Farming and Relationships

brownswiss

AP2014 wrote: »

You are right, it has nothing to do with your uncle, that seems like just a tragic case of a domineering mother and your uncle lost a lady he loved and regretted it and brought it to his death bed. That is just tragic.

I have no intention of withdrawing my statement. Jesus it is fairly common knowledge to anyone who lived in the countryside the last 40 years!

I have lived here a lot more than 40 yrs and I have not that " common knowledge ". I am not disputing the facts but I am saying I do not know what you are saying to be a fact.

brownswiss

AP2014 wrote: »

Totally agree and good chance the priest was gay. Also good chance that a bachelor in the countryside over the last 40 years was actually gay and homophobic Ireland as it was then meant he had to struggle with it and live a lonely life.

..

I had to smile at your response to my post... You could be right.... Friendly Ireland could have been a hostile and lonely home for some

Kovu

Guys......please

AP2014

brownswiss wrote: »

I have lived here a lot more than 40 yrs and I have not that " common knowledge ". I am not disputing the facts but I am saying I do not know what you are saying to be a fact.

Look you can bury your head in the sand if you like, drive around the countryside and you will meet many of these men. I am sure alot of guys on here would surely know people like this but it is amazing they are nearly afraid to say it here on an anonymous internet forum.

It reminds me abit of the rampant denial of child abusive by the catholic church amongst a certain type of folk even after all the facts and cases were published. To this day they would still deny it. We live in a very conservative country only really changing the last 10 years but slowly..

Reggie.

Take a step away from the keyboard and take a breath people

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

Take a step away from the keyboard and take a breath people

Reggie, I believe you are from Moate/Mullingar direction. I am sure you would know a gay bachelor farmer and gay priest from that area. I certainly know of the priest anyway, has abit of an alcohol problem and crashes the odd car:D

Jesus sounds like an episode of father ted but its the truth!

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Reggie, I believe you are from Moate/Mullingar direction. I am sure you would know a gay bachelor farmer and gay priest from that area. I certainly know of the priest anyway, has abit of an alcohol problem and crashes the odd car:D

Jesus sounds like an episode of father ted but its the truth!

Careful now ted

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

Careful now ted

Haha not sure if the poor man is still alive, think he is dead. He was some ticket used to be some great stories about him.

Kovu

A bit before my time when talking about bachelors around now but surely we all know of people who wouldn't be as socially outgoing or adept around women as all ye witty people. Perhaps some were gay yes, but clearly we can't tar everyone with the same brush just because they never married.

Jesus, the mothers in those days were battle axes and rightly so, trying to get a husband that didn't drink away the fair day money and then trying to get a wife for the son that was as good as herself at ordering him about. My own grandmother didn't marry until she was 38 because her husband had to wait for another of the family to move out before she could move in. Around here there were three auld farmers, one got married there last year at the sprightly age of 80, the other is as shy as they come and would just about speak to you & then the final one passed away a few years ago as the same thing happened- no woman was good enough for his mother to allow into her home. Despite the man in question 'walking out' with a great aunt of mine for years.

For that matter, there are schoolmates of mine getting married but I'm not planning on it, is my sexuality going to be questioned :rolleyes:

I'm a total city girl now, but I grew up rural, albeit not farming background. Lots of my school friends married farmers. Rural life doesn't suit everyone, nor does farming life - but to some it's not just appealing, an absolute must. I still have friends, both from city and country, who would love to date a farmer! Not for money, not for land, not for a paddock for the pony, but because for the right man, they wouldn't overlook on the grounds of his livelihood.

Hint - if a girl mentions she likes horses, you could be onto a winner!

I love horses and grew up with them, and the thought of owning my own horse again is the only thing that would drag me out of the city into the countryside!

Base price

Getting back on track....
I don't think it matters a twit if you are a farmer or not. There are many other occupations that require employees to work unsavoury hours/smells - Garda, vets, doctors, airline pilots/stewards, chefs etc. Some of them are on call over weekends, work double shifts etc.
Any relationship needs a good firm foundation in order to flourish and grow.
If ye both can dig the foundations straight and keep the sides from caving in then ye are heading in the right direction.

onyerbikepat

Base price wrote: »

A true story from before my time -
My Uncle met a nice girl and began courting her. When my Grandmother found out who the girl was she immediately forbid my Uncle from seeing this girl again. Threatened to disown him etc because she did not consider this girl to be good enough for her darling son. My Mam (Uncle's sister), Dad and Granddad tried to intervene at the time but to no avail. My Uncle remained a bachelor until his death.
Thankfully those days are gone now but the legacy still lives on. There are many elderly single men and women living around me due to similar interference from parents

I've heard almost the exact same story. One of my Dad's best friends was to be left a fairly large size farm by an aunt. She didn't approve of the girl he was going out with at the time and made him break it off with her. It was either that or loose the farm. He never married but was left the place. Funny thing is she married agian and I know her son fairly well. I heard the story from both my Dad and my Uncle, so it ain't bullsh1t.
Sad, but I think we inherited our own petty class system from the old enemy.

Username John

AP2014 wrote: »

Of course in some cases like your uncles it is due to circumstance, but no doubt the vast majority of bachelors were gay men as was the case with priesthood. .

No doubt some were gay - but I don't know if the "vast majority" were gay.

I agree with you that Ireland 40 years was not a tolerant place, and sometimes you'd wonder is it tolerant now.

But to say the vast majority, I think is too simple. There are more factors at play than sexual orientation.

I would say there more people single cos of domineering / strict parents than being gay.

There would have been a few bacholer brothers down my way years ago - and I think in two cases, it was said that they were bachelors as they never allowed out. Up until they were in their late 20s they were still treated as children almost, and told what to do.
You can say "why didn't they just go / have the courage of their own convictions" but it's easy to talk... Put yourself in their positions, where they were probably emotionally manipulated every day of their life...

But, no one knows for sure, everyone is different, has their own story...

Nekarsulm

And in a similar vein to Username John's post, sectarianism managed to interfere as well. I know of one case personally, and others anecdotally whereby a son was told in no uncertain terms, to drop a girl from another religious persuasion, or pack his bags and go.
Unfortunately, they usually caved in to the parents wishes.

Base price

Nekarsulm wrote: »

And in a similar vein to Username John's post, sectarianism managed to interfere as well. I know of one case personally, and others anecdotally whereby a son was told in no uncertain terms, to drop a girl from another religious persuasion, or pack his bags and go.
Unfortunately, they usually caved in to the parents wishes.

Thankfully times have moved on a bit. Know of a few happy "mixed" marriages

Charliebull

I'm fcuking wrecked just reading all that,
Genghis look what you did

AP2014

Kovu wrote: »

A bit before my time when talking about bachelors around now but surely we all know of people who wouldn't be as socially outgoing or adept around women as all ye witty people. Perhaps some were gay yes, but clearly we can't tar everyone with the same brush just because they never married.

Jesus, the mothers in those days were battle axes and rightly so, trying to get a husband that didn't drink away the fair day money and then trying to get a wife for the son that was as good as herself at ordering him about. My own grandmother didn't marry until she was 38 because her husband had to wait for another of the family to move out before she could move in. Around here there were three auld farmers, one got married there last year at the sprightly age of 80, the other is as shy as they come and would just about speak to you & then the final one passed away a few years ago as the same thing happened- no woman was good enough for his mother to allow into her home. Despite the man in question 'walking out' with a great aunt of mine for years.

For that matter, there are schoolmates of mine getting married but I'm not planning on it, is my sexuality going to be questioned :rolleyes:

Feckin Irish mammies and emotional manipulation. That was some age for your grandmother to get married back then when the average age was early 20's probably.

Fair play to that fella at the age of 80. Was she a looker? In her 20's?

Kovu

AP2014 wrote: »

Feckin Irish mammies and emotional manipulation. That was some age for your grandmother to get married back then when the average age was early 20's probably.

Fair play to that fella at the age of 80. Was she a looker? In her 20's?

She's still alive at 94, he must have been a good husband

Nope, she was oldish as well. They seem happy anyway and he's stopped trying to chat me up every time I'm down helping out with calves.

AP2014

Kovu wrote: »

She's still alive at 94, he must have been a good husband

Nope, she was oldish as well. They seem happy anyway and he's stopped trying to chat me up every time I'm down helping out with calves.

If he is still alive he is doing well anyway. Must be keeping him young.:D

Jaysus would ya not have married him for the land? Had he many acres?

Kovu

AP2014 wrote: »

Jaysus would ya not have married him for the land? Had he many acres?

Is this where I'm supposed to adopt a sanctimonious attitude? Hang on til I find that tall horse of mine....

AP2014

Kovu wrote: »

Is this where I'm supposed to adopt a sanctimonious attitude? Hang on til I find that tall horse of mine....

Ha leave that behind and cash in. Sure you could have wore him out in a year or two. :pac: You missed the boat there.

brownswiss

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a total city girl now, but I grew up rural, albeit not farming background. Lots of my school friends married farmers. Rural life doesn't suit everyone, nor does farming life - but to some it's not just appealing, an absolute must. I still have friends, both from city and country, who would love to date a farmer! Not for money, not for land, not for a paddock for the pony, but because for the right man, they wouldn't overlook on the grounds of his livelihood.

Hint - if a girl mentions she likes horses, you could be onto a winner!

I love horses and grew up with them, and the thought of owning my own horse again is the only thing that would drag me out of the city into the countryside!

...

I can fix you up with the perfect... horse

Fuxake

Base price wrote: »

Thankfully times have moved on a bit. Know of a few happy "mixed" marriages

Sadly I also know that there is fair amount of intolerance of mixed marriages still among the minority faith - by the parents and there is a lot of pressure put on sons/ daughters in farming circles to marry in their own faith

AP2014

Fuxake wrote: »

Sadly I also know that there is fair amount of intolerance of mixed marriages still among the minority faith - by the parents and there is a lot of pressure put on sons/ daughters in farming circles to marry in their own faith

Definitely and same with sexual orientation, slowing it is improving. No doubt alot of heads buried in the sand about what happened in the past though.

Fuxake

AP2014 wrote: »

Shame he hadn't the courage in his own convictions to tell his mother where to go. Unfortunately no doubt this still happens.

Of course in some cases like your uncles it is due to circumstance, but no doubt the vast majority of bachelors were gay men as was the case with priesthood. Unfortunately alot of these men lead lonely lives, alot due from pressures from society. Could you imagine two men moving in together to farm in North Longford 30 years ago? I am not far from you and unfortunately it would just about be tolerated now. As a country we still have a bit to go on certain issues.

Land grabbing husband/wife? :cool: Now these miserable lads and ladies deserve to be single.

Maybe as ever with AP there's a bit of sweeping generalisation which causes controversy/ entertainment/ annoyance but in fairness also provotes much needed debate whether on lack of profit or we need to face up to reality.

I think that the huge prevalence of bachelors/ priests/ nuns who grew up in rural Ireland of the 20th century is a complete aberration/ unnatural state of affairs.
Of course, there are various reasons- almost none of which reflect well on rural Irish society of the time. Some of the reactions here suggest that old attitudes still linger. Sure, some bachelors were just awkward in social settings. Some were terrified of their own sexual desires- straight or gay. Some were terrified of upsetting conservative, bigoted or snobby parents who would disinherit them rather than leave go of the control freakery and prejudice.

And some were and are undoubtedly gay.

Demanding facts is a bit pointless. While some gay advocates say 10% of the population is gay, I suspect that's a bit exaggerated. BUt we can say with certainty that there are at least 4 gays in the Dail and a few more in the Seanad. So if there's that proportion in a population of 226 (dail & senate) then it follows that theres some in every village. But here's the thing- the numbers are almost certainly way short of the real story because people are still unable to come out.

I know of 2 cases of people from the one rural area. One is a rampant alcoholic and now an OAP. Also he was a hurler, a ferocious hard physical worker, occassionally a womaniser of sorts, frequently a misogynist. Never came out, probably drank to excess all his life to hide from the reality. THe second- depressed in his twenties, great professoinal career in his thirites and nearly threw it all away by becoming excessively religious and entered a seminary for 18 months before exiting again. Now in his forties. Both grew up in a farming community and were involved. Both are undoubtedly gay and neither have come out. It's terribly sad and it is partially down to the fact that they can't come to terms with it or else can't face a society that doesn't want to grow up and face facts.

Final point..do you really think that all those priests who used go round the dancehalls of the 1950s assaulting young couples who were having a harmless snog were motivated by Godliness or was it some repressed sexual frustration?

Genghis Cant

Charliebull wrote: »

I'm fcuking wrecked just reading all that,
Genghis look what you did

I can't be held responsible for the moronic ramblings of someone else.
I get it hard enough to be responsible for myself :-)

Base price

Fuxake wrote: »

Sadly I also know that there is fair amount of intolerance of mixed marriages still among the minority faith - by the parents and there is a lot of pressure put on sons/ daughters in farming circles to marry in their own faith

The wheel is turning slowly - but thankfully it is turning in the right direction.
Hopefully before my time has passed on this world, I will see equality irrespective of religion, sexual orientation or skin tone.
Having said that I reckon that our different views regarding religious beliefs (Christianity/Buddhism/Hindu/Islam/Judaism etc) will be, as they seem to have always been, the same auld sticking point that unfortunately prevents us from moving forward in unison.

AP2014

Fuxake wrote: »

Maybe as ever with AP there's a bit of sweeping generalisation which causes controversy/ entertainment/ annoyance but in fairness also provotes much needed debate whether on lack of profit or we need to face up to reality.

I think that the huge prevalence of bachelors/ priests/ nuns who grew up in rural Ireland of the 20th century is a complete aberration/ unnatural state of affairs.
Of course, there are various reasons- almost none of which reflect well on rural Irish society of the time. Some of the reactions here suggest that old attitudes still linger. Sure, some bachelors were just awkward in social settings. Some were terrified of their own sexual desires- straight or gay. Some were terrified of upsetting conservative, bigoted or snobby parents who would disinherit them rather than leave go of the control freakery and prejudice.

And some were and are undoubtedly gay.

Demanding facts is a bit pointless. While some gay advocates say 10% of the population is gay, I suspect that's a bit exaggerated. BUt we can say with certainty that there are at least 4 gays in the Dail and a few more in the Seanad. So if there's that proportion in a population of 226 (dail & senate) then it follows that theres some in every village. But here's the thing- the numbers are almost certainly way short of the real story because people are still unable to come out.

I know of 2 cases of people from the one rural area. One is a rampant alcoholic and now an OAP. Also he was a hurler, a ferocious hard physical worker, occassionally a womaniser of sorts, frequently a misogynist. Never came out, probably drank to excess all his life to hide from the reality. THe second- depressed in his twenties, great professoinal career in his thirites and nearly threw it all away by becoming excessively religious and entered a seminary for 18 months before exiting again. Now in his forties. Both grew up in a farming community and were involved. Both are undoubtedly gay and neither have come out. It's terribly sad and it is partially down to the fact that they can't come to terms with it or else can't face a society that doesn't want to grow up and face facts.

Final point..do you really think that all those priests who used go round the dancehalls of the 1950s assaulting young couples who were having a harmless snog were motivated by Godliness or was it some repressed sexual frustration?

Absolutely quality post, you verbalised all my posts in this one. Of course my statement is a generalisation but a lot of it is very true and you have put it away better than I ever could. I totally agree you could see the ignorance and lingering attitudes still coming out in some lads posts.

I know mf240's was a joke in highlighting the coming out part. It was interesting the likes it generated from people who then seized to comment on the issues even when I tried to draw one out on the topic.

Fair play to you though you have called it spot on, mental health issues, alcoholism etc Be very interested to see how many people agree with your post.

Kovu

AP2014 wrote: »

I know mf240's was a joke in highlighting the coming out part. It was interesting the likes it generated from people who then seized to comment on the issues even when I tried to draw one out on the topic.

No reason I thanked it other than the fact it was fuppin funny! If he'd replied to me the same I'd have thanked it too.

Genghis Cant

AP2014 wrote: »

I know mf240's was a joke in highlighting the coming out part. It was interesting the likes it generated from people who then seized to comment on the issues even when I tried to draw one out on the topic.

It generated likes cos it was funny. I didn't thank it yet maybe I will, as is my perogative.

Any harm to ask are you an out gay man?

In the interests of fairness I myself am not gay. I'm heterosexual.
So there ya are now.

AP2014

Kovu wrote: »

No reason I thanked it other than the fact it was fuppin funny! If he'd replied to me the same I'd have thanked it too.

No doubt and you commented on the rest of the posts and were very involved in the thread and gave some great opinions. I wish more people had the guts and courage to put forward their opinions like you did.

AP2014

Genghis Cant wrote: »

It generated likes cos it was funny. I didn't thank it yet maybe I will, as is my perogative.

Any harm to ask are you an out gay man?

In the interests of fairness I myself am not gay. I'm heterosexual.
So there ya are now.

I am not, settled with the missus for a few years now. I have a few gay friends and a few priests in the family not immediate family. One definitely gay but hasn't come out its a shame.

I am in my 30's but if I was gay I think it would have been extremely hard to come out, even when I was in school not too long ago it was extremely taboo.

Indeed it is your prerogative to thank what post you like, but because someone has an alternative view I wouldn't label them morons.

A cow called Daisy

The religious difference is still prevalent in many areas :mad: particularly in northern areas in my opinion. And I have to say it is more common with the (my) protestant community :mad::mad: Was at school with lad who was told tbat if he married 'that girl' (a Catholic) that he was to leave. Language not as polite, no doubt.

The posts about folks marrying late in life reminds me of the old joke about the 80 year old marrying a girl of 22. A neighbour is congratulating him and asks him if he is not worried about the age difference. He thinks for a bit and says 'ah if she dies...she dies' .

Was in conversation recently and the chat got around to priests and whether they should be allowed to marry. One 'holier than thou' woman who was against all that sort of stuff looks at me and says 'Daisy, your crowd are allowed marry, what do you think? Do you think our priests should be allowed marry?' Daisy thinks for a second and says 'Of course priests should be allowed marry......especially if they love each other.

P.S. On the religious differences thing - Google a poem called 'The Papish and the Prod' by John McKearney and maybe post link. Nothing to do with land but very poignant. Well worth
a read in my opinion.

keep going

The fun is certainly sucked out of this thread.who the f##k knows why men/ women stayed single in the country , personally I think there was alot of lack of confidence and poor social skillsinvolved and theres alot of that around still.on relationships in farming, its not alot different to any other job after,lots of jobs require commitment that puts pressure on relationship s but at the end of the day it either works or it dont.

einn32

I don't think farming is any different to most careers now. A lot of people work crazy long hours. You could even have one person on night shift and the other on days and they never see each other for long periods. Lots of people are leaving early and home late during the week.


The weekend is probably the tricky time but if you have a good set up it can be simple for someone to come fill in for you. Time off is key to a hard job like farming especially time off with your loved ones.


It's hard to find a person willing to accept that your career is farming and it comes first though. But I think someone genuinely interested in you will take on board the farming with the odd argument about it!!

AP2014

keep going wrote: »

The fun is certainly sucked out of this thread.who the f##k knows why men/ women stayed single in the country , personally I think there was alot of lack of confidence and poor social skillsinvolved and theres alot of that around still.on relationships in farming, its not alot different to any other job after,lots of jobs require commitment that puts pressure on relationship s but at the end of the day it either works or it dont.

Does this link bring the fun back into it? No need for social skills if you use a come on tactic like this!

http://www.donedeal.ie/dairycattle-for-sale/keep-your-cows-focused-on-conception/8549799?offset=22

freedominacup

einn32 wrote: »

It's hard to find a person willing to accept that your career is farming and it comes first though.

There's your problem right there. Why would anyone accept second place to a farm?

Timmaay

freedominacup wrote: »

There's your problem right there. Why would anyone accept second place to a farm?

Do many of you full time farmers put the farm 1stly??? I most certainly do not, it's a means to an end and always will be, it's at best number 3 or 4 in terms of importance.

Charliebull

freedominacup wrote: »

There's your problem right there. Why would anyone accept second place to a farm?

that there is the starting point

from there you figure out how to manage your time but in all cases family should and need to come first

Charliebull

Timmaay wrote: »

Do many of you full time farmers put the farm 1stly??? I most certainly do not, it's a means to an end and always will be, it's at best number 3 or 4 in terms of importance.

the other side tim is the part time lad, working 9-5 and farming,

thats why its 10pm when i get to shed, family first in evening

saturday early start for early finish,

einn32

freedominacup wrote: »

There's your problem right there. Why would anyone accept second place to a farm?

Well in my opinion there is always instances on a farm where a significant other has to come second. The other half has arranged dinner but at the same time a few cows break out etc. etc. What comes first then?? I'm not saying that they will always come second but they do need to accept that crap will occur on a farm and plans will be scrapped.


It depends on how you look at it and what you want from life. Lots of people working put their love life on hold to further their career. I wouldn't call it a problem as they focus on their career and then when they have reached their goals they go in to a relationship. How many people have worked hard through their 20's or early 30's to achieve financial stable career and then go down the marriage route etc.


Maybe as farms expand it will allow farmers more freedom to take time off.

Anyway there is nothing wrong with being single:)

AP2014

einn32 wrote: »

Well in my opinion there is always instances on a farm where a significant other has to come second. The other half has arranged dinner but at the same time a few cows break out etc. etc. What comes first then?? I'm not saying that they will always come second but they do need to accept that crap will occur on a farm and plans will be scrapped.


It depends on how you look at it and what you want from life. Lots of people working put their love life on hold to further their career. I wouldn't call it a problem as they focus on their career and then when they have reached their goals they go in to a relationship. How many people have worked hard through their 20's or early 30's to achieve financial stable career and then go down the marriage route etc.


Maybe as farms expand it will allow farmers more freedom to take time off.

Anyway there is nothing wrong with being single:)

You head for dinner and let her get the cows back with the neighbours. Stop into supermacs on the way home and grab her a snackbox.

freedominacup

einn32 wrote: »

Well in my opinion there is always instances on a farm where a significant other has to come second. The other half has arranged dinner but at the same time a few cows break out etc. etc. What comes first then?? I'm not saying that they will always come second but they do need to accept that crap will occur on a farm and plans will be scrapped.

That's not what you said in your previous post though. The inference I took from it was that you expected your significant other to accept second place at all times. Virtually any job will have instances where you can be delayed at times not the same thing as expecting family to come second to your job.

Dawggone

einn32 wrote: »

Maybe as farms expand it will allow farmers more freedom to take time off.




ROFLMAO!!!! That's a good one!!

einn32

freedominacup wrote: »

That's not what you said in your previous post though. The inference I took from it was that you expected your significant other to accept second place at all times. Virtually any job will have instances where you can be delayed at times not the same thing as expecting family to come second to your job.

I think you took me up wrong and I probably should have worded that part better but I did say the following:

"Time off is key to a hard job like farming especially time off with your loved ones"

You couldn't hold down a relationship keeping the farm first all the time plus it wouldn't be healthy for yourself!

einn32

Dawggone wrote: »

ROFLMAO!!!! That's a good one!!

They will have to rename it divorce 2020 so!!!

Dawggone

einn32 wrote: »

They will have to rename it divorce 2020 so!!!

All things being equal....2000 acres has more work than 200.
Teagasc et al are not forthcoming on the reality of this, maybe it's because they don't know any better.
Most on here have inherited farms that have been tipping along for years with minimal expansion.
Wait until you double or treble in size...:)

Miname

A friend of mines at that age where older folk keep nagging him about getting married. He was at a wedding one day, when someone started giving him stick. He called over an uncle of his who had married at 69 and said how's marriage? His reply was I done it twenty years too young.

Mad4simmental

A cow called Daisy wrote: »

P.S. On the religious differences thing - Google a poem called 'The Papish and the Prod' by John McKearney and maybe post link. Nothing to do with land but very poignant. Well worth
a read in my opinion.

I don't read to many poems Daisy, but that's a good one. Well worth a read.

http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/Poetry/PapishProd.html

onrail

Jesus lads... I go away from the thread for a year and look what happens!