Be still my beating heart

RacoonQueen

barryoneill50 wrote: »

For example some people with experience here are saying a certain session is madness and on another thread equally experienced people are saying it's a fairly standard session. Equal respect to all I say:)

It's all relative though Barry. A session that is suitable for one may not be suitable for another - people train at different levels etc.... That's why we have coaches rather than following generic plans.

4x1 mile at 10K pace with 90 seconds recovery, for example, is a great session for that IMO would be more beneficial to Ososlo. I'm not sure what her coaches rationale is behind the session at 5K pace..and don't know enough about her training or goals to judge.

Also, mod moment...no re-reg speculation on thread please.

barryoneill50

The Officer wrote: »

I'm confused, barry, are you ososlo's coach?

No, I'm exactly what it says on the tin. What about yourself, who are you?

tunguska

barryoneill50 wrote: »

Sorry I I came across as having a go at you T, it wasn't my intention.

Not at all, you're grand

KielyUnusual

Ososlo wrote: »

Interesting...

Why on grass though M? Surely it'd be easier on coke?:pac:

Seriously though, why on grass? Is that not 10 times harder?

Not because our track is out of action. We would never do reps any longer than 800m on the track. I don't really know the reason behind it and it is a bit more difficult (only marginally when the ground is as hard as it is now) but it is certainly more forgiving than doing it on tarmac or concrete.

With regards to recovery, my take on the relatively shorter time is that you are working harder for a higher percentage of time as the reps develop. Unless you are doing a pure speed session, then you don't want to fully recover between reps. You want your first rep to be close in time to the last rep but it is a hell of a lot harder. There is some science behind this with regard to the amount of time you spend in the higher HR zones as the reps develop but my skills at digging up posts are not as well developed as yours .

Will be interesting to see how the session goes after the 4 or 5 pages of debate about it. Sessions like these are definitely the toughest ones I would ever do but they are great for a bit of speed endurance and general toughening up

Ososlo

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the session goes after the 4 or 5 pages of debate about it. Sessions like these are definitely the toughest ones I would ever do but they are great for a bit of speed endurance and general toughening up

ha ha. The nation holds its breath! Pressure much?

Naw, I'm actually SO stoked about doing this now. I love being challenged and if I can hit the paces I want to hit it'll give me so much confidence going into my next race.
Could do with a bit of toughening up too:)

TRR_the_turd

tunguska wrote: »

4 x 1 Mile at 5k pace with only 90 seconds recovery is too extreme. When we do mile repeats we take the length of the interval to recover. So say it's a 5:10 mile, we'd jog (very slowly)for 5 minutes between each rep. Even with the long recovery it's a killer session. But we hit each rep spot on, theres no decline throughout. But if we attempted to do the same thing with only 90 secs between each rep, we'd lose the pace and each Mile would be progressively slower.
I just think you're better off giving yourself a lot of recovery and focus on hitting the paces, that way your confidence would be sky high after and it's all about confidence. Whereas with the short recoveries you risk fading badly and actually dented your self belief.

Depends what you're training for and where you're coming from. I've found for marathon training, longer recoveries are the norm. For 5k specific sessions the recoveries should be reduced. Personally wouldn't start them at 90 seconds, but would work them down from maybe 3 mins over a number of weeks and in peak stage they'd even do down to a minute and for sub 15 minute lads maybe off 30-45 seconds. This is based from personal experience and what I would have picked up from club runners much better than me. I'd like to add the caveat, that what I've written is the consensus. Have seen very different approaches (rare) run much faster times.

TRR_the_turd

Or put another way

tunguska

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

Depends what you're training for and where you're coming from. I've found for marathon training, longer recoveries are the norm. For 5k specific sessions the recoveries should be reduced. Personally wouldn't start them at 90 seconds, but would work them down from maybe 3 mins over a number of weeks and in peak stage they'd even do down to a minute and for sub 15 minute lads maybe off 30-45 seconds. This is based from personal experience and what I would have picked up from club runners much better than me. I'd like to add the caveat, that what I've written is the consensus. Have seen very different approaches (rare) run much faster times.

This approach was for 5k training. Like you though I've seen faster runners than me use long recoveries to great effect. I think the important thing is to nail the paces. If you're doing the intervals at your true 5k pace and hitting the reps at that pace (without it absolutely destroying you) then that's the goal achieved. But if you start to leak seconds then the recoveries are too short.

Pacing Mule

Dubgal72 wrote: »

I'm going to (respectfully) disagree. Everyone on this forum is theoretically open to comment - and challenge. Likewise, everyone on this forum deserves equal respect. By this I mean you give each and every member of this community the respect you would to anyone in *real* life. (Imagine your granny is looking over your shoulder :eek: )
How you weight someone's advice according to their experience, knowledge, speed and 'bestness' is entirely up to you....

Totally agree ! Possibly a little lost in translation / wasn't clear enough on my part. The respect I was referring to would be to the weight given to the advice itself

TRR_the_turd

tunguska wrote: »

This approach was for 5k training. Like you though I've seen faster runners than me use long recoveries to great effect. I think the important thing is to nail the paces. If you're doing the intervals at your true 5k pace and hitting the reps at that pace (without it absolutely destroying you) then that's the goal achieved. But if you start to leak seconds then the recoveries are too short.

I'd that the opposite approach to you. My pace would be dictated by how consistent I can keep the reps, off the back of short recoveries. Totally different approach, but I bet with two equal athletes following two completely different session approaches would run similar times after say 3 months

Dubgal72

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Totally agree ! Possibly a little lost in translation / wasn't clear enough on my part. The respect I was referring to would be to the weight given to the advice itself

Shoulda known although the weighting is a minefield :eek:
"oh yeah, that sounds good"
"oh but... That sounds good too..."

Dubgal72

Ososlo wrote: »

I just find it so hard on grass though! There's no way I could hit anywhere near target paces on grass! I read about people doing sessions on grass and I just wonder how on earth they do it! Luckily I don't really get sore legs so I think I'll stay on the paths and hopefully won't regret it in old age!

Try bare feet I was doing a session on grass, 400s I think, when I was about 15. It wasn't going too well so in frustration I tore my shoes off and flew the rest of the session. I ran all sessions and races barefoot then - except road training - for the next couple of years...summer and winter :eek:

tunguska

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

I'd that the opposite approach to you. My pace would be dictated by how consistent I can keep the reps, off the back of short recoveries. Totally different approach, but I bet with two equal athletes following two completely different session approaches would run similar times after say 3 months

I know and I used to do the exact same thing. I was always the type who'd try to shorten recoveries as much as possible in the belief it made me fitter. A lot of us do that. But then I read a lot on the subject and talked to some people who know their stuff and decided to let go a little, not be so killer with the recoveries. Get the reps in, nail the paces and walk away not having buried yourself completely. Saving that for when it really matters, in a race. When i did this my race results improved dramatically. I just think harder is not always better, that's better left for the race your targeting.

TRR_the_turd

tunguska wrote: »

I know and I used to do the exact same thing. I was always the type who'd try to shorten recoveries as much as possible in the belief it made me fitter. A lot of us do that. But then I read a lot on the subject and talked to some people who know their stuff and decided to let go a little, not be so killer with the recoveries. Get the reps in, nail the paces and walk away not having buried yourself completely. Saving that for when it really matters, in a race. When i did this my race results improved dramatically. I just think harder is not always better, that's better left for the race your targeting.

I think it's important never to completely bury yourself in a session, as you say leave that for racing, which in itself is a monster session. But short recoveries don't necessarily equate to burying yourself, especially if you ease off the pace. There is actually something to be said for a mixture of sessions, some with long recoveries, some with short recoveries. Pace will obviously faster for longer recovery.

demfad

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

Depends what you're training for and where you're coming from. I've found for marathon training, longer recoveries are the norm. For 5k specific sessions the recoveries should be reduced. Personally wouldn't start them at 90 seconds, but would work them down from maybe 3 mins over a number of weeks and in peak stage they'd even do down to a minute and for sub 15 minute lads maybe off 30-45 seconds. This is based from personal experience and what I would have picked up from club runners much better than me. I'd like to add the caveat, that what I've written is the consensus. Have seen very different approaches (rare) run much faster times.

I'd agree that the session should be evaluated in terms of where the runner is coming from and where she is going. I'd agree also that even pacing might be most important to complete the session correctly and IMO 5k pace would be best as guide only. I think (but may be wrong) that that session will be progressed by completing it faster each time. In that case even pacing would be the way to go. Hopefully, Ososlo will make very good gains from it and the other sessions. I think she will, once she makes sure she's rested for the sessions and concentrates on the recovery in the days after. i.e. easy days are truly easy. She's going great and she seems to be well rested so that all bodes well.

Firedance

this popped up on my FB feed, interesting given the current discussion http://m.runnersworld.com/workouts/how-much-rest-should-you-take-between-intervals?page=single Like you O I just follow instructions of the plan/coach but its interesting to read the differences between long and short interval rests.

TRR_the_turd

Firedance wrote: »

this popped up on my FB feed, interesting given the current discussion http://m.runnersworld.com/workouts/how-much-rest-should-you-take-between-intervals?page=single Like you O I just follow instructions of the plan/coach but its interesting to read the differences between long and short interval rests.

I was just about to post that I think it encompasses both what tunguska and I were saying and take home message is to mix up pace and recovery at different points in your training block.

tunguska

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

I think it's important never to completely bury yourself in a session, as you say leave that for racing, which in itself is a monster session. But short recoveries don't necessarily equate to burying yourself, especially if you ease off the pace. There is actually something to be said for a mixture of sessions, some with long recoveries, some with short recoveries. Pace will obviously faster for longer recovery.

Yeah I do agree with what you're saying and I think we're essentially saying the same thing. I mean if I was doing mile repeats at Threshold pace then the recoveries would be only 60 secs. I just think for that particular session(mile repeats at 5k pace) the best thing to do is to take the length of the interval as recovery. But if you can nail the reps at your true 5k pace without leaking time between the miles, and it doesn't kill you, then job done.

Myles Splitz

Personally, general guidelines I use for rec/pace ratio:

800m: x3 length of rep
1500/1 mile: x2 length of rep
3k: equal recovery of length of rep
5k: 3/4 to full recovery of length of rep
10k: 1/2 recovery of length of rep
Half: 1/4 recovery of length of rep

In terms of the session itself I think this type of session can be fine for some athletes and provide a good stimulus in a low racing schedule. (others would tend to opt for races)

Interesting to note the transition from basing repetitions on time to distance, looking at previous sessions I would imagine there is a particular reason for this so I won't speculate on what that may be.

Main thing as has been alluded to is the recovery in the days around the session as this will have roughly the same effect as a race, four times seven minutes @ five km pace off 90's is a tough ask no matter who you are. (same effort whether you cover 1200m-2600m depending on your level)

Zatopek

4x1 mile of 90 second recovery is a great 5k indicator session. Did it recently the week before a race and averaged 5:07 and ended up averaging 5:05 for the race. O has a decent base built up so it shouldn't be too bad. Trust me I was dreading this session but it wasn't half as bad as I imagined, I've definitely done tougher. I had a few months of pure base work going into this session with only 3/4 track sessions.

Chivito550

I don't think there's ever been as much anticipation over a training session. We better be updated this evening, rather than it being part of a once a week update.

menoscemo

Zatopek wrote: »

4x1 mile of 90 second recovery is a great 5k indicator session. Did it recently the week before a race and averaged 5:07 and ended up averaging 5:05 for the race. O has a decent base built up so it shouldn't be too bad. Trust me I was dreading this session but it wasn't half as bad as I imagined, I've definitely done tougher. I had a few months of pure base work going into this session with only 3/4 track sessions.

But surely 4 x 1mile off 90 seconds is a totally different session for someone who is going to take between 7-8 minutes to cover each mile? Would 90 seconds recovery be enough for someone who has just worked for almost 50% longer than you did?

I would have thought it might be more sensible to break it down into a time based rep (i.e. 4 x 5 minutes @ 5k with 90 seconds recovery) or else extend the recovery to match the duration of the miles: 4 x 1 mile @ 5k off 120-150 second recoveries to match the extra 50% of 'work'?

Edit to say; very interesting debate!!

Dub13

I just was just reading a very good article on this that was posted on Facebook tonight. Here is the link for anybody interested.

http://m.runnersworld.com/workouts/how-much-rest-should-you-take-between-intervals?page=single

Notwork Error

menoscemo wrote: »

But surely 4 x 1mile off 90 seconds is a totally different session for someone who is going to take between 7-8 minutes to cover each mile? Would 90 seconds recovery be enough for someone who has just worked for almost 50% longer than you did?

I would have thought it might be more sensible to break it down into a time based rep (i.e. 4 x 5 minutes @ 5k with 90 seconds recovery) or else extend the recovery to match the duration of the miles: 4 x 1 mile @ 5k off 120-150 second recoveries to match the extra 50% of 'work'?

Edit to say; very interesting debate!!

I think this is a great point in general on intervals. I got an old log off a guy who used to run in the 80's and the thing was filled with some great predictor sessions for all distances from the mile to the marathon. I even think that 4x1m @5k w/90rec was in there. He was a serious athlete running 95mpw and the first thing he said to me was, don't even attempt to copy those sessions but instead adapt them to suit you on volume and recovery.

A runners recovery time between intervals and volume is dependant on how aerobically fit they are as it determines how quickly the HR will drop and recovery time should be based on that. What is a great predictor session for one person of serious fitness is overtraining to someone who isn't as fit.

I can't comment on O's workout as I don't have the knowledge or background info to be able to say whether or not it will work but it will definitely be a toughie.

Ososlo

menoscemo wrote: »

I would have thought it might be more sensible to break it down into a time based rep (i.e. 4 x 5 minutes @ 5k with 90 seconds recovery) or else extend the recovery to match the duration of the miles: 4 x 1 mile @ 5k off 120-150 second recoveries to match the extra 50% of 'work'?

Edit to say; very interesting debate!!

I did those types of sessions back in December. I've been slowly building up to these types of sessions I'll be doing over the summer.

Ososlo

Here's the kind of build up I've been doing for anyone who's interested....

Thursday 19 February
10 x 1 min @ 5k off 2 min rec
Thursday 26 February
5 x 5 mins @ 5mile effort off 3 min jog
Saturday pm 7th March
5 x 2 mins @ 5k w/3min rec
Friday 13th March
6 x 5mins @ 5mile race effort off 3 min jog rec
Monday 16 March
5 x 3mins @ 5k effort off 3 min jog
Friday 3 April
10 mins + 4 x 5 mins off 3 mins
Wednesday 8 April
5 x 4 mins off 3 mins
Wednesday 29 April
4 x 5 mins off 3 mins

Plus several 10x3mins off 30 secs rec and 3x10mins. Then there’s the oft debated 60 min Tempo @ AT and all the Lactate sessions.

I'm really not in a position to debate any of this but please feel free to debate it amongst yourselves!
Me, I just do what I'm told!

menoscemo

Ososlo wrote: »

I did those types of sessions back in December. I've been slowly building up to these types of sessions I'll be doing over the summer.

Yeah I know, it's just my gut feeling that these more difficult sessions would be of no additional benefit. You might well nail them but they might take more out of you than needed (see what Tunguska said: I have seen loads of club guys nail tough track sessions and not reproduce it in races).

Hopefully not. Good luck with it anyway.

Edit to say, looking at the above post (posting at the same time) you are going from 5 mins off 3 minutes to 1 mile (7;30ish?) off 90 seconds. Seems like a massive jump to me in both distance and shortened recovery. I just think these 4 x 1 mile off 90s sessions might be a classic 5k session alright but more designed for the sub 5 min milers out there.

Ron Gomall

Ososlo wrote: »

Here's the kind of build up I've been doing for anyone who's interested....

Thursday 19 February
10 x 1 min @ 5k off 2 min rec
Thursday 26 February
5 x 5 mins @ 5mile effort off 3 min jog
Saturday pm 7th March
5 x 2 mins @ 5k w/3min rec
Friday 13th March
6 x 5mins @ 5mile race effort off 3 min jog rec
Monday 16 March
5 x 3mins @ 5k effort off 3 min jog
Friday 3 April
10 mins + 4 x 5 mins off 3 mins
Wednesday 8 April
5 x 4 mins off 3 mins
Wednesday 29 April
4 x 5 mins off 3 mins

Plus several 10x3mins off 30 secs rec and 3x10mins. Then there’s the oft debated 60 min Tempo @ AT and all the Lactate sessions.

I'm really not in a position to debate any of this but please feel free to debate it amongst yourselves!
Me, I just do what I'm told!

Ososlo, I am new to this Forum but reading your log with interest, I bought Pete Pfitzinger's book "Faster road racing" and he has excellent training plans for all levels of runner & was a top level olympian , he now has 30 years experience and coaches athletes to olympic standard. Interestingly his rest period for these type of intervals is 50% of the interval time.
Separately - lot of great info on nutrition, cross training, drills etc (c €20, full of info)
Good luck with your session

hillsiderunner

No pressure Ososlo!

(bet you are wishing it was just a little race on Thursday . Will be interesting to see how it goes though ... )

adrian522

Is this session on the track? You should sell tickets, cover the cost of the track at least!

demfad

menoscemo wrote: »

Edit to say, looking at the above post (posting at the same time) you are going from 5 mins off 3 minutes to 1 mile (7;30ish?) off 90 seconds. Seems like a massive jump to me in both distance and shortened recovery. I just think these 4 x 1 mile off 90s sessions might be a classic 5k session alright but more designed for the sub 5 min milers out there.

When Ososlo was doing her earlier sessions they were part of general training. In general training you are hitting the body with a good variety of sessions to get it ready for the specific training ahead. You are also doing relatively high work volume which gives you the base for the following phase. In other words Ososlo's coach would have designed the general phase with the goal of maximising her capacity to carry out the more specific tougher sessions ahead. In general training there is not a huge difference (modulation) between hard and easy days.

Specific training is different. The sessions now take on more importance. Overall weekly work volume is reduced to allow the sessions to be tougher. Easy days become very easy, and that allows sessions to be harder. There is now a big modulation between session days and easy days.
There will be a jump in the size of sessions between the phases. Your comment on her session progression might only be valid if she was still doing general training IMO.

As for the session itself it's a standard Frank Horwill session. That should mean that the session will be repeated at a later date and at a faster pace. She has already done a 2 mile paced session and a 1 mile paced session in the last couple of weeks.
This particular session (from two weeks ago) indicates that she will nail it:

"6 x 3mins @ 2mile off 2.50 jog/shuffle/walk recoveries. She had a target of 7:05 pace, she managed 7.00 -ish ave. I think (check her log).

I think everyone wants her to succeed (I hope they do anyway).
Looks like she hasn't been persuaded to abort the session. Maybe lets leave the doubtful comments aside till she has it done. They cant help her succeed now anyway, they will only put her off.

Ososlo: Best way to prove any doubters wrong is to go off in the first rep at the exact correct pace (or slightly slower)! Best of luck.

Krusty_Clown

At the end of a hard Pfitzinger and Douglas Advanced marathon plan, with just 10-12 days to go before your final goal race, you were faced with a 3 x 1 mile @V02max (close to 5k) with 3-4 minutes rest. I always looked on this session with great trepidation as for me, it was kind of make or break time. If the numbers were good, I had made progress. If the numbers were bad then I hadn't. All my confidence hung on the result of that session. Thankfully, the numbers were never bad and I went on to make varying levels of gains in each of my marathons.

Since those days, I've gained some wisdom. It's not uncommon for me now to do a training session and not hit the numbers. I've taken a slightly more holistic view of training. It's not the ticking of the second hand on your watch that prepares you your race goal - it''s the running and the breathing, the strides and the upper body movement, the spit and the sweat, the heartbeat and the exhaled breath.

So when you approach your session Ososlo, remember - there is no success or failure, there is only the running and the training. Every workout isn't a trial - it's just another step on the road to progress. Many may debate the merits of the session (and may have the experience and credentials to do so), but at the end of the day, it's just another workout.

TRR_the_turd

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

Krusty_Clown

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

True. It's a pity the focus isn't spread across a wide range of logs, but I reckon this particular topic would be better off on a standalone thread, one level removed from individuals and coaches, so that history doesn't cloud the discussion. I know that everybody means well, but at the same time, when you're committed to a particular session prescribed by your coach, you're going to attempt it regardless. To do otherwise is to admit that you don't have faith in your coach and ultimately means you need to seek alternative arrangements. Were this my log and my session (and I suspect you'd be much the same) you'd go ahead with the session anyway, albeit with a greater weight on your shoulders.

kit3

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

+1 - Really interesting to see the different viewpoints & approaches especially when you know people have tried and tested various approaches & have the results to back that up.

Best of luck with the session Ososlo - as Krusty says it's only another workout - whether you reach your target or not doesn't really matter in the long run

Clearlier

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

True. It's a pity the focus isn't spread across a wide range of logs, but I reckon this particular topic would be better off on a standalone thread, one level removed from individuals and coaches, so that history doesn't cloud the discussion. I know that everybody means well, but at the same time, when you're committed to a particular session prescribed by your coach, you're going to attempt it regardless. To do otherwise is to admit that you don't have faith in your coach and ultimately means you need to seek alternative arrangements. Were this my log and my session (and I suspect you'd be much the same) you'd go ahead with the session anyway, albeit with a greater weight on your shoulders.

I completely agree but I reckon you're mostly worried that there'll be competition for 'log of the year' next time around! :D:P.

Notwork Error

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

I think the thing is that it is hard for most people to give feedback to a poster who is running as long and as experienced as you TRR which leads to some of the fastest logs been discontinued and probably stops other people at your level from starting logs thus going around in a circle again. It's a shame that it works out like that because logs of that quality are of huge value to the forum and your training can always improve no matter what level you're at.

It can be hard for other posters to see from your perspective and share their opinion, or at least they think that. More often than not, a simple suggestion or looking at it from a different perspective can be the most useful feedback you can get and it doesn't take a sub-2:20 runner to spot those things. Just like here, you and tunguska had a debate and many others had different perspectives on intervals and didn't shy away from sharing their thoughts. Everytime, someone shares a perspective, it's food for thought at the very least whether or not the person uses that advice or not and I don't think people understand that it is the very same for you. Any and all input is of value when you want to improve.

I hope you decide to start logging again and fwiw, I'll try and contribute any ideas I can if you do. It would be a shame to see that log collecting dust in the annals of boards history like so many others.

Sorry for the hijack O!

RedRunner

Hi Ososlo,

Hope you nail "The Session" . I'm not going to offer any advice as what do I know anyway ,except on your approach to taking time off work specially for it.

The reason I say that is, well if you nail the session, you'll ask yourself ,was it because I rested up and prepared well by taking the time off work? And if that is what helped you, well you couldnt very well take time off before every session so it'd be a false sense of security if you ask me. Krusty's comment makes a huge amount of sense to me. It will be a good workout regardless if you hit the target or not. I'd say leave taking time off work to days maybe when you have a key race that day.

That was a bit of a rambling sentence but I hope you know what I mean. It's just another session, it's not the be all and end all.

tunguska

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

It kind of just went the way of banter and Penis homour. Although to be fair it was funny

TRR_the_turd

tunguska wrote: »

It kind of just went the way of banter and Penis homour. Although to be fair it was funny

In fairness, it was 20% penis humour and 80% training! Not that my penis is funny mind you

kit3

Post moved - more appropriate to TRR's log

yaboya1

How did it go in the end? Sky Sports News seemed to be concentrating their attention on the Irish Open golf instead :P

Ososlo

yaboya1 wrote: »

How did it go in the end? Sky Sports News seemed to be concentrating their attention on the Irish Open golf instead :P

Log updates are now carried out on a weekly basis however may be subject to change on Bank Holiday weekends .
If you are unhappy with this service then tough shlt

Ps: phoenix park last Monday about 5? North Road?

Murph_D

Ososlo wrote: »

Log updates are now carried out on a weekly basis however may be subject to change on Bank Holiday weekends .
If you are unhappy with this service then tough shlt

Ps: phoenix park last Monday about 5? North Road?

Ooh, sounds like it went well.

yaboya1

Ososlo wrote: »

Ps: phoenix park last Monday about 5? North Road?

Afraid not. Not much running from me lately. I've been following the revolutionary MKDTH training plan (10 minutes a day on a dublinbike )

Ososlo

yaboya1 wrote: »

Afraid not. Not much running from me lately. I've been following the revolutionary MKDTH training plan (10 minutes a day on a dublinbike )

Oh crap, so I was hollering 'yaboya yaboya' out the car window to some random dude whilst beeping the horn
You got a doppelganger out there!

yaboya1

Ososlo wrote: »

Oh crap, so I was hollering 'yaboya yaboya' out the car window to some random dude whilst beeping the horn
You got a doppelganger out there!

Poor b*st*rd! :pac:

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

Oh crap, so I was hollering 'yaboya yaboya' out the car window to some random dude whilst beeping the horn
You got a doppelganger out there!

glad it wasn't TRR you thought you saw.....:D:D

Greenmachine

Loving the log. Awesome level of detail. Appreciate all your comment so far on my log.

Ososlo

Ah! The 2,001st post on this log! Here's to the next 2000! And almost 1,000 miles run for the year!
Numbers numbers... it's all about the numbers...

Just to say that there are some really decent sods around this part. You know who you are. Thanks again It's nice how some people can see Ososlo as a separate entity unto herself.

Enjoyed the debate about the session over the week also but it probably wasn't great timing as it did put negative thoughts in my head but then again it also gave me a bit of extra motivation so it hopefully balanced itself out.
Good debate and some great comments above so thanks to all who contributed.

Monday 25 May
6x(5 mins [10k effort]– 1 min jog – 1 min [5k-3k effort])
3 min jog between sets

Target 7:45 & 7:20ish

5 mins: 7:46 1 min: 7:19
5 mins: 7:42 1 min: 7:21
5 mins: 7:45 1 min: 7:32
5 mins: 7:43 1 min: 7:18
5 mins: 7:39 1 min: 7:12
5 mins: 7:41 1 min: 7:21

Loved this! Really did. Didn't really start feeling it badly until the last one. The recoveries were loads to fully get breath back and feel fresh enough to go again. Body felt strong. Legs felt good. Looked forward to starting each rep except towards the end when I was feeling it alright but really pleased to hit my targets! It was tough but in a manageable way. Great old session.
I did feel wiped on the couch that night though so it was definitely a bit of a challenge!
10.11 miles total @ 9:20 avg pace

Tuesday 26 May
40 mins recovery/sail's pace
Legs felt great but lungs a bit laboured even at recovery effort. Sleeping tablet Monday night didn't help really and made me feel a little sluggish. Better than being awake all fcuking night!
10:20 avg pace

Wednesday 27 May
Rest
Bloody damn sleep (sick of talking about it but I'm sure you're even more sick about listening to it if you read this tripe!). Disaster. It was cruel getting out of bed at 7:45am as I'd only gotten to sleep about 6. 'Nuff said... no point in running today. I was in a maze or a daze or a haze most of the day and probably shouldn't have been working let alone driving in that state.

Thursday 28 May
4 x 1 Mile @ 5k: Attempt 1

Was ordered to take the session away from the track and onto the road instead to trick the paparazzi to ease the pressure a bit.

Ridiculous wind on the warm up so only managed a half-arsed attempt at some strides and drills. Wasn't feeling the love if I'm honest.
Mile 1: 7:28. Was feeling the effort alright, but not too bad at this stage. Was happy to go again after the 90 sec recovery.

Half way into mile 2 I got a severe stitch and was losing pace rapidly so cut session short and ran the rest of the run easy. It wasn't me wussing out, it was just pointless continuing. The stitch continued on for most of the rest of the run so it wasn't very pleasant to be honest. Might have eaten a tad too close to the run and started out a bit too hard into the wind. I have a big bruise on the area where the stitch was from digging my fingers into it! Just ran the remainder of the run easy to turn it into my weekend longish run.
10+ miles total

Friday 29 May
Couldn't run. No way. Had a disaster of a day in work trying to stay awake after yet another sleepless night. If I didn't have to spend 8 hours in work I would have managed a little jaunt but by the time I got home I was good for absolutely sweet fcuk all.

So 2 days off running this week due to insomnia. Not happy about letting it control me like this but had absolutely no fight in me today

Saturday 30 May
4 x 1 mile @ 5k off 90 sec rec:eek: (Attempt 2!)
Current 5k pb pace from 4 weeks ago- 7:43
Today's splits:
Mile 1: 7:34
Mile 2: 7:35
Mile 3. 7:31
Mile 4. 7:32

I knew if I mentioned to the boss that I was going to attempt this again today I'd be told not to do it as I'm supposed to leave at least 2 days recovery running between each session during this phase of 5k training so I said nothing and just did it. I don't rebel much but the wind is going to be crap for the foreseeable future so today was the best day weather and life-wise so I wanted to take advantage.
I had done the 10 mile run on Thursday with 1.5 mile at 5k race pace (aborted session) so yes it wasn't ideal to do it today but sometimes needs must... I was however ready to abandon ship if I felt any twinges in the legs or they didn't feel well enough recovered etc.

So, onto the session. Legs felt great! Yay! SO happy! Delighted to get stuck into business. The wind was coming at me from side but it didn't really hinder, nor did it help. On the first two reps the pace felt reasonable and the recoveries were ok-ish. Yeah I would have loved 3 minutes recovery but what I was granted was just about manageable. The third rep was the hardest even though it's slightly faster. I wasn't focused too closely at the watch as it was wrecking my head so once I got to target-ish pace on a rep I just tried to lock into the right effort but glanced at it now and again to ensure I was working hard enough. Krusty's words of wisdom about the session being all about the effort and the spittle and the sweat and the heartbeats etc, and not about the exact numbers on the watch stuck in my head and I focused on that instead.
From the second half of the third rep to the end, it was all about just hanging on for dear life and waiting for that beloved beep from the watch! I just bargained with myself to just make it as far as the next lampost, then the next one and so on until I tricked myself into doing the full rep. The recovery after the 3rd rep was cruel though. I was on my knees. Well not quite but I would have liked to have been on my knees:)
This 3rd recovery felt more like a 20 seconds and not 90. I relished each precious second of reprieve from the hurt and sucked in as much air as possible whilst my body was being bathed by a magically cooling breeze. The last rep was SO fcuking hard but as I knew it would all be over soon so I was able to maintain a decent effort but in my head I was making plans to ditch the big bad devil-man in Kerry as my coach and to beg one of the guys from here instead who are MUCH more reasonable with their lovely long recoveries to help me instead:)

No stitches from start to finish so am absolutely delighted about that. What amazed me most about this session was how quickly I recovered. Not between reps but at the end of the session. I thought I'd have to lie down on the ground for an hour afterwards, but within a few minutes I was merrily running 9:30 min/miles back to the car. Legs and body felt really strong throughout and I felt I had a good controlled stride and strong upright posture from warm up to cool down.

So lots of time was spent in the Pain Cave today but I'm happy with how I dealt with it- in a controlled and relaxed manner. I accepted the pain and let it in. I didn't battle it. I even tried to eek out a smile when it got really bad to help me relax.
The whole experience toughened me up big time It was good for me to practice this in a situation which was not a race as it didn't really matter if I blew up but luckily I didn't.

Regarding the paces of the reps, I'm very pleased and pretty amazed with the consistency. I might have liked them to be a tad quicker and I'd love to have been able to do the last one a bit faster than the rest but I gave it the absolute best effort I could on the day. The paces do show decent improvement since the last race 4 weeks ago which will hopefully translate into another race pb next month. With a good taper and better sleep during the week I feel confident of improvements.
9+ miles total

Sunday 31 May
40 min recovery
Very pleasurable little jog. Legs felt fantastic and I really had to stop them from taking off. Wonderful sleep last night too! Life is good! Felt good enough to do a session again today. Funny how I almost forget today how bad the pain was during that session yesterday and can't wait to do it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9:42 avg pace

38 miles weekly total (only 5 days running. Lowest in months!!!)

AIS and Lunge Matrix routine before every run. Myrtl after Monday, Thursday and Saturday sessions. Drills and strides before each session. Foam rolling here and there throughout the week but nothing is really hurting when I'm rolling so I'm not sure if I need to bother much.

990 miles yearly total