Manchester United vs Spurs 5.30

rob316

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Utd will still finish in the Top 4

Depends on there transfer window that current team won't. Teams are rocking up to old trafford no longer beaten before the whistle. Liverpool, everton and spurs will turn that 4th spot into a serious dog fight but with uniteds experience I wouldnt bet against them.

sawfish

rob316 wrote: »

Ferguson left ye in bad shape.

Maybe he knew and that`s why he left :pac:

At least he left them as champions, eases the pressure from not winning the league this year (unless we buy a world class player this January and go on a ridiculously good run of form).

Today was a bad day - I was hoping United would win and one or two from Arsenal, City, Chelsea and Liverpool would drop points (instead they all go and win) - then the newspapers would have been saying that United are on a serious comeback!

GTR63

bad2dabone wrote: »

dunno about that mate. there are 4 teams going for it, everton, spurs, liverpool and you guys. and you guys are in the most indifferent form at the moment. Granted you've got RvP to come back in, but it may be too late.

Nobody fears united anymore. Not even Howard Webb.

I can see Arsenal being dragged back into it too, just cause City & Chelsea noticeably have got the strongest squads in the league.

miralize

RVP matters f**k all if the service to his position doesn't change.

cathalio11

miralize wrote: »

RVP matters f**k all if the service to his position doesn't change.

I'd have to disagree. Van Persie has the ability to make something out of nothing, in my opinion.

miralize

cathalio11 wrote: »

I'd have to disagree. Van Persie has the ability to make something out of nothing, in my opinion.

Every single game? He might do that for a few games sporadically, but you cant rely on him to do everything. Things need to change for United, not just the players but the system.

cathalio11

miralize wrote: »

Every single game? He might do that for a few games sporadically, but you cant rely on him to do everything. Things need to change for United, not just the players but the system.

I understand but they were so reliant on Van Persie last season. If you take the first 19 games of last season, I'd say United would have been 8-12 points worse off without Van Persie.

Once again in a hypothetical scenario, you put 4-8 points on United's points now if Van Persie was around, and things look a lot better.

We'll never know for sure but I do believe that Van Persie is worth those important extra points.

bad2dabone

GTR63 wrote: »

I can see Arsenal being dragged back into it too, just cause City & Chelsea noticeably have got the strongest squads in the league.

its possible, but we're very very consistent the past 12 months, and i believe we can survive a blip. I don't think we'll win the league, but i'd fancy us as nailed on for a CL spot.

If we don't get one i'd be prepared to eat a whole humble pie.

I'm not saying united are not gonna get top 4, i think they will probably get it thanks to RVP/Rooney. they sure will have to sort out their performances to get it though, as this year the competition is harder and their performances are the weakest i can recall from a utd side.

beno619

Oregano_State wrote: »

By starting Anderson and Zaha I presume?

Goway out of that, today wasn't a day for experimenting. Anderson has been useless any time he's played recently, and he's a defensive liability as his positioning is terrible.

The reason we have underperformed this season is that Carrick has been out of form/injured.

Evra, Smalling and Valencia cost us the goals today. I would prefer not to see Valencia in the starting team, but I really don't think having Ashley Young or Zaha on instead of him would have made a huge difference. Rafael was really missed today, and Evra was badly exposed.

I don't know what else Moyes could have done, he went balls out to win the game and it almost payed off. Hernandez' flick from Januzaz' ball across the box was very close to going in, and Lloris made a number of good saves. If a couple of the chances we had, had went in, people would be praising Moyes for making the changes he did.

Rooney played some great stuff from deep, even though we were far too reliant on Januzaj to create openings.

The team needs investment, that is clear. Tactics and selection were not the problem today. Defensive incompetency and bad decision-making were.

Thats just wrong.

Sure Hull and Norwich were also not times for experimenting.

If you think the manager cant be blamed for that awful performance then im not sure what to say. Its his job to get players playing and to pick the right team for the occasion.

Smalling should not have been at RB and neither should Valencia. We finished the game with no CM if that doesn't make you question how we were set up from the get go I don't know what will.

Rooney did not play well and was clearly unfit. He was also too deep I cant remember seeing him and Welbz link up once in the match.

If anyone still has issues with giving other squad members a run out then again there's not much more to be said.

Francie Barrett

sawfish wrote: »

Maybe he knew and that`s why he left :pac:

Going by his book, it sounds like Ferguson's own legacy was more important than what he left behind at the club....

monkey9

Looking at highlights there on MOTD, I tell you what. Both penalty claims by Wellbeck and Young could well have been given and booking yer man for diving when he was clearly fouled is more Webb nonsense.

I can't believe he got a game today after his performance at Stamford Bridge on Sunday.

donfers

monkey9 wrote: »

Looking at highlights there on MOTD, I tell you what. Both penalty claims by Wellbeck and Young could well have been given and booking yer man for diving when he was clearly fouled is more Webb nonsense.

I can't believe he got a game today after his performance at Stamford Bridge on Sunday.

precisely - why wasn't webb demoted to a lower league for a week or told to take the week off? Do high profiel refs not get the chop then?

2 games in a row now, he has failed to blow his whistle on several occassions when he should have for red cards and penalties yet he gets away with it

as graham poll suggested, he wants to go to the world cup and so is doing everything to avoid controversy; however by not blowing his whistle for blatant fouls/penalties he is also causing controversy - just smacks of a cowardly ref motivated by self-interest rather than the laws of the game

liverpool fans have been saying it for years - webb is a poor referee, he proves that time and time again, and in the last two games alone has made 8 or 9 potentially game-changing errors

will he be demoted? probably not

will people still proclaim the myth that he is the best ref around? probably

the truth and media spin are growing ever distant and chancers and frauds are doing well out of the game, expect nothing to be done

The_Kew_Tour

Welbeck one was a dive.

Young Peno looked clear as hell. Not sure what Owen was saying by thinking it was not.

Spurs were better team. They deserved the win(and bit of luck)

davycc

monkey9 wrote: »

Looking at highlights there on MOTD, I tell you what. Both penalty claims by Wellbeck and Young could well have been given and booking yer man for diving when he was clearly fouled is more Webb nonsense.

I can't believe he got a game today after his performance at Stamford Bridge on Sunday.

The wellbeck was a blatant dive even though there was a tiny bit of contact from Chirices but nowhere near to cause him to fall over so extremely..

On the Young-Lloris incident it was just an accidental coming together AFTER Young had gotten his shot away..never a peno for me sorry..


I was glad young and DiveUtd got a tiny bit of karma back today after reaping so many unjust penos from diving in the last few yrs:D

rob316

Webb is poor but its a lesson to young and januzaj not to throw yourself on the floor as the real decisions won't go your way when they happen.

davycc

The part just before halftime where it looked like Smalling maybe handled it for a peno to Spurs wasnt shown on MOTD ..

Looked a handball on my stream but I could do with a slow mo replay to be sure either way.

just as well it didnt cost us in terms of the result:)

The_Kew_Tour

hit his chest.

davycc

looked like half arm and half shoulder but I only seen it live need a reply to be 100%.

water under the bridge now sure.

Mr.Micro

rob316 wrote: »

Webb is poor but its a lesson to young and januzaj not to throw yourself on the floor as the real decisions won't go your way when they happen.

Young for sure has a reputation for diving, Januzaj is getting one. Welbeck known to dive on occasion with a trailing leg. I think that is what went against them today, as in Webb was not going to buy it.

The_Kew_Tour

davycc wrote: »

On the Young-Lloris incident it was just an accidental coming together AFTER Young had gotten his shot away..never a peno for me sorry..

Dermot Gallagher and Parlour this morning said it was clear Peno. Having seen it again it was as clear as day.

Like I said already though we did not Deserve it.

But few Spurs fans been little biased ;-)

SuprSi

I'm a Spurs fan and thought it was a definite peno. As it happened I was watching Webb waiting for him to blow the whistle and couldn't believe it when play continued. I wonder if it had been anyone else except Young would it have been awarded?

Julez

SuprSi wrote: »

I wonder if it had been anyone else except YoungWebb would it have been awarded?

Webb is a terrible ref and even worse when it comes to United because he's afraid of being considered biased. I swear he only gets picked 'cause he's got the Mitchell brothers look going on.

gosplan

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Dermot Gallagher and Parlour this morning said it was clear Peno. Having seen it again it was as clear as day.

Like I said already though we did not Deserve it.

But few Spurs fans been little biased ;-)

You gotta feel for the ref a bit though. It's not easy to make instant decisions and get them right.

A few weeks ago a big team (Chelsea) were about to lose their home record and the ref bought a blatant dive. It's shocking to deny smaller teams victories through errors like that.

Then again it's shocking to deny teams fair penalties as well.

However, Young does not help his own cause.


Given the ball was gone is it a penno? My guess would be yeah but then what about the situation where a forward us routinely cleaned out by a defender just after getting the shot off?

The_Kew_Tour

gosplan wrote: »

You gotta feel for the ref a bit though. It's not easy to make instant decisions and get them right.

A few weeks ago a big team (Chelsea) were about to lose their home record and the ref bought a blatant dive. It's shocking to deny smaller teams victories through errors like that.

Then again it's shocking to deny teams fair penalties as well.

However, Young does not help his own cause.


Given the ball was gone is it a penno? My guess would be yeah but then what about the situation where a forward us routinely cleaned out by a defender just after getting the shot off?

Yes tbf Young has been his own worst enemy. Was bound to come back.

Even when ball was gone its still Peno. Just have see Suarez off ball Peno claims at weekend.

Webb is just awful. This man was ref in world cup final. Nuts

Mars Bar

It took two or three replays before BT found the perfect angle and it did hit his chest. Was sure it was a handball myself. Brilliant call from Webb in fairness.

smileyj1987

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Yes tbf Young has been his own worst enemy. Was bound to come back.

Even when ball was gone its still Peno. Just have see Suarez off ball Peno claims at weekend.

Webb is just awful. This man was ref in world cup final. Nuts

If the referee is doing their job properly then it's a a case of reputation shouldn't have a bearing on a decision . After all the referee is supposed to be neutral . He is on the pitch to apply the laws of the game and well Webb has made a lot of howlers over the last few weeks . He needs a week or two in the championship at least .

SuprSi

smileyj1987 wrote: »

If the referee is doing their job properly then it's a a case of reputation shouldn't have a bearing on a decision . After all the referee is supposed to be neutral . He is on the pitch to apply the laws of the game and well Webb has made a lot of howlers over the last few weeks . He needs a week or two in the championship at least .

But that's the same as saying the player should be doing his job properly and not trying to con the referee into making a bad decision. Of course they're going to be biased against players who continually dive, like Young. We all saw it with Bale as well. Players get reputations which result in referee's singling them out. If the player doesn't cheat, this doesn't happen.

PhlegmyMoses

I'm not going to complain about penalties as Young has won his fair share of dubious ones, but this argument that refs would have it in their mind that a player has a certain reputation doesn't sit well with me. It's an acknowledgement of incompetence on their own part.

They should call it as they see it, not constantly worried that they may be getting conned. The Welbeck penalty claim could have gone either way. No complaints there. The Young incident was clear as day. If his reputation preceded him in such a clear cut incident, like Suarez last week, then that's a failing on the ref's part, not Young's. It's going too far the other side.

SuprSi

I dunno, IMO if a player constantly cheats, he can't complain when some more obvious decisions go against him. Nobody likes a cheat - I hated when Bale tumbled so easily and on the last day of last season he was clearly fouled in the box in the first half but wasn't awarded a penalty, which could have had massive implications in the 4th place chase.

There's no doubt it was a penalty but if Young wasn't a notorious diver it may have been awarded. Swings & roundabouts...

PhlegmyMoses

SuprSi wrote: »

I dunno, IMO if a player constantly cheats, he can't complain when some more obvious decisions go against him. Nobody likes a cheat - I hated when Bale tumbled so easily and on the last day of last season he was clearly fouled in the box in the first half but wasn't awarded a penalty, which could have had massive implications in the 4th place chase.

There's no doubt it was a penalty but if Young wasn't a notorious diver it may have been awarded. Swings & roundabouts...

Swings and roundabouts indeed. We've benefitted from incorrect decisions many times. I just hope it's the ref not seeing it, rather than denying giving clear cut because of pre - conceived ideas.

Agueroooo

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts indeed. We've benefitted from incorrect decisions many times. I just hope it's the ref not seeing it, rather than denying giving clear cut because of pre - conceived ideas.

now when have you ever seen Howard Webb do something like that:rolleyes:

Nalz

keano_afc wrote: »

Appalling amount of cheating by United. For a manager that supposedly doesn't like diving, his players seem to have no problem with it.

Welbeck dived.

Who else?

Adnan did not. Clear foul.
Young did not. Clear penalty.

I genuinely didn't see or remember any other dives. Apols if there was an obvious one other than Welbecks

ebbsy

rob316 wrote: »

Webb is poor but its a lesson to young and januzaj not to throw yourself on the floor as the real decisions won't go your way when they happen.

+1

"All the lies you told me"

Nalz

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Young Peno looked clear as hell. Not sure what Owen was saying by thinking it was not.

Le Saux on ESPN USA was the same. "good decision from the ref there, momentum followed the keeper through when the ball was gone, well played Webb" or something to that effect.

The co commentator was like "eh would that not be a red card if it was an outfield player in the middle of the park"

Le Saux's reply "probably yeah"