Be still my beating heart

Dubgal72

This log makes great reading anyway but lately it's just oozing with positivity as a result of your consistency. So glad to see your first speed sessions go so well. See, not so scary after all
Congrats on the contract, you really are on a roll!
And happy belated birthday, I see we have something else in common apart from an obsession with a love of running

laura_ac3

Happy belated birthday. Very jealous of those paces on the Saturday session, I'd say if someone had said those times to you a couple of years ago you'd have laughed. Great progress.

annapr

+1 to the above, great times A, great to see your confidence rising too. Will be interested to see the impact of the speed training. (oh and belated happy birthday!)

Ososlo

Murph_D wrote: »

Nice week. Did I pass you in P Park Weds about 4 at top of North Road? Didn't have the specs so couldn't be sure!

Yes very possibly! That's mad though as I had a message from another Boardsie on Wed evening asking if it was me that they saw on the Chesterfield Avenue around that time too!
Strange I didn't recognise you though... I'm usually pretty observant.

Ososlo

Dubgal72 wrote: »

This log makes great reading anyway but lately it's just oozing with positivity as a result of your consistency. So glad to see your first speed sessions go so well. See, not so scary after all
Congrats on the contract, you really are on a roll!
And happy belated birthday, I see we have something else in common apart from an obsession with a love of running

ha ha I'm taking each session as it comes and not thinking about the scary ones but believe me there is one bitch of a session in there for next week I think!!
Happy belated birthday to you too!
Looking forward to reading your report from today. Great going with the novices btw. They're spoilt this year!

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Happy belated birthday. Very jealous of those paces on the Saturday session, I'd say if someone had said those times to you a couple of years ago you'd have laughed. Great progress.

Thanks!
If someone had said those times to me a couple of months ago Laura I'd have laughed! Seriously!

hillsiderunner

Ososlo wrote: »

It's a great secret spot. I can pee and hide clothes and ....

Be careful doing that too late in the evening in the PP! At least depending on which secret place.

Lovely session on the Saturday

Ososlo

hillsiderunner wrote: »

Be careful doing that too late in the evening in the PP! At least depending on which secret place.

Lovely session on the Saturday

oh god yes absolutely! It's a good secret place but not a stupid one:)

barryoneill50

Well done on that scary session and happy belated.......

Ososlo

Ok, good week of training. This was my second week of speed training and it really wasn't bad at all. As for next week, well..........

Monday 18 May
am: 40 mins easy
9:52 avg pace
pm: 40 mins easy
9:41 avg pace
Not feeling wonderful today and little to no sleep the previous night. Tonsils a tiny bit swollen. RHR really low though at 48 this morning so don't think there's a problem...
8+ miles total

Tuesday 19 May
30 mins warm up -60 mins AT (2 hr race effort)- 20mins cool down
Next to no sleep again last night and very windy doing this so splits are a little slower than I would have hoped but I'm still fairly happy with them.
7 miles @: 8:33 8:31 8:27 8:31 8:35 8:19 8:29
Felt very strong throughout except for a horrible mile at mile 5 which was all directly into the wind and I went into the red for a bit but really tried to stay as relaxed as possible. I've noticed a huge improvement in the paces for this particular session in the last few months. I do it by effort after I've locked into the pace after the first few miles. I was running in the 8:40s and 50s a few weeks ago but the mid-8s now feel quite comfortable. I run it at something a little slower than half marathon effort. Very happy with my improvement.
12 miles at 9:05 avg pace

Wednesday 20 May
Rest. No sleep again so time to step it back a bit. Rotten day in work trying to stay awake. Chronically bad patch of insomnia atm.

Thursday 21 May
No sleep again!!!!!! Really running on empty all day. Wasn't feeling great starting out on the run so kept it super easy. Did enjoy it once I got into it and had much more energy than the previous day. Fcuk off sleep. Who needs you anyways... :cool:*
50 mins recovery
10:30 avg pace (*well I obviously do judging my slow pace today )

Friday 22 May
10 x 1 min @ 1 mile effort off 90 sec rec
This was harder than I thought it would be. Maybe it's 'cause I wasn't feeling 100%. Not sure what was up with me but just not really feeling it this morning even though I did sleep really well. Maybe it was the accumulation of 4 recent very very bad nights.

2.5 miles easy from St. Anne's brought me down to the coast road. Lovely around there. Need to run around this area more often as I always enjoy it, except for the pervy comments from a couple of road workers as I jogged passed.
Did my drills in St. Anne's on the way down to the path and added in the strides as suggested to me on another thread. Drills seem to really make the legs feel more zippy heading into a session so good to start noticing the benefits.

6:39 6:50 6:40 6:38 6:39 6:37 6:45 6:42 6:38 6:41
Took a few to get used to the pace. Was really feeling it by the 8th and was glad to finish. Did it by effort so splits are a bit all over the shop. The effort felt about right though today.
Jog back to the car was a bit of a slog and mainly uphill so not the most pleasant part of the run.

Had some food, then voted YES, went home, did myrtl and had a snooze. A bloody great day for this country. Writing this at 18:18 on Friday and my prediction is 71% YES!
8 miles total

Saturday 23 May
40 mins recovery
And we did it:D In style:D Not quite 71% but a really good result.

Beautiful morning. Not as much energy as I'd like this morning so happy to stay easy.
10:03 avg pace

Sunday 24 May
am: 40 mins easy
Did this with my BIL. I haven't run with anyone for quite a while so this was a bit of a novelty. It was painfully slow though but I really wanted to encourage him to run a bit further than his usual 5k so enticed him out this morning. Went well. A plethora of runners out in the local this morning! Great to see!!!
pm: 40 mins easy
Not sure why this is so fast. Maybe my watch is broken but it felt lovely and easy and relaxed.
9:22 avg pace
46 miles weekly total

AIS and Lunge Matrix done before every run except this morning's run.
Myrtle routine done after Tuesday and Friday sessions. Drills done before both sessions.
Roll on next week! Kicking off with something nice and tasty tomorrow and then that darn 4 x 1 mile @ 5k on Thursday! OFF 90 BLOODY SECONDS!!!!!!!!!!AGGGGHHHH
I am actually DYING to do it. Can't wait! Taking the day off work to prepare well for it:) Bring it on!

yaboya1

4x1m @ 5k pace off 90 second recoveries?
That sounds like a very, very difficult session. I reckon if you complete that on target your 5k pace is actually a bit quicker. I'm not sure anyone could do that at their true 5k pace. Maybe I'm wrong.

Ososlo

yaboya1 wrote: »

4x1m @ 5k pace off 90 second recoveries?
That sounds like a very, very difficult session. I reckon if you complete that on target your 5k pace is actually a bit quicker. I'm not sure anyone could do that at their true 5k pace. Maybe I'm wrong.

very very difficult is an understatement I did it last year and was the hardest session I've ever done.

I'll be doing another 5k race soon enough so we'll see if it will be near my true 5k pace then!

yaboya1

Ososlo wrote: »

very very difficult is an understatement I did it last year and was the hardest session I've ever done.

I'll be doing another 5k race soon enough so we'll see if it will be near my true 5k pace then!

I remember doing a 5x1k session last year the week after I ran my 5k pb. I remember it being ridiculously difficult and IIRC I couldn't hit the target splits. And that was off 2:30 recoveries!

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

very very difficult is an understatement I did it last year and was the hardest session I've ever done.

I was out this morning running fast for only the second time since the Belfast Marathon 3 weeks ago. I just did a 4k warm up then a all guns out blazing 1k (3:59) then 8k cool down. I plan to work up to something like 4x1m @ 5k pace off 90 second recoveries, any tips..?

KielyUnusual

yaboya1 wrote: »

4x1m @ 5k pace off 90 second recoveries?
That sounds like a very, very difficult session. I reckon if you complete that on target your 5k pace is actually a bit quicker. I'm not sure anyone could do that at their true 5k pace. Maybe I'm wrong.

90 seconds is a long recovery

Its a tough session no doubt but should be doable as you sharpen up for a race. We regularly do 5-6 X 1k at 5k pace with 75-90s recovery and run them on grass. I always find it a great indicator of the 5k time you would run. If you're struggling to hit the right paces in a session like this, then you might want to re-assess your target time. Although, I reckon if you could hold the pace for 3 of the 4, then you'd be in with a good shout too.

yaboya1

Dub13 wrote: »

I was out this morning running fast for only the second time since the Belfast Marathon 3 weeks ago. I just did a 4k warm up then a all guns out blazing 1k (3:59) then 8k cool down. I plan to work up to something like 4x1m @ 5k pace off 90 second recoveries, any tips..?

Am I the only one who thinks these sessions sound a bit insane?
Below is my post from last year when doing 1k (0.62m) intervals off 2 minute recoveries:

yaboya1 wrote: »

Tuesday 19th August (Day 16/56) - 10m (with 6 x 1,000m @ VO2Max)

2.5m warm-up

6 x 1,000m splits (with 2:00min recovery)

1 - 3:27
2 - 3:26
3 - 3:25
4 - 3:26
5 - 3:26
6 - 3:26

2.75m cool down

After my new 5k PB on Saturday, I needed to adjust the target splits for this session to 3:27min/km. Before I hit the road this morning, I foolishly had myself believing this would be comfortable having strung 5k together in a row at that pace on Saturday. Surely it would be easy running 6 x 1k intervals with recoveries in between? I even reduced the recoveries I had taken in the same session while training for Seville (2:30>2:00mins). How wrong I was! This was very, very, very difficult. I actually can't believe I ran at that pace last Saturday after this morning . The first interval felt ok, but I knew starting the second one that reducing the recovery time had been a mistake. It was too late to start again now though . Managed to hold the pace through that and the next two a little easier than expected. However the fifth & sixth were extremely painful. I needed to walk the recoveries after both of those while trying not to vomit at the same time. I was four seconds down on the last one with 200m to go, but couldn't allow myself to miss that having hit the others, so put everything I had left in the tank into hitting that and clawed it back to 3:26 . Delighted with the session and happy with my decision to run on empty this morning, as I think my breakfast would be all over Clontarf promenade now if I'd eaten any!

Two thoughts for the day, one of which myself & Ferris B were discussing on our long run last week:

1. Training is not supposed to be easy
2. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger (can also be applied to life in general)

I survived this morning and although I've got a lot of miles to cover in the next seven days, Longford is my next hard effort. Looking forward to that, although I'm not relishing the VO2 Max session (5 x 1200m) in a fortnight's time :eek:.

I was really fit back then too. I think 4x1m at that speed off those recoveries is a recipe for disaster. You'll either flog yourself to death, or your confidence will take a knock when you can't hold the pace. As I said, if you are capable of completing on target, then there's no way that can be your true 5k pace. It's most definitely faster.

yaboya1

KielyUnusual wrote: »

90 seconds is a long recovery

Its a tough session no doubt but should be doable as you sharpen up for a race. We regularly do 5-6 X 1k at 5k pace with 75-90s recovery and run them on grass. I always find it a great indicator of the 5k time you would run. If you're struggling to hit the right paces in a session like this, then you might want to re-assess your target time. Although, I reckon if you could hold the pace for 3 of the 4, then you'd be in with a good shout too.

Long? Are you serious?
I felt like dying off 2 minutes last year and they were only 1k reps.
I must just be soft :P

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

I was out this morning running fast for only the second time since the Belfast Marathon 3 weeks ago. I just did a 4k warm up then a all guns out blazing 1k (3:59) then 8k cool down. I plan to work up to something like 4x1m @ 5k pace off 90 second recoveries, any tips..?

Hey Dub13. You'd be better asking those who know about these matters. I just do what I'm told to be honest and am not qualified to give you advice.

My build up has been very gradual though if you look back over my training so I have a good solid base behind me before tackling these kinds of reps or they might be a recipe for injury. I've been doing a lot of shorter faster reps and long tempos as a build up.

In short, I really don't know but you might be better following a specific progressive plan if you're targeting a 5k.

adrian522

I agree P 4 miles seems a lot at 5K pace, if you can hold your pace for 4 miles off that recovery then surely you can go faster over 3.1 Miles in a race?

Having said that I've never done sessions like that so I don't know, maybe the recovery means you can hold the pace for longer than your target race,

paddybarry

yaboya1 wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks these sessions sound a bit insane?
Below is my post from last year when doing 1k (0.62m) intervals off 2 minute recoveries:



I was really fit back then too. I think 4x1m at that speed off those recoveries is a recipe for disaster. You'll either flog yourself to death, or your confidence will take a knock when you can't hold the pace. As I said, if you are capable of completing on target, then there's no way that can be your true 5k pace. It's most definitely faster.

Doing sessions with groups is much easier as it replicates a race situation where you can feed off the energy of those around you and hit the require pace quicker and easier.

Doing sessions on your own is way more difficult and without company is very difficult to hit target paces IMHO. However, they are great for character building.

tunguska

4 x 1 Mile at 5k pace with only 90 seconds recovery is too extreme. When we do mile repeats we take the length of the interval to recover. So say it's a 5:10 mile, we'd jog (very slowly)for 5 minutes between each rep. Even with the long recovery it's a killer session. But we hit each rep spot on, theres no decline throughout. But if we attempted to do the same thing with only 90 secs between each rep, we'd lose the pace and each Mile would be progressively slower.
I just think you're better off giving yourself a lot of recovery and focus on hitting the paces, that way your confidence would be sky high after and it's all about confidence. Whereas with the short recoveries you risk fading badly and actually dented your self belief.

yaboya1

paddybarry wrote: »

Doing sessions with groups is much easier as it replicates a race situation where you can feed off the energy of those around you and hit the require pace quicker and easier.

Doing sessions on your own is way more difficult and without company is very difficult to hit target paces IMHO. However, they are great for character building.

Completely agree.

Ososlo

KielyUnusual wrote: »

90 seconds is a long recovery

Its a tough session no doubt but should be doable as you sharpen up for a race. We regularly do 5-6 X 1k at 5k pace with 75-90s recovery and run them on grass. I always find it a great indicator of the 5k time you would run. If you're struggling to hit the right paces in a session like this, then you might want to re-assess your target time. Although, I reckon if you could hold the pace for 3 of the 4, then you'd be in with a good shout too.

Interesting...

Why on grass though M? Surely it'd be easier on coke?:pac:

Seriously though, why on grass? Is that not 10 times harder?

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

I was out this morning running fast for only the second time since the Belfast Marathon 3 weeks ago. I just did a 4k warm up then a all guns out blazing 1k (3:59) then 8k cool down. I plan to work up to something like 4x1m @ 5k pace off 90 second recoveries, any tips..?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87610868

Found this thread with some suggested sessions for 5k training. Pconn gives some good advice on progressive workouts building up to race week. Includes the 4 x 1 mile off 90 secs standard session I'll be doing.

Might be of use....

PaulieC

Ososlo wrote: »

Interesting...

Why on grass though M? Surely it'd be easier on coke?:pac:

Seriously though, why on grass? Is that not 10 times harder?

Coz that's where they train while the stadium is out of commission

Dub13

adrian522 wrote: »

Having said that I've never done sessions like that so I don't know, maybe the recovery means you can hold the pace for longer than your target race,

That would be my maybe naive way of looking at it. I would think the idea behind them is to maybe start with longer recovery then shorten it as you get used to the pace.

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87610868

Found this thread with some suggested sessions for 5k training. Pconn gives some good advice on progressive workouts building up to race week. Includes the 4 x 1 mile off 90 secs standard session I'll be doing.

Might be of use....

Cheers, your a great help as always. Its like its 2014 all over again...:)

kit3

tunguska wrote: »

4 x 1 Mile at 5k pace with only 90 seconds recovery is too extreme. When we do mile repeats we take the length of the interval to recover. So say it's a 5:10 mile, we'd jog (very slowly)for 5 minutes between each rep. Even with the long recovery it's a killer session. But we hit each rep spot on, theres no decline throughout. But if we attempted to do the same thing with only 90 secs between each rep, we'd lose the pace and each Mile would be progressively slower.
I just think you're better off giving yourself a lot of recovery and focus on hitting the paces, that way your confidence would be sky high after and it's all about confidence. Whereas with the short recoveries you risk fading badly and actually dented your self belief.

That's very interesting to hear Tunguska and you'd be working at a much higher level than most on here (A/R in general - not this particular log)- food for thought

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

Cheers, your a great help as always. Its like its 2014 all over again...:)

ha you're too kind Dub13! All the info is there on Boards already. I'm just good at searching for it and finding it

Puncher

4x1mile off 90 seconds passive recovery is a standard 5k session. It’s a tough session but looking how your training has progressed over the winter, the session should be doable. It looks like you are doing some sort of multi-pace training and if that is the case then 4x1mile as a 5k session is perfect. You’ve done 3 min reps off 2:50 rec and that’s a perfect 3k pace session off the correct recovery: it’s pretty much a VO2Max session.

4x1mile off 90 seconds once a week would be tough – I used to do this in the winter and hated it. It looks like your sessions are appropriately spread out and there’s a good mix in there.

I’d say your coach has a good idea of what he’s at, especially given your improvement. I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’ll do the session in 7:20-7:25 – weather permitting. I’m basing that off Horwill’s 4-5 second rule and so far, all the sessions you’ve done are in keeping with his rule. Perfect balance. If you can’t hit those times I suspect your coach will pick up on it and identify a weakness in your game. If that’s so, I imagine he’ll suggest a change on the 5k pace session that would probably be 1k reps at the same pace and then progress them up to mile reps. I do think you’ll handle the session and wouldn’t worry about it. I definitely wouldn’t go down the equal rep time/recovery route – not for a 5k pace session. You just don’t get 5 mins or 7:25 recoveries in a 5k race.

barryoneill50

kit3 wrote: »

That's very interesting to hear Tunguska and you'd be working at a much higher level than most on here (A/R in general - not this particular log)- food for thought

Ah but maybe if he progressed it too 90 sec recoveries he would be working at an even higher level, who knows......

yaboya1

Would you recommend a gel after the 3rd rep Puncher?

Puncher

yaboya1 wrote: »

Would you recommend a gel after the 3rd rep Puncher?

For you? Yes.

yaboya1

Puncher wrote: »

For you? Yes.

Self praise is no praise

Puncher

yaboya1 wrote: »

Self praise is no praise

I'm lost now. I got the gel one - sharp. But I don't understand what your saying now.

kit3

barryoneill50 wrote: »

Ah but maybe if he progressed it too 90 sec recoveries he would be working at an even higher level, who knows......

Who knows indeed Barry although I certainly wouldn't presume to question the training of someone who has reached the level that Tunguska has - lucky to have someone like that giving advice around here

yaboya1

Puncher wrote: »

I'm lost now. I got the gel one - sharp. But I don't understand what your saying now.

I'll try to be clearer next time J

Puncher

yaboya1 wrote: »

I'll try to be clearer next time J

Still lost.

Duanington

Ososlo wrote: »

Interesting...

Why on grass though M? Surely it'd be easier on coke?:pac:

Seriously though, why on grass? Is that not 10 times harder?

Just to throw my two cents into this one, I run a lot of my sessions on grass in the summer to limit the impact on my legs. The lads in crusaders might be doing it because the track is out of action at the moment but I know a lot of people run them on grass so they don't feel it in the legs as much the next day.

Each to their own of course !

barryoneill50

kit3 wrote: »

Who knows indeed Barry although I certainly wouldn't presume to question the training of someone who has reached the level that Tunguska has - lucky to have someone like that giving advice around here

Why? Aren't we all equal here, we should be all open to suggestions/scrutiny regardless of level.

kit3

barryoneill50 wrote: »

Why? Aren't we all equal here, we should be all open to suggestions/scrutiny regardless of level.

You seem to have misunderstood me Barry - I said that I wouldn't presume - I certainly wouldn't have anything like the running knowledge that Tunguska has & therefore wouldn't presume to comment on his training. I recognise the wealth of knowledge & experience that some of the posters on here have & happily acknowledge that, in that respect, I am not their equal.

barryoneill50

kit3 wrote: »

You seem to have misunderstood me Barry - I said that I wouldn't presume - I certainly wouldn't have anything like the running knowledge that Tunguska has & therefore wouldn't presume to comment on his training. I recognise the wealth of knowledge & experience that some of the posters on here have & happily acknowledge that, in that respect, I am not their equal.

Indeed...

Pacing Mule

barryoneill50 wrote: »

Why? Aren't we all equal here, we should be all open to suggestions/scrutiny regardless of level.

I agree with the second half for sure. Everyone should be open to comment but at the same time you have to respect the fact there are some amongst us who are more experienced, knowledgable, faster, better than the majority. Tunguska being one of those people by a country mile. As equal as we all are when it comes to being open to suggestion surely there has to be a lot more respect shown to those at the top end of our community ?

Ososlo

Puncher wrote: »

Still lost.

I gather the insinuation is that you're my coach. Same thing happened a few weeks ago with a suggestion that another poster demfad was my coach....
Long story. Won't bore you. Thanks for the input and I'll be doing the session as laid out by my coach.

4 x 1 mile off 90 sec recovery. BRING IT ON:)

Ososlo

Duanington wrote: »

Just to throw my two cents into this one, I run a lot of my sessions on grass in the summer to limit the impact on my legs. The lads in crusaders might be doing it because the track is out of action at the moment but I know a lot of people run them on grass so they don't feel it in the legs as much the next day.

Each to their own of course !

I just find it so hard on grass though! There's no way I could hit anywhere near target paces on grass! I read about people doing sessions on grass and I just wonder how on earth they do it! Luckily I don't really get sore legs so I think I'll stay on the paths and hopefully won't regret it in old age!

Pacing Mule

Ososlo wrote: »

I gather the insinuation is that you're my coach. Same thing happened a few weeks ago with a suggestion that another poster demfad was my coach....
Long story. Won't bore you. Thanks for the input and I'll be doing the session as laid out by my coach.

4 x 1 mile off 90 sec recovery. BRING IT ON:)

Well if your coach would stop reregistering accounts etc

In all seriousness though when relativley new posters appear with what appears to be in depth knowledge of the board and the training history of members it's kind of hard not to draw the conclusion that they could be a re-reg. Place is littered with them actually.

Dubgal72

Pacing Mule wrote: »

I agree with the second half for sure. Everyone should be open to comment but at the same time you have to respect the fact there are some amongst us who are more experienced, knowledgable, faster, better than the majority. Tunguska being one of those people by a country mile. As equal as we all are when it comes to being open to suggestion surely there has to be a lot more respect shown to those at the top end of our community ?

I'm going to (respectfully) disagree. Everyone on this forum is theoretically open to comment - and challenge. Likewise, everyone on this forum deserves equal respect. By this I mean you give each and every member of this community the respect you would to anyone in *real* life. (Imagine your granny is looking over your shoulder :eek: )
How you weight someone's advice according to their experience, knowledge, speed and 'bestness' is entirely up to you....

tunguska

barryoneill50 wrote: »

Ah but maybe if he progressed it too 90 sec recoveries he would be working at an even higher level, who knows......

Been there done that. This is why I can speak from direct experience. One very important thing I've learned is that working hard is not always the best play. The best racers I know don't blow themselves out in training, they hold it back for when it really matters. Similarly I know people who train a lot and really hard but when they race they under perform and get beat by the guys who are skilled at racing and getting the best out of themselves on the day.

barryoneill50

Pacing Mule wrote: »

I agree with the second half for sure. Everyone should be open to comment but at the same time you have to respect the fact there are some amongst us who are more experienced, knowledgable, faster, better than the majority. Tunguska being one of those people by a country mile. As equal as we all are when it comes to being open to suggestion surely there has to be a lot more respect shown to those at the top end of our community ?

Yes T is all you have mentioned above. But the level someone competes at should not determine the level of respect afforded to someone whether it be giving advice or receiving it if that makes sense. It's not a personnel thing. For example some people with experience here are saying a certain session is madness and on another thread equally experienced people are saying it's a fairly standard session. Equal respect to all I say:)

barryoneill50

tunguska wrote: »

Been there done that. This is why I can speak from direct experience. One very important thing I've learned us that working hard is not always the best play. The best racers I know don't blow themselves out in training, they hold it back for when it really matters. Similarly I know people who train a lot and really hard but when they race they under perform and get beat by the guys who are skilled at racing and getting the best out of themselves on the day.

Sorry I I came across as having a go at you T, it wasn't my intention.
I absolutely agree. But isn't this what O is doing. I'm far from been an expert but O has been building up to these sessions over the last 9 ish months. She has a great base behind her and the two recovery days between her sessions at the moment will allow her to recover well.

The Officer

I'm confused, barry, are you ososlo's coach?