Raw 30/12/13 *Spoilers*

rovert

Luke Harper looks like the definition of a (non-auld fella) Guinness drinker to me.

J. Marston

What a waste of time...

Moneymaker

Sigh, beating down the most over guy in years and the crowd STILL doesn't care.

rovert

Moneymaker wrote: »

Sigh, beating down the most over guy in years and the crowd STILL doesn't care.

Richmond is a historically lethargic crowd.

Professional Griefer

**** this.

beakerjoe

Didn't see this coming, the weak crowd is killing the segment

Moneymaker

For gods sake.

beakerjoe

Maybe Bryan is going to be ultimately revealed as to using the wyatts to win the rumble.... I can see it killing his popularity.

Professional Griefer

beakerjoe wrote: »

Didn't see this coming, the weak crowd is killing the segment

They need to kill it more, its gone on too long, no one gives a **** about it.

rovert

YAY Daniel Bryatt

SureYWouldntYa

What does Bryan joining the Wyatts even mean ? What is the purpose of it, is he just gonna ramble on a lot like Bray now ? Grow a massive beard ?

It would be a stupid thing even if the Wyatts were established

rovert

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

What does Bryan joining the Wyatts even mean ? What is the purpose of it, is he just gonna ramble on a lot like Bray now ? Grow a massive beard ?

It would be a stupid thing even if the Wyatts were established

A few points worth remembering for the inevitable Daniel Bryan discussion:
- Bryan can make just about any gimmick work
- There's a pretty coherent storyline to all of this it is almost perfect end to his 2013
- He is massively sympathetic in generak
- I think that they're "burying" Bryan because it sort of gets him more over because fans cheering him think they're rebelling
- This is a pretty huge boost to Bray Wyatt
- There probably wasn't much for face Bryan to do in the short-term
- The point where Bryan went from WWE midcarder to main event guy involved a very good heel turn

Saying that I do remember things like Cena in Nexus, JBL buying HBK etc. Also WWE messing up potentially great angles up totally the 2nd week.

SureYWouldntYa

rovert wrote: »

A few points worth remembering for the inevitable Daniel Bryan discussion:
- Bryan can make just about any gimmick work
- There's a pretty coherent storyline to all of this it is almost perfect end to his 2013
- He is massively sympathetic in generak
- I think that they're "burying" Bryan because it sort of gets him more over because fans cheering him think they're rebelling
- This is a pretty huge boost to Bray Wyatt
- There probably wasn't much for face Bryan to do in the short-term
- The point where Bryan went from WWE midcarder to main event guy involved a very good heel turn

Why not have him feud with the other favourites to win the Royal Rumble match?

No doubt Bryan will make it work, but it doesn't really build him up much because what does getting one over on the Wyatts mean for him

beakerjoe

I enjoyed it myself, not a great show by any means but I think theres lots of positives to be had here.

Was a decent show without Orton or Cena. Was a nice change. Video package for Randy was excellent and made him look like the big deal he is.

Brock being made look like a monster. Not sure where this is going (his comments suggested that he wouldnt be in the rumble) but I has happy to see him dominate Mizark

Fandango v Big E was a good match and is elevating the IC title back up after Curtis Axels lackluster reign

The slow build of the split of the shield continues. While I dont think they should be spilt yet, its sewing the small seeds for a great split and the rise of Roman Reigns.

The Daniel Bryan/Wyatt storyline is an odd one. I dont hate it but I really have a bad feeling that WWE dont know where they are going with it but I will watch and see how things play out.

GTR63

WWE are probably hoping him joining the Wyatts will put an end to those pesky YES chants that interupt the longwinded promos of the authority.
Show was about as good as I expected when so many names were missing.

Moneymaker

Well i've thought about it some now since watching.

- He has NOT turned heel, I don't understand how some people watching thing he has. He's as much a heel as John Cena was when he joined the Nexus, fans will not stop chanting for him. He is still very sympathetic.

- Wrestlemania is 4 months away still, lot of time.

- I thought the actual segment was very well acted and well done, apart from the visual of Bryan on his hands and knees infront of Wyatt. I hated that.

- The biggest problem with the feud was the in-ring action, the less time the Wyatts spend in the ring(and the more time they spend doing promos and segments, the better)

- Creative have ****ed up so much it's impossible to actually have confidence in them, but at least they're doing something different. People complain about predictability, and when it's unpredictable they complain because the person they're a mark for gets "buried".

As for the rest of the show, it was a solid show, the CM Punk/Shield segment was good and Brock wrecking Henry was awesome.

Lord TSC

He's as much a heel as John Cena was when he joined the Nexus

Disagree in part. Cena was forced to join the Shield and made it quite clear he didn't want to. Bryan, on the other hand, seems to have joined cause he's decided he doesn't want to keep getting his ass kicked.

I'm not sure how I feel about the story tbh. Based on last night, I worry Bryan just came off as someone who gave up and gave in rather than fighting on, which isn't something top faces should do. But I also feel there's probably more to the story, and am hoping that it's a long build. That said, I've spent the last year hoping that with Bryan to little joy, so my gut feeling is I don't like the story.

Rest of the show was good. Brock back and away from Punk is very good. Some good matches.

And Old School Raw next week! With DDP, Rikishi and Scotty (jezz, wonder who they'll dance with :rolleyes:), Piper, Flair....looking forward to that!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Very sloppy match so far.

Looks like Punk himself agrees :P - https://twitter.com/CMPunk/status/418031102818021377

Loughc

Jesus I just went on to wwe.com to watch the closing segment of Raw and the Raw results on wwe.com have fairly buried Bryan.

I've attached a screen of them!

And most of the dirtsheets are reporting Bryan isn't scheduled to win the Rumble or feature in any of the main event matches at WM either, I really hope they're wrong and Bryan is using the Wyatts to win the Rumble and have it come down to him and Bray Wyatt and have him eliminate Bray!

Looper007

Loughc wrote: »

Jesus I just went on to wwe.com to watch the closing segment of Raw and the Raw results on wwe.com have fairly buried Bryan.

I've attached a screen of them!

And most of the dirtsheets are reporting Bryan isn't scheduled to win the Rumble or feature in any of the main event matches at WM either, I really hope they're wrong and Bryan is using the Wyatts to win the Rumble and have it come down to him and Bray Wyatt and have him eliminate Bray!

Having one of your most over babyfaces in years not in the ME at WM 30 would go down as one of WWE's worse burials ever. But you have to take everything with a pinch of salt with the Dirtsheets.

The only way this whole Wyatt/Bryan thing should finish is at the Royal Rumble have as you said it be down to Wyatt and Bryan then have Bryan eliminate him, basically having him just use the Wyatt's to help him win the Rumble . Then face Wyatt in a blow off match at the EC and winning that then going into WM 30 going for the title. That's how it should work.

The way I see it going is, He eliminates Wyatt at the Rumble but gets eliminate himself by a Batista or Punk near the end. Has the blow off match at EC with Wyatt, beats him. Goes off into a mid card feud for WM 30, sadly I think he be on the card no doubt but will get a 15 minute match (maybe Kane) just to please his fan's and they actually get to chant YES!! and cheer Bryan's name but that it doesn't get in the way of their bigger matches. Maybe after WM he'll get his WWE title run somewhere in later 2014.

For me turning him heel is a bad idea but WWE has done a lot of bad things over the years. I think cause Batista and Brock are returning for WM, they haven't got anything for Bryan in the Main Event sadly. They are trying to give him something that won't overshadow their big stars returning and that fan's will forget him in a few weeks.

gerTheGreat

What happened after Bryan lost to Sheamus at Mania 28? He was more over than ever. Sometimes you have to trust that the WWE know how to manipulate its fans.

Looper007

gerTheGreat wrote: »

What happened after Bryan lost to Sheamus at Mania 28? He was more over than ever. Sometimes you have to trust that the WWE know how to manipulate its fans.

But the difference is now is Bryan is probably is one of WWE's top guy's right now. God knows where they will take this, I just have a sneaky feeling it's not going to end happily for us Bryan fan's, he's not going to win the Rumble cause it's going to be Batista so he and Orton will face at WM 30, not going to be HHH it seems Punk has him, not Taker as Brock is signed onto that one. Cena is left but turning Bryan heel would go into the top 10 biggest mistakes ever. I wait and see how it goes over the next few weeks but I'm not very confident that WWE will do the right thing.

Lord TSC

gerTheGreat wrote: »

What happened after Bryan lost to Sheamus at Mania 28? He was more over than ever. Sometimes you have to trust that the WWE know how to manipulate its fans.

Like hell did WWE mean to do that...if anything, that over ness was in protest to their awful booking of Bryan on that night.

gerTheGreat

Bryan can only be an underdog. It's unrealistic to treat him like a Cena or Orton. The thing about underdogs is that people tend to lose interest when they overcome. Bryan has to always fight the public's perception of the system to retain his levels of support.

gerTheGreat

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Like hell did WWE mean to do that...if anything, that over ness was in protest to their awful booking of Bryan on that night.

That's exactly my point. Pro wrestling is designed to manipulate public perception. By doing that to Bryan, more people got behind him.

rovert

GTR63 wrote: »

WWE are probably hoping him joining the Wyatts will put an end to those pesky YES chants that interupt the longwinded promos of the authority.

You are barking up the wrong tree there. This will increase them.

GTR63

rovert wrote: »

You are barking up the wrong tree there. This will increase them.

Always thought the chants were the loudest when Bryan was leading them. Think they might be going for the Bryan sympathy well a time too many as i`m skeptical about how much fans care about the Wyatts.

Moneymaker

Looper007 wrote: »

But the difference is now is Bryan is probably is one of WWE's top guy's right now. God knows where they will take this, I just have a sneaky feeling it's not going to end happily for us Bryan fan's, he's not going to win the Rumble cause it's going to be Batista so he and Orton will face at WM 30, not going to be HHH it seems Punk has him, not Taker as Brock is signed onto that one. Cena is left but turning Bryan heel would go into the top 10 biggest mistakes ever. I wait and see how it goes over the next few weeks but I'm not very confident that WWE will do the right thing.

Batista isn't winning the Rumble.

Palo Alto

Would love to see Batista as Rumble ironman :pac:

DM_7

Enjoyed the opening match. The way Punk picked on Ambrose and challenged the others to create some tension was well done. Loved Ambrose freaking out all during the match while Reigns gave Rollins a hard time for not letting him take on Punk. Glad they set up Reigns v Punk for next week.

The IC title match was even more enjoyable as I wasn't expecting such a good match. The smaller roster played a part here by allowing them the time but hopefully the unified title will allow for more significant IC title matches going forward.

Brocks return was also well executed. Henry was the perfect man to respond to Brock and Heyman saying nobody can do anything about it. That Brock attacked Henry straight away made Mark out to be a big threat so I hope they are having a match at the Rumble. The F5 was a brilliant moment.

Bryan giving in to the machine and accepting the offer from Wyatt to join the family was unexpected at this point as he never really gave an indication that he would consider it before last nights show. But the way he eventually did give in was an interesting way to end his year after all he was put through by the authority.

LOTD

I haven't seen any dirtsheet reports indicating that Bryan won't have a major role WM, if WWE creative don't know what to do with their most over guy it would be such a waste of a year, and totally clueless on their part. I'm hoping this feud with the Wyatts ends soon, while I don't mind the Wyatts, I rather see Bryan now go for the title now, there is still a lot of time for that to happen I guess. They should capitalise on Bryan's popularity sooner rather than later.

I hope we get to see Brock on a more regular basis leading up to WM, Heyman does a great job building up the feuds, but it's no substitute when you see the man himself in action.

CSF

I honestly am a little worried that people are still talking about this all leading to Bryan's big payoff. This thing with Bryan joining the Wyatts doesn't actually go anywhere, who do they feud with? Kingston and Miz? Goldust and Cody? Bryan should be higher in the card than all those, no disrespect intended to the latter 2, but this is the final act in the burial of Daniel Bryan.

Poor Batista also, now that Brock is back there is no reason for anyone to be excited by him. If Brock hadn't come back tonight, I honestly think that finish would have led to me giving up watching. Pure and utter dogsh*t. I'd wish a concussion on Bray Wyatt or something to take him off the screen for a few weeks but to do that he'd have to actually f*cking wrestle.

I love Mark Henry but I f*cking love Brock Lesnar even more. Please make that a PPV match

Mokuba

Well then. All part of the big picture.

Honestly don't think anybody knows where this is going, but it can't be anywhere good. Take your most over guy and turn him heel to join a faction of mid-carders who are nothing after their gimmick. I can't see them turning him back any time soon - why would they?

There aren't many words for this really. Just kind of rounds off the worst WWE year I can remember in all my years watching. From Cena (really, like, really..) winning the Royal Rumble for his predictable rematch with the out-of-shape Rock, to the most predictable WM I've ever seen, to just about everything after Summerslam being complete and utter shít.

They obviously realised that they missed the boat with Austin never joining the Brood and want to make up for it. Good job creative.

mrkiscool2

Anyone that thinks Bryan joining the Wyatts is dead wrong. Let's look at the facts, shall we?

• Bryan is super-over. That won't change because he is joining the Wyatts. He looked very conflicted in doing so
• The Wyatts are Trips pet project. Who is now head of creative? That's right kids, HHH. I think that means he has a plan in place for good auld D-Bry
• Where else was there for the feud to go? Had it resulted in the Wyatts going over Bryan we would have complained about how far he has fallen, had Bryan one we would have scoffed because 1 man shouldn't beat 3.
• If Bryan is going to get his revenge on The Authortiy (as we all want him too) wouldn't giving him 3 big men help him with that? I think it's a good way to build to a potential match against either Trips or maybe even HBK

Mokuba

gerTheGreat wrote: »

What happened after Bryan lost to Sheamus at Mania 28? He was more over than ever. Sometimes you have to trust that the WWE know how to manipulate its fans.

LOL.

CSF

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Anyone that thinks Bryan joining the Wyatts is dead wrong. Let's look at the facts, shall we?

• Bryan is super-over. That won't change because he is joining the Wyatts. He looked very conflicted in doing so
• The Wyatts are Trips pet project. Who is now head of creative? That's right kids, HHH. I think that means he has a plan in place for good auld D-Bry
• Where else was there for the feud to go? Had it resulted in the Wyatts going over Bryan we would have complained about how far he has fallen, had Bryan one we would have scoffed because 1 man shouldn't beat 3.
• If Bryan is going to get his revenge on The Authortiy (as we all want him too) wouldn't giving him 3 big men help him with that? I think it's a good way to build to a potential match against either Trips or maybe even HBK

1) It probably will change to an extent. Nobody (well most people) wants to watch the Wyatts. That makes any match he is in immediately less
interesting.
2) Any plan that involves Daniel Bryan as a Wyatt is a terrible plan, HHH hasn't exactly been pulling in the amazing storylines as head of creative so far, has he?
3) Nobody would have scoffed, the majority just want the feud over no matter how. It doesn't have to be a good ending, it just has to end.
4) Bryan turning heel means he isn't going to be going after The Authority. A face Bray Wyatt sounds even worse than a heel one, and that is pretty f*cking bad.

Mokuba

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Anyone that thinks Bryan joining the Wyatts is dead wrong. Let's look at the facts, shall we?

• Bryan is super-over. That won't change because he is joining the Wyatts. He looked very conflicted in doing so
• The Wyatts are Trips pet project. Who is now head of creative? That's right kids, HHH. I think that means he has a plan in place for good auld D-Bry
• Where else was there for the feud to go? Had it resulted in the Wyatts going over Bryan we would have complained about how far he has fallen, had Bryan one we would have scoffed because 1 man shouldn't beat 3.
• If Bryan is going to get his revenge on The Authortiy (as we all want him too) wouldn't giving him 3 big men help him with that? I think it's a good way to build to a potential match against either Trips or maybe even HBK

I like how you decided to "look at the facts" when all you really did was state your opinion and dress it up as being fact.

1. Yes Bryan is super over. Of course his popularity will be damaged by joining a mid-card heel faction who draws no reaction except for when Bray does the Exorcist or when they walk to the ring.
2. Why do you still assume Bryan is getting his big win when LITERALLY every single sign has pointed to this not happening.
3. Eh, the feud should have ended with Daniel Bryan, the most over guy in the company, beating the gimmick mid-card heel faction and going off to a real feud.
4. How does Bryan's pairing with a heel faction help him to overcome another heel faction? How exactly, does that make sense in any way?

Moneymaker

Why is it CSF and Mokuba almost always post around the same time and have the same opinions...?

CSF

Moneymaker wrote: »

Why is it CSF and Mokuba almost always post around the same time and have the same opinions...?

Ah here, are you serious?

gnfnrhead

No wifey This time next week she will have overtaken Beth Phoenix and moved into second place for longest title reign. The Rumble will put her first. Just a shame all the worthwhile opponents are on her side due to the continued Total Divas crap.

I have zero faith in that finish leading to anything good for Bryan. Every week moves him further and further away from a headlining spot at Wrestlemania. It's very hard to see where exactly he can fit in now.

gerTheGreat wrote: »

Bryan can only be an underdog. It's unrealistic to treat him like a Cena or Orton. The thing about underdogs is that people tend to lose interest when they overcome. Bryan has to always fight the public's perception of the system to retain his levels of support.

The thing about babyfaces is that people tend to lose interest when they NEVER overcome.

CSF

gnfnrhead wrote: »

No wifey This time next week she will have overtaken Beth Phoenix and moved into second place for longest title reign. The Rumble will put her first. Just a shame all the worthwhile opponents are on her side due to the continued Total Divas crap.

I have zero faith in that finish leading to anything good for Bryan. Every week moves him further and further away from a headlining spot at Wrestlemania. It's very hard to see where exactly he can fit in now.



The thing about babyfaces is that people tend to lose interest when they NEVER overcome.

Not even looking for a Wrestlemania headline spot at this point, anything significant, Lesnar, Batista, Undertaker would do. Realistically it looks as though they've decided upon a Bryan vs Wyatt Wrestlemania decider, which makes me really sad, and since I'm the same person as Mokuba apparently, it obviously makes him sad too, which makes me sad.

Mokuba

CSF wrote: »

Not even looking for a Wrestlemania headline spot at this point, anything significant, Lesnar, Batista, Undertaker would do. Realistically it looks as though they've decided upon a Bryan vs Wyatt Wrestlemania decider, which makes me really sad, and since I'm the same person as Mokuba apparently, it obviously makes him sad too, which makes me sad.

Secrets out, damn. At least they didn't find out about the 3rd alter ego gnfnrhead because hating the Wyatt's and having logical opinions about Bryan means you must be the same person! Wait, Oops!

CSF

Mokuba wrote: »

Secrets out, damn. At least they didn't find out about the 3rd alter ego gnfnrhead because hating the Wyatt's and having logical opinions about Bryan means you must be the same person! Wait, Oops!

And we're all online at the same time..........AGAIN!!!!

Moneymaker

Yeah, you should form your own stable.

Call it The Three Marks.

The biggest WM of all time is right around the corner and you all think Daniel Bryan should be winning the title and being in the main event? And if doesn't he's "buried".

Get real.

I'm as big a fan of the man as anyone but that simply isn't going to happen.

And you all seem to have made up your minds about the Wyatts already so it doesn't really matter how good or bad they are, or become.

I enjoyed the closing segment and I know many others that did too. And I, along with many others enjoy the Bray Wyatt character(he shouldn't be anywhere near a ring though).

If Bryan wins the Rumble and then the strap at WM people would whine its "too predicitible" and now they're actually trying something different he's being "buried".

You just can't please some people.

DM_7

Its worth mentioning that the last 40 mins or so of RAW was all about Bryan. It happened in the main event and was given a lot of time.

People may not like or enjoy the storyline but he is presented as a key part of the show. He regularly gets wins over all the mid carders to keep him looking strong (Fandango, Sandow in recent weeks, regularly beating Harper and Rowan).

While involved in the current storyline he is still invloved with the concurrent and linked storyline of him v the Authority, a couple of weeks ago he was facing Orton in a RAW main event whete Orton had to use a low blow to escape Bryan. Just before that in the main event of RAW that he was kneeing HBK in the face.

How many people have two storylines going on at the same time? He is getting treated as a very important superstar.

For me he is not even close to getting buried. WWE unified the titles and at the moment the top Heel and the actual top face are feuding over it. I would prefer Bryan to be involved but since he isn't I am content to see him in what WWE are presenting as an important feud.

J. Marston

“@RMB316: @CMPunk IM sure you hear this a lot. Good match on #Raw really enjoyed it. Keep it up all the best in 2014” it was garbage.

Punk being pissy.

(That's new...)

CSF

Moneymaker wrote: »

Yeah, you should form your own stable.

Call it The Three Marks.

The biggest WM of all time is right around the corner and you all think Daniel Bryan should be winning the title and being in the main event? And if doesn't he's "buried".

Get real.

I'm as big a fan of the man as anyone but that simply isn't going to happen.

And you all seem to have made up your minds about the Wyatts already so it doesn't really matter how good or bad they are, or become.

I enjoyed the closing segment and I know many others that did too. And I, along with many others enjoy the Bray Wyatt character(he shouldn't be anywhere near a ring though).

If Bryan wins the Rumble and then the strap at WM people would whine its "too predicitible" and now they're actually trying something different he's being "buried".

You just can't please some people.

If you read up 2 posts, you will see that I'd really settle for anything that gives the man the reward to cap off the year that he has deserved. He should have been given a run with the title though. He has been magnificent.

You're entitled to like Bray Wyatt, I'm entitled to think he is absolute dog****.

ricero

The wyatts are awesome

Moneymaker

J. Marston wrote: »

Punk being pissy.

(That's new...)

His twitter is quite depressing lately.

He shouldn't be throwing Rollins under the bus like that though.

It was a sloppy match early on but it definitely picked up and i'd be pointing the finger at him more then Rollins.

I don't think he'll be around much longer tbh, he's always said he'll be retiring fairly soon.

CSF

DM-ICE wrote: »

Its worth mentioning that the last 40 mins or so of RAW was all about Bryan. It happened in the main event and was given a lot of time.

People may not like or enjoy the storyline but he is presented as a key part of the show. He regularly gets wins over all the mid carders to keep him looking strong (Fandango, Sandow in recent weeks, regularly beating Harper and Rowan).

While involved in the current storyline he is still invloved with the concurrent and linked storyline of him v the Authority, a couple of weeks ago he was facing Orton in a RAW main event whete Orton had to use a low blow to escape Bryan. Just before that in the main event of RAW that he was kneeing HBK in the face.

How many people have two storylines going on at the same time? He is getting treated as a very important superstar.

For me he is not even close to getting buried. WWE unified the titles and at the moment the top Heel and the actual top face are feuding over it. I would prefer Bryan to be involved but since he isn't I am content to see him in what WWE are presenting as an important feud.

He just joined the Wyatts. If there is one man who doesn't need to be in any stable, it is Daniel Bryan, never mind the Wyatts, never mind not even being the leader of said stable. Just give the man something decent to do, a rivalry with Cena where they don't just backpat each other would be fine, another go at Orton if he is going to finally take the title, Lesnar and Batista are back, Undertaker will be back in town, CM Punk and Bryan would have potential if it was twisted the right way. There are some of them I would like to see alot more than others, but give him something decent to do. He has been phenomenal all year.