted FF in border/urban regions now vote SF. FF also get far fewer transfers than they used to.

BuilderPlumber

Fr. Ned wrote: »

If any of the FFailed TD's from the last 3 FFail governments run for election it would be impossible to even consider voting for them.
They really are stupid if they think they can 'retire' with their pensions and stepping down payments and then come back 5 years later.
Have they no shame?

We are unblessed with some of the worst politicians ever in this country. I'm pretty sure a whole lot of these supposedly retired FF politicians will be back. The only reason they 'retired' was to save face. They had become so unpopular.

You will see 'retirement' as an option for all currently unpopular politicians. Since the calibre of politician is so low across all parties, this will be all too common. They will thus make a comeback later when the tide turns to whatever party they belong to again.

For Forks Sake

raymon wrote: »

Indeed . We must also remember that most current Fianna Fail TDs and Senators were part of Foireann Bertie (Bertie's Team) in 2007. You will find it difficult to find the election literature now - most images have been deleted by Fianna Fail.

Bertie's boys still look toxic to me - all of them.

Here you go, lest we forget.

BuilderPlumber

gandalf wrote: »

I really hope the electorate remember it is Fianna Fail who shepherded us into this disaster and the fact that some of those who helped with the decisions (or was it inaction) are still around.

The fact that FF have a man as their current leader that sat at the cabinet table for 14 years shows that they are certainly far from detoxified.

What did Michael do at the cabinet table for those 14 years, was he an active participant in the decision making process or did he just sit there and "look pretty" smiling gormlessly at Bertie Ahern while he made a cuppa. Either way he is not fit to be a TD let alone consider himself an alternative leader of the next Government.

As for alternatives Sinn Fein certainly are not one of them. They are shaping up nicely as a new FF showing their hypocrisy with the populist fantasy economics that they spout in opposition down here with the vicious cuts that they have enacted when they are actually in Government in Northern Ireland.

Micheal Martin is anything but detoxified. He presided over years of corruption and inequality and was a member of a Bertie Ahern government that was the most corrupt in our history.

The current government is overall poor (I rank them as equal to Brian Cowen lead FF and better than Bertie lead FF) and have only continued the elitism that Bertie Ahern introduced into Irish politics (in comparison to today, 1980s politics in Ireland looks surprisingly good! And that is something to say as that included Charlie Haughey!).

As for alternatives: Enda Kenny/Eamon Gilmore v Micheal Martin. Overall, not much of a choice. SF I would not trust either. They have as said by you enacted the same old unfair cutbacks in government in Northern Ireland. They would do the same here.

Ireland badly needs good, honest, kind politicians who care about their people. We deserve far more than Enda Kenny praising himself and grandstanding in speeches on TV. Some of the realities in Ireland since the current administration took power that should not even exist:

-Unemployment is unacceptably high across all sectors. Government policy like amalgamating councils, VECs, hospitals, etc. and downscaling FAS have all resulted in the loss of countless ordinary jobs and NOT elitist jobs at the top. Sickening. And this government is far worse than FF and sell this as 'reform'.
-The whole rural landscape has seemingly ground to a halt in many areas. Shops and pubs closing, post offices closing, shops and pubs often empty. This trend has worsened drastically since the current regime took office.
-In a country with too much houses per head of population, there are still homeless people.
-Emigration remains often the first choice of many, who do not even consider a future in Ireland. Australia's, USA's, UK's, etc. gain, Ireland's loss.
-Politicians, top civil servants, top bankers, government consultants, Ryan Tubridy, etc. all remain overpaid and on obscene money while others remain lowly paid or unemployed.
-Taxes have increased drastically, while services have often been diminished. There is no evidence to say where the money has been spent.
-Crime has spiralled out of control in many areas with robberies a fact of life for many. Yet, our police force as cut back and remain unarmed.

These are some of the problems that have worsened under the current regime and that have been developing for years. Yet, none of our politicians seem interested in solving any of these and making this country a caring and decent society. Kenny's FG v Martin's FF? 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. I can only see things get worse if either one is voted in in 2016. SF will only be FF mark 2.

There is room for a new, moderate, caring, progressive party that sides with the people against elitism. That is something we don't have in Ireland. Idealism is much needed in Irish politics but out current leaders are talentless, dull, bought and paid for and ultimately untrustworthy. Anyone who fought and died for Ireland thinking that corruption was a British trait were fools. Would they have bothered if they could only see what we have now?

raymon

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Here you go, lest we forget.

Thanks for that For Forkes.

Berties team have amnesia. These type of artefacts might help them remember .

BuilderPlumber

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Here you go, lest we forget.

And to think that was a boast to be part of Bertie's team!

um7y1h83ge06nx

Being frank I wouldn't vote for FF now as I see them as anti-Irish and a threat to our people and our country.

As a 30 year old I have a very dim view of FF of course, maybe older people have some more positive memories of them.

Unless FF really turn things around I can't see myself voting for them in the future, it would feel like I was betraying my country.

I guess I feel the same way about any organisation that I believe have hurt our people and our country, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church would fall into the same category.

[Jackass]

FF are not toxic and never were.

The absolute tribal nature of Irish politics means they never will be either.

Michael Martin will be the next Taoiseach and will probably go into Government with Sin Fein to achieve it, and the land will rejoice.

As absolutely appalling as that all sounds, I fear it will probably be the case.

I think FG got in on FF "damage control" votes as much as they did on an actual revolt against the FF party.

IrishProd

[Jackass] wrote: »

FF are not toxic and never were.

LMAO.

(Apt username)

raymon

[Jackass] wrote: »

FF are not toxic and never were.

The absolute tribal nature of Irish politics means they never will be either.

Michael Martin will be the next Taoiseach and will probably go into Government with Sin Fein to achieve it, and the land will rejoice.

As absolutely appalling as that all sounds, I fear it will probably be the case.

I think FG got in on FF "damage control" votes as much as they did on an actual revolt against the FF party.

I must disagree with everything you said above

FF disgust most people.

Most people are not involved in tribal politics.

Michael Martin will never be Taoiseach.

grainnewhale

raymon wrote: »

I must disagree with everything you said above

FF disgust most people.

Most people are not involved in tribal politics.

Michael Martin will never be Taoiseach.

You really need to get over this. Don't let your obsession eat you up. History has proven that there will be another f.f government. Don't take it so bad. Given that the options or f.f or f.g and there is no discernible difference, unless you are a member of either, then it will have no effect on your life.

um7y1h83ge06nx

But the choice of who is in government must affect the lives of people otherwise you are saying that the government don't have any influence on a countries direction.

Maybe you are right and the power really lies with senior civil servants. Although that undermines the whole idea of democracy in Ireland so I hope you're wrong.

Or maybe what you're saying is a good excuse to absolve any political party of their wrongs, whether it's FF or anyone else.

[Jackass]

IrishProd wrote: »

LMAO.

(Apt username)

Wow, relax. I'm not sure you understand my post. I'm not advocating it, merely pointing out a sad reality.

I think people are grossly overestimating the sincere disgust towards Fianna Fail and I think you're giving the Irish electorate far too much credit if you say they're anything but tribal.

grainnewhale

Juliette Angry Starch wrote: »

But the choice of who is in government must affect the lives of people otherwise you are saying that the government don't have any influence on a countries direction.

Maybe you are right and the power really lies with senior civil servants. Although that undermines the whole idea of democracy in Ireland so I hope you're wrong.

Or maybe what you're saying is a good excuse to absolve any political party of their wrongs, whether it's FF or anyone else.

my point is that if you didn't know who was in government. Then you would have no way of telling from your daily slog. Regardless of who is in government those in the private sector will always be shafted. Given that the only difference in f.f and f.g policies is when they are in opposition. we will never have a different direction until s.f get into power.

eigrod

grainnewhale wrote: »

Regardless of who is in government those in the private sector will always be shafted.

You really believe that ? You really believe that the horse racing industry, the betting industry, landowners, landlords and countless others got shafted under FF ? Incredible if you do.

raymon

grainnewhale wrote: »

You really need to get over this. Don't let your obsession eat you up. History has proven that there will be another f.f government. Don't take it so bad. Given that the options or f.f or f.g and there is no discernible difference, unless you are a member of either, then it will have no effect on your life.

No obsession here , thanks. Just don't like to see dodgy politicians getting away with it.

Thanks for your great input to the discussion.

grainnewhale

raymon wrote: »

No obsession here , thanks. Just don't like to see dodgy politicians getting away with it.

Thanks for your great input to the discussion.

You should have a read through your own input. Your ability to analyse, your well thought out and constructive arguments and impartial insights are truly mesmerising.

BuilderPlumber

Juliette Angry Starch wrote: »

Being frank I wouldn't vote for FF now as I see them as anti-Irish and a threat to our people and our country.

As a 30 year old I have a very dim view of FF of course, maybe older people have some more positive memories of them.

Unless FF really turn things around I can't see myself voting for them in the future, it would feel like I was betraying my country.

I guess I feel the same way about any organisation that I believe have hurt our people and our country, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church would fall into the same category.

I would not vote for any of the current Irish parties under their present 'leaders'. All fake promises and only serve to protect elites. While there hasn't been a truly great Irish government for decades, the governments of recent times have really taken the mick.

Bertie clearly was the worst thing to ever happen FF and possibly Ireland. His insatiable appetite for power along with his crooked ways of doing so were initially camouflaged by his peace process achievements and ability to unite the party (FF was divided for years between pro and anti Haughey people: what does Bertie do? Give them all more money hence the increase in TDs salaries and they are all onside!). But between 1997 and 1999, the Irish economy was doing well. The Celtic Tiger. Maybe, just maybe, Irish corruption was gone?

But, 2000 saw the collapse of the IT sector and disaster for Ireland's MNC dominated economy. A forgotten recession took hold around this time (Foot and Mouth would not help either in 2001 and then 9/11) but nevertheless, the people never took it out on Bertie. Afterall, in post IT, pre building Ireland of 2002, Bertie got back! And the Irish economy took off like mad! Anything from 1994-1999 was a picnic compared to what we were to see from 2003 to 2008!! Building, property portfolios, rent, retail, and all the professional and educational services to go with it sprung up. Ireland was made! The second richest country in the world. We would never see dark days like the 1920s-1950s, 1970s-1993 or 2000-2002 ever again! The Irish economy was now Built in Ireland!

However, look at the world at the same time for answers: 9/11 followed up by that madman in the white house at the time was preparing to invade lots of countries and got bogged down in Iraq thus ensuring that the US economy was going to crash violently. Terrorism all over the place. Japan still struggling. The EU was poorly too. Buffoons taking control of Iran in 2005 and remaining in power until 2013. Wars everywhere. Dear oil caused by all the trouble. Reckless lending, corrupt laundering, cooking the books ...

Ireland's economy was built on a house of sand and came crashing down in 2008. The intention since then was to protect the elite and their assets to the detriment of the people. Ahern got out in 2007 knowing his 'dream' was fake!

FF deserve what they got in 2011 election without a doubt. But our current government are just as bad. They were voted in on a promise of reversing the unfair cutbacks and unjust elitist policies. Yet, they have implemented many policies such as hospital and VEC amalgamations, the abolition of FAS, the merging of different councils, etc. that ALL have resulted in the loss of ordinary jobs. Who asked for this cr@p? Who would have voted for this regime if they said they were going to implement such policies? No one. What makes this government even worse is that they regard this as reform!

The current government are 100% illegitimate as they are implementing policies counter to what the people elected them for. Since they are still in power against what the people want, Ireland is a dictatorship. The current government has that distinction on Bertie: Bertie was elected because at first he delivered. This crowd promised a fairer country but have caused more hurt and pain while living lavishly. Ireland is a country where doctors, teachers, lecturers, businessmen, skilled tradespeople, etc. are the ones who are homeless because the regime has taken away their jobs. Yet, our TDs continue to keep all the perks Bertie introduced!

Irish politics is very seriously ill at present. Our leaders do not care about their people. As long as FG, FF, and Labour are lead by Kenny, Martin and Gilmore, they are ALL toxic muck that would make their late founders turn in their grave. SF are not the thing either and the indos are just fodder. God save Ireland from the anti-heroes!!

grainnewhale

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

. Ireland is a country where doctors, teachers, lecturers, businessmen, skilled tradespeople, etc. are the ones who are homeless because the regime has taken away their jobs. Yet, our TDs continue to keep all the perks Bertie introduced!

Irish politics is very seriously ill at present. Our leaders do not care about their people. As long as FG, FF, and Labour are lead by Kenny, Martin and Gilmore, they are ALL toxic muck that would make their late founders turn in their grave. SF are not the thing either and the indos are just fodder. God save Ireland from the anti-heroes!!

Is this bit a joke or sarcasm.

BuilderPlumber

grainnewhale wrote: »

Is this bit a joke or sarcasm.

It is not a joke or sarcasm! It is unfortunately fact! A lot of professionals and business people suffered very badly and ended up homeless. Not every homeless person is an uneducated lifelong wino you know!! More often than not, they fell into being homeless because they lost their job and have massive debts due to mortgages.

A lot of people don't realise the awful situation for some in Ireland. I see homeless people here in Cork every day and some are the typical winos and others definitely are not. More turn into winos because of what has happened here.

Our politicians deserve to be homeless and I'd love to see one of them on the streets. No, 1000 of them! But if they lose their job, they get another on some board! Sickening.

grainnewhale

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is not a joke or sarcasm! It is unfortunately fact! A lot of professionals and business people suffered very badly and ended up homeless. Not every homeless person is an uneducated lifelong wino you know!! More often than not, they fell into being homeless because they lost their job and have massive debts due to mortgages.

A lot of people don't realise the awful situation for some in Ireland. I see homeless people here in Cork every day and some are the typical winos and others definitely are not. More turn into winos becauSse of what has happened here.

Our politicians deserve to be homeless and I'd love to see one of them on the streets. No, 1000 of them! But if they lose their job, they get another on some board! Sickening.

So you are standing by your claim, that there are doctors, teachers and lecturers sleeping rough.

BuilderPlumber

grainnewhale wrote: »

So you are standing by your claim, that there are doctors, teachers and lecturers sleeping rough.

Yes, of course there are!! They were these professions and lost their jobs because of Kenny and co's insane policies. Homelessness does not recognise how educated, intelligent or successful a person was and this and recent governments don't appreciate anybody. Poverty likewise is not just for the unintelligent or those from council estates. Indeed, those in council estates are not all just druggies, etc. They are often intelligent, very well educated people who have fallen on hard times because of what the likes of politicians at home and abroad (Bush and his Iraq war/subprime mortgage fiascos) have done to the country and world.

Watch the ad with the guy who plays Damian in Fair City. That puts homelessness on the map. It is not just faceless, nameless winos! Everyone from a low level drug dealer to a brain surgeon can be homeless. It is like heart disease or cancer: it does not select who should and should not be homeless. However, our government has the power to get rid of policies that cause issues like homelessness. Our government are worse than useless and through either incompetence or corruption or laziness or just that they don't even realise what is going on in reality they have failed our people. FF. FG. Labour. All the same. SF? Not tried yet, put more than likely the same. Irish politics seems to be a front for avarice and legalised robbery from the people who the likes of Kenny and Martin would spit on.

kumate_champ07

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Irish politics is general is still toxic and I don't believe I'm being cynical in saying that.

I will vote for Fine Gael again, simply because there is no alternative

dont vote at all

michael999999

So Mary Hanafin was on Newstalk this morning, putting her hat in for the next general election.

It seems all the Fianna fail rats are scurrying out of there nests!

The party will never change!

BuilderPlumber

michael999999 wrote: »

So Mary Hanafin was on Newstalk this morning, putting her hat in for the next general election.

It seems all the Fianna fail rats are scurrying out of there nests!

The party will never change!

Of course they all will and they will have all the answers while in opposition. Then, they'll enter government and continue on the same useless policies. Enda Kenny lead FG and Mehole Martin lead FF are two sides of the same corrupt, dictatorship coin and the electorate deserve better than these greedy, mean, selfish, ungodly politicians who only care about themselves.

BuilderPlumber

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

dont vote at all

No Irish party with the current leaders deserves our vote. FF is lead by Martin, a man steeped in Bertie's corruption. FG is lead by Enda Kenny, who decided to go down a very poor choice of road since coming to power in 2011 (he was handed a golden opportunity to truly be our greatest leader and instead squandered it and once again decided to be a dictator on the side of corruption). Labour is the same. SF has a leader who may be involved in some very horrible crimes.

FG, SF, FF and Labour may well get someone decent leading them someday but not in the foreseeable. That's for sure.

grainnewhale

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

No Irish party with the current leaders deserves our vote. FF is lead by Martin, a man steeped in Bertie's corruption. FG is lead by Enda Kenny, who decided to go down a very poor choice of road since coming to power in 2011 (he was handed a golden opportunity to truly be our greatest leader and instead squandered it and once again decided to be a dictator on the side of corruption). Labour is the same. SF has a leader who may be involved in some very horrible crimes.

FG, SF, FF and Labour may well get someone decent leading them someday but not in the foreseeable. That's for sure.

s.f is led by somebody who put his country before his own personal safety.he put his life on the line for his country and stood up to the bullies. name one other party leader whp would be prepared to do this.

michael999999

grainnewhale wrote: »

s.f is led by somebody who put his country before his own personal safety.he put his life on the line for his country and stood up to the bullies. name one other party leader whp would be prepared to do this.

In fairness to Michael martin, he did put all that developers cash in he's wife's account.

That was self sacrificing!

Skrynesaver

grainnewhale wrote: »

s.f is led by somebody who put his country before his own personal safety.he put his life on the line for his country and stood up to the bullies. name one other party leader whp would be prepared to do this.

Curiously consensus says that the best Taoiseach we had was Lemas, a gunman in his day and a genuine patriot who wished the best for the country, with some success.

Until the mohair suits got in it does appear the generation of gunmen did at least care and had a motivation other than personal advancement...

BuilderPlumber

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Curiously consensus says that the best Taoiseach we had was Lemas, a gunman in his day and a genuine patriot who wished the best for the country, with some success.

Until the mohair suits got in it does appear the generation of gunmen did at least care and had a motivation other than personal advancement...

Yes, he was our best Taoiseach and he cared about what he was doing. The values of the OLD IRA are gallant and noble and, while attrocities happened in those early wars and there were bad among the old IRA too, the values of good old IRA people like Lemass is what allowed Ireland to progress.

johnnyskeleton

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

No Irish party with the current leaders deserves our vote. FF is lead by Martin, a man steeped in Bertie's corruption. FG is lead by Enda Kenny, who decided to go down a very poor choice of road since coming to power in 2011 (he was handed a golden opportunity to truly be our greatest leader and instead squandered it and once again decided to be a dictator on the side of corruption). Labour is the same. SF has a leader who may be involved in some very horrible crimes.

FG, SF, FF and Labour may well get someone decent leading them someday but not in the foreseeable. That's for sure.

When FG/Lab came to power , the troika was already in place and our destiny was fixed. If you want to judge them, look at what they do between now and the next election.

My view is that while the current government may be bad, we are still transitioning from ff style politics to less corrupt politics. Once we remove ff from our political landscape, the other parties will start to improve (hopefully)

michael999999

Said on the news this morning that some very important documents to do with the banking enquiry have gone missing.

It seems Fianna fail are really covering there tracks!

BuilderPlumber

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

When FG/Lab came to power , the troika was already in place and our destiny was fixed. If you want to judge them, look at what they do between now and the next election.

My view is that while the current government may be bad, we are still transitioning from ff style politics to less corrupt politics. Once we remove ff from our political landscape, the other parties will start to improve (hopefully)

Whether or not the troika has exited too early or not, one good point from now on is that our current government can no longer implement unpopular/wrong policies and shift the blame to the troika. They are from now on 100% responsible for their decisions (just like always: the troika never had to power to decide where to cut) and hopefully this will be an incentive for them to move away from dictatorship and embrace a more democratic and caring model.

Reverse the hospital, VEC, FAS, etc. cutbacks and re-employ all those ORDINARY workers who lost their jobs. Then, pension off all the overpaid elite (who have more than enough money and investments to live comfortably) and create more and more opportunities. Also, create a proper environment for the development of an entrepreneurial private sector that can thrive based on real and not pipe dream ideas. Any government who can do this has my vote.

I can never see FF totally gone but what I would hope is that FF Will be lead by less toxic people and hopefully this will influence Irish politics for the better. Either way, Kenny or Martin do not deserve to be Toaiseach. The people deserve better alternatives and FF and FG surely have more talent than that. If both parties are serious about reform any time soon, they have to get rid of anyone tainted with corruption/cutbacks/austerity/false promises. Otherwise, the trust between electorate and government will remain very poor.

gandalf

grainnewhale wrote: »

s.f is led by somebody who put his country before his own personal safety.he put his life on the line for his country and stood up to the bullies. name one other party leader whp would be prepared to do this.

Sorry have to respond to this. The current leader of SF would be the most unsuitable person to lead this country. Whilst the other leaders have sins to confess to at least they do not have their hands drenched in blood from directly being responsible for murder. Adams does. He also was a parachuted candidate in Louth and initially seemed completely clueless about Politics down south of the border. He has questions to answer about his brothers child abuse of his niece. Maybe after he and all those directly involved in terrorist activities fade into the background then SF might become a viable option for the general population. Then again they have said one thing down here but have readily jumped onto the austerity bandwagon up in Northern Ireland so maybe we are looking at the party who will be taking Fianna Fails mantle in all ways as well

Going back on topic. Whilst I am not a major fan of this current Government we have to look at them in several different contexts. They inherited a complete and utter shambles from the previous monkeys (Michael saw no evil, heard no evil and spoke on evil in his 14 years at the cabinet table apparently!), we were already in the clutches of the troika by the time they took power so in reality they had to continue along the path that the FF led Government had already capitulated to. We also have a coalition Government which means that they will be less effective given the two different sets of agendas and policies in the parties. I really find it hard to comprehend that people do not realise that when a party is in coalition that compromises will have to occur. I believe that they have done a average job so far but have an awful lot more to achieve, they are certainly a major improvement on the FF led Governments that surrendered our financial sovereignty.

From my perspective and given the recent noises coming from Hanafin and Coughlin it looks like FF are just as toxic as before and are ready to continue along the same vein that led us to disaster. I am already seeing stories in the press and hearing directly from people involved in construction of the FF supporting developers starting to stoke the property fire again in the Dublin area. Think about this before you vote for FF or mini FF (SF) at the next elections.

As for the argument that this Government should be creating jobs in the PS area that is rubbish as well. If this Government want to reduce the dole queues it needs to bring the cost of public services down for businesses and allow the SME sector of this country to flourish. This is the only way you will make a major dent into the over four hundred thousand out of work at the moment.

FF should never be forgiven for the complete mess they made of our country whilst they were in power and remember its not the first time that they have nearly destroyed this country financially. Again like SF and their murderers if they at least dropped all those associated with the previous Governments failed stewardship of the country then people could contemplate that they had turned a corner but given that some of the rats are crawling back out from the rocks they scurried under when the going got tough then I think we know what kind of organisation they are. One that is extremely toxic to the well being of the citizens of this country.

grainnewhale

gandalf wrote: »

Sorry have to respond to this. The current leader of SF would be the most unsuitable person to lead this country. Whilst the other leaders have sins to confess to at least they do not have their hands drenched in blood from directly being responsible for murder. Adams does. He also was a parachuted candidate in Louth and initially seemed completely clueless about Politics down south of the border. He has questions to answer about his brothers child abuse of his niece. Maybe after he and all those directly involved in terrorist activities fade into the background then SF might become a viable option for the general population. Then again they have said one thing down here but have readily jumped onto the austerity bandwagon up in Northern Ireland so maybe we are looking at the party who will be taking Fianna Fails mantle in all ways as well

Going back on topic. Whilst I am not a major fan of this current Government we have to look at them in several different contexts. They inherited a complete and utter shambles from the previous monkeys (Michael saw no evil, heard no evil and spoke on evil in his 14 years at the cabinet table apparently!), we were already in the clutches of the troika by the time they took power so in reality they had to continue along the path that the FF led Government had already capitulated to. We also have a coalition Government which means that they will be less effective given the two different sets of agendas and policies in the parties. I really find it hard to comprehend that people do not realise that when a party is in coalition that compromises will have to occur. I believe that they have done a average job so far but have an awful lot more to achieve, they are certainly a major improvement on the FF led Governments that surrendered our financial sovereignty.

From my perspective and given the recent noises coming from Hanafin and Coughlin it looks like FF are just as toxic as before and are ready to continue along the same vein that led us to disaster. I am already seeing stories in the press and hearing directly from people involved in construction of the FF supporting developers starting to stoke the property fire again in the Dublin area. Think about this before you vote for FF or mini FF (SF) at the next elections.

As for the argument that this Government should be creating jobs in the PS area that is rubbish as well. If this Government want to reduce the dole queues it needs to bring the cost of public services down for businesses and allow the SME sector of this country to flourish. This is the only way you will make a major dent into the over four hundred thousand out of work at the moment.

FF should never be forgiven for the complete mess they made of our country whilst they we in power and remember its not the first time that they have nearly destroyed this country financially. Again like SF and their murderers if they at least dropped all those associated with the previous Governments failed stewardship of the country then people could contemplate that they had turned a corner but given that some of the rats are crawling back out from the rocks they scurried under when the going got tough then I think we know what kind of organisation they are. One that is extremely toxic to the well being of the citizens of this country.

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

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grainnewhale wrote: »

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

I'm not particularly anti republican but I am anti parties who have no concrete fiscal policies. IF Adams and co want to be taken seriously they need to back off on the well worn slogans and start showing some actual substance.

raymon

grainnewhale wrote: »

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

That's very disrespectful. Gandalf took time to answer your post in a well thought out fashion, and you reply by calling him a blueshirt.

gandalf

grainnewhale wrote: »

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

You didn't even bother to read it yet you have me labelled me already! LOL!! By the way you are totally off the mark calling me a blueshirt :rolleyes:

BTW the first paragraph dealt with SF, the rest dealt with the topic at hand the toxic party that is Fianna Fail.

SF are far from growing, I would say they are stagnating in support especially as they are being complete and utter hypocrites with their jumping on the cross and protesting every cut here in the South contrasted with the zeal in which they have swung the axe up in Northern Ireland. A lot of people are seeing them for what they are now which is a populist party just like FF and who will more than likely try and fill their boots. Couple that with the "heroes" as you call them still in the party then they will find it hard to grow in the near future.

Augmerson

They are all pretty much the same to me. Either completely corrupt or totally self-serving.

michael999999

gandalf wrote: »

You didn't even bother to read it yet you have me labelled me already! LOL!! By the way you are totally off the mark calling me a blueshirt :rolleyes:

BTW the first paragraph dealt with SF, the rest dealt with the topic at hand the toxic party that is Fianna Fail.

SF are far from growing, I would say they are stagnating in support especially as they are being complete and utter hypocrites with their jumping on the cross and protesting every cut here in the South contrasted with the zeal in which they have swung the axe up in Northern Ireland. A lot of people are seeing them for what they are now which is a populist party just like FF and who will more than likely try and fill their boots. Couple that with the "heroes" as you call them still in the party then they will find it hard to grow in the near future.

Paddy power/red sea poll during the week had sinn feins support rising three points. So I don't know exactly where your getting your facts from.

Or maybe your just deliberately derailing the thread?

gandalf

michael999999 wrote: »

Paddy power/red sea poll during the week had sinn feins support rising three points. So I don't know exactly where your getting your facts from.

Or maybe your just deliberately derailing the thread?

I'm responding to earlier posts by grainnewhale so I am hardly the one derailing the thread.

Polls have them going up and down like a whores knickers but one thing to bear in mind is that they normally don't do as well as polls suggest because of their transfer toxicity, like in the last general election where they got 14 seats but were being projected to take 20 according to some polls.

michael999999

gandalf wrote: »

I'm responding to earlier posts by grainnewhale so I am hardly the one derailing the thread.

Polls have them going up and down like a whores knickers but one thing to bear in mind is that they normally don't do as well as polls suggest because of their transfer toxicity, like in the last general election where they got 14 seats but were being projected to take 20 according to some polls.

Grainne likes to derail any thread that criticises her beloved Fianna fail. Some people just can't see them for the crooks they are.

Also the government set up in northern Ireland is totally different to that in the south. So saying they done one thing up there and another thing down south isn't really comparable.

gandalf

But actions speak louder than words Michael

K-9

grainnewhale wrote: »

what a long post didn't read it. I am going to guess it goes along the lines of the usual anti republican ****e, to be expected from blueshirts. It must be hard to take that s.f are growing bigger and stronger every day.

Mod:

Poster is permabanned now because these seem to be the type of posts they "contribute" to the forum.

kumate_champ07

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

No Irish party with the current leaders deserves our vote. FF is lead by Martin, a man steeped in Bertie's corruption. FG is lead by Enda Kenny, who decided to go down a very poor choice of road since coming to power in 2011 (he was handed a golden opportunity to truly be our greatest leader and instead squandered it and once again decided to be a dictator on the side of corruption). Labour is the same. SF has a leader who may be involved in some very horrible crimes.

FG, SF, FF and Labour may well get someone decent leading them someday but not in the foreseeable. That's for sure.

wouldnt call all of it crimes, but Im against murdering civillians, especially the bombing campaigns. they dont have a clear viable economic plan imo

its not too long ago that the other parties had blood on their hands, our little republic is still very much new


Its my right to choose not to vote, Ill vote when someone deserves it, I just wish more people would realise this. you can say more with with an empty ballot paper, the more of them the louder the msg

raymon

In the last redc poll it is bad news for Michael and the rest of FF

FF are quite unpopular amongst young people across Ireland , with only 15% support amongst 18-34 age group.

Also quite unpopular in the Dublin area at 14%.

In addition , Michael Martins own popularity has dropped by 2% to a lowly 33%.

http://www.redcresearch.ie/news/paddy-power-poll-jan-2014

Looks toxic to me Michael