Hurling championship 2014

randd1

The 2014 hurling year is just around the corner, and while obviously the league is first, the championship will soon come around too. So on that regard, this is my opinion I posted on another site, so here goes.

Here's my assessment of the possible winners of the 2014 Hurling Championship.

I would see Kilkenny, Dublin and Clare as the most likely to win the AI next year, but Tipp, Limerick and Cork with a great shout as well, and Galway just a bit behind.

Dublin I thought were the best side in the championship last year, and only for a dodgy yellow in the first few minutes would probably have beaten Cork as they were getting the upper hand (though in the end it has to be said that SF was Cork's best performance of the year and deserved the win). I reckon they would have beaten Clare as well if they got through. If they can improve on last year, they'd be the likeliest to win in my opinion. They also have division 1 hurling this year to help them along, which is a massive boost in preparation.

Clare are the AI champions, and as such will be serious contenders for the AI. They have a strong panel and play a grand style of hurling, with some very skillful players. They'll have the confidence of being AI champions which should not be under-estimated either. But they're not unbeatable either, they had their luck to an extent and were unconvincing in a few games. There are questions about their midfield and defense too as the AI finals showed, and will need to improve to repeat their feat. They'll also need to keep a lid on the hype and handle that next year, the expectation to perform will be higher than ever.

Kilkenny are not the team they were a few years, but they still have some serious quality. The "old legs" argument is absolutely moot as that's been bandied around since 2010, and they've claimed 5 out of 9 trophies available since then,
not to mention they have plenty of young enough lads in the squad. Man for man with everyone fit, they still have the strongest squad in the country. That said, they lack pace in defense, are prone to injury problems. Also, last year they lacked an attacking plan B, lacked variation in their approach and just didn't perform at all to anywhere near their capability. If they recover their mojo though, they should win it out, there's no-one as capable of utterly destroying another top side like Kilkenny can. The big question is can they recover their best form?

Tipp have probably the second best squad behind Kilkenny, but have lacked the stomach for the fight up front for a few years now. Also defensively they've regressed the last few years, getting scores off them isn't a problem. They need to find 2/3 new defenders and drastically improve the return of effort up front. If they do, they have a great chance to win Munster, and do that they'll have a great chance for the AI. There are question marks over Eamon O'Shea too, and bringing in McGeeney as a mental coach wouldn't exactly say "I know how to get the best out my players". Big year for Tipp, more specifically O'Shea and the younger players to see if they can live up to their hype. If they can, they'll be deadly.

Cork have to be up there with the favourites for the AI, but they're not as equipped as the others for it. They had their luck throughout the year in the QF's and SF's with the sending offs (though the were unlucky with that in the Munster final) which helped, but typically made the most of it. Going forward they have a lovely game-plan to use their speed, and they have the best goalie in the country. That said, they were badly exposed in individual battles and dominated in the AI's finals with Clare's poor defending keeping them in it. Their defense is very questionable too, their HB line especially. Walsh and Cadogan are big pluses, but not as big as they think. Also, only Harnedy showed last year a real presence under the dropping ball, something they need to improve on. But they're the best team at the moment for putting up big scores in a short period when they get a run on you.

Limerick are being underestimated by many in my opinion. They have a decent panel, they have some top young players, and have been there or there abouts for a few years now. The beat Tipp and Cork convincingly, and deservedly won Munster. The hype and poor shooting undid them against Clare, and physically they're a tough and fit side. They do lack top quality up front and are susceptible to fast ball at the back. There are questions too as to whether they can go on a sustained run. And while they have a decent panel, there are questions as to whether they can survive a few injuries.

Galway have the potential to beat anyone on their day, but their day has to be perfect for them. They'll have planty of motivation in Joe Cannings captaincy and Niall Donoghue's tragedy, so they won't lack on that front. Tactically, Cunningham has turn from the football tactics of 2012, which no longer work. They have some quality up front, but in defense and midfield there are question marks. They can win one or two big games, but don't look like a side capable of getting a run of 4/5 big games wins.

Waterford and Wexford are the likeliest of the chasing pack to produce a result in the championship, with Waterford the likeliest of the two to do so. Both had great years underage last year (especially Waterford), both are improving sides. Waterford still have a bit of quality to them still, and with a bit more fortitude and coolness could have beaten both Clare and Kilkenny last year. The same could have been said of Wexford against Dublin and Clare in their drawn games against the two. Neither are likely to win the AI, though I'd give Waterford a shot at Munster if things go their way.

Of the rest, you could only see Offaly get a result next year, but probably not against one of the favourites. They'll be interesting under Whelehan, but still lack a fair bit all the same. They've had bad luck with the draws they've got in recent years, and likely to fall to Kilkenny in Nowlan Park, so could do with a bit of luck on that front in the qualifiers.

Of the rest, Carlow are probably the best, they were last year anyway.

To sum up, Clare, Dublin or Kilkenny for Liam, Kilkenny or Dublin for Leinster, and anyone in Munster.
At a push I'll go Kilkenny for Leinster, Tipp for Munster, Kilkenny for the AI.

tomwaterford

I am most intrigued to see how killkenny will do next year
knowing them they will prob beat all in front of them.but dat air of unbeatablness is well gone now,and may take a while to recover,
who are they to play in leinster??

randd1

tomwaterford wrote: »

I am most intrigued to see how killkenny will do next year
knowing them they will prob beat all in front of them.but dat air of unbeatablness is well gone now,and may take a while to recover,
who are they to play in leinster??

Kilkenny are playing Offaly in the Leinster QF. As far as I know, that'll be in Nowlan Park as we played Offaly in Tullamore last year. If its any use to you, below is the draw for the championship.

The draw for Leinster is:

Dublin as Leinster champions have a bye to the SF.

QF Qualifying group: Antrim, Carlow, Laois, Westmeath, London.

QF's -

1- Wexford v Qualifying Group Winner
2- Galway v Qualifying Group Runner-up
3- Kilkenny v Offaly

Leinster Semi Final's -

1- Dublin v Winners QF 1
2- Winners QF 2 v Winners QF 3

That's the draw for Leinster next year. At a push I'll go with Dublin v Wexford and Kilkenny v Galway for the Leinster SF's, with a Dublin v Kilkenny Leinster Final with Kilkenny taking the spoils.

The draw for Munster is:

Munster QF - Cork v Waterford

Munster Semi Final's -

1- Clare v Cork/Waterford
2- Tipperary v Limerick

Very open and its anyone's really, but at a push I'll go with Cork to beat Waterford, then Cork and Tipp to get to the Munster Final, with Tipp winning it out.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

thinkstoomuch1

Dublin ,have the players but,as much as I rate Daly,i don't think Dublin will be as good next year.
He has been there too long,and I think there will be a staleness next year in the camp.

They should have got a new manager,Sheedy for example.As good,as they were last year,and they were very good,they have nothing new to add to say they can add that bit extra tme cross the line,where Tipp,Limerick,Galway,etc have more scope to improve.

Cork have huge scope,as we will have a stronger panel and have serious options up front with up to 12 players going for 6 places,and i'm not including Cussen,Naughton,Cian Maccarthy .It will be interesting to hear the panel for next year.
Harnedy is a real find,and Lehane is now starting to win he's own ball,combine that with Walsh and I have no fear of that half forward line.
Lehane didn't fire at all in the two games in the final,but got a goal that would grace any final ,and showed the massive potential he has.Since then,2-10 in a County Final,1-10 in the u21 county final , a splendid goal against Sixemile bridge ,he really began to dominate teams.He will improve further next year,and is thriving the pressure won't be as bad on him,as with Harnedy,Walsh,Cronin,Horgan,Jaime Coughlan,Moylan etc,you can't double mark lehane,when unlike last year ,Cork have serious firepower.


Horgan is really after maturing,Cronin will be fully recoverd from illness,Coughlan will have a full league behind him,that we will be much stronger next year,and Paudie sul,will be an option later on,if Cork make it.
People have a small minded view that the Cork team as a whole is average.Thats not the case.


What is ,is we have some very good players,that will have benefited greatly from last year ,and our panel last year was very weak.This year were stronger.
Where Cork struggled last year was we had no spine at 3 and 6.That was the main problem,as the half forward line improved at the end of the year,and with lehane,harnedy,walsh ,it has power,pace,athlesticm,aggression,ball winning,and can score,and would be a match for Clare or Kilkenny.


Cork have top quality corner backs,in Murphy,O Sullivan,O Neill ,that are as good as any in the country.
Mcdonnell can fit in there also.

If Cork can solve 3 and 6,and get a midfielder to partner kearney,we would be a match for anyone.
My fear is Cork see Cadogan as the answer at 3 and 6 and that is a dissaster,and having so many duals players ,will be our downfall.


Also it will be interesting to see how much of a loss ,Ger Cunningham will be.
A lot of pressure on Kingston,and Johnny Crowley .Seamie Mcgrath,is just a token gesture for the County board in the set up,he was always the weakest link in that set up,but it makes no odds,as Cork have astute proven men,and Matthews is a tndg trainer.
I don't buy your argument that poor defending ,let Cork get goals,and thats an in insult to Pa Cronin goal,and Lehanes that to me,were just so good you couldnt defend against them.Moylans goal ,was also created by a wonderful catch from Cronin,and Moylan got a great goal from a diffcult angle ,that it was more Cork Created than the way you put it,Clare gave us those goals.

I agree Harnedy goal,while it was an excellent finish ,Clare were slow to react to Lehanes shot ,and the penalty and free were clumsy challenges.


Cork have more claim to conceding soft goals in the replay,and that was down to Cork being brutally exposed for having no natural full back all year,other teams failed to take advantage,Clare went for the juglar in the replay.


Clare ,many believe were lucky ,is wrong ,and they are not getting the respect they deserve or earned.The sign of a great team in the making ,is how a team overcomes advertsity ,and when the dices are rolled against them,they still manage to come through.The Clare lads have an abundance of Hurling,speed,and there first touch is exemplary.Like any team,you need the mental application to go with that.


Yes they got beaten by Cork in June.Lesser teams would have folded.Clare didn't,they became more focused,more hardended,and they evolved as a team,and in every single game since they got better and better.Even in the replay ,they ,which suprised me ,were even better than the 1st day.

Thats down to Davy and the team.
I wouldn't read too much in to them loosing in June.Cork in 2004,Tipp in 2010,Kilkenny last year all got beaten and still won the All Ireland,and the latter two got hidings ,but they were just bad days but when they met Limerick and Cork the team was a different team in terms of intenstity and hunger etc.


Every team ,in there development will have a bad day.It is how they react is what makes them.Clare ,even against Wexford ,had to dig deep,they did.They have shown they can win ,shoot outs,blow teams apart,but also can grind out close teams.There was nothing lucky in regard there all ireland win.
They threw the kitchen sink at Cork,and were down and out,when Horgan scored.No other team ,bar Kilkenny would have pulled themselves out of that hole,with the last play of the game.

O Donovan was brave enough to have the balls as a defender to go for it.He did ,and it went over.
He's twin brother done the same in 2009,in the U21 final to beat kilkenny by a point.
At first glance you may think it was a lucky shot,but when you see the two brothers doing it ,and Kelly,Ryan,Collins scoring great outrageous points ,you see this is the DNA of Clare teams the last five years.

Clare are no ordinary team.They have been developed in a winning culture winning three u21 titles in five years,beating kilkenny by a point,and then coming from behind at half time last year to blow them away in thurles.These are no ordinary clare team.

People seem to be of the view,that Clare were lucky last year,and just cause they won last year,every other team next year could come from anywhere and win the title.What a load of bo**ox.


This Clare team was widely tipped as potential winners,the only suprise was they won it a year before they were expected to like Cork did in 99 after two u21 wins.
They don't seem the bunch to suffer second season syndrome ,and unlike Tipp in 2011,they won't get carried away,not under Davy.
Ger Loughanne spoke at a function,weeks ago and emphasied that they were just another good team to win the all ireland,to be great must win two or more.

They have done everything asked at underage,unlucky to be beaten by a point in the minor to raging favourites Kilkenny in 2010,have showed that they have made the final leap to senior.


What will make the difference to winning more is attutide ,and whether they keep evolving.They have such a large panel with real competiton for places that won't be a problem.Cork ,they won't fear,but they would like us,have rather avoided each other ,as in thurles on our day we could beat them.

I think Davy and Clare,contary to what people think,would much rather play Tippereary and kilkenny next year.The reason is,they would bring a new challenge to Clare,keep the focus,and ret them another challenge,they are well capable of meeting.Playing us,there is a danger of complaceny and staleness,and we have the bit between our teeth from last year,where as the fact they havent beaten tipp or Kilkenny,Davy have no doubt would play mind games and and convince he's team that people are not giving them credit and question marks remain until they have beaten all the top 3.He would say ,that the 95 and 97 teams never had the chance to play kilkenny ,but this Clare team would have the chance to be the first clare team to beat them at senior in over 30 years or more.They have beaten them at underage,these lads would relish a game with them.

Thats why I think if Clare were to meet them they have the panel to beat them.It is very hard to win two in a row,but I expect them to be there or bouts.

Galway,I expected to be in the running last year,but they were flat and lethartgic.Nobody gives them a hope,just the way they like it,and on there day,they are capable of a big scalp.The tragedy of Niall O'Donughue ,RIP) could make them more united and determined than ever.A dark horse.

Limerick ,I don't think lack firepower,theres a difference between having players and not picking them,than not having the players to pick.Just cause Allen had the stupidity to let Downes and Dowling on the bench,doesn't and won't mean O Grady will do the same.

Mulchay will thrive with Downes beside him ,and add in Dowling,and Hannon,they have four forwards that would grace any team imd the County.Adrian Breen will also come in to the fray.There is nothing wrong with that forward line ,and they have Jimbob ryan to do the hard graft.


Hickey ,was never a forward,and he could slot in the half back line.Limericks main problem,i had said it all year even after there overglorfied munster title(two home games,and they stumbled past 14 man Cork after an hour)was John Allen.He is overated,and is a poor,poor tactian.The media glorify him,particulary in Cork.I said he would be exposed against Clare,he was and brutally so,and when the team needed direction at half time,he stayed on the ptich,when the players were not the problem it was the team and tactics he played.That was disgraceful,the way he wouldnt go in the dressing room at half time.


Limerick have the players.My only worry with them ,is who is picking the team ,Ryan or O Grady ,and nobody is sure of how the dynamic of that set up will work.We have to wait and see.

Waterford,have a good set up ,it seems but it will take them time to build a new team ,with a new set up.There is bound to be a period of teething ,and this year may be a year too early.They are dangerous opponents for us,but we should beat them,if they play a similar style to old,it will suit us,a fast open game.


Kilkenny ,will be much stronger ,next year.They were tired,and the hunger was gone.It could be the last year for some,and I would expect one last kick in some of there great,truly great players.

Any time Kilkenny are beaten under Cody,they come back stronger.
He has already dropped Ruth,and Riche Power,he will make the brave calls for the benefit of the team.They will adapt to the new style of play Clare brought,and guaranteed since they went out in July,he has agoinsed and watch that tape several times,and has a plan already in place.
He would have watched the All Ireland finals repeatedly,he knows what needs to be done to stop Clare.

It was similar in 2005,after Cork had won ,people had said kilkenny were of the pace and had to reinvent themselves.Everything they had done all year,was done to master a plan to crowd out Corks running game .Allen fatally,like he done with Limerick ,believed don't fix whats nots broken.Cork became stale,static and predictable like Santa always comes at Christmas.
Cork were outhought by KK.
Clare under Davy ,next year will have a plan B,(he had one this year) and more than likely a plan C,and thats what makes it hard to predict the winner.


I would have felt Tippereary,would have won it last year at the start of the year.I don't think they were as bad as people said they were.If they had Kilkenny outside of Knowlan park they could have won,and Corbett was a big loss going off.They were not that far off the pace in the league final either in Knowlan Park.They are young enough ,and have not became a bad team overnight.They wont fear Limerick in Thurles.They need to have a bit of a clear out with some deadwood,particulary Seamus Callian ,who lacks the temparment to be consistently good.He reminds me so much of Cathal Naughton.

I would have been confident in them to do well,but when I heard Mcgeeney was involved,I lost all confidence in them.A great player ,but falls in to the list of a spoofer as a manager,he think's he is the bees knees,the media love him,but in truth ,he's record is average enough.Getting him involved,is a waste of time,as a performance analyst ,he brings f**k all to the table,and with such a woeful record in management he can hardly judge performance.


If he had came in straight from being a player,players could buy in to him,and believe.But all that is clouded out by he's days with Kildare,where they flattered to decieve,and he must share a lot of the blame in that.Not only will he mess things up in Tippereary,he will do likewise with Armagh.

I think Tippereary are fools to have him involved,whether it is a big role or not ,and he is not coming cheap either.Just when they turned in a profit of around 26k ,to spend money on a guy they don't need begs belief.It does like you say question O Shea ,as one of he's main strengths is meant to be communication and attention to detail.

I think Kilkenny,Clare will be there or there abouts.
The likes of Limerick have question marks over who actually is the boss,Cork have questions marks over Dualism,Tippereary with Mcgeeney , and Waterford are in transistiton,and Dublin need somebody new as Daly has taken them as far as he can,its hard to know who can come out of here.

I have a feeling Galway ,will suprise people,they won't win it,but there is no pressure on them next year.
I actually think the Munster Championship is so competitve,teams have to peak to win it next year ,and it could derail the All Ireland Hopes .
From a Cork point of view ,I would want to get to the Munster Final,as beaten in 1st round is a long rocky road ahead.Loosing a Munster final is not a dissaster,one extra game for some.Having said that ,physicogally,Cork can't loose another final ,as they have lost four already ,on top of underage dissasters.

All in all it should be a terrific season ,and we don't have to wait til the summer for the 1st big game of the year.That game is on the 15th of February,League game,Cork v Limerick.


A huge game with huge financial incentives and also in relation to team development ,this is a Must win game for both,it is the promotion play off,as realistically who evers wins will top the league and get promoted next year,amid the media PR to blow up that division,lets be honest it is a poor standard this year ,outside of us and Limerick.Wexford are the pick of the rest,but only at home,they would give you a game.

Id rather be beaten by Kilkenny,Clare,Tippereary etc ten times out of ten than beat Laois,Antrim,Offaly by big wins as you learn nothing but false dawns in those games,and average players are made look great which does not help your team develop.

PTH2009

ill have a go.

Munster
QF- Waterford vs Cork- Cork

SF- Tipp vs Limerick- Tipp
Sf- Clare vs Cork- Clare

F- Clare vs Tipp- Clare

Leinster

Laois and Antrim to get through the Round robin

Qf- Kilkenny vs Offaly- Kilkenny
QF- Galway vs Laois- Galway
QF- Wexford vs Antrim- Wexford

SF- Kilkenny vs Galway- Kilkenny
SF- Dublin vs Wexford- Dublin

F- Kilkenny vs Dublin- Kilkenny

All Ireland (I made up the draws)

Phase 1

Galway vs Waterford- Galway
Limerick vs Laois- Limerick
Cork vs Wexford- Cork
Antrim vs Offaly- Offaly

Phase 2
Galway vs Cork- Cork
Limerick vs Offaly- Limerick

QF
Cork vs Tipp- Cork
Limerick vs Dublin- Limerick

SF
Clare vs Limerick- Clare
Cork vs Kilkenny- Kilkenny

F- Clare v Kilkenny- Kilkenny

deadybai

PTH2009 wrote: »

ill have a go.

F- Clare v Kilkenny- Kilkenny

Ah id love to see a KK and Clare final for next year. Im tipping KK to win Leinster and the All Ireland. I suspect Tipp, Dublin, Waterford, KK and Clare to be the only teams to take a step forward this year rather than a step back. Im going to call it now and say a Dublin and Kilkenny All Ireland Final. I was very impressed with the Dubs last year and thought they were well capable of beating Clare in the final had they made it.

Has to be the most open championship in years in terms of who can win it. I just think that The Cats will have the revenge and hunger to win the championship (Remember the 2011 final?). A Leinster Championship must be the first priority for Kilkenny. 2 years of not winning it is a huge drought. Fairplay to the teams in Leinster for stepping their game up.

As for Munster, that really could be won by anyone. Id say Limerick should make the final again but i can see them being beat by Clare. I cant really make out how good Cork are after last years championship. Im going to say a semi-final loss for them. As for Waterford I can very well see them getting to the final and maybe even win it. Id love to see a Clare/Waterford or Tipp final. Im going to tip Clare marginally for Munster.

Cannot wait for Championship 2014

angelfire9

For me I'm putting money on Clare for the double
From Munster I reckon a Clare v Tipp final with Clare winning out
I'm concerned about the massive gap between Munster final and first semi but have faith that Davy will have a plan

Would love to see a Clare v Dublin AI I think Leinster will be harder to win this year

Personally I can't wait for Clare v KK in ennis in the league in Feb should be a cracker!

The_Banker

As a Cork supporter I just dont see Cork doing anything this year (unfortunately - and I hope I am wrong)..
Playing 1B is going to be a disaster but if they get off to a good start against Limerick in Feb it "could" set them up for the year...

If anyone can... JBM can...

Formosa

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I think Davy and Clare,contary to what people think,would much rather play Tippereary and kilkenny next year.The reason is,they would bring a new challenge to Clare,keep the focus,and ret them another challenge,they are well capable of meeting.Playing us,there is a danger of complaceny and staleness,and we have the bit between our teeth from last year,where as the fact they havent beaten tipp or Kilkenny,Davy have no doubt would play mind games and and convince he's team that people are not giving them credit and question marks remain until they have beaten all the top 3.He would say ,that the 95 and 97 teams never had the chance to play kilkenny ,but this Clare team would have the chance to be the first clare team to beat them at senior in over 30 years or more.They have beaten them at underage,these lads would relish a game with them.

Clare bet Kilkenny by 4 points in the 1997 AI semi final.

Straight Talker

The_Banker wrote: »

As a Cork supporter I just dont see Cork doing anything this year (unfortunately - and I hope I am wrong)..
Playing 1B is going to be a disaster but if they get off to a good start against Limerick in Feb it "could" set them up for the year...

If anyone can... JBM can...

I think this Cork team made serious progress last year.People are saying that Clare are the second coming of Kilkenny and that Cork are average.Yet it took Clare three attempts to beat Cork in the championship last year and they needed a desperate last gasp equalizer in the drawn all ireland final!Cork played some great hurling last year but the theme in certain quarters is that it was a miracle that JBM got so much out of a bum outfit!What rubbish!I think Cork have a very strong forward line and a two time all star goal keeper.If the management team can become more tactically aware and if we find a proper full back and sort out the half back line then we won't be too far off.Paudie O'Sullivan and Aidan Walsh will be excellent additions to the panel and the experience our players gained last year will stand to them going forward into the next few years.Imagine if it wasn't for the neglect of our underage structures then our lads could have won a few underage all irelands but they didn't have that winning background at underage.Clare did their homework at underage level and they have reaped the rewards of that hard work.Im not too bothered about division 2 hurling.We'll get good competitive games from Limerick Wexford and Offaly and we can still get to a league final from division 2.

Waterford are my dark horses for next year and Limerick have some class forwards.If Waterford can get a run going then they could end up playing into September.Wouldn't a Cork and Waterford all ireland final be some occasion!Im taking nothing for granted against them and they'll give anyone a tough game next year.I do think that Limerick could be short a few quality backs and at least one top class midfielder.I think Limerick have a great mix of scoring power and physicality in their forwards however.If they can sort out their defence and midfield then Limerick will be in business.

randd1

Straight Talker wrote: »

I think this Cork team made serious progress last year. People are saying that Clare are the second coming of Kilkenny

Clare might win another AI or two, but they won't ever match what Kilkenny achieved. That Kilkenny team is a once in a lifetime team, Leinster's, League's and AI's gobbled up by a force and a freak of nature, and we might never see their likes or their dominance as long as we live. Its unfair for some people to put Clare into that bracket after one AI, they don't need that pressure.

Straight Talker wrote: »

and that Cork are average.Yet it took Clare three attempts to beat Cork in the championship last year and they needed a desperate last gasp equalizer in the drawn all ireland final! Cork played some great hurling last year but the theme in certain quarters is that it was a miracle that JBM got so much out of a bum outfit! What rubbish!

I'd have to agree with you on that front, I thought Cork, while not near the great sides of before in terms of class, were certainly not average. They played some great hurling in Munster, they got a bit of luck against Kilkenny and Dublin with the sendings off but still deserved to win both games, were winning the drawn AI at full time and were only a puck of the ball from Clare before Honan's goal in the replay.

JBM certainly got the best out of his players, and there have been better Cork sides, but they were not an average side last year, they played some fantastic stuff and could easily be AI champions.

In my opinion, though Clare were the better side in the AI finals, Cork were at least as good as Clare last year.

Straight Talker wrote: »

I think Cork have a very strong forward line and a two time all star goal keeper.If the management team can become more tactically aware and if we find a proper full back and sort out the half back line then we won't be too far off.Paudie O'Sullivan and Aidan Walsh will be excellent additions to the panel and the experience our players gained last year will stand to them going forward into the next few years.Imagine if it wasn't for the neglect of our underage structures then our lads could have won a few underage all irelands but they didn't have that winning background at underage.Clare did their homework at underage level and they have reaped the rewards of that hard work.Im not too bothered about division 2 hurling.We'll get good competitive games from Limerick Wexford and Offaly and we can still get to a league final from division 2.

There's no guarantee Walsh will be a force next year. A few good performances in U21 in Munster in 2011 doesn't mean he'll be a serious addition to the panel next year. And might I remind you, that Limerick side he got 8 points against was subsequently stuffed the next day.

O'Sullivan will be a huge bonus though, assuming he can recover fully.

As for the underage structures, there's no guarantee Cork would have won anything at underage even if they did have the right structure in place, there's been some cracking teams in Munster at underage in recent years.

Straight Talker wrote: »

Waterford are my dark horses for next year and Limerick have some class forwards.If Waterford can get a run going then they could end up playing into September.Wouldn't a Cork and Waterford all ireland final be some occasion!Im taking nothing for granted against them and they'll give anyone a tough game next year.I do think that Limerick could be short a few quality backs and at least one top class midfielder.I think Limerick have a great mix of scoring power and physicality in their forwards however.If they can sort out their defence and midfield then Limerick will be in business.

The only way Waterford could do well next year is to get to a Munster final. I can't see them beating Cork or Clare next year, the young lads coming through are a bit too young and the seniors that were there this year lack a bit.

Limerick could be the real dark horse next year, but they'll have to do it the hard way away from the Gaelic Grounds. they might beat Tipp, and if they do I'd give them a shot at Munster, but if they lose to Tipp I can't see them winning the AI through the back door.

thinkstoomuch1

randd1 wrote: »

Clare might win another AI or two, but they won't ever match what Kilkenny achieved. That Kilkenny team is a once in a lifetime team, Leinster's, League's and AI's gobbled up by a force and a freak of nature, and we might never see their likes or their dominance as long as we live. Its unfair for some people to put Clare into that bracket after one AI, they don't need that pressure.



I'd have to agree with you on that front, I thought Cork, while not near the great sides of before in terms of class, were certainly not average. They played some great hurling in Munster, they got a bit of luck against Kilkenny and Dublin with the sendings off but still deserved to win both games, were winning the drawn AI at full time and were only a puck of the ball from Clare before Honan's goal in the replay.

JBM certainly got the best out of his players, and there have been better Cork sides, but they were not an average side last year, they played some fantastic stuff and could easily be AI champions.

In my opinion, though Clare were the better side in the AI finals, Cork were at least as good as Clare last year.



There's no guarantee Walsh will be a force next year. A few good performances in U21 in Munster in 2011 doesn't mean he'll be a serious addition to the panel next year. And might I remind you, that Limerick side he got 8 points against was subsequently stuffed the next day.

O'Sullivan will be a huge bonus though, assuming he can recover fully.

As for the underage structures, there's no guarantee Cork would have won anything at underage even if they did have the right structure in place, there's been some cracking teams in Munster at underage in recent years.



The only way Waterford could do well next year is to get to a Munster final. I can't see them beating Cork or Clare next year, the young lads coming through are a bit too young and the seniors that were there this year lack a bit.

Limerick could be the real dark horse next year, but they'll have to do it the hard way away from the Gaelic Grounds. they might beat Tipp, and if they do I'd give them a shot at Munster, but if they lose to Tipp I can't see them winning the AI through the back door.

You have a bit of a contradiction there ,regards Walsh.You seem to take from him that the 8 points he got ,shouldn't be taken as gospel,and its worth is diluted by the fact Galway as you say stuffed Limerick in the semi final ,yet you say if cork had proper underage structures ,no guarantee we would have won ,as there was cracking teams at underage.
If jbm was involved with that cork team ,instead of Ger fitzgerald,considering with such a poor manager,we took them to extra time,then I think it is fair to say if Cork had JBM with that team full of talent(based on hes record with the minor in 95,senior team in 99 and this year,,then we would have won Munster,against that Limerick team you don't particulary rate,having been stuffed by Galway.

Not many other players at any grade put in such a performance like Walsh that day,and he's point inside he's own half was some point.


You are completley missing the point with Walsh in that game.You should be seeing that ,Cork hindered by our worst u21 manager in time,won just two games in four years,was kept in that game by the brillance of Walsh and the fact he nearly won the game on hes own,despite being double marked in the second half.

Let me remind you Aidan Walsh was a super minor also and if. Denis Walsh was any good he would have been picked with the hurlers first,such is he's talent as a hurler.

randd1

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You have a bit of a contradiction there ,regards Walsh.You seem to take from him that the 8 points he got ,shouldn't be taken as gospel,and its worth is diluted by the fact Galway as you say stuffed Limerick in the semi final ,yet you say if cork had proper underage structures ,no guarantee we would have won ,as there was cracking teams at underage.
If jbm was involved with that cork team ,instead of Ger fitzgerald,considering with such a poor manager,we took them to extra time,then I think it is fair to say if Cork had JBM with that team full of talent(based on hes record with the minor in 95,senior team in 99 and this year,,then we would have won Munster,against that Limerick team you don't particulary rate,having been stuffed by Galway.

Not many other players at any grade put in such a performance like Walsh that day,and he's point inside he's own half was some point.


You are completley missing the point with Walsh in that game.You should be seeing that ,Cork hindered by our worst u21 manager in time,won just two games in four years,was kept in that game by the brillance of Walsh and the fact he nearly won the game on hes own,despite being double marked in the second half.

Let me remind you Aidan Walsh was a super minor also and if. Denis Walsh was any good he would have been picked with the hurlers first,such is he's talent as a hurler.

But he didn't pick him, and Walsh went to the footballers. He's perfectly entitled to of course, but you can't just switch from football to hurling and expect things to happen as they did in an U21 performance from three years earlier, no matter how impressive the performance was.

I'm not saying the lad is not talented, I'm saying don't expect much from him next year, he's not been involved in inter-county hurling for a few years and is (according to reports) splitting his attention with the footballers. These days you can't serve two masters, and I think Walsh is not going to make the expected impact at senior hurling unless he's playing and training as much as the other hurlers and concentrating solely on hurling, no matter if he has the talent and underage pedigree.

Rightwing

It will be a very interesting year. Clare won't win anything, neither will Cork (apart from maybe Div 1b).

I'd be most wary of Tipp.

Straight Talker

Rightwing wrote: »

It will be a very interesting year. Clare won't win anything, neither will Cork (apart from maybe Div 1b).

I'd be most wary of Tipp.

Yeah JBM is such a great man to do so well with such a bunch of useless hurlers!I suppose the inclusions of Paudie O'Sullivan Aidan Walsh and Eoin Cadogan won't strenghten the panel.I also suppose that it would be ridiculous to think that fella's like Stephen McDonnell, Christopher Joyce, William Egan, Daniel Kearney, Seamus Harnedy, Luke O'Farrell, Conor Lehane, Jamie Coughlan and Stephen Moylan have further scope for improvement.I suppose they gained nothing from last years experience?Logic would indicate that Cork can improve.They said that Cork wouldn't improve on the progress they made in 2012 last year and look at what happened!

Rightwing

Straight Talker wrote: »

Yeah JBM is such a great man to do so well with such a bunch of useless hurlers!I suppose the inclusions of Paudie O'Sullivan Aidan Walsh and Eoin Cadogan won't strenghten the panel.I also suppose that it would be ridiculous to think that fella's like Stephen McDonnell, Christopher Joyce, William Egan, Daniel Kearney, Seamus Harnedy, Luke O'Farrell, Conor Lehane, Jamie Coughlan and Stephen Moylan have further scope for improvement.I suppose they gained nothing from last years experience?Logic would indicate that Cork can improve.They said that Cork wouldn't improve on the progress they made in 2012 and look at what happened!

Well for such a great man, what he did he do? Get relegated and lost a few finals.

Chuckle chuckle.

Straight Talker

Rightwing wrote: »

Well for such a great man, what he did he do? Get relegated and lost a few finals.

Chuckle chuckle.

He took a bunch of players that won nothing at underage level to an all ireland final and it took Clare three attempts to beat Cork in the championship last year.So i don't buy into this average Cork talk.Cork also played some great hurling against Dublin and in the two all ireland finals against Clare.But sure there's no point in arguing with a man that can bring nothing except silly one liners to the table.:rolleyes: Then again sure Cork only beat Dublin because Dublin had a man sent off.Of course the sending off that Cork had in the munster final had no impact on that game!

Rightwing

Straight Talker wrote: »

He took a bunch of players that won nothing at underage level to an all ireland final and it took Clare three attempts to beat Cork in the championship last year.So i don't buy into this average Cork talk.Cork also played some great hurling against Dublin and in the two all ireland finals against Clare.But sure there's no point in arguing with a man that can bring nothing except petty one liners to the table.:rolleyes: Then again sure Cork only beat Dublin because Dublin had a man sent off.Of course the sending off that Cork had in the munster final had no impact on that game!

I didn't see anyone calling them average, hope this helps.

My point is, last year was the year to win when the big guns fell early. This applies not only to Cork. Clare took full advantage of it, even though they nearly stumbled v Wexford.

Straight Talker

Rightwing wrote: »

I didn't see anyone calling them average, hope this helps.

My point is, last year was the year to win when the big guns fell early. This applies not only to Cork. Clare took full advantage of it, even though they nearly stumbled v Wexford.

Kilkenny Tipp and Galway were off their game last year but Clare Cork Dublin and Limerick made serious progress.Waterford also showed signs that they are moving in the right direction.

Rightwing

Straight Talker wrote: »

Kilkenny Tipp and Galway were off their game last year but Clare Cork Dublin and Limerick made serious progress.Waterford also showed signs that they are moving in the right direction.

I agree with that, I think Tipp will be dangerous in Munster, Galway could come good too, but if the championship is half as good as last year, we'll all be in for a treat.

kksaints

I must admit Im amazed when I look at the betting on PP and see that Kilkenny are favourites. We were very poor in the 2013 championship. Tactics were wrong, very few of the forwards looked up to it,some of our legends looked on their last legs and our recent underage record isnt as good as it used to be. I think people put too much faith into that Tipp match and ignore the fact that that match was really our only top class performance. We were average against an improving but limited Waterford side and were struggling against Cork even before the sending off. Clare and Dublin at bigger odds look a lot more tempting value wise.

Fireball07

jacksie66 wrote: »

Limerick for everything. Putting the bet on right now..

This man knows what he's talking about


I'll do some proper analysis later, but it's very hard to say as of now, I think it'll be another open Championship again. Whoever wins will need to stay clear of injuries, have a bit of luck (as well as skill and getting their tactics right). Who knows how teams will react to last season's form, and how new managers or new players may affect the squad?

Rightwing

kksaints wrote: »

I must admit Im amazed when I look at the betting on PP and see that Kilkenny are favourites. We were very poor in the 2013 championship. Tactics were wrong, very few of the forwards looked up to it,some of our legends looked on their last legs and our recent underage record isnt as good as it used to be. I think people put too much faith into that Tipp match and ignore the fact that that match was really our only top class performance. We were average against an improving but limited Waterford side and were struggling against Cork even before the sending off. Clare and Dublin at bigger odds look a lot more tempting value wise.

I agree, KK living on reputation, it will take a big performance to beat them, but many teams are well capable of putting in that performance now.

deadybai

I think the reason why Kilkenny are favorites is because of the past. The were almost written off in 2000 under Cody after the final defeat in 1999. Same again at the beginning of 2002 and 2006. They also annihilated Tipp in the 2011 final after been annihilated themselves the year previously . Also Kilkenny won the league last year and still have some of the all time greats in their squad. A lot of player were injured last year also. Paul Murphy was hardly even fit to play last year and he was Kilkenny's best player of the championship. Its really too bad that Clare didn't meet Kilkenny last year. Its hard to know how good all the teams are after last year because some games were affected by sending offs. For instance its hard to know how good Galway are after reaching the final in 2012 and then being so flat last year. Its just uncertainty really that has Kilkenny at favorites. A betting man would probably put their money on a team like Clare or Tipp at this stage. I think after about 2 games into the championship it will become much clearer who are the real favorites.

Straight Talker

I'll just let anyone that doesn't read the Cork GAA thread know that there is a new Cork GAA discussion site.Supporters of other counties are more than welcome.It would be nice to have some Waterford and Limerick posters in particular on it.

http://bloodandbandage.forumga.net/

randd1

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree, KK living on reputation, it will take a big performance to beat them, but many teams are well capable of putting in that performance now.

They're not living on reputation, the reputation is well earned. Galway are an example of a county living on reputation.

And Kilkenny didn't have a great year by their standards, but they were 5 points off Cork in the AIQF with 14 men, were beaten in a replay by Dublin who waltzed the Leinster final, and beat Tipp and Waterford in the championship. And they won the National League as well. This on top of a series of injuries to key players and very poor form.

The reason they're favourites is if they can do the above with a spate of bad injuries and poor form, what would they be capable of if they have everyone fit and hurling well? Its not like Cork and Clare covered themselves in glory defense wise in the finals either, while both were excellent in terms of hurling, the finals would say that both can be well exposed by a team on their game next year.

Kilkenny are not the force they were, but they're still fairly potent and have a very good squad, and its forgotten they've won two of the last three AI's and are going for three leagues in a row. They're worthy favourites, even if they're not AI champions.

gpat14

randd1 wrote: »

They're not living on reputation, the reputation is well earned. Galway are an example of a county living on reputation.

And Kilkenny didn't have a great year by their standards, but they were 5 points off Cork in the AIQF with 14 men, were beaten in a replay by Dublin who waltzed the Leinster final, and beat Tipp and Waterford in the championship. And they won the National League as well. This on top of a series of injuries to key players and very poor form.

The reason they're favourites is if they can do the above with a spate of bad injuries and poor form, what would they be capable of if they have everyone fit and hurling well? Its not like Cork and Clare covered themselves in glory defense wise in the finals either, while both were excellent in terms of hurling, the finals would say that both can be well exposed by a team on their game next year.

Kilkenny are not the force they were, but they're still fairly potent and have a very good squad, and its forgotten they've won two of the last three AI's and are going for three leagues in a row. They're worthy favourites, even if they're not AI champions.

If KK beat Cork I'm convinced they'd have won the AI last year

KevIRL

gpat14 wrote: »

If KK beat Cork I'm convinced they'd have won the AI last year

And they would have won that game but for some brutal free taking.

Straight Talker

Kilkenny missed a lot of frees that day.I think Cork were well ahead in the closing stages though.They were winning by 8 points at one stage but they didn't have the confidence to drive on from there and Kilkenny came back into it.Kilkenny will be there and thereabouts again next year and they will be savage hard to beat.I don't think they are the all conquering force that they were from 2006 to 2009 though while Tipp and Galway are enigmas.Cork could go either way.They could go on another run.They could improve as a team but still not make the final or they could really slip back.Corks squad depth wouldn't be that great so a few injuries and there will be problems.

Straight Talker

gpat14 wrote: »

If KK beat Cork I'm convinced they'd have won the AI last year

Maybe.I think Waterford would have beaten Kilkenny last year with more accurate shooting.Dublin are a serious team and i think Clare will be very hard to beat if they tighten up their defence.I don't think Kilkenny were at their best last year though so im not sure that they won the all ireland and i think Cork were that bit better on the day.However that was a tired Kilkenny team that day in Thurles but i think Cork showed with some of the hurling they played against Dublin and Clare in both all ireland finals that they aren't a bad team.Sure you have been spoiled over the past 13 years with all irelands in Kilkenny im sure you won't begrudge other counties their day in the sun!

gpat14

Straight Talker wrote: »

Maybe.I think Waterford would have beaten Kilkenny last year with more accurate shooting.Dublin are a serious team and i think Clare will be very hard to beat if they tighten up their defence.I don't think Kilkenny were at their best last year though so im not sure that they won the all ireland and i think Cork were that bit better on the day.However that was a tired Kilkenny team that day in Thurles but i think Cork showed with some of the hurling they played against Dublin and Clare in both all ireland finals that they aren't a bad team.Sure you have been spoiled over the past 13 years with all irelands in Kilkenny im sure you won't begrudge other counties their day in the sun!

I don't think KK were that great in 2012 to be honest but they did enough

Beating Cork would have been enough for me, couldn't see Dublin beating them a second time and they'd have used their experience to grind out a win in the final. Remember how poor Cork were the first day and were seconds from winning?

I said before the Cork match at the time that it was a do or die game and the winner would win AI. Now I was clearly wrong but had KK snuck it I couldn't see inexperienced teams like Dublin or Clare stopping them in Croke Park in August/Sept

Rightwing

gpat14 wrote: »

I don't think KK were that great in 2012 to be honest but they did enough

Beating Cork would have been enough for me, couldn't see Dublin beating them a second time and they'd have used their experience to grind out a win in the final. Remember how poor Cork were the first day and were seconds from winning?

I said before the Cork match at the time that it was a do or die game and the winner would win AI. Now I was clearly wrong but had KK snuck it I couldn't see inexperienced teams like Dublin or Clare stopping them in Croke Park in August/Sept

No, KK were a badly beaten docket last season, Clare would have smashed them for 10+ points. Would probably have been Cody's last game, so in that sense they were probably lucky cork did a number on them.

gpat14

Rightwing wrote: »

No, KK were a badly beaten docket last season, Clare would have smashed them for 10+ points. Would probably have been Cody's last game, so in that sense they were probably lucky cork did a number on them.

Don't agree

Galway were horrendous in the quarters by their standards yet Clare still didn't smash them. As I already said Cork could even have won the first game despite being way below par

I think KK would have found a way to win myself but sure obviously it's all speculation!

Rightwing

gpat14 wrote: »

Don't agree

Galway were horrendous in the quarters by their standards yet Clare still didn't smash them. As I already said Cork could even have won the first game despite being way below par

I think KK would have found a way to win myself but sure obviously it's all speculation!

No 2 games are ever the same. It's hard know really, KK looked tired v Dub, hanging on v WD, they raised it v Tipp but would probably have lost had Corbett not got injured, then very, very flat against an average cork team. Cork then got a bit of confidence after that vistory. It was a great championship, but no team really stood out, it's hard know even how good are clare.

Straight Talker

Are Cork an average team?To give credit where it's due they played some great hurling against Dublin and Clare.They have some class forwards like Patrick Horgan and Conor Lehane.I think Cork have a nice mix of scorers and ball winners in their attack.The half back line requires serious work though and the Cork midfield couldn't impose itself at all against Clare in both all ireland finals.

Rightwing

Straight Talker wrote: »

Are Cork an average team?To give credit where it's due they played some great hurling against Dublin and Clare.They have some class forwards like Patrick Horgan and Conor Lehane.I think Cork have a nice mix of scorers and ball winners in their attack.The half back line requires serious work though and the Cork midfield couldn't impose itself at all against Clare in both all ireland finals.

There's no doubt they picked it up after the KK game, JBM said that himself. But before that they weren't great.

dzilla

Can anybody see the likes of carlow / westmeath / antrim having any major input into this years leinster?

Rightwing

dzilla wrote: »

Can anybody see the likes of carlow / westmeath / antrim having any major input into this years leinster?

Unfortunately no.

gpat14

Rightwing wrote: »

No 2 games are ever the same. It's hard know really, KK looked tired v Dub, hanging on v WD, they raised it v Tipp but would probably have lost had Corbett not got injured, then very, very flat against an average cork team. Cork then got a bit of confidence after that vistory. It was a great championship, but no team really stood out, it's hard know even how good are clare.

That's a true point, you could argue they didn't have to beat much at all to reach a final.

To be fair to them though they really turned up when it counted (in the two finals). I think they just used their momentum and improved with every game. They beat nothing in Galway and drew with Wexford essentially after getting well beaten by Cork in Munster

In the semi-finals stage you could argue the AI was wide open between the four and it was from then they really grabbed it by the b*lls and pushed on. Granted Limerick didn't turn up but they really performed in both finals.

It'll be interesting to see how they do next year. I do think they benefitted from a handy draw (maybe not on paper initially but Galway and Limerick really were poor on the day) this year to reach a final. I'd like to see how they'd do if they had to face the likes of Tipp and KK and perhaps Cork again in the one season

Rightwing

gpat14 wrote: »

That's a true point, you could argue they didn't have to beat much at all to reach a final.

To be fair to them though they really turned up when it counted (in the two finals). I think they just used their momentum and improved with every game. They beat nothing in Galway and drew with Wexford essentially after getting well beaten by Cork in Munster

In the semi-finals stage you could argue the AI was wide open between the four and it was from then they really grabbed it by the b*lls and pushed on. Granted Limerick didn't turn up but they really performed in both finals.

It'll be interesting to see how they do next year. I do think they benefitted from a handy draw (maybe not on paper initially but Galway and Limerick really were poor on the day) this year to reach a final. I'd like to see how they'd do if they had to face the likes of Tipp and KK and perhaps Cork again in the one season

Absolutely. Whilst everyone was roaring about the great hurling championship, no one seemed to question the quality of it. It reminded me a bit like Blackpool v Bolton, a 5-5 draw, everyone shouting 'it's a classic'. There was huge entertainment, no question about that, but I'm not sure that Clare team would have put it up to KK/Tipp teams of 3 or 4 years ago.

randd1

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely. Whilst everyone was roaring about the great hurling championship, no one seemed to question the quality of it. It reminded me a bit like Blackpool v Bolton, a 5-5 draw, everyone shouting 'it's a classic'. There was huge entertainment, no question about that, but I'm not sure that Clare team would have put it up to KK/Tipp teams of 3 or 4 years ago.

As for the bit in bold, I think they would have been ate alive completely. They're very good going forward and have plenty of skill, but their defense is very open and they concede a lot of scores, the Tipp and Kilkenny defenses of a few years ago wouldn't give them the space Cork did. And Cork showed in Munster that with a tight defense and some man marking of Tony Kelly, Clare can be well shut out. Even Wexford did a number on them in that front, but didn't have the quality up front to take advantage or a replacement for Waters at FB.

To be fair to Clare, they did improve as a team as the year went on and deserved their AI win fully, but they're a bit off Tipp and Kilkenny 2009/2010 at their best as it stands.

Outside of the other sides they will face, a few things on their own patch might hurt Clare this year too.
- Some of the players are going dual this year which will impact the panel a bit in terms of training together.
- Due to the replay their club championship ended very late in the year, which might lead to some tiredness as the players will have a short to time to recover from the year (something that badly hurt Galway and Kilkenny in 2013), with the U21 players more susceptible to it.
- There will be huge hype and pressure that they didn't have last year. We just don't know how a young squad is going to handle that.
- Davy is constantly in the papers since the AI, and will be on a new TV show in the new year. Will the new media darling have the same focus as last year?

If Clare can answer the above problems, there's no reason they can't repeat their success of last year, or maybe more. Big questions though.

GrandSoftDay

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely. Whilst everyone was roaring about the great hurling championship, no one seemed to question the quality of it. It reminded me a bit like Blackpool v Bolton, a 5-5 draw, everyone shouting 'it's a classic'. There was huge entertainment, no question about that, but I'm not sure that Clare team would have put it up to KK/Tipp teams of 3 or 4 years ago.

True but I dont think Clare are the finished article yet either. They have a huge panel and there is some very good players outside the starting 15 who will be fighting very hard for a starting place. I think their full back line needs more experience but they are strong the rest of the way up the field. There will be no complacency among players anyway.