Ryanair - New reserved seating structure(s)

Haithabu

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

The way some people are going on, you'd swear they were being forced to hang onto the wings. :pac:

It's a seat. If you crave sitting beside your travel companions, then pay the few quid. If you're happy to sit where then keep it. It'll buy you a pint

What's not right is that they deliberately cause inconvenience so you pay for not having the inconvenience. Yes, it's a seat but for Ryanair it's no hassle or extra costs to have two people sitting together. The system can easily do that.

Imagine you go into a restaurant with your family and they put you on different tables unless you pay a fiver each. Would you still be happy ?

MOH

Haithabu wrote: »

What's not right is that they deliberately cause inconvenience so you pay for not having the inconvenience. Yes, it's a seat but for Ryanair it's no hassle or extra costs to have two people sitting together. The system can easily do that.

Imagine you go into a restaurant with your family and they put you on different tables unless you pay a fiver each. Would you still be happy ?

If the restaurant had a policy of charging a fee for pre-bookings, and you walked into a restaurant without bothering to book ahead, would you expect them to seat your family at the same table?

It's causing them hassle because people keep not bothering to book seats and chancing it, then turning up and insisting they have to sit beside their child/elderly relative/sick wife and expecting the crew to sort it out.

Haithabu

MOH wrote: »

If the restaurant had a policy of charging a fee for pre-bookings, and you walked into a restaurant without bothering to book ahead, would you expect them to seat your family at the same table?

It's causing them hassle because people keep not bothering to book seats and chancing it, then turning up and insisting they have to sit beside their child/elderly relative/sick wife and expecting the crew to sort it out.

For "pre-booking" Ryanair also charges but that is a different charge. 4 days prior to your travel you can check-in for free. If it's more than that you have to pay for that as well or pay for check-in at the airport.

The seat charge is a different matter. The system randomly assigns two seats away from each other. It used to assign two seats next two each other if you have one booking and check in at the same time. Now it assigns two seats in different rows and then displays a plane with empty sreats next to each other asking you to pay if you want them.

I had this right now. It assigned row 10 and row 31 to us and then displays a plane picture where you have empty seats and can pay for them. After I said "no thanks" it even popped up a message "you are sitting 21 rows from each other, would you like to sit together ?"

As for the restaurant example, they don't charge at all if you make a reservation for 2 or 4 people. And it's unheard of that they would say that if you want to sit at the same table you have to pay an extra fee for everyone - otherwise they deliberately separate you. And that is what Ryanair does now. There are seats next to each other and they deliberately not give them to you. The system is well able to assign two seats besides each other at no extra costs for Ryanair. But they deliberately don't do that now. This inconvenience is caused deliberately in order to have people paying for not having te inconvenience.

What is next ? You might have to be at the airport 5 hours earlier and they lock you in a room with no chairs and no windows. But if you pay 10 Euro extra you can come just for boarding like you do now ? Would you still be happy because you have the option to "pay a few quid".

MOH

Haithabu wrote: »

As for the restaurant example, they don't charge at all if you make a reservation for 2 or 4 people. And it's unheard of that they would say that if you want to sit at the same table you have to pay an extra fee for everyone - otherwise they deliberately separate you. And that is what Ryanair does now. There are seats next to each other and they deliberately not give them to you. The system is well able to assign two seats besides each other at no extra costs for Ryanair. But they deliberately don't do that now. This inconvenience is caused deliberately in order to have people paying for not having te inconvenience.

What is next ? You might have to be at the airport 5 hours earlier and they lock you in a room with no chairs and no windows. But if you pay 10 Euro extra you can come just for boarding like you do now ? Would you still be happy because you have the option to "pay a few quid".

The analogy with a restaurant doesn't work because it's a completely different industry.

Yes, they're increasing their revenue. In a perfectly reasonable way. They always offered guaranteed adjacent seats, at a price. They never guaranteed seats together if you didn't pay for that, but people took it for granted that they'd get them anyway. And if they didn't, a lot of people kicked up blue murder if they didn't get something they felt entitled to which they'd never been promised.

They've now solved that problem my making it perfectly clear that you probably won't get seats together unless you pay for them. Nothing's been taken away, it's not a new charge, it's maximising the revenue out of a charge that has always been there, for something optional.

The alternative, as has been suggested a few times, would be to stick an extra fiver onto every ticket. But then that means the people who actually don't care if they sit together or not end up paying more, to subsidise those who want something extra but aren't prepared to pay for it. The other alternative would be to do that, but offer a discount option for those who don't care about their seating arrangement. But then people wold still be moaning, so that wouldn't help.

They hysteria and hyperbole is quite hilarious. It's exactly the same as when they started charging for hold baggage. People who weren't bothered about checking in a bag were happy enough not to do so, others whinged and moaned and threatened the world would end and the airline would go bust and none of that ever happened.

It's not a restaurant,it's not a charity, it's a bare bones airline where your basic payment entitles you to be on a tin can for a few hours, and nothing more. Everything else is extra. Frankly, the more prices are separated out into extras, the better, because that way you pay for exactly the elements you want, and nothing extra. While those who want extras pay more and help stop the base price rising.

dermiestv

They hysteria and hyperbole is quite hilarious

Seems to me the attempts to defend this company - who clearly changed their business practices to sneak an extra charge on people who didn't have to pay it before, and then deny that they've made any change - are hysterical and hilarious.

Whatever about the debatable rights and wrongs or affordability of the charge, the company behaviour is cynical and dishonest and has been called out as such by media all over Europe.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Collie D

Fred Swanson wrote: »

And people will continue to fly with them, nothing will change.

Personally, I see this as a master stroke on the part of Ryanair.

Until they row back on it due to falling revenues on sales from the drink trolley. People are a lot more likely to buy a round of drinks for themselves and their travel companions if they're actually seated together rather than at opposite ends of the plane. I'd say there's a lot more profit in selling a small can of beer for a fiver than charging for a certain seat.

Haithabu

MOH wrote: »

The analogy with a restaurant doesn't work because it's a completely different industry.

It still works as an example, even if it is a different industry because it is the same scenario. I want to go to the restaurant with someone and I want to go on holidays with someone. But if I am deliberately separated with the intention that I pay to be together it's not right. I am deliberately put into an inconvenience with the intention that I pay to have the inconvenience mended. If it would be cheaper for Ryanair to have couples/friends/families sitting randomly across the plane one could understand this but that is not the case. Ryanair always charged for extras but what is new here is that extra inconvenience is caused and you pay for not having the inconvenience.

MOH wrote: »

Yes, they're increasing their revenue. In a perfectly reasonable way. They always offered guaranteed adjacent seats, at a price. They never guaranteed seats together if you didn't pay for that, but people took it for granted that they'd get them anyway.

Of course I take it for granted that I can sit together with whoever I go on holidays. I don't consider that luxury or add-on or extra. And that I had this before is not down to the Airline going the extra mile in terms of customer service and arranging it for me but because that is something that should be be taken for granted.

MOH wrote: »

They've now solved that problem my making it perfectly clear that you probably won't get seats together unless you pay for them. Nothing's been taken away, it's not a new charge, it's maximising the revenue out of a charge that has always been there, for something optional.

Ryanair has denied it's for maximising revenue. And of course it's taken away because before we had it and now we don't.

MOH wrote: »

But then that means the people who actually don't care if they sit together or not end up paying more, to subsidise those who want something extra but aren't prepared to pay for it.

As said, they denied it. It would be thin ice anyway as regulations say prices must be transparent. That is why they are legally not allowed to post a low fare first and only later - before paying - they add airport tax etc.

MOH wrote: »

They hysteria and hyperbole is quite hilarious. It's exactly the same as when they started charging for hold baggage.

That analogy won't work. For handling hold luggage Ryanair actually has more expenses. For assigning two seats next to each other Ryanair has no extra expenses.

MOH wrote: »

It's not a restaurant,it's not a charity, it's a bare bones airline where your basic payment entitles you to be on a tin can for a few hours, and nothing more. Everything else is extra. Frankly, the more prices are separated out into extras, the better, because that way you pay for exactly the elements you want, and nothing extra. While those who want extras pay more and help stop the base price rising.

Imagine additionally to the priority and non-priority Qs they next introduce a third queue. One where you have to walk two kilometers outside on the tarmac and then two kilometers back to end up exactly where you were before. And then they say for an extra 10 EUR you can skip that Q. Would you still be okay with that ?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Haithabu

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Someone had a new idea of sqeezeing out more money out of passengers without having to include it into the initial price tag offered on the website. They probably calculated extra revenue here vs less revenue from food/drinks. They will also have more hassle by people trying to swap seats before takeoff and that will be in their calculation.

There is also a certain degree of causing an outrage with the intention to get media attention.

If under the line that is a winner I don't know. I personally don't see this to last but Ryanair will have calculated this.

We'll see how it goes. I'd say it will be crapped at some stage. There might be an emergency landing and someone gets hurt in an evacuation because the partner was at a different door. There might be a flght delay because people wasted an hour tpo swap seats and Ryanair has to pay compensatiohn. Imagine a child sitting separated from their parents will claim after a flight that it was touched by the men sitting left and right to him. Ryanair might actually get into trouble for that. We'll see if that is a masterstroke then.

Nutser

I booked flights last week with Ryanair, for two adults and one child. What I found particularly annoying was that I was required to pay for seats for at least one adult and one child even though there were no seats available that would allow us to sit together.

km79

Nutser wrote: »

I booked flights last week with Ryanair, for two adults and one child. What I found particularly annoying was that I was required to pay for seats for at least one adult and one child even though there were no seats available that would allow us to sit together.

Now that is mental

embraer170

Nutser wrote: »

I booked flights last week with Ryanair, for two adults and one child. What I found particularly annoying was that I was required to pay for seats for at least one adult and one child even though there were no seats available that would allow us to sit together.

Yes, with the new algorithm that can easily happen if you do a very late booking (2-3 days before departure).

joeysoap

From posts on this thread and the Ryanair thread it appears (to me anyway) that a lot of passengers who pay for seats when booking are choosing A and C or D and F seats in the hope/belief that the plane won't sell out and they have the middle seat to themselves. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many passengers complaining about getting middle seats.

Haithabu

joeysoap wrote: »

From posts on this thread and the Ryanair thread it appears (to me anyway) that a lot of passengers who pay for seats when booking are choosing A and C or D and F seats in the hope/belief that the plane won't sell out and they have the middle seat to themselves. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many passengers complaining about getting middle seats.

Middle seats are generally less popular, also by those travelling alone so yes - maybe there are more middle seats to be randomly allocated after the purchased seats are deducted.

In my example however both my partner and I have been allocated aisle seats (rows 10 and 31). There is a middle seat left besides my partner so if the system would have tried to get rid of a middle seat or a gap it could have easily fitted me into that seat. But changing to that middle seat would cost me 9 EUR. Alternatively moving two rows behind her is 7 EUR or 5 rows behind her is 5 EUR. So the closer I want to sit to her the more expensive it is. As said, the system even told me, and I quote the text : "You're sitting 21 row(s) apart. Would you prefer to sit together?"

From reading the threads here as well as the comments on Irish Times it seems that couples who are travelling are often split in a way that one has to board at the front steps and the other at the back steps.

Next flight I book I might book the tickets separately and we check in separately because that seems to have a higher chance of sitting close to each other.

degsie

Thank your luck stars you are allowed to sit at all!

GaGa21

Checked in last night for flight to London on Thursday and I was given 2 middle seats row 6 and 9. Went online to check seats available and both window seats in 6 and 9 are free!
And Ryanair claim they are not doing this deliberately??
It used to pay to check in early for seats together but now I think I'll wait last minute to at least get a window seat!

runawaybishop

GaGa21 wrote: »

Checked in last night for flight to London on Thursday and I was given 2 middle seats row 6 and 9. Went online to check seats available and both window seats in 6 and 9 are free!
And Ryanair claim they are not doing this deliberately??
It used to pay to check in early for seats together but now I think I'll wait last minute yo at least get a window seat!

They are probably allocating middle seats to people that check in early so the aisle and window seats are available to those who pay. Checking in later may give you a window or aisle seat but you'll still not be together.

GaGa21

runawaybishop wrote:

They are probably allocating middle seats to people that check in early so the aisle and window seats are available to those who pay. Checking in later may give you a window or aisle seat but you'll still not be together.

Don't mind that on a short flight to London, would probably pay for a seat on longer flight tho.

joeysoap

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/04/11/ryanair-passenger-charged-15-euro-for-being-dragged-off-plane/

RoYoBo

GaGa21 wrote: »

It used to pay to check in early for seats together but now I think I'll wait last minute to at least get a window seat!

That's my plan from now on too. On our most recent flight, the middle seats were all allocated by day 3 of the free check-in window. If you can't be seated beside your companion, at least you won't be sandwiched between 2 strangers.

And, like what happened to us last week, you just might even be lucky if the middle seat occupant finds a place somewhere else on the plane. He or she will be very motivated to do so.

joeysoap

joeysoap wrote: »

When I was checking for prices a few months ago (unsure of my dates but had ballpark idea) RY were quoting €134 fares. A few weeks after this when I did have my dates the fares were €156. I didn't book and the fares went to €178. Last week the fares on the date I am travelling dropped to €97. And dropped again on Friday to €82. Obviously they were trying it on with the earlier prices but that's still some drop.

Dropped again to €69. And would you believe it skyscanner are now showing Leeds/Faro via Dublin as an alternative. The exact opposite to what I booked. I could guess from the seats booked that RY had sold fcuk all seats on this flight up to lately.

Not booking early in future

MOH

dermiestv wrote: »

Seems to me the attempts to defend this company - who clearly changed their business practices to sneak an extra charge on people who didn't have to pay it before, and then deny that they've made any change - are hysterical and hilarious.

Whatever about the debatable rights and wrongs or affordability of the charge, the company behaviour is cynical and dishonest and has been called out as such by media all over Europe.

Their policy has always been if you want to be guaranteed to sit together, you need to pay for that. That hasn't changed. What has changed is you're less likely to get that without paying for it.
There's been two people claiming on this thread that children will get molested on the plane as a result of the change. Hard to get more hysterical than that.

I'm genuinely curious about the 'all over Europe' part. There's been a lot in the UK and Irish media, was wondering if it's as big a deal everywhere else. Or were people in some other countries more likely to have been paying the fee to sit together already.

Nutser wrote:

I booked flights last week with Ryanair, for two adults and one child. What I found particularly annoying was that I was required to pay for seats for at least one adult and one child even though there were no seats available that would allow us to sit together.

That's nonsense alright. If there were no two seats available anywhere on the plane and you still had to pay for two adjacent seats, I'd follow it up with them.

Haithabu wrote: »

Imagine additionally to the priority and non-priority Qs they next introduce a third queue. One where you have to walk two kilometers outside on the tarmac and then two kilometers back to end up exactly where you were before. And then they say for an extra 10 EUR you can skip that Q. Would you still be okay with that ?

Imagine they start charging to use the toilets. Imagine they start charging to get a seat at all instead of standing. Imagine they charge for oxygen masks in an emergency. Imagine your firstborn child gets fed to a pack of lions as you're disembarking unless you pay an extra €0.53?

If they start bringing in new charges that never previously existed, I'll worry about that then. But that's actually less likely while they're focusing on maximising the revenue from the charges they already have, by closing loopholes people use to get around them.

Haithabu wrote: »

Someone had a new idea of sqeezeing out more money out of passengers without having to include it into the initial price tag offered on the website.

Or Ryanair have cracked down on passengers who had the idea of squeezing adjacent seats out of them without having to pay for them.

Paddy from the Glen wrote: »

Why is the simple art of sitting down on an aeroplane made so complicated by Ryanair?

Why is the simple art of paying for what you want made so complicated by passengers?


On a side note, I think Irish Rail are a disgrace, bringing in those exit barriers at stations. People who used to be able to travel without paying now have to actually buy a ticket or they'll get caught. Oh, the humanity!

joeysoap

Haithabu wrote: »

I had this right now. It assigned row 10 and row 31 to us and then displays a plane picture where you have empty seats and can pay for them. After I said "no thanks" it even popped up a message "you are sitting 21 rows from each other, would you like to sit together ?"

I think this sums up the 'new' Ryanair policy.


If you decide to book seats together do it at booking stage, buying them later is more expensive and your less likely to get the (few) seats at €4 as they are more likely to be bought at the sale price (€2).

And the chances of sitting together without buying seats is slim. It would appear that even if there are two adjacent seats available Ryanair are allocating the middle ones anyway and if customers (not a word Ryanair like to use) accept their allocation then it is even less likely that that late checkers in are going to get 2 seats together- as Ryanair have all but eliminated that possibility.

RoYoBo

I care less about sitting together than I do about being stuck in a middle seat. I don't HAVE to sit with my OH (though I'd naturally prefer it), especially for short flights.

From my point of view, therefore, if I simply wait until these middle seats have all been allocated before I check in, I'm happy out.

Also, other people who check in later now will have no option to purchase seats together, with all the middles gone, so why would they bother? Have Ryanair not shot themselves in the foot here?

weldoninhio

Bob24 wrote: »

And if a Ryanair staff ever asks you to swap seat for anything else than safety/legal reasons, politely inform them that if they would prefer to use that specific one your seat is available for a fee ;-)

6.1 All flights operate with allocated seating, we reserve the right to assign or reassign seats at any time, even after boarding of the aircraft. This may be necessary for operational, safety or security reasons.

You've already agreed to move, if required, by clicking the box that states you agree to all of the terms and conditions when you were booking the flight.

joeysoap

joeysoap wrote: »

Dropped again to €69. And would you believe it skyscanner are now showing Leeds/Faro via Dublin as an alternative. The exact opposite to what I booked. I could guess from the seats booked that RY had sold fcuk all seats on this flight up to lately.

Not booking early in future

So much for airhint! These fares dropped again tonight to €44!


Dublin to Faro: Fare progressively increased from €114 to €134 to €156 to €178 and suddenly dropped a few days ago to €96 then €83 then €69 and then €44. Unreal.

dartboardio

So much for free allocated seat. They've gotten worse! A few months ago you could almost rely on getting seats together if you all checked in together, early enough, say a group of three for example; this proved to be true a couple of months back when my mother, partner and I went abroad, checked in together (free checkin 4 days before flight) and all got seats together, on the way out, and the way back!

Recently flew to the same place, my boyfriend and I, and on the way out I checked in when free checkin opened, yet got something ridiculous like 6A and 22B as our seats; so had to pay 14 euro for the two of us to sit together. Then on the way back, I went to check in literally the hour the free check in opened, and surprise surprise, seats at opposite ends of the plane again?! This time 20 euro! As all the different coloured seats are different prices ranging from 6 euro to 18 each :S Absolutely ridiculous.

jackinthemix94

dartboardio wrote: »

So much for free allocated seat. They've gotten worse! A few months ago you could almost rely on getting seats together if you all checked in together, early enough, say a group of three for example; this proved to be true a couple of months back when my mother, partner and I went abroad, checked in together (free checkin 4 days before flight) and all got seats together, on the way out, and the way back!

Recently flew to the same place, my boyfriend and I, and on the way out I checked in when free checkin opened, yet got something ridiculous like 6A and 22B as our seats; so had to pay 14 euro for the two of us to sit together. Then on the way back, I went to check in literally the hour the free check in opened, and surprise surprise, seats at opposite ends of the plane again?! This time 20 euro! As all the different coloured seats are different prices ranging from 6 euro to 18 each :S Absolutely ridiculous.

It is a free allocated seat. It's free. It's an allocated seat. You chose to pay to sit next to your fella for additional convenience. Paying for the service / product you require without other people having to subsidize it through higher ticket prices.

Boom. The model right there.

joeysoap

dartboardio wrote: »

Recently flew to the same place, my boyfriend and I, and on the way out I checked in when free checkin opened, yet got something ridiculous like 6A and 22B as our seats; so had to pay 14 euro for the two of us to sit together. Then on the way back, I went to check in literally the hour the free check in opened, and surprise surprise, seats at opposite ends of the plane again?! This time 20 euro! As all the different coloured seats are different prices ranging from 6 euro to 18 each :S Absolutely ridiculous.

They are free and they are allocated, no arguments there. However it's the deliberate splitting up of passengers on the same booking that's annoying passengers.

Ryanair to are giving the chance for cheaper seats at time of booking, after booking this facility is no longer available. And they appear to allocate the middle seats first, so maybe better checking in later.

The chances of getting two seats together in the €4€/€6 section (rows 24 to 28) are slim to non at checking in stage.