What to do?

Karl96

I'm really stuck on what to do and would love some help or ideas!
Up until recently, medicine was hands down my first choice as a career, however, I've looked more into the quality of life that a med student has and their life as an intern and junior doctor, and suddenly becoming a doctor doesn't seem as appealing anymore, realistically you aren't finished college until you are 24 or 25, following on from that a year as an intern and many years of hard work following that working unholy hours, leading to you missing out on the best part of your twenties. I like science and enjoy working with people and feel capable of getting the points so medicine seemed ideal but now I'm not so sure. I also enjoy maths, and I've looked into math courses more recently and the job prospects for math graduates seem good and you graduate at 22 or 23 and are employed quite soon after. A job in maths would give you the chance to enjoy your life whilst being in a good job, this is becoming increasingly appealing.
Any thoughts on what to do.. I'm stuck in a bit of a dilemma! Thanks!

spurious

What did you find attractive about medicine that isn't as attractive when you see what the reality is? Many people still go into Medicine, knowing what an awful job it is for years until someone gets established.

What do you want to do?
Make lots of money?
Have an easy job?
Have a job you can leave at work every day?
Have a comfortable lifestyle?
Help people?
Feel challenged?

You need to work out what is important for you in terms of job satisfaction. It sounds like you're lucky, in that you will probably be getting high points, so can choose almost any career. Many Maths graduates become actuaries.

Karl96

Ideally, I'd like to have a comfortable life where I can contribute to society and be challenged in my work yet be able to enjoy life. The hours as a doctor in the early days are the least appealing aspect whereas the hours as a maths graduate are much more agreeable. Salary really isn't that important to me as both courses result in well rewarded jobs.
I would also love to be able to keep playing Gaelic football but to choose medicine would render this almost impossible.

What the quality of life would be as a student and then in work is what will probably sway my decision in the end.

spurious

For a high achiever, the accountancy game is still a good one to get into, or actuary, as I mentioned before. Neither of those careers are going to go away and they can both give you an opportunity to travel, once you start to move up the ranks.

Karl96

I don't do accounting so I'll probably look into actuary a bit more and see how that goes. Thanks for the advice!

DK man

U don't need accountancy to study it in university....

Two very different careers - one s very people centred with a high degree of science knowledge and the other one is more problem solving and sorting out and tracking flows of money.

R u natural helper a carer? Do you have a passion for science? Medicine would no doubt be very demanding - do u like pushing yourself to your limits. Being a good communicator and enjoying team work would be important. As a doctor you could have a real positive contribution to make to others and I'm sure it's very rewarding when you've helped someone in a significant way

R u more interested in working things out and enjoy working within systems. Actuary would no doubt suit a person who would enjoy spending hours buried in figures and sketching a wide range of variables based on different possibilities - you would probably be working on your own most of the day and have to attend occasional meetings

Would you have to give up the football? You'd probably have to be very organised and disciplined in how you spend your time t I know doctors who had interesting hobbies when they were training.

Best of luck with your decision

Karl96

Thanks for the help! I'm sort of leaning towards maths or actuarial and financial studies now after what you've said however I'm not ruling out medicine yet! Both are appealing but its just a matter of deciding what I want from life I suppose now.
Knowing me I'll make my decision on the 30th June!!

spurious

Rule nothing out and if you need to take another year to decide, do it.

Nothing worse than ending up in a course your parents/career guidance person/teachers thought would suit you. Do what you would like to do. If that turns out to be a course you can get into with 240 points, so be it. Far better to be really successful in a course you really like, than to plod along in one you hate but got into because you could get high points.

Pythia

Karl96 wrote: »

Thanks for the help! I'm sort of leaning towards maths or actuarial and financial studies now after what you've said however I'm not ruling out medicine yet! Both are appealing but its just a matter of deciding what I want from life I suppose now.
Knowing me I'll make my decision on the 30th June!!

Just remember that something like actuary or accountant will require working and studying at the same time after college is over. Those jobs will also mean you have a lot of hard work to do after college.

I love my job as an actuary but I would warn you it's a big commitment and many academically strong people can't get through it.

djpbarry

Karl96 wrote: »

I like science and enjoy working with people and feel capable of getting the points...

...

I also enjoy maths...

There's a rather glaring omission in your list of potential careers. Why are you not considering becoming a scientist? Or an engineer?

Karl96

Pythia wrote: »

Just remember that something like actuary or accountant will require working and studying at the same time after college is over. Those jobs will also mean you have a lot of hard work to do after college.

I love my job as an actuary but I would warn you it's a big commitment and many academically strong people can't get through it.

Just on your job as an actuary, are you hours manageable in that you have time for hobbies etc? Do you feel you lead a comfortable life now you are an actuary?

Karl96

djpbarry wrote: »

There's a rather glaring omission in your list of potential careers. Why are you not considering becoming a scientist? Or an engineer?

I have considered these and I am still considering science, biomedical science in particular, however, I would prefer medicine or a maths course. I have looked into engineering in the past and it doesn't interest me unfortunately!

djpbarry

Karl96 wrote: »

I have considered these and I am still considering science, biomedical science in particular, however, I would prefer medicine or a maths course. I have looked into engineering in the past and it doesn't interest me unfortunately!

The only reason I suggest it is that you're likely to have far greater opportunity to be engaged in both maths and science if you were to opt for a science degree. It will also leave you with plenty of options - you could still do a medical conversion if you wanted to, for example.

Boardzee

DK man wrote: »

Two very different careers - one s very people centred with a high degree of science knowledge and the other one is more problem solving and sorting out and tracking flows of money.

Forgive me, but for a second I thought the first one you were referring to was an actuary!

OP, I was in the same shoes as you back around Christmas of the Leaving Cert. People thought I was strange because I was torn between two such different things. And Medicine and Actuarial Science are. In the end, I chose the actuarial route because of the nature of the work, life as a doctor just seemed too stressful for me. I'm graduating this year and if I did it all again, I'd still pick what I did. Everybody however wants different things in life so it's only really you that can decide what's right for you.

Regarding what DK man said above, the actuarial world is becoming more and more people centred and there is a huge role for actuarial consultancy - explaining complex actuarial solutions in simple language that anyone can understand. Being able to deal with people and communicate effectively is becoming almost as important, if not more, as being able to do the maths. Anyone would go off their head if work involved nothing more than crunching numbers on a spreadsheet all day, but I think it's safe to say that the Actuarial professional is moving away from this image.

Karl96

Boardzee wrote: »

OP, I was in the same shoes as you back around Christmas of the Leaving Cert. People thought I was strange because I was torn between two such different things. And Medicine and Actuarial Science are. In the end, I chose the actuarial route because of the nature of the work, life as a doctor just seemed too stressful for me.

Being able to deal with people and communicate effectively is becoming almost as important, if not more, as being able to do the maths.

That is almost exactly the predicament I am in at the minute! What is drawing me away from medicine is the unsociable hours you'd have to work and generally the lifestyle. I value my leisure time and would love to be able to keep up my hobbies so given what you've said Actuarial Science seems ideal.

One of the draws of medicine for me was dealing with people and dealing with patients and helping them, now the actuarial world is moving in that direction its really beginning to appeal. I wasn't aware of this up until now so thank you for your feedback.

I feel I'm a very capable maths student and a good communicator so at the moment, this seems like an excellent course.

If you have anymore tips or advice I'd gladly welcome it!

sock puppet

Is your problem with medicine the long hours or the unsociable hours? Consulting actuaries work long enough hours on weekdays, particularly when you add in study, though you'll get time off for that too.

Boardzee

Karl96 wrote: »

That is almost exactly the predicament I am in at the minute! What is drawing me away from medicine is the unsociable hours you'd have to work and generally the lifestyle. I value my leisure time and would love to be able to keep up my hobbies so given what you've said Actuarial Science seems ideal.

One of the draws of medicine for me was dealing with people and dealing with patients and helping them, now the actuarial world is moving in that direction its really beginning to appeal. I wasn't aware of this up until now so thank you for your feedback.

I feel I'm a very capable maths student and a good communicator so at the moment, this seems like an excellent course.

If you have anymore tips or advice I'd gladly welcome it!

In terms of keeping up hobbies during college, there's no reason studying either would hold you back. A lot of the medical students in UCD I know are big into all sorts of sports from GAA to rowing and heavily involved in societies. The actuarial students don't seem to get involved as much unfortunately but that's more out of laziness than anything else; I played hurling in first year and took up rowing in second and third year and if anything, it actually helps with the study and grades.

In terms of the actual college work involved for both subjects, I think they're very similar. I live with a med student and I'm friends with a few others in different years from sport, but come study week and crunch time, mates from my course would be in the library a bit longer than the med lads I know so it's no easier during college.

In terms of work after college, like becoming a doctor, there are lots of different areas you can go working in - life insurance, general insurance, pensions, reinsurance, investments, consultancy to investment banking and trading. As Sock Puppet mentioned above, you'll still have a few exams to do after finishing college, but nearly all companies are very generous with study leave and support; if you're on the ball you'll be done in 2-3 years. A lot of actuaries these days also go into management so again, I see being able to deal with people properly is a skill if you want to go far.

Actuarial graduates from UCD have gone on to doing Graduate Entry Medicine so if you changed your mind down the line, people have done it before, just be aware of what the costs of doing it are.
I wouldn't read into it too much, but every year the Wall Street Journal publish a list of the best and worst jobs based on the WSJ's criteria, here's the list for 2013:
http://blogs.wsj.com/atwork/2013/04/22/dust-off-your-math-skills-actuary-is-best-job-of-2013/
Actuary has been in the top 5 for the last 4 years now.

Karl96

sock puppet wrote: »

Is your problem with medicine the long hours or the unsociable hours? Consulting actuaries work long enough hours on weekdays, particularly when you add in study, though you'll get time off for that too.

primarily the unsociable hours which wouldn't allow me to participate in other things outside of work

Karl96

Boardzee wrote: »

In terms of keeping up hobbies during college, there's no reason studying either would hold you back. A lot of the medical students in UCD I know are big into all sorts of sports from GAA to rowing and heavily involved in societies. The actuarial students don't seem to get involved as much unfortunately but that's more out of laziness than anything else; I played hurling in first year and took up rowing in second and third year and if anything, it actually helps with the study and grades.

In terms of the actual college work involved for both subjects, I think they're very similar. I live with a med student and I'm friends with a few others in different years from sport, but come study week and crunch time, mates from my course would be in the library a bit longer than the med lads I know so it's no easier during college.

In terms of work after college, like becoming a doctor, there are lots of different areas you can go working in - life insurance, general insurance, pensions, reinsurance, investments, consultancy to investment banking and trading. As Sock Puppet mentioned above, you'll still have a few exams to do after finishing college, but nearly all companies are very generous with study leave and support; if you're on the ball you'll be done in 2-3 years. A lot of actuaries these days also go into management so again, I see being able to deal with people properly is a skill if you want to go far.

Actuarial graduates from UCD have gone on to doing Graduate Entry Medicine so if you changed your mind down the line, people have done it before, just be aware of what the costs of doing it are.
I wouldn't read into it too much, but every year the Wall Street Journal publish a list of the best and worst jobs based on the WSJ's criteria, here's the list for 2013:
http://blogs.wsj.com/atwork/2013/04/22/dust-off-your-math-skills-actuary-is-best-job-of-2013/
Actuary has been in the top 5 for the last 4 years now.

Yeah but I can envisage keeping up hobbies as a doctor starting out as an intern being quite difficult so actuarial science seems quite appealing in that sense.

Doing exams after college wouldn't concern me too much, of course work will be required but I'd rather study for an exam than work 36 hour shifts.

At the UCD open day the speaker made sure it was known that mathematical jobs rated very highly in the Wall Street Journal list haha, he also said job prospects are quite good, despite the current economic climate.

Pythia

Karl96 wrote: »

Just on your job as an actuary, are you hours manageable in that you have time for hobbies etc? Do you feel you lead a comfortable life now you are an actuary?

I am actually hoping to qualify this summer. The salaries as a qualified actuary are good - probably 70-80k starting off, rising upwards quickly.

I still enjoy everything people who don't study do like nights out, shopping, lie ins etc. I do not play sport however. I have passed every exam except one first time by studying when I am supposed to which means you can relax when you want to.

Another interesting fact is there are unlikely to be any unemployed actuaries in Ireland. Demand is very high and we will get frequent cold calls asking us if we want to change job.

Another thing to remember is 99% of actuary jobs are in Dublin so be prepared to live in Dublin or London or similar.

Actuary was rated no1 job in a big American job survey recently.

But all these positives aside, if you do not love (not just like) maths and find it very easy, I would not do it.

Karl96

Pythia wrote: »

I am actually hoping to qualify this summer. The salaries as a qualified actuary are good - probably 70-80k starting off, rising upwards quickly.

I still enjoy everything people who don't study do like nights out, shopping, lie ins etc. I do not play sport however. I have passed every exam except one first time by studying when I am supposed to which means you can relax when you want to.

Another interesting fact is there are unlikely to be any unemployed actuaries in Ireland. Demand is very high and we will get frequent cold calls asking us if we want to change job.

Another thing to remember is 99% of actuary jobs are in Dublin so be prepared to live in Dublin or London or similar.

Actuary was rated no1 job in a big American job survey recently.

But all these positives aside, if you do not love (not just like) maths and find it very easy, I would not do it.

Actuary seems like and ideal job, a very good profession. Living in Dublin wouldn't faze me in the slightest, I think I'd actually enjoy living there a lot.

I really enjoy maths and I find the higher level leaving cert material relatively easy so I think I would be able to cope with the course, it seems challenging and enjoyable.